::REVIEW:: 302 Skincare Part 2: More Questions and Feedback
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free skin care · Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:18 am

tarapaca wrote:

Has anybody else had problems with mold growing on their ointment? I bought a large jar slightly over a month ago. I hadn't used it for two weeks, but when I opened the jar today there are black spots all over the surface. I kept it in my home office, not my bathroom so there shouldn't have been any humidity issues.

Definitely call for a replacement, I think there was a problem with a certain batch. I've had mine for months and there's no mold.

free skin care · Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:16 pm

It seems they're still having problems with the mold growth in ointment. Mine was drop shipped from 302 on September 9, so presumably from a later batch than the one that had the previous issues. Anyway, I'll see what the folks at 302 have to say about it all.

free skin care · Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:06 pm

bethany wrote:

I think Boski and Huber were personally offended after contributing a bunch of their time to this thread, and washed their hands of EDS. Yes, it would have been nice it they replied, but why bother when they already felt they were being attacked....I don't blame them in the least. We also lost Low in the process, and she definitely wasn't part of any scam...she was just a happy user who appears to have become tired of the irrelevant conversation.

I can personally say that 302 is one of my top 3 favorite skin care lines...my skin definitely looked fabulous when I was on it for 5 months. However, I did not see any improvement in my hyperpigmentation at all, thus my change to something else. But I still use the F&BB and the recovery minerals.

That said, I always recommend 302 to people with sensitive or acne prone skin and will continue to do so. I think they are great products...no matter who owns them, where they went to school, and what studies they have done but not published. As Scally used to say "The proof is in the pudding" and my pudding looked darn good while on 302. Very Happy

But please don't knock it until you try it, don't hold manufacturers to different standards, and don't dismiss others who the products do work for. YMMV applies to all lines...despite the studies and the degrees!

Which products from the 302 line did you try for hyperpigmentation? Hyperpigmentation is my main reason for wanting to try 302, but this makes me a bit less hopeful. What is the nature of your hyperpigmentation?

free skin care · Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:55 pm

what are you using now for your hyperpigmentation bethany?

i have similar concerns in terms of some pigmentation around mouth and forehead area.
302 has not made it worse but i have yet to see an improvement i.e. getting rid of this problem

i been using the cleanser, vit c serum and 302 serum, calming mist occasionaly rather than a moisturizer

however i also use recovery plus when im experiecing dryness

free skin care · Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:41 pm

Boski and just about everyone else walked away from this forum because of the nasty, troublemaking few. Boski and others have spent TONS of TIME trying to HELP people and all they got was distrust and disrespect for their efforts. I'd do EXACTLY the same.

No one created this fiasco except the people who posted with venom. So now it all seems strange to you? Fishy? Gee, why don't you answer my questions even though I think you're a scam? For the life of me, I can not figure out what is wrong with those posters who don't "get it."

The definition of scam means to cheat or swindle. It means a fraudulent act or scheme. If you mean that 302 skincare is a "scam" because it doesn't work for you, then so is every other skincare line in the world including the 85 bazillion sold at EDS. Or just use the correct words - it doesn't work for you.

If you mean that Dr. Huber isn't available to answer your questions, then please give Laura Mercier, Bobbi Brown, Estee Lauder or any other "creator" of a line a ringy-dingy. And let me know when they answer you with a phone call.

I'm starting to believe that ignorance IS bliss for those afflicted but they are dangerous to everyone else. That's why I stay far away from their drama.

Lexy

free skin care · Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:51 pm

I have been using 302 for over six months now and I totally love it. I think it is a wonderful line, it makes my skin glow in a way that it never has and I feel that it works on a deep level. I am very grateful that Boski started this thread, was able to share her knowledge for as long as she did, and am so glad that I managed to stumble across it in the first place!

Unfortunately there has been a lot of negativity on this thread recently, and 302 has had a bit of a hard time on other boards in the past. It seems that this is mostly because posters like faeiredust et al. seem to be unable to comprehend anything slightly off current mainstream thinking and feel that it is their right to make fun of others who are willing to try something new.

Very early on in the original thread, Boski mentioned that Shayna on the Spectacular Skin forum (who also loved 302 and seemed to have discovered the product around the same time as Boski) had a lot of knowledge and a deep understanding of the mechanics of why 302 worked for some better than others.
Some of this info might be useful for others, to quote her:
'I think that the drops are best used for skins that are lacking proper linoleic acid metabolism, such as acneic, and several other dermatosis types. As far as antiaging for remodelling collagen I think that it is a weak collagen inducer but gives a strong protein synthesis. This is a rare find in skin products and that is what makes it a unique active. [...] increased protein synthesis (not just fibroblast stimulation) is needed for healthy skin repair. I do think any topical can become ineffective as the skin's self defense mechanisms continue to create enzymes to breakdown these actives and chemicals. Just prior to a plateau in skin response I switch products or decrease the 302 drops to allow cells to adapt.'

