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Sat Feb 27, 2010 7:04 am  |
{ Moderator: This thread relates to discussion started on the Skinbiology CP Serum thread found at http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=521246#521246 }
Here is some very exciting info. that I recently received from Dr. Pickart on GHK and Cancer.
Dr. Pickart told me that the GHK molecule was "one of only two" molecules of 1,309 tested that shut down the cancer promoting genes. And is acts at very low levels and is non-toxic to the healthy cells. He now thinks that the copper peptides may be shifting the DNA activities in the body to be more like a younger person which would mean better skin and less cancer.
I took this post from the Skin Biology website.
From Dr. Pickart:
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In Clin Exp Metastasis. 2010 Feb 9. [Epub ahead of print], a paper "A 'metastasis-prone' signature for early-stage mismatch-repair proficient sporadic colorectal cancer patients and its implications for possible therapeutics" by Hong Y, Downey T, Eu KW, Koh PK, Cheah PY (Department f Colorectal Surgery, Singapore General Hospital, Singapore, 169608,Singapore) the authors searched for substances that can reverse expression of those genes involved in metastasis.
To determine gene expression of normal and cancerous cells, they measured RNA produced by cells. To find substances that can reverse expression of those genes involved in metastasis, they used very reliable database of 7000 genome wide expression profiles after treatment of 4 human cell lines with 1309 bioactive substances. Only two substances, GHK and securenine (an alkaloid) from the choice of 1309 were able to quiet down the genes involved in tumor spreading. The authors also mention low toxicity of GHK and the low concentration(1mkM) that produces desired effect. |
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He also told me that he was working with another renowned Bio-Chemist whose name I will not mention at this time on a new 40 page paper on Copper Peptides.
From Dr. Pickart:
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The possible anti-cancer actions of GHK looks fantastic. Gene control is a very new and exciting area. As we get older, our DNA makes fewer health promoting molecules and more oncogenes that promote cancer and more inflammatory molecules.
I think higher tissue copper keeps cells younger. And GHK mediates this.
Plus if we can activate unused adult stem cells that will be the end of the Hayflick Limit. |
................................................This is very exciting news!
Star Model~
| Lacy53 wrote: |
| Star Model wrote: |
I posted over on the EDS Lounge some info from Dr. Pickart on GHK and Cancer Prevention. From what I understand, even when applied topically, CPs penetrate into the body and are very protective internally ....
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I can't find your post in the lounge, but could you explain how you came to the conclusion that topically applied CPs penetrate into the body etc? |
I point blank asked Dr. P if there is any positive effect on the body when applying CPs topically. He said that CPs are absorbed into the skin through the bloodstream and are then converted to GHK. GHK helps to protect the liver, bones, stomach, colon, etc. 
The same way that "FDA-approved chemical sunscreens" are ABSORBED into the body filtering through the liver. Chemical Sunscreens are dangerous and highly carcinogenic. Not just with skin cancer - they are known cancer cell promoters. Quite the opposite of what the FDA professes. Cancer has been on the rise in the US due to overuse of chemical SS.
Physical SS's like Titanium Dioxide and Zinc Oxide are a much better choice and the safe way to go. The FDA is very misleading when it comes to chemical SS which may be causing more harm than good. Cancer seems to be too big of a business for them to be honest about it.
I am not sure of the amount of GHK needed to be protective, but since GHK is naturally occurring in the body and diminishes as we age, from what I understand even a little is beneficial. |
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Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:16 am |
| Maybe it would help you to discuss with Dr. Pickart on his site and see where he's coming from. I'm sure he'd break it down for you. |
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Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:35 am |
| Star Model wrote: |
I too use CPs all over my body - head to toe actually. 
Definite firming and softness are my results. Mangosteen, I also love the Ylang Ylang/Nutmeg Body Lotion (very exotic but pleasant) as well as the Lavender Scent.
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I just wanted to mention that none of the body care products sold by SkinBiology contain GHK-Cu; they all contain hydrolyzed soy protein as the peptide. So I don't think you are getting any of the so-called cancer protection benefits from those products. But your skin may feel nicer. |
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Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:57 am |
| Lacy53 wrote: |
| I just wanted to mention that none of the body care products sold by SkinBiology contain GHK-Cu; they all contain hydrolyzed soy protein as the peptide. So I don't think you are getting any of the so-called cancer protection benefits from those products. But your skin may feel nicer |
If you want to dispute Dr. Pickart's findings, be my guest. But your basis of "I don't think" isn't a very good one.
You must also see nothing wrong with chemical SS? Many do not, but they are being mislead and misinformed. I use it as a reference regarding absorption. |
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Sat Feb 27, 2010 12:08 pm |
| sister sweets wrote: |
Maybe it would help you to discuss with Dr. Pickart on his site and see where he's coming from. I'm sure he'd break it down for you. |
No need for me to discuss it on another forum. I know the difference between a drug and a cosmetic product. I also know the difference between science and marketing. These are cosmetic products, so they will have no systemic effects. Any medical claims are subject to rigorous clinical trials and FDA approval. I know exactly "where he's coming from".
BTW, the study linked to states this:
A ‘metastasis-prone’ signature for early-stage mismatch-repair proficient sporadic colorectal cancer patients and its implications for possible therapeutics
Yi Hong, Thomas Downey, Kong Weng Eu, Poh Koon Koh and Peh Yean Cheah
Journal Clinical and Experimental Metastasis
Received: 26 October 2009 Accepted: 22 January 2010 Published online: 9 February 2010
Abstract
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| Metastasis is the major cause of cancer mortality. We aimed to find a metastasis-prone signature for early stage mismatch-repair proficient sporadic colorectal cancer (CRC) patients for better prognosis and informed use of adjuvant chemotherapy. The genome-wide expression profiles of 82 age-, ethnicity- and tissue-matched patients and healthy controