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Nasolabial Folds--What's Worked and How Long Did It Take?
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jeanleemarquis
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Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:40 am      Reply with quote
Has anyone been able to substantially diminish their N/L lines, the ones running from the nose to mouth? I am on a mission to get rid of mine, hopefully without using a filler! I've had Radiesse done this past April, but it didn't last as long as I had hoped, and by September it appeared to be completely gone. This coincided with about the time that I began doing Flex Effect and Ageless If You Dare-- perhaps the exercises had the effect of dissipating the filler? I didn't expect this to happen, especially since I had been doing Facercise since April, right after having the Radiesse done, and that didn't seem to affect things.

Anyway, it's been about 2 1/2 months since I've begun facial resistance training-- and I've definitely gone through my ugly stages! The N/L folds had gotten really bad at one point, although now they appear to be about where they were pre-Radiesse. (Except for the N/L folds, I'm very happy with the results that I've gotten.) Can anyone doing either of these programs tell me about how long it took for their N/L folds to go away? (Or if the N/L folds didn't go away?) Also, are there specific exercises that I could do more often that would make the N/L folds go away faster?

Other things I'm doing to attack these N/L folds are: dermarolling (3 times since August, about once a month); retin-a, .05%; MSM supplements, 5000mg/ day, divided. These are all things that I've picked up while reading through the EDS threads! I'm also thinking about using Frownies for the N/L folds-- would they work for this area?

Thank you, thank you, thank you in advance for your advice and sharing!
graceless_lady
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Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:38 am      Reply with quote
I am interested in following this thread ...

I'm of the opinion that facial exercises make the N/L lines worse (on my face at least) - Ageless definitely exacerbated mine, and I was not prepared to keep going in case it made it even worse.

I'm now just a few years from 50 (got to amend my signature!) and quite slim - and since Easy Eye Solutions "cured" my undereye problem, the N/L lines have become my Public Enemy Number One.

Interested in suggestions (though I've dismissed fillers as too temporary and costly). At the moment, I'm pretty much only relying on Retin-A. But jeanleemarqius reminded me that I could perhaps go back to Frownies ... I was trying them for a while before I embarked on Ageless, and they did seem to be working (though post-Ageless the problem is now a deepening at the side of my nose rather than the classic N/L line that runs all the way down towards the mouth).

Hope there will be some responses here!

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jeanleemarquis
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Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:58 am      Reply with quote
Hi graceless_lady,

Can you tell me how long you were doing Ageless before you decided it wasn't for you?

(Brace yourself, here come a ton of questions!) Also, I'm thinking about getting some surgical tape in lieu of Frownies-- it should pretty much do the same thing, right? Where would you anchor the tape/ Frownies on your face to address the N/L folds? Just pretty much straight back to smooth the cheeks out? Did you find that the Frownies interfered much with the other stuff that you put on your face (like retin-a, perhaps?) Do you recall how long it took for the Frownies to smooth everything out? From what I've read in the older Frownies posts, it seems that there's an accumulative effect by using the Frownies every night, although it seems that those posts mostly discuss the 11's between the brows. However, I wonder if Frownies will do the same thing for the N/L folds, since immobilizing the muscle may not fix this area because the N/L folds are more a result of the with the "drape" of the skin & muscle (I *think*.) Thanks graceless_lady!

And if there are any experienced dermarollers out there, could you chime in and tell me about how long it took to see results on the N/L fold (if any?)

Thanks again!
mpstat
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Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:48 am      Reply with quote
jeanleemarquis - exercises that lift upper cheeks can reduce NL folds, and can help to lift entire face. I am doing 3 in 1 exercise from FE that listed in cheek bootcamp. I do not do it on bootcamp schedule, however I pay extra attention to this area.

