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Sun Nov 14, 2004 4:01 pm  |
Is there a difference?
The estitician that I see sells a 1 oz bottle of agireline (10%) complex for $200. I was telling her that the Vivier one was $75 and she said she didn't know how the price could be so low as the raw material "argireline" is so costly.
Relaxline is cheaper in comparison too. Is there a difference between products using the patented form of argireline or the unpatented form? How do we know the difference? |
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Sun Nov 14, 2004 4:08 pm |
| well the dianayvonne one has patented agireline in it and that is about $38...do you trust this woman? |
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my new jewellery website:www.gentle-medusa.com |
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Sun Nov 14, 2004 4:09 pm |
Lily, Good question. I am also interested in this type of product but I don't know which one to purchase. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Prices really seem to vary.  |
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Sun Nov 14, 2004 6:14 pm |
guapagirl: I am just getting to know this esthetician so I am not quite sure about her yet.
The argireline product I mentioned that she is selling for $200 is part of her own line that she is putting out. I've used some of her other products and I really like them so far. She keeps her products quite "pure" and they do not have 'fillers' in them. ( For example her hyralonic acid product is 100% hyralonic acid. Nothing else- no other fillers. Also a product for moisturizing is 100% squalene oil- nothing else added.) The rest of her products seem pretty much in line (cost wise) with other similar products available. The argireline is the only one that seems way out there. |
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Sun Nov 14, 2004 7:52 pm |
I'd be weary of paying that much. Alot of companies that make skin care products sell in dermatologists offices with the doctor's private label, to spas and salons that want their own label, and so on. Here's one of the companies that provides that service. I order my hyaluronic acid from them at $21. Hard to say what it would cost with a private label.
The name of the company is Professional Solutions and here is their website:
http://www.naturalskincare.com/index.html
Their Argirelene product, called ATX Double Action Gel, is $38, but I haven't tried it yet .
-Cheri |
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Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:05 pm |
This post has me stumped and I really don't know how to answer it. Maybe Ian S. will read and help us with this topic as his company manufactures products.
I agree with phredd4 that I would be very careful. A company can have products made, put their own label on it and charge whatever they want.
As far as patented and unpatented Argireline I don't have a clue but would like to hear what people have to say. |
_________________
As I am getting older I realize my biggest beauty secret is smile more and frown less. Be aware that wrinkles do not make a person unattractive. Cynicism, unforgiveness, anger and jealousy are the real culprits. Sixty something  |
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Mon Nov 15, 2004 9:50 am |
| hey Cheri, this is the same stuff I get from diana yvonne! She also sells a 100% HA. I think that your esthetician is probably keeping basics at a low price and makeing a good profit on the ATX/agiriline stuff. Can't really blame her, she has to live after all. You need to decide whether you are going to buy from her or not. Maybe you could point out the naturalskincare site to her and suggests she uses them as her supplier |
_________________
my new jewellery website:www.gentle-medusa.com |
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Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:48 am |
| I did some research on this and what I found out is that acetyl hexapeptide 3 is made by Centerchem in Spain. They "engineered" the peptide. But I can't find a patent on it. It's trademarked however, as "Argeriline"....So, seems to me that there is no difference between "acetyl hexapeptide" and "Argeriline"...As for spending $200 for an acetyl hexapeptide product. Personally, I think that's just crazy. No way so many products could use this at the proper 10% concentration and sell it at prices like the Relax. ($36) if it was so expensive that she has to charge $200. Sounds like highway robbery! |
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Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:40 pm |
I agree and i won't be spending $200 when it appears that products like relaxaline have the same stuff in it.
As i said above her other stuff seems to be 'in line' with other product prices but it makes me question everything. Hmmm...
phredd4: do you like their hyaluronic acid as much as other ones (have you tried other ones)? I checked out their website you sent and looked at their argireline product. It always seems strange to me when the %is not listed. I called the company and asked them and before they answered me they asked it I was with a company and I said no and then they told me it was 10%. Does that seem weird? Thanks for all the info and the website link. |
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Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:44 pm |
| predd4: I meant to ask if you also use their vit C and what you think of it? |
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Mon Nov 15, 2004 7:31 pm |
That's so odd. What if you had said you were with some company...would the answer have been different then?  |
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Mon Nov 15, 2004 7:41 pm |
| betterat40: Yes that seems odd to me too. Plus then I did go back to their website and looked at a different section that had info about argireline and their product. It quoted the study about how people saw a certain % of improvement over 30 days or so and it said it was based on 5% argireline (not 10%). So I am very skeptical that there really is 10% in that product. I wish I could take it to a lab to have it checked but I'm sure that is costly. |
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Mon Nov 15, 2004 8:11 pm |
| lily wrote: |
I agree and i won't be spending $200 when it appears that products like relaxaline have the same stuff in it.
As i said above her other stuff seems to be 'in line' with other product prices but it makes me question everything. Hmmm...
phredd4: do you like their hyaluronic acid as much as other ones (have you tried other ones)? I checked out their website you sent and looked at their argireline product. It always seems strange to me when the %is not listed. I called the company and asked them and before they answered me they asked it I was with a company and I said no and then they told me it was 10%. Does that seem weird? Thanks for all the info and the website link. |
I have tried many other Hyaluronic acid products but I like the one for Professional Solutions better than any for my whole face and am on my third bottle. For around my eyes I am using and loving CellularSkinrx Eye Bright which has helped my puffiness tremendously. The ingredients list hyaluronic acid among other things. I don't have dark circles so I can't vouch for it in that capacity although others say it does work. I am using Relaxaline too, but I have to admit argireline doesn't seem to be doing much for me. I've tried 3 products with supposedly 10% and none of them seem to have helped any. Funny how products work for some and not for others. Maybe it has something to do with me having botox previously in those same areas although I've been told Argireline will help the botox to last longer. I'll be having Botox again on my crows feet this Thursday.
Your reply from them when you called is strange. Maybe call again tomorrow and tell them you are with a business? "Lily's Day Spa" ???
-Cheri |
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Mon Nov 15, 2004 8:22 pm |
| lily wrote: |
| predd4: I meant to ask if you also use their vit C and what you think of it? |
Sorry, but I haven't used their Vit C. Right now I am using Dermalogica Multivitamin Power Concentrate which is in capsule form and I am really liking it. I use one capsule every other day. Ascorbic Acid (Vit C) is listed as an ingredient, but I don't think it is as much as other Vit C products, which is just as well with me. Too much Vit C doesn't sit well with my eczemic skin and tends to make it too dry. Others have said they really like CellularSkinRX brand. I'm not sure but I think it has 10% Vit C. Betterat40 could help you with the percentage as she knows alot about that company.
-Cheri |
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Mon Nov 15, 2004 9:19 pm |
| betterat40 wrote: |
| I did some research on this and what I found out is that acetyl hexapeptide 3 is made by Centerchem in Spain. They "engineered" the peptide. But I can't find a patent on it. It's trademarked however, as "Argeriline"....So, seems to me that there is no difference between "acetyl hexapeptide" and "Argeriline"...As for spending $200 for an acetyl hexapeptide product. Personally, I think that's just crazy. No way so many products could use this at the proper 10% concentration and sell it at prices like the Relax. ($36) if it was so expensive that she has to charge $200. Sounds like highway robbery! |
Main difference in Argireline and just any acetyl hexapeptide-3 is that Centerchem did the clinical trials on their trademarked product, Argireline. No other clinical trials have been done. The clinical trials done were at the 10% concentration. Their report on their site states that, but then suggests that products contain 5%. I've puzzled over that one for the past year. I think they are recommending a minimum 5% concentration for any effectiveness at all and 10% if you want to achieve the results that were achieved in the clinical trials. Those are 17% reduction in fine lines and wrinkles in 15 days; 27% reduction in 30 days; 39% improvement in smoothness; 42% improvement in dryness; and 45% improvement in skin tone.
Researchers also say that to get the best results from Argireline preparations, they should also contain anti-oxidants such as Vitamins A, C, E, or grapeseed extract, green tea extract. Also the acetyl hexapeptide-3 ingredients should be stabilized (which Argireline is), and the product should contain no dyes or irritants such as SD alcohol.
Some experts recommend using a mineral preparation prior to using the Argireline product (I do this and believe it has improved my results).
Bear in mind that while 27% reduction in fine lines and wrinkles in 30 days is significant, if you are seeing this improvement in this gradual (30 day) fashion, the naked eye has a very difficult time discerning it. Best way to really know is to either take before and after pictures or do 1/2 face applications.
JUDY |
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Looking young never grows old! |
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Tue Nov 16, 2004 7:26 am |
Judy.. perhaps B4 and after are best.. after one month who wants half their face smoother and firmer and the other half still saggy and wrinkly  |
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Tue Nov 16, 2004 12:56 pm |
| tiger_tim wrote: |
| Judy.. perhaps B4 and after are best.. after one month who wants half their face smoother and firmer and the other half still saggy and wrinkly |
Totally agree....No way did I do the before and after doing only one side of my face. It would have looked as if I had a stroke or something. When I started using AD I did a before and I am still taking a picture from time to time. The results can be so gradual that is the best way to get a true picture of what the product is doing. |
_________________
As I am getting older I realize my biggest beauty secret is smile more and frown less. Be aware that wrinkles do not make a person unattractive. Cynicism, unforgiveness, anger and jealousy are the real culprits. Sixty something |
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Tue Nov 16, 2004 5:07 pm |
| tiger_tim wrote: |
| Judy.. perhaps B4 and after are best.. after one month who wants half their face smoother and firmer and the other half still saggy and wrinkly |
I agree. However, I have heard some talking about doing tests with one product on one side and another on the other, so I was just putting the options out there so you can really know what's going on.
JUDY |
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Looking young never grows old! |
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