She also makes a small point about the difference between published studies and knowledge in this post, a point that others seem to keep forgetting (not just on this thread, but on EDS in general at the moment):
http://spectacularskin.com/forum/forum_entry.php?id=3273

As has been stated over and over, skincare is an individual matter. Let others decide what is appropriate for themselves.

free skin care · Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:01 am

I've been totally put off by negative comments too, which totally killed the morale of the thread. Am *very* disappointed as I loved visiting the thread Sad

I've been using 302 since March and I'm very happy with it, particularly 302 drops and the cleansers. Gave my skin a finer texture, and controlled milia to a certain extent. It also thickened my skin considerably which was what I was looking for primarily.

Still suffering breakouts but I strongly believe these are from internal imbalances anyway - I am going through a very stressful period at the moment..but I much prefer thicker skin with some acne than thinned skin without acne, but with milia. Ironically, the acne on thicker skin looks better than thinned plastic looking skin with milia but without acne.

My two cents.

free skin care · Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:01 am

HeavenLeigh, it seems those who have "issues" (and I'm not talking skincare here) continue to post to upset the morale of the thread.

So why are we allowing the dissenters to ruin the thread? There are more than enough satisifed customers, who are NORMAL, to keep the thread going. I have to admit, without Boski, Lowbrow and a few others, it makes it hard to ask questions for support. But we can still play! And those that don't belong in this "sandbox" will have to go elsewhere to throw sand.

I've used 302 exclusively for 10 months now. I'm still a "newbie" in my book. I can't say enough good things about this line! It isn't easy to adjust and continually adjust; it didn't work miracles but it did some VERY NICE things for my skin: reduced pore size tremendously, continues to even skin tone so much so that I feel confident without makeup. I rarely have a clogged pore or three; the rosacea butterfly is less pink and still a work in progress. The idea that you use LESS of these products as your skin improves over the years is amazing to me. You start slow, build up, and then slow down forever.

free skin care · Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:58 am

I was quite interested in the 302 line - never thought the products were a "scam" and still don't.

However, once I became aware of avocatin 302 and Richard Huber's involvement with MLM companies and network marketing, I lost interest as it's not my practice to buy products sold in this manner. I realise many people have no problem with MLM, but I personally prefer to buy my skincare through more conventional retailing methods.

I'm glad these products work so well for many, and they do sound interesting, as I love avocado oil. Maybe I'll try in future, but the MLM issue makes them a no-go for me at the moment.

Guess I'll be sticking with my plain old boring avocado oil for the time being.

free skin care · Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:18 am

Hhmmmm, MLM is the same as a pyramid, right? I'm not sure where you found info to come to that conclusion. It is nothing like an Avon or Mary Kaye or Tupperware and the million other pyramid, respected companies out there.

free skin care · Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:42 am

The 302 products might not be a scam per se, but I definitely think that the marketing and presentation of the products on this forum are a scam.

I believe the 302 products are neither better nor worse than other organic/natural brands such as Dr Hauschka, Weleda and Suki etc. As for the "non-acid approach", it's nothing special about that. Almost all of the organic/natural products on the market are non-acid.

As I see it, the big problem with the 302 products is all the claims, f. ex. the claim that 302 products are capable of penetrating deep into the dermis to produce collagen in order to fill in acne scars. That would be a sensation! If that really was the case, this line would be widely popular (not only on EDS forum) and embraced by dermatologists. It's not like that. 302 products are only sold at some spas and from estheticians, mostly in California, if I remember correctly.

Most ingredients in skin care products are actually just sitting on the skin's surface (or only penetrate the skin's upper layers), making skin soft and moisturized - and that 's it. There is no evidence that the avocatin in the 302 products is capable of renewing skin on a deeper level, either, but I don't doubt that it can make skin feel smooth and soft.

I do understand that boski and "Dr" Huber stopped posting on this forum. Huber was presented as "a doctor" and "the founder of 302Skincare" in boski's posts. Now it turns out he is not a doctor and not the founder of the skin care line.

appletini, I did not know that "Dr" Huber was involved with network marketing. That makes me even more skeptical to him and his motives.

And lastly, I have not seen any of the 302Skincare critics posting negative comments about the users of this skincare line. That would be too stupid. We are grown-ups.

free skin care · Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:09 am

Lexy & septembergirl - see my previous post on page 12 of this thread.

As I said, MLM is not a problem for many people, it's simply my own personal preference not to buy products sold in this manner.

I only raised this issue as I thought it relevant to the discussion, and no-one else seemed to have dug up the info on google that i found.