Another option to use electro muscle stimulator device such as Tua Viso, maybe those who use TV regularly can provide more feedback. I have TV, but do not use it much more relying on actual physical facial exercises. From the experience with TV can say that this device gives strong muscle contractions.
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Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:50 pm      Reply with quote
Hi everyone - Agreee that lifting the cheeks muscles really helps diminish the NL folds. I have been using the Tua Viso for 6 months and the AAlightstim for 19 months. Both have helped immensely. In addition you may want to put
some cream to diminsh wrinkles lightly in the NL folds at night (I use a DIY cream with matrixyl, antioxidents etc) It takes time but you can really see the difference months later.
You also have to be consistent. I'm in my late 50's so we'll keep doing this regimen till something better comes along - DiPhx

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Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:57 pm      Reply with quote
Hi everyone,

I just wanted to ask if anybody felt that Electro muscle stimulators (Tua Viso etc) seem to make fillers dissipate quicker ?

many thanks

Jackie xx
jeanleemarquis
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Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:26 pm      Reply with quote
Mpstat-- How often do you do the cheek bootcamp? Also, how long did it take before you saw results?

Jackie-- Although I can't vouch for whether the TV dissipates fillers faster than they would normally would otherwise, I believe that doing the facial resistance exercises have definitely had that effect. I mean come on, Radiesse is supposed to last something like a year, but I only got 4 months out of it! I was *hoping* that I would get results from the exercises before I needed to think about getting a filler again. Oh well. This is an interesting topic-- perhaps you could start a new thread?

I *thought* my N/L folds were actually getting better for a while, and then I tried this facial exercise program called "Faceworks" described by Moonstone on the bone facial exercise thread. (She said that her N/L folds got better in a week!) However, mine just seemed to have gotten worse. *Sigh*.
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Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:08 pm      Reply with quote
hi mpstat - Can you tell me what your count is for the 3 in 1? Do you do the 10 reps for six or something different? I'm going to add this into the mix.

Thanks - For all of you with questions about getting rid of NL Lines - FE has helped lift my nl folds - I haven't done anything to them and the line moved outward and keeps getting better. It takes time but it's natural! And inexpensive.

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mpstat
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Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:31 pm      Reply with quote
jeanleemarquis wrote:
Mpstat-- How often do you do the cheek bootcamp? Also, how long did it take before you saw results?...

jeanleemarquis - I do 3 in 1 exercise on its own, and not on boot camp schedule. Currently I do facial exercises every other day, but when I started I was doing them every day for quite a while. I noticed results in a couple of months but it was not NL specific, more for overall look.
mpstat
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Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:33 pm      Reply with quote
sister sweets wrote:
hi mpstat - Can you tell me what your count is for the 3 in 1? Do you do the 10 reps for six or something different? I'm going to add this into the mix.

Thanks - For all of you with questions about getting rid of NL Lines - FE has helped lift my nl folds - I haven't done anything to them and the line moved outward and keeps getting better. It takes time but it's natural! And inexpensive.

sister sweets - original 3 in 1 exercise uses two hands on two sides simultaneously. I do each side separately with both hands locked on a side. This ensures better lock and contraction.

I do not count reps, but use timing instead. Two sets of 1-1.5 min exercises with approximately 6 sec. contractions. This way each side gets 2-3 min strong exercising with good resistance. Total 3 in 1 for both sides takes 4-6 min.
breezy42
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Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:38 am      Reply with quote
Thank you for starting this thread! I hate my N/L lines, and I'd love to know how to get rid of them. I am planning to use the dermaroller - I actually bought a single needle which I will try as well (just waiting on that and the numbing cream). I have used Retin A for about a year, and it seems to have helped slightly (maybe 30%), and I just started Ageless.

Jackie284, I, too, wonder if Electro muscle stimulators. I would like to get one, but I am also on the fence about getting fillers, Sculptra actually, to help with some of my tissue loss.
graceless_lady
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Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:39 am      Reply with quote
jeanleemarquis wrote:
Hi graceless_lady,

Can you tell me how long you were doing Ageless before you decided it wasn't for you?

