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Carolyn's Facial Fitness
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TheresaMary
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Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:00 am      Reply with quote
Ok am looking at the site for the above, and wondering if any of you lady's have tried it and what you thought?

She's got a photo of herself at 63: http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/pictures-of-carolyn

And also has just come out with her own skincare line:

http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/carolyns-journey-to-cfformulas

Has anyone tried the products, what do you think?

Theresa
Alley
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Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:19 pm      Reply with quote
TheresaMary I have Carolyn's DVD, I tried it once and found that I gave myself broken capillaries and didn't use it again. I don't think the exercises were the problem just the amount of pressure I used.

Having said that I do Ageless, Carol Maggio and Tanaka Massage and was thinking I should get Carolyn's DVD out again....

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Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:11 pm      Reply with quote
I havent done this but I am dying to get my hands on Ageless, its probably I only one I will try and do for the next few years.
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Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:08 am      Reply with quote
Hi, all. I shared my experience of Carolyn's Facial Fitness in the thread, Facial Exercises: Share The Process and Results. I am a very happy user of CFF, although I was a late starter a year ago at age 63. I haven't tried Carolyn's new skincare line yet, but plan to try some of the products soon. I have a few sunspots that I would like to eliminate, but otherwise I am happy with the condition of my skin. I think the exercises themselves have helped to improve it. Read more about my experience on the thread.
TheresaMary
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Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:10 am      Reply with quote
Newera

I can't find your posting at all, but could you perhaps repost it here for us all. I think its a good idea that we all get feedback on Carolyn's stuff and if you have posted it elsewhere could you kindly copy it here for us.

Thanks so much

Theresa
newera wrote:
Hi, all. I shared my experience of Carolyn's Facial Fitness in the thread, Facial Exercises: Share The Process and Results. I am a very happy user of CFF, although I was a late starter a year ago at age 63. I haven't tried Carolyn's new skincare line yet, but plan to try some of the products soon. I have a few sunspots that I would like to eliminate, but otherwise I am happy with the condition of my skin. I think the exercises themselves have helped to improve it. Read more about my experience on the thread.
newera
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Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:55 pm      Reply with quote
TheresaMary wrote:
Newera

I can't find your posting at all, but could you perhaps repost it here for us all. I think its a good idea that we all get feedback on Carolyn's stuff and if you have posted it elsewhere could you kindly copy it here for us.

Thanks so much

Theresa
newera wrote:
Hi, all. I shared my experience of Carolyn's Facial Fitness in the thread, Facial Exercises: Share The Process and Results. I am a very happy user of CFF, although I was a late starter a year ago at age 63. I haven't tried Carolyn's new skincare line yet, but plan to try some of the products soon. I have a few sunspots that I would like to eliminate, but otherwise I am happy with the condition of my skin. I think the exercises themselves have helped to improve it. Read more about my experience on the thread.


Hi, Theresa,

Really sorry, but I don't know how to copy and paste it into this thread. My technical knowledge is very limited. However, this should locate the post for you: Click on my profile and 'Find all posts by newera', then go to the one which begins, "Hi, Patti, this is my first post", then click on 'Go to Post'. That should bring it up for you. HTH.
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Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:06 pm      Reply with quote
Alley wrote:
TheresaMary I have Carolyn's DVD, I tried it once and found that I gave myself broken capillaries and didn't use it again. I don't think the exercises were the problem just the amount of pressure I used.

Having said that I do Ageless, Carol Maggio and Tanaka Massage and was thinking I should get Carolyn's DVD out again....


Hi Alley - With all you know now it might be a good adventure to try the DVD by Carolyn. There might be some great stuff to learn. I've been impressed by some things I know and have tried of hers.

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Patti1013
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Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:31 am      Reply with quote
Hi Newera, I'm the Patti you responded to on the Facial Exercise Share the Process thread about your experience with CFF. That post was last August. Are you still seeing positive results? I haven't purchased Carolyn's program yet. I've been doing Loulou's Ageless if you Dare since last Feb and plan to continue with it. I'm considering purchasing CFF in the near future, and adding her exercises in on alternate days.

I hope you don't mind my doing so, but I think your response to me on that thread is worth sharing here, so I copied and pasted it below...
    Hi, Patti. This is my first post on the forum, so I hope I do it right. I'd like to put in a word for Carolyn's Facial Fitness. I'm nearly 64 and have been doing CFF for eight months. I had always been told I look younger than my age, but I was beginning to see the lines and sagging increasing little by little. I'm not one to take things lying down, but I would never have gone down the route of invasive procedures, even if I had the money to do it - which I don't. Fear would be a big enough deterrent on its own, plus my preference for doing things for myself. I knew something about facial exercises, but decided to find out more, so after several days' worth of surfing the internet, I had a lot more information. I read it all carefully, but finally decided on Carolyn's Facial Fitness. What made me lean towards CFF first of all was the comprehensiveness of the website - there's a huge amount of information - plus I felt a kindred spirit with Carolyn when I read about how she developed her programme. Also, the Before/After photos featured older women who I could identify with and who had achieved striking but believable results with CFF. Carolyn herself started facial exercises at 50, so that was an encouragement in itself. I think the biggest plus of all, though, was Carolyn's promise that she personally answers all queries. She provides an email address, phone number and even her home address. That easy accessibility really appealed to me, because no matter how clear the programme (and CFF is very clear), I always have little questions that come to mind. There were lots of them, but Carolyn has been true to her word and I can honestly say that most of my emails have been responded to within the hour - as long as I bear in mind the time-difference between Seattle and the UK, where I live. I find her to be very friendly and approachable and genuinely interested in her clients. As for the programme itself, what I like about it is that it covers the whole of the face and neck, including the nose and ears - and there's even a technique for 'rubbing out' lines and wrinkles. So, eight months in, what are the results so far? Well, to my great relief, there have been no 'awkward phases' such as users of other programmes have reported. I couldn't have coped with that, even temporarily, and Carolyn promised there wouldn't be any. I would say the first real signs of progress came after about four months. My skin started to feel thicker and springier - something that most facial exercisers report, whatever the programme. Over the next few months, my cheeks, eyelids and brows gradually lifted, my neck and upper chest became stronger and smoother. Everything now feels firm, plump and taut - even my earlobes! Another thing I've noticed is my improved facial posture. For years I'd walked around with my mouth slightly open, as it seemed an effort to close it fully (I suppose because of slack mouth-muscles). Now my natural default position is to hold my lips lightly together - which I can only think is because the muscles around my mouth have tightened up. I'm working on the lines around my mouth, which are slowly but gradually responding to the 'rubbing out' technique. Carolyn warned me it would be a long job, but I told her I'm up for it - and I am! To me at age 64, all these improvements are very gratifying. Because CFF is such a comprehensive system and suits me, I intend to continue with it for the rest of my life, and I'm sure I can expect to see further improvements over time. Consistency and perseverance are the key.
If anyone's interested in reading more, here's a link to that page: http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=478928&highlight=newera#478928
newera
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Sat Dec 19, 2009 2:17 pm      Reply with quote
Hi, Patti,

Thank you for copying and pasting my original post - I was hoping someone would do that, as I'm not very computer-savvy.

To answer your question about whether I'm still seeing positive results with CFF - the answer is definitely 'Yes'. I don't mean a startling overnight transformation, but a slow, steady, tightening and firming up. It's still 'work in progress' and the lower face needs to firm up more (hey, I'm 64!), but it's definitely improving. I have a least- favourite mirror that tells me the truth, and I can see the progress even in that mirror.

By the way, there's a fascinating article on the CFF website: 'Why We Age Well With Facial Exercises.' It very informative and makes perfect sense. It's in the section, 'Why Facial Exercises Work'.
Alley
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Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:23 pm      Reply with quote
sister sweets wrote:
Alley wrote:
TheresaMary I have Carolyn's DVD, I tried it once and found that I gave myself broken capillaries and didn't use it again. I don't think the exercises were the problem just the amount of pressure I used.

Having said that I do Ageless, Carol Maggio and Tanaka Massage and was thinking I should get Carolyn's DVD out again....


Hi Alley - With all you know now it might be a good adventure to try the DVD by Carolyn. There might be some great stuff to learn. I've been impressed by some things I know and have tried of hers.


You are so right I have definitely learned so much about about facial massage that I owe Carolyn another look. I will report back Very Happy

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Patti1013
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Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:43 pm      Reply with quote
newera wrote:
Hi, Patti,

Thank you for copying and pasting my original post - I was hoping someone would do that, as I'm not very computer-savvy.

To answer your question about whether I'm still seeing positive results with CFF - the answer is definitely 'Yes'. I don't mean a startling overnight transformation, but a slow, steady, tightening and firming up. It's still 'work in progress' and the lower face needs to firm up more (hey, I'm 64!), but it's definitely improving. I have a least- favourite mirror that tells me the truth, and I can see the progress even in that mirror.

By the way, there's a fascinating article on the CFF website: 'Why We Age Well With Facial Exercises.' It very informative and makes perfect sense. It's in the section, 'Why Facial Exercises Work'.


Hi Newera, Glad to help you out there. Plus, I thought that post was worth sharing on this thread. And thanks for the update. I know what you mean about our faces being a "work in progress." Facial exercise does not produce an overnight transformation. It's no different than exercising the body. It takes time, effort and persistence. I've seen positive changes over the last eight months I've been doing Ageless face ex's. Nothing dramatic, very subtle. By the way, I'm 55, so I'm not too far behind you.

I'm thinking about buying Carolyn's dvd and changing up my routine a little. I'll still do Ageless, especially the great cheek exercises, but I want to add something new and give my facial muscles something to think about!

I'll check out the why we age well with facial exercise article on the CFF site. Thanks for mentioning that.
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Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:08 am      Reply with quote
Hi all,

I've been using Carol Maggio's Ultimate DVD for 4 months now. I'm happy with the result however, I'd like to purchase another facial exercise program to use as an added boost. I was thinking about getting the CFF system. How do you all like CFF? Are you happy with the result? Thanks.
cameronfrye
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Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:27 pm      Reply with quote
I used Carolyn's facial fitness for about 3 months. I had to stop due to several negative results. The exercises caused a painful TMJ to develop and now I am getting treatments for it. Hopefully, it will get better.

Other than that, I didn't like how my face started looking after CFF. It seemed like my nose was getting wider and bigger and my mouth area was getting overbuilt. I also feel like my lower face has gotten saggier looking? I don't know if that's from the exercises or something else. I have stopped for a month now, and the overbuild around the mouth area has faded away. But my nose still remains the same. The tip is rounder and wider than before I started CFF. Did anybody else go through similar experience? I am afraid my nose will never go back to normal.
Crying or Very sad

Anyway, I am sure CFF is working great for others, but it wasn't working for me somehow.
TheresaMary
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Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:02 am      Reply with quote
Wow was it definitely CFF that did this - I've never heard that before from anything but FlexEffect? Yikes I guess what they say about facial exercise programs is true, that it can have different results for different people. Did you speak with Carolyn - one of the things i kind of liked about her system is that you get access to her direct with queries etc. What did she advise you about your results?
cameronfrye wrote:
I used Carolyn's facial fitness for about 3 months. I had to stop due to several negative results. The exercises caused a painful TMJ to develop and now I am getting treatments for it. Hopefully, it will get better.

Other than that, I didn't like how my face started looking after CFF. It seemed like my nose was getting wider and bigger and my mouth area was getting overbuilt. I also feel like my lower face has gotten saggier looking? I don't know if that's from the exercises or something else. I have stopped for a month now, and the overbuild around the mouth area has faded away. But my nose still remains the same. The tip is rounder and wider than before I started CFF. Did anybody else go through similar experience? I am afraid my nose will never go back to normal.
Crying or Very sad

Anyway, I am sure CFF is working great for others, but it wasn't working for me somehow.
cm5597
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Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:56 am      Reply with quote
Skincarefreak,

Carolyn now has an interactive chart that shows you all the facial muscles her exercises target on an exercise by exercise basis:

http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/facial-exercises-and-the-muscles-they-activate

This helps show you which muscles her exercises target. Interestingly, her exercises seem to focus a lot on the eyes, forehead, and lower face, but not as much on the cheeks (looks like there are only 2 exercises that directly target the cheeks).

The one thing I don't understand is that for most of her exercises, she indicates that many muscles are involved (rather than one or just a couple)...I'm not sure how she accomplishes that, as in virtually all other exercise programs, you basically work one or two muscles at a time. Perhaps someone with CFF can elaborate...

HTH Smile

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Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:21 am      Reply with quote
I never saw that chart, that’s brilliant and she drew it herself. I love how it highlights the muscle described, and she gives the break down of which of her exercises work that.

One thing though that I do know is that with FlexEffect, although they say they are targeting a particular muscle, they do acknowledge that often times other muscles come into play. Shawn helped me out one time when I was doing an exercise for my jawline, where he explained to me that when I did a particular movement if I focused on the target muscle, even though the other muscles jumped in, it had a very different sensation than if I did the group of muscles. So I suppose its something that’s applicable to every program out there. Even Maggio’s exercises like Face Contour or Face Widener for example exercise a group of muscles rather than one single muscle.

Here’s a bit from her site that I think answers your questions re group of muscles.
http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/faq/facial-exercise-faq/how-is-sliding-on-the-skin-superior-to-gripping-and-holding
Working Groups of Muscles is Key
I also know that many of the facial exercise programs ask you to "grip" and hold a spot on the face while working the muscles. One reason for this method of exercise has to do with "isolating" the muscle and working it. Isolation exercises are on the way out in bodybuilding, if they aren't gone already. This is an "old-fashioned" approach to body building that was once thought to be the best way to get results. Many years ago and since the advent of CFF™, it has been found that working "groups" of muscles is more effective in body building and hence, also, facial and neck building. If you want to isolate the muscle, then you need to be able to "grip" that "spot" and anchor the muscle to work it.

Muscles function in groups. Isolation works against function. CFF™ works groups of muscles and slides a lot on the face and neck to preserve the integrity of the fascia and work these muscle groups. This method is more "functional". Muscles are always sliding on each other. The CFF™ method works in the way muscles actually function. This allows the massage action to happen and is one of the reasons you have this more natural and sensual look with CFF™, which gives a well-toned appearance as well , while preventing the bulky or lumpy look that gripping and isolating muscles on the face and neck can give.

Furthermore, since ten times more oxygen comes to a contracted muscle than not, the skins ability to absorb moisture is increased and its elasticity is enhanced. Remember, the skin is "elastic" but it is also "alive". It does not necessarily stretch out of shape like an "inorganic" piece of elastic. The skin is a living organism renewing itself with brand new skin cells, for example, every 7 days.


Theresa
cm5597 wrote:
Skincarefreak,

Carolyn now has an interactive chart that shows you all the facial muscles her exercises target on an exercise by exercise basis:

http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/facial-exercises-and-the-muscles-they-activate

This helps show you which muscles her exercises target. Interestingly, her exercises seem to focus a lot on the eyes, forehead, and lower face, but not as much on the cheeks (looks like there are only 2 exercises that directly target the cheeks).

The one thing I don't understand is that for most of her exercises, she indicates that many muscles are involved (rather than one or just a couple)...I'm not sure how she accomplishes that, as in virtually all other exercise programs, you basically work one or two muscles at a time. Perhaps someone with CFF can elaborate...

HTH Smile
cm5597
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Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:12 am      Reply with quote
TheresaMary wrote:
I never saw that chart, that’s brilliant and she drew it herself. I love how it highlights the muscle described, and she gives the break down of which of her exercises work that.

One thing though that I do know is that with FlexEffect, although they say they are targeting a particular muscle, they do acknowledge that often times other muscles come into play. Shawn helped me out one time when I was doing an exercise for my jawline, where he explained to me that when I did a particular movement if I focused on the target muscle, even though the other muscles jumped in, it had a very different sensation than if I did the group of muscles. So I suppose its something that’s applicable to every program out there. Even Maggio’s exercises like Face Contour or Face Widener for example exercise a group of muscles rather than one single muscle.


Sure, in facial exercise, you can never fully and perfectly isolate a muscle...but still, you are mostly working a single muscle or couple muscles. I recall that Deb from FlexEffect said that the other muscles that appear to be working are "just going along for the ride". That's why in Facercise, FlexEffect, and Ageless, for each exercise, they generally only highlight one muscle as being involved (or occasionally, a couple of muscles).

But when doing an eye exercise, Carolyn indicates that the cheek and forehead muscles are also working, and that confuses me....why she thinks a single exercise can engage up to 10+ muscles of the face...Of course, I don't have her program, so maybe that's why I don't get it Smile


TheresaMary wrote:
Here’s a bit from her site that I think answers your questions re group of muscles.
http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/faq/facial-exercise-faq/how-is-sliding-on-the-skin-superior-to-gripping-and-holding
Working Groups of Muscles is Key
I also know that many of the facial exercise programs ask you to "grip" and hold a spot on the face while working the muscles. One reason for this method of exercise has to do with "isolating" the muscle and working it. Isolation exercises are on the way out in bodybuilding, if they aren't gone already. This is an "old-fashioned" approach to body building that was once thought to be the best way to get results.


Okay, this statement is sooooooo wrong. Carolyn clearly does not know what she is talking about here. Isolation exercises are the FOUNDATION of bodybuilding--that's how you build bulk. By this statement, I can tell that she has never been into bodybuilding herself.


Quote:
Many years ago and since the advent of CFF™, it has been found that working "groups" of muscles is more effective in body building and hence, also, facial and neck building.


Yeah, I think the problem is that Carolyn does know something here, but does not quite know enough about exercise physiology to express herself accurately, and hence she is making an incorrect statement, while really intending to say something else.

Isolation exercises are the most effective for building large amounts of muscle. However, compound exercises (which is the technical term for her phrase "working 'groups' of muscles") are more effective in getting a full body workout in a shorter amount of time. That is what I suspect she is trying to say here. I think she means that "Compound exercises are more effective for an efficient full-body workout", as the statement "Compound exercises are the best for bodybuilding" is clearly false.


Quote:
If you want to isolate the muscle, then you need to be able to "grip" that "spot" and anchor the muscle to work it.

Muscles function in groups. Isolation works against function.