Definitely not trying to create conflict. It's not my style, as those EDS members who have had the misfortune of reading my silly posts on .. errrr .. cute policemen in tight uniforms and the like would confirm Laughing

Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:23 am

enjoy the thread and have learned alot about
skin care here from all. I'm still not sure
if Boski and Dr. Huber are actual CIA operatives,
or whether Colonel Sanders of KFC is a real
colonel or not???

hopefully I can learn more from others in the
future about 302 and skincare here. I don't
post much here because skincare is not in my
arena. I have learned soooo much here though
and I appreciate the sharing of others more
knowledgable than myself.

free skin care · Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:57 am

Appletini, that's right. I read your post before and dismissed it since I don't care about that stuff. But if you're concerned that patents are sold or rearranged or expire, there's a whole world of products out there that do exactly that. That's how generic drugs are made. It's how copycat drugs are made.

free skin care · Sun Oct 18, 2009 11:47 am

Some folks here post vast monologues as fact and we need to remember it is just their opinion, and usually the opinion of someone who has never bought a single 302 product.

No sooner did I post that it would be nice to continue a USER thread to answer questions and support each other, folks with "opinions" show up immediately and make statements that are NOT facts but opinion, or in other words, fiction.

302 Skincare has done wonderful things for many of us. What other skincare line has you using LESS product over time rather than more? Doesn't sound like a company that is trying to take my money and run. So if you don't like the line even though you've never used it, you don't like how the company is managed, then I suggest you find something that pleases you.

If you are a 302 user and the products do or don't work for you, then this is the thread to discuss it.

free skin care · Sun Oct 18, 2009 2:10 pm

Lexyg wrote:

Some folks here post vast monologues as fact and we need to remember it is just their opinion, and usually the opinion of someone who has never bought a single 302 product.

If people haven't used the product, I really don't even bother to read the opinions...it's no different than reading other overblown marketing materials, except they are just negative marketers with some kind of agenda who can't seem to move on.

Just ignore them...replying is just worthless negative energy that could be better used in another manner. Smile

free skin care · Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:21 pm

bethany wrote:

Lexyg wrote:

Some folks here post vast monologues as fact and we need to remember it is just their opinion, and usually the opinion of someone who has never bought a single 302 product.

If people haven't used the product, I really don't even bother to read the opinions...it's no different than reading other overblown marketing materials, except they are just negative marketers with some kind of agenda who can't seem to move on.

Just ignore them...replying is just worthless negative energy that could be better used in another manner. Smile

If it's me you are referring to, I used 302Skincare Eye Serum for 7 months last year because the avocatin in it was supposed to thicken the thin under eye skin. I saw no change. Smile

free skin care · Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:01 pm

bethany wrote:

If people haven't used the product, I really don't even bother to read the opinions...it's no different than reading other overblown marketing materials, except they are just negative marketers with some kind of agenda who can't seem to move on.

Just ignore them...replying is just worthless negative energy that could be better used in another manner. Smile

That's like trying to ignore a gnat that keeps circling. Laughing

I belong to another forum that has a fabulous feature on it. It's called IGNORE. You can make a list and every post made by what you consider bothersome people never sees the light of day on your computer. I've never used it there but it would be a welcome feature here.

free skin care · Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:46 pm

Lexyg wrote:

bethany wrote:

If people haven't used the product, I really don't even bother to read the opinions...it's no different than reading other overblown marketing materials, except they are just negative marketers with some kind of agenda who can't seem to move on.

Just ignore them...replying is just worthless negative energy that could be better used in another manner. Smile

That's like trying to ignore a gnat that keeps circling. Laughing

I belong to another forum that has a fabulous feature on it. It's called IGNORE. You can make a list and every post made by what you consider bothersome people never sees the light of day on your computer. I've never used it there but it would be a welcome feature here.

It would indeed be a welcome addition...maybe one day EDS will implement it if enough of us ask.

free skin care · Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:12 pm

HAHAHA! Stevie, you crack me up! Thanks for lightening things up!

Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:25 pm

Hm... this is a Product Review Forum, it seems a few of us insist of hijacking this thread. I would like to read users' expericence of using the products, both positive and negative outcomes.
Start another thread at Skincare forum or EDS lounge if the science behind 302 or Dr Huber is your interest. I think their views have been expressed repeatedly and yes... we noted them. Make me wonder why they still following this thread.

Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:48 pm

So, I'm new to 302 and it's just my luck that the very people who give some of the most informative answers and info have left. sigh.

I think it's unfortunate Dr. Huber's credentials keep getting questioned. It's humiliating. It's alarming too as one of the sites cited by a vocal critic, http://www.scan3d4d.com/about.html ,clearly states "Dr. Richard Huber Phd, creator of the 302 Skin Care line". The site is for an ultrasound imaging service and even recommends 302skincare for pregnant women. And yet there's still doubt that Huber's a doctor?