(Brace yourself, here come a ton of questions!) Also, I'm thinking about getting some surgical tape in lieu of Frownies-- it should pretty much do the same thing, right? Where would you anchor the tape/ Frownies on your face to address the N/L folds? Just pretty much straight back to smooth the cheeks out? Did you find that the Frownies interfered much with the other stuff that you put on your face (like retin-a, perhaps?) Do you recall how long it took for the Frownies to smooth everything out? From what I've read in the older Frownies posts, it seems that there's an accumulative effect by using the Frownies every night, although it seems that those posts mostly discuss the 11's between the brows. However, I wonder if Frownies will do the same thing for the N/L folds, since immobilizing the muscle may not fix this area because the N/L folds are more a result of the with the "drape" of the skin & muscle (I *think*.) Thanks graceless_lady!

And if there are any experienced dermarollers out there, could you chime in and tell me about how long it took to see results on the N/L fold (if any?)

Thanks again!


Hi jeanleemarquis.

I did Ageless for about three months and in that time the N/L lines definitely worsened (I took photos so I could assess my progress). I wasn't too pleased with the overall result; I looked tired and drawn. I quit about four months ago, and things have settled down but those N/L lines (primarily at the side of my nose) are still there.

I used surgical tape instead of Frownies. I pulled the cheek upwards so the skin was as tight as possible and positioned the tape directly over the 'problem area'. Yes, using Frownies or tape in conjunction with creams is definitely not ideal - the Frownies in particular would not stick well (the surgical tape somewhat better but still not too great). So I was not using any creams in the areas I was using the tape, and was alternating a bit of retin-a or vit c in the morning.

I am going to go back to the tape in the next few days and will attempt to be consistent for a good few months to see if I make any progress. I'll certainly keep you informed!

Good luck to you jean.

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Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:42 pm      Reply with quote
Because I use SkinBiology's LacSal at night, I am afraid to use frownies for fear they will rip my skin off.

I've noticed that when I gain a little weight, the nasolabial folds worsen because there is more fat in my cheeks above and outside the folds. I know conventional wisdom states that losing weight makes your face drawn and haggard. Well, maybe that's true if you lose too much. My boyfriend, who is 60, recently lost ten pounds and his face looks leaner and younger.

I plan to use the dr-roller brand of DermaRoller recommended on here -- if someone ever gives me the current discount Coupon Code so I can order! I want it now, now, NOW! Laughing
jeanleemarquis
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Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:27 am      Reply with quote
Thanks everyone for your suggestions. While I *do* believe that facial exercises (and TV type gadgets) and dermarolling will work in the long run, it's that ugly in-between stage before everything kicks in that I wish I could do something about. For myself, I think I'm going to give the facial exercises a total trial period of 6 months before I assess whether they're working on the N/L fold... almost halfway there! So I guess the question is, what can I do in the meantime, short of getting fillers (which seem like they would dissipate quickly anyway)?

I'm going to give the Frownies a go this weekend & see if that makes that crease somewhat less noticeable in the mornings, and hopefully, throughout the rest of the day. And DiPhx, is there a particular cream you put in the N/L line? I'm thinking maybe that something that has a "plumping" ingredient might work better, perhaps something with Matrixyl? Does anyone have any suggestions for skin plumping ingredients?

(The thing is with these multi-pronged strategies is that you can't really untangle what is actually working for you... although it is probably more of a synergistic effect anyway...)

And another question to put out there: Does anyone feel that doing some sort of facial massage helps alleviate the N/L? If so, can you detail what you do, and perhaps theorize why it works? (Perhaps it's because of better circulation?)

*God, I feel like such a vain doofus*
SeanySeanUK
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Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:56 am      Reply with quote
I believe that massage should always be done in some form with facial exercises and both FlexEffect and Ageless do have a massage routine recommended to be done alongside the exercises.

I think with the nl area, its important to work out if its caused by the cheek area sagging, and creating the line, or whether its damage tissue that has been exposed by the muscles lifting up and out.