I don't think I agree with this statement. In daily life, we use muscles both mostly in isolation and in compound muscle movements. It's a mix of the two. I don't see one as inherently better than the other...they both have their utility, and can be used to different degrees depending on one's goals.

Just my opinions Smile

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Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:48 pm      Reply with quote
cm5597 wrote:
Sure, in facial exercise, you can never fully and perfectly isolate a muscle...but still, you are mostly working a single muscle or couple muscles. I recall that Deb from FlexEffect said that the other muscles that appear to be working are "just going along for the ride". That's why in Facercise, FlexEffect, and Ageless, for each exercise, they generally only highlight one muscle as being involved (or occasionally, a couple of muscles).

But when doing an eye exercise, Carolyn indicates that the cheek and forehead muscles are also working, and that confuses me....why she thinks a single exercise can engage up to 10+ muscles of the face...Of course, I don't have her program, so maybe that's why I don't get it Smile


Actually I have to say that with the 3rd edition of FlexEffect (which I have as do you) there are some exercises which work groups of muscles, for example there is one which works the entire jawline - so they have also evolved their exercises to fit this too. Even with Cheek Press I think it is, they involve every muscle group going, so I don't think its fair to question just Carolyn's program here on that.

cm5597 wrote:
Okay, this statement is sooooooo wrong. Carolyn clearly does not know what she is talking about here. Isolation exercises are the FOUNDATION of bodybuilding--that's how you build bulk. By this statement, I can tell that she has never been into bodybuilding herself.


I'm not sure you can say that is wrong, as I've seen several books that say something similar to what Carolyn is saying here, in fact suggesting that exercises like squats because they involve several muscle groups are more beneficial than doing individual isolation exercises for gaining strength. I'm not sure she's ever said she's been into bodybuilding herself, or why you feel thats important - as she doesn't advertise her program as bodybuilding for the face. Even from what I've read of you on EDS, you disagree with Deb who was a bodybuilder about exercising your face daily, and she was into competitions and all.


cm5597 wrote:
Yeah, I think the problem is that Carolyn does know something here, but does not quite know enough about exercise physiology to express herself accurately, and hence she is making an incorrect statement, while really intending to say something else.

Isolation exercises are the most effective for building large amounts of muscle. However, compound exercises (which is the technical term for her phrase "working 'groups' of muscles") are more effective in getting a full body workout in a shorter amount of time. That is what I suspect she is trying to say here. I think she means that "Compound exercises are more effective for an efficient full-body workout", as the statement "Compound exercises are the best for bodybuilding" is clearly false.


Surely this is only opinion not fact as otherwise the experts would be quoting references. As mentioned, I have seen several books which mention that compound exercises are better because they work the body as a whole in comparison with working muscles in isolation as they argue the body is not designed to work that way.


cm5597 wrote:
Quote:
If you want to isolate the muscle, then you need to be able to "grip" that "spot" and anchor the muscle to work it.

Muscles function in groups. Isolation works against function.


I don't think I agree with this statement. In daily life, we use muscles both mostly in isolation and in compound muscle movements. It's a mix of the two. I don't see one as inherently better than the other...they both have their utility, and can be used to different degrees depending on one's goals.


Could you perhaps provide an example of a muscle working in isolation? I often see them working as a group. Take walking or standing for instance, several muscles are involved, not just one. Even with an activity like walking, there are shifting of weight, balance, lengthening/extension and contraction of calfs, thighs etc, not to mention our buns moving.

cm5597 wrote:
Just my opinions Smile


This is supposed to be a thread where people can gain experience/reviews of people who own Carolyns kit - Carolyn has exceptional customer service so I would suggest you write to her and ask those questions.

Lets get back on track with this thread now, if anyone else owns Carolyn's kit feel free to post reviews here.
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Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:40 pm      Reply with quote
Hey TheresaMary Smile

TheresaMary wrote:
cm5597 wrote:
Sure, in facial exercise, you can never fully and perfectly isolate a muscle...but still, you are mostly working a single muscle or couple muscles. I recall that Deb from FlexEffect said that the other muscles that appear to be working are "just going along for the ride". That's why in Facercise, FlexEffect, and Ageless, for each exercise, they generally only highlight one muscle as being involved (or occasionally, a couple of muscles).

But when doing an eye exercise, Carolyn indicates that the cheek and forehead muscles are also working, and that confuses me....why she thinks a single exercise can engage up to 10+ muscles of the face...Of course, I don't have her program, so maybe that's why I don't get it Smile


Actually I have to say that with the 3rd edition of FlexEffect (which I have as do you) there are some exercises which work groups of muscles, for example there is one which works the entire jawline - so they have also evolved their exercises to fit this too. Even with Cheek Press I think it is, they involve every muscle group going, so I don't think its fair to question just Carolyn's program here on that.