I'm still adjusting to the products and am seeing random spots w/ tiny whiteheads popping up here and there. The only 302 product I use everyday is the Recovery Minerals. Should I have used this gradually at the start? I'm wondering if it's the cause of the spots.

I use the other 302 products (sensitive cleanser, c boost, acne serum - about once/week now; face and body bar, 302 drops - not yet started) sparingly. Thanks for any advice.

free skin care · Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:21 pm

Coconut wrote:

bethany wrote:

I can personally say that 302 is one of my top 3 favorite skin care lines...my skin definitely looked fabulous when I was on it for 5 months. However, I did not see any improvement in my hyperpigmentation at all, thus my change to something else. But I still use the F&BB and the recovery minerals.

Which products from the 302 line did you try for hyperpigmentation? Hyperpigmentation is my main reason for wanting to try 302, but this makes me a bit less hopeful. What is the nature of your hyperpigmentation?

simran wrote:

what are you using now for your hyperpigmentation bethany?

i have similar concerns in terms of some pigmentation around mouth and forehead area.
302 has not made it worse but i have yet to see an improvement i.e. getting rid of this problem

My hyperpigmentation is a diffuse sprinkling of freckle-type spots on my cheeks and lower jawline. It is most likely due to sun exposure from growing up in FL, plus hormonal changes since staying out of sun for 20 years hasn't eliminated it. I used the 302 Lightening Drops/Serum, the 302 Drops, and the A Boost for 5+ months but saw no change (though the rest of my skin looked great)...I was told that it could take 6-12 months to see a change on 302.

I saw real results with Vivite Vibrance within 2 months, though it made my fair skin very pink. I then tried Nia24 and did see some slight lightening (and no redness), but I then slacked off on skincare and did NOTHING to my skin all summer. Shock

Now I am going back to using the Nia24 line (a patented niacin formulation that is great for the skin barrier and hyperpigmentation) and will be alternating it with some stronger Young Pharmaceutical anti-aging products with Vit A and Vit C. (YP products are a VERY, VERY close approximation of the ZO products, but are a fraction of the cost. They are available under various private label names)

To keep this thread on track, please PM me if anyone has questions about any of the above non-302 products.

free skin care · Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:18 am

neondaze wrote:

Very early on in the original thread, Boski mentioned that Shayna on the Spectacular Skin forum (who also loved 302 and seemed to have discovered the product around the same time as Boski) had a lot of knowledge and a deep understanding of the mechanics of why 302 worked for some better than others.
Some of this info might be useful for others, to quote her:
'I think that the drops are best used for skins that are lacking proper linoleic acid metabolism, such as acneic, and several other dermatosis types. As far as antiaging for remodelling collagen I think that it is a weak collagen inducer but gives a strong protein synthesis. This is a rare find in skin products and that is what makes it a unique active. [...] increased protein synthesis (not just fibroblast stimulation) is needed for healthy skin repair.

Shayna was indeed a very wise woman. She knew her stuff and recommended things a few years before it became "popular". I forgot about her post regarding 302/remodelling collagen. I know she believed in Retin A and thought 302 and Retin A would be a good combo. She did not follow the strict 302 protocol and used other products along with 302 (Retin A, L-ascorbic acid, etc.) I am very curious now about the protein synthesis, and definitely want to try to find out more about that. Thanks for bringing some of her info out, Neondaze.

free skin care · Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:15 am

Lexyg wrote:

Hhmmmm, MLM is the same as a pyramid, right? I'm not sure where you found info to come to that conclusion. It is nothing like an Avon or Mary Kaye or Tupperware and the million other pyramid, respected companies out there.

I only referred to my previous post on page 12 as Lexy queried Richard Huber and avocatin 302's involvement with MLM companies and where I had "found info to come to that conclusion".

My previous (page 12) post contains a link to a legal agreement, whereby Richard Huber provided consulting services to an MLM company marketing avocatin 302 skincare products. I really don't know how the MLM connection could be made clearer than this, and said legal agreement is replicated on many reputable websites, and also the annual return of the company involved. It is a fact, not merely my opinion, or fiction, that Richard Huber and avocatin 302 are associated with network marketing/MLM.

What I find most interesting in the discussion about the background of avocatin 302, is that a quick google of the co/inventor of the 302 patents way back in the 90s, David Counts, produces a ton of info, including his educational background, past and current positions, and that he's currently working on an anti-inflammatory peptide for Cytomedix. However, search the internet for Richard Huber, and little can be found other than flogging the same old avocado from back in 1996, here on EDS. That may sound a little harsh, but it happens to be true (I'd be happy to be proved wrong on this, if someone could provide further info).

I won't post again on this thread, or elsewhere on this topic, which I'm sure the 302 reps will be relieved to hear.

I've never posted a negative comment about the 302 products themselves, only factual references about the marketing thereof. Never have participated in any of the silly bunfights previously on EDS and don't intend to start now.

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