There is bound to be a solution (I think there always is a solution its just finding the right one for you) and I wish you every success. Smile
jeanleemarquis wrote:
Thanks everyone for your suggestions. While I *do* believe that facial exercises (and TV type gadgets) and dermarolling will work in the long run, it's that ugly in-between stage before everything kicks in that I wish I could do something about. For myself, I think I'm going to give the facial exercises a total trial period of 6 months before I assess whether they're working on the N/L fold... almost halfway there! So I guess the question is, what can I do in the meantime, short of getting fillers (which seem like they would dissipate quickly anyway)?

I'm going to give the Frownies a go this weekend & see if that makes that crease somewhat less noticeable in the mornings, and hopefully, throughout the rest of the day. And DiPhx, is there a particular cream you put in the N/L line? I'm thinking maybe that something that has a "plumping" ingredient might work better, perhaps something with Matrixyl? Does anyone have any suggestions for skin plumping ingredients?

(The thing is with these multi-pronged strategies is that you can't really untangle what is actually working for you... although it is probably more of a synergistic effect anyway...)

And another question to put out there: Does anyone feel that doing some sort of facial massage helps alleviate the N/L? If so, can you detail what you do, and perhaps theorize why it works? (Perhaps it's because of better circulation?)

*God, I feel like such a vain doofus*

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jeanleemarquis
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Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:32 am      Reply with quote
Oops-- sorry DiPhx, I just noticed that you *did* say that your N/L cream uses Matrixyl! Would you mind sharing your DIY recipe?

Sean-- thanks for responding so quickly! In your opinion, how integral is the massage component to the FE program? Perhaps, say 30%? Do you think that the effectiveness of massage is due to improved blood circulation? I wonder...

(I need to check out that FE cheek bootcamp, but my registration hasn't yet cleared with the admin on the site.)

N/L folds are so tricky, aren't they? They're just so *passive*-- in that they're a result of another part of the face (cheeks) sagging-- isn't that correct? Or are they a result of facial expression using the mouth muscles-- smiling, frowning, etc? (Or both?) In any case, they seem like they're a happenstance result of facial geography. It might be helpful to figure out what actually *causes* this line in order to address how to treat it.

(*Spending way too much time at EDS, need to work...*)
SeanySeanUK
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Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:53 am      Reply with quote
Not a problem. I always think of Debís comment about half her success being due to the massage, and I think its probably right. The massage isnít only to increase circulation, it will touch on every area that you have missed with the exercises, places like the ears, the sides and back of the neck etc. Also I believe the massage really stimulates the body at a cellular level, so when your massaging say the forehead, not only are you helping the circulation, your removing tension (if you think of people who frown constantly, you can see the tension actually in their foreheads at times), but your also stimulating the cells at the same time. I particularly find it very relaxing, (and the tapping is one of my favourite parts).

With the bootcamp, you donít want to start that till your sure your muscles are up to the challenge. Its something I tell beginners not to do until they have been training for 6 months, as that way your have maximum benefit. Its not that you wonít get results, but till your able to contract all three muscles and hold that contraction (and its easy in the beginning to assume your doing so, but you may find later out that your contracting one more than the other)Ö. Having said that I love it as a shock tactic to the muscles.

N/L folds are tricky, its kind of a term that can be used to describe so many different things. Some say they are caused by sagging, some believe its where the facial fat diminishes and begins sliding to the jawline, and some say its actually because of gravity. Either way, I have had some great success with people who have gotten rid of the completely with hard work (both massage, exercises and diet). Sometimes it can be caused by the caninus, other times it can be as a result of the zyogmaticus. Its one of the reasons its important to work all the muscles so they get back to good health and become stronger.

Bit too difficult to judge on words alone. Iím sure your registration will go through shortly. Then you can post a photo on the FE forum and get better detailed advice.
jeanleemarquis wrote:
Oops-- sorry DiPhx, I just noticed that you *did* say that your N/L cream uses Matrixyl! Would you mind sharing your DIY recipe?

Sean-- thanks for responding so quickly! In your opinion, how integral is the massage component to the FE program? Perhaps, say 30%? Do you think that the effectiveness of massage is due to improved blood circulation? I wonder...

(I need to check out that FE cheek bootcamp, but my registration hasn't yet cleared with the admin on the site.)