Which exercise are you referring to, that works the entire jawline? I don't recall an exercise in the third edition that works several muscles of the jawline at once.

Also, cheek press targets the buccinators...I don't think there are any other muscles that it targets, but if the technique is not good, then yes, the mouth muscle (orbicularis oris) can jump in...but the *intent* of the exercise is just to focus on the buccinators.


TheresaMary wrote:
cm5597 wrote:
Okay, this statement is sooooooo wrong. Carolyn clearly does not know what she is talking about here. Isolation exercises are the FOUNDATION of bodybuilding--that's how you build bulk. By this statement, I can tell that she has never been into bodybuilding herself.


I'm not sure you can say that is wrong, as I've seen several books that say something similar to what Carolyn is saying here, in fact suggesting that exercises like squats because they involve several muscle groups are more beneficial than doing individual isolation exercises for gaining strength. I'm not sure she's ever said she's been into bodybuilding herself, or why you feel thats important - as she doesn't advertise her program as bodybuilding for the face. Even from what I've read of you on EDS, you disagree with Deb who was a bodybuilder about exercising your face daily, and she was into competitions and all.


Yes, I think there is a distinction here in terminology that is clearer for someone who has been into bodybuilding at a serious level, versus people who are interested in the much broader field of resistance training...the two fields have very different aims and hence training styles.... Smile

When I use the term "bodybuilding", I don't mean resistance training or lifting weight. I use the term "bodybuilding" in the technical sense to mean the sport of building large amounts of muscle. I think the confusion and hence the difference is that you and Carolyn are using the word much more loosely to mean "resistance training", no?

For the sport of bodybuilding, isolation exercises with large weights and low reps are the foundation and core of building large amounts of muscle. But I don't expect most people know this unless they have been into bodybuilding in a serious way...i.e., if you can name a few past Mr. or Mrs. Olympias, you'll know what I mean Smile

For the much more wide-ranging area of weight-training or resistance training, there are a myriad different ways and approaches. Recently, there has been a trend towards more compound exercises in this arena, hence Carolyn's comment, which is not technically correct as she articulated it (because the sport of bodybuilding is different from weight-training), but I know in spirit what she was trying to say instead Smile

I hope what I am trying to say and this distinction is clear Smile

Sorry, not trying to harp on a technical point here, but rather to point out that we still believe isolation exercises with high weight, low reps, and multiple sets **to be best at building muscle**. (Btw, "Strength" is actually a different criterion than "muscle size", and strength athletes do do some different things than bodybuilders.)

So what I am trying to say is in terms of building pure muscle size, isolation resistance-type exercises are still considered the gold standard in the sport of bodybuilding--that isn't going out of style Smile

In terms of just building some muscle in general and going for overall tone, yes, there are a lot of people who favor compound exercises. Totally reasonable and makes sense for many reasons. But there people are not trying to win bodybuilding competitions...that is the difference.


TheresaMary wrote:
cm5597 wrote:
Yeah, I think the problem is that Carolyn does know something here, but does not quite know enough about exercise physiology to express herself accurately, and hence she is making an incorrect statement, while really intending to say something else.

Isolation exercises are the most effective for building large amounts of muscle. However, compound exercises (which is the technical term for her phrase "working 'groups' of muscles") are more effective in getting a full body workout in a shorter amount of time. That is what I suspect she is trying to say here. I think she means that "Compound exercises are more effective for an efficient full-body workout", as the statement "Compound exercises are the best for bodybuilding" is clearly false.


Surely this is only opinion not fact as otherwise the experts would be quoting references. As mentioned, I have seen several books which mention that compound exercises are better because they work the body as a whole in comparison with working muscles in isolation as they argue the body is not designed to work that way.


Sure, I'm sure you've read books extolling the virtues of compound exercises, as I have, too...But the books you are referring to are not books for serious bodybuilders, and that is the distinction here Smile



TheresaMary wrote:
cm5597 wrote:
Quote:
If you want to isolate the muscle, then you need to be able to "grip" that "spot" and anchor the muscle to work it.

Muscles function in groups. Isolation works against function.


I don't think I agree with this statement. In daily life, we use muscles both mostly in isolation and in compound muscle movements. It's a mix of the two. I don't see one as inherently better than the other...they both have their utility, and can be used to different degrees depending on one's goals.


Could you perhaps provide an example of a muscle working in isolation? I often see them working as a group. Take walking or standing for instance, several muscles are involved, not just one. Even with an activity like walking, there are shifting of weight, balance, lengthening/extension and contraction of calfs, thighs etc, not to mention our buns moving.


Sure! When I lift up grocery bags, and carry them home, I'm mostly using my biceps = mostly isolation exercise. If I buy lots of melons and put them in the same bag, sometimes my biceps will be sore the next day, but only my biceps will be sore.

When I walk up the stairs, I use multiple leg muscles = compound exercise.


My point in making this comment is that I don't see isolation exercises as being "against the functioning of the muscle"...Muscles function in so many ways, so I just don't agree with her comment.

HTH Smile

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Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:02 pm      Reply with quote
TheresaMary wrote:
This is supposed to be a thread where people can gain experience/reviews of people who own Carolyns kit - Carolyn has exceptional customer service so I would suggest you write to her and ask those questions.

Lets get back on track with this thread now, if anyone else owns Carolyn's kit feel free to post reviews here.



Sorry, I understand that some people prefer reviews only, while some people like all of the above...

I was only commenting since I know Skincarefreak was looking at other facial exercise programs.

I just wanted to point out to her that it looked like there were only two exercises in CFF that directly target the cheeks....And I am skeptical that the eye exercises additionally work the cheeks muscles as well. As other facial exercise programs do not make such claims, I thought it would be both fair and helpful to point this out.

(And if I am wrong or missing information, I'm sure others with the program will chime in if my suspicions are wrong and will explain why they are wrong.)

Sorry, I did not mean to make such a big deal about this and to open a whole can of worms about different approaches to bodybuilding and resistance training in this thread Confused

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Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:03 pm      Reply with quote
Smile
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Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:35 pm      Reply with quote
cm5597 wrote:
Skincarefreak,

Carolyn now has an interactive chart that shows you all the facial muscles her exercises target on an exercise by exercise basis:

http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/facial-exercises-and-the-muscles-they-activate

This helps show you which muscles her exercises target. Interestingly, her exercises seem to focus a lot on the eyes, forehead, and lower face, but not as much on the cheeks (looks like there are only 2 exercises that directly target the cheeks).

The one thing I don't understand is that for most of her exercises, she indicates that many muscles are involved (rather than one or just a couple)...I'm not sure how she accomplishes that, as in virtually all other exercise programs, you basically work one or two muscles at a time. Perhaps someone with CFF can elaborate...

HTH Smile


CM5597!

Thank you for this. I hadn't even noticed it.
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Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:24 am      Reply with quote
I am pretty sure I got TMJ while doing CFF. I might have opened my mouth too wide during some of the exercises. I am not sure exactly which exercise caused the problem.

I did contact Carolyn about my nose and the overbuild of the mouth. She was really nice, but she couldn't really give me any specific advice since I didn't have any photos to show her. =/ She did tell me that my face will get back to normal in few months. So I am waiting.

But now that I am thinking about it, I really don't know if it was actual overbuild of the mouth or my nasolabial lines just getting worse by extending down to the corners of my mouth. It was weird because my cheeks were getting bigger and higher, but my nasolabial lines were getting worse and I started having sort of an ape look around my mouth? Anyway, that ape look has mostly faded away, but my lower face is looking saggier than before I started doing CFF. Well, I didn't even have that much sag in the lower face area in the first place. So I am still trying to figure out what exactly caused that. I did like how CFF lifted and opened up my eyes though. =)

I don't know, sometimes I am so unhappy with my face now that I am tempted to try other programs or even try CFF again (not including the nose exercises), but I am afraid how it's going to end up looking. And my TMJ will probably get worse too. =/
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Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:49 am      Reply with quote
cm5597 wrote:
Which exercise are you referring to, that works the entire jawline? I don't recall an exercise in the third edition that works several muscles of the jawline at once.

Also, cheek press targets the buccinators...I don't think there are any other muscles that it targets, but if the technique is not good, then yes, the mouth muscle (orbicularis oris) can jump in...but the *intent* of the exercise is just to focus on the buccinators.


If you look at the Cheek Press Exercise, there is a second paragraph where Deb says to engage all the facial muscles and lists chin, eyes and other muscles – so unless I’m very much mistaken (which is of course possible) I would think that’s more than just the buccinators and mouth muscle? One of the new exercises does target all the jawline muscles – as I know I phoned her one time to ask a question and the 3rd edition wasn’t available at that point but she told me about one exercise that targets all what she called I think were accessory muscles that go along the jawline (not limited to triangularis). Think its called Triangularis, where you press in either side of the chin, and then contract everything?

cm5597 wrote:
Yes, I think there is a distinction here in terminology that is clearer for someone who has been into bodybuilding at a serious level, versus people who are interested in the much broader field of resistance training...the two fields have very different aims and hence training styles.... Smile

When I use the term "bodybuilding", I don't mean resistance training or lifting weight. I use the term "bodybuilding" in the technical sense to mean the sport of building large amounts of muscle. I think the confusion and hence the difference is that you and Carolyn are using the word much more loosely to mean "resistance training", no?