N/L folds are so tricky, aren't they? They're just so *passive*-- in that they're a result of another part of the face (cheeks) sagging-- isn't that correct? Or are they a result of facial expression using the mouth muscles-- smiling, frowning, etc? (Or both?) In any case, they seem like they're a happenstance result of facial geography. It might be helpful to figure out what actually *causes* this line in order to address how to treat it.

(*Spending way too much time at EDS, need to work...*)

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Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:47 am      Reply with quote
This teeth is fully depending on the teeth. If the teeth are too short and the face has to be pressed together to say letters like S and F, you will get this fold. If you're teeth are long and you can speak with no trouble, you won't get it.
Get your teeth fixed!
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Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:04 am      Reply with quote
Ok I'm staying silent on this one - someone else can comment! Laughing
Vor wrote:
This teeth is fully depending on the teeth. If the teeth are too short and the face has to be pressed together to say letters like S and F, you will get this fold. If you're teeth are long and you can speak with no trouble, you won't get it.
Get your teeth fixed!

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Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:13 am      Reply with quote
SeanySeanUK wrote:
Ok I'm staying silent on this one - someone else can comment! Laughing
Vor wrote:
This teeth is fully depending on the teeth. If the teeth are too short and the face has to be pressed together to say letters like S and F, you will get this fold. If you're teeth are long and you can speak with no trouble, you won't get it.
Get your teeth fixed!


Sean, you and me both! (choking on coffee) Laughing
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Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:29 am      Reply with quote
Okay... hmm, I'll give it a shot?

While I agree that teeth are a very important factor in maintaining the facial structure, I'm not too sure whether having "longer teeth" would help out the appearance of the N/L fold. In fact, the *appearance* of having longer teeth due to receding gums actually can make one look older (although receding gums themselves do not actually extend the length of the tooth). Hence the saying, "long in the tooth" being synonymous with looking old.

That said, perhaps another idea in fixing that N/L fold could be bulking up the teeth that lay directly below it with some very thick veneers? Razz Just joking! (I can just imagine having a pair of bulging incisors hanging out of my mouth!)
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Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:30 am      Reply with quote
Vor wrote:
This fold is fully depending on the teeth. If the teeth are too short and the face has to be pressed together to say letters like S and F, you will get this fold. If you're teeth are long and you can speak with no trouble, you won't get it.
Get your teeth fixed!
What I actually meant.
Anyway, this is the conclusion I have come to, when watching people with these folds. Just test it by saying S. Does your face have to wrinkle or not?
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Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:37 am      Reply with quote
SeanyseanUK, can you go back to your diet comment? I read an article by a Japanese woman saying that NL folds are a dietary issue. She said that people with very exaggerated NL folds usually have some kind of stomach or digestive problems like chronic constipation. She said if you fix the stomach problem, it fixes the NL folds. Basically, a healthy digestive system can work wonders in this area. I wonder if there is any truth to that.

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Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:53 pm      Reply with quote
Tonia wrote:
SeanyseanUK, can you go back to your diet comment? I read an article by a Japanese woman saying that NL folds are a dietary issue. She said that people with very exaggerated NL folds usually have some kind of stomach or digestive problems like chronic constipation. She said if you fix the stomach problem, it fixes the NL folds. Basically, a healthy digestive system can work wonders in this area. I wonder if there is any truth to that.


I am starting to beleive this. My NL's have been largely resolved due to 2 rounds of sculptra, plus I am doing CP's, plus I am doing the green tea LED thing HOWEVER my years of stomach problems seems to have recently been put to rest by sticking to a good dose about 8,000mg of MSM...and I can't help but wonder if it is this that is improving my skin so much esp the NL's???

rebecca

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Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:53 pm      Reply with quote
Hi Jeanleemarquis - On the DIY cream here are
the main ingredents I add:
base cream
matrixyl 3000
CoQ10
colostrum
avocado oil
naimicide
antioxidant oil (from SAS)

just follow SAS's instructions for the amounts to add depending upon how mych base cream you use. HTH DiPhx

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