For the sport of bodybuilding, isolation exercises with large weights and low reps are the foundation and core of building large amounts of muscle. But I don't expect most people know this unless they have been into bodybuilding in a serious way...i.e., if you can name a few past Mr. or Mrs. Olympias, you'll know what I mean Smile


But then your making yourself an authority on bodybuilding, and I’m still not sure this is correct, as I have at times picked up for my son bodybuilding books, and he’s left them lying around and of course I’ve dipped into reading them and often found several suggestions where they say that the only type of isometric training that can be useful is bicep curls, but even then they add things like the flick of a thumb during the motion and that thus engages other muscles too not just bicep, so I’m still not so sure you can say she is wrong here or its incorrect as its largely due to your interpretation of her wording rather than the actual meaning here. I mean when it boils down to it at the end of the day bodybuilding does encompass both resistance training and lifting of weights if we go really technical about it so its kind of like you say tomatoe and I say tomatoe.

cm5597 wrote:
For the much more wide-ranging area of weight-training or resistance training, there are a myriad different ways and approaches. Recently, there has been a trend towards more compound exercises in this arena, hence Carolyn's comment, which is not technically correct as she articulated it (because the sport of bodybuilding is different from weight-training), but I know in spirit what she was trying to say instead Smile


I know that I’ve seen similar statements to what Carolyn has said in bodybuilding literature that I purchased for my son, so I’m still not so sure you can say its not technically correct, and I’m sure that if there are so many wide ranging approaches, then you cannot limit anything to a set way.


cm5597 wrote:
Sorry, not trying to harp on a technical point here, but rather to point out that we still believe isolation exercises with high weight, low reps, and multiple sets **to be best at building muscle**. (Btw, "Strength" is actually a different criterion than "muscle size", and strength athletes do do some different things than bodybuilders.)

So what I am trying to say is in terms of building pure muscle size, isolation resistance-type exercises are still considered the gold standard in the sport of bodybuilding--that isn't going out of style Smile

In terms of just building some muscle in general and going for overall tone, yes, there are a lot of people who favor compound exercises. Totally reasonable and makes sense for many reasons. But there people are not trying to win bodybuilding competitions...that is the difference.


I’m not sure you can say this with any authority as to no one competiting in bodybuilding competitions isn’t doing compound exercises as you have no way of knowing that for 100% certain. They may be doing a mixture of both isolation and compound, and probably if they are good they would be doing so, but to say they are not doing so I think is misleading as it does make Carolyn out to be wrong, and I’m not so sure she is on this.

cm5597 wrote:
Sure, I'm sure you've read books extolling the virtues of compound exercises, as I have, too...But the books you are referring to are not books for serious bodybuilders, and that is the distinction here Smile


Actually that’s incorrect, my son was really interested in bodybuilding at one point and did start training intensely and did get quite big and was impressive (although he hasn’t maintained it) but he is also younger so his body was probably better able for it.

cm5597 wrote:
Sure! When I lift up grocery bags, and carry them home, I'm mostly using my biceps = mostly isolation exercise. If I buy lots of melons and put them in the same bag, sometimes my biceps will be sore the next day, but only my biceps will be sore.


Using mostly your biceps doesn’t mean your isolating your biceps, it means the biceps might be taking the biggest whack, but it doesn’t mean by an standard that your biceps are the only muscle here, so this is incorrect to say its an isolation exercise isn’t it? Technicalities and all are important as you say, this is a contradiction.
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Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:50 am      Reply with quote
cameronfrye wrote:
I am pretty sure I got TMJ while doing CFF. I might have opened my mouth too wide during some of the exercises. I am not sure exactly which exercise caused the problem.

I did contact Carolyn about my nose and the overbuild of the mouth. She was really nice, but she couldn't really give me any specific advice since I didn't have any photos to show her. =/ She did tell me that my face will get back to normal in few months. So I am waiting.

But now that I am thinking about it, I really don't know if it was actual overbuild of the mouth or my nasolabial lines just getting worse by extending down to the corners of my mouth. It was weird because my cheeks were getting bigger and higher, but my nasolabial lines were getting worse and I started having sort of an ape look around my mouth? Anyway, that ape look has mostly faded away, but my lower face is looking saggier than before I started doing CFF. Well, I didn't even have that much sag in the lower face area in the first place. So I am still trying to figure out what exactly caused that. I did like how CFF lifted and opened up my eyes though. =)

I don't know, sometimes I am so unhappy with my face now that I am tempted to try other programs or even try CFF again (not including the nose exercises), but I am afraid how it's going to end up looking. And my TMJ will probably get worse too. =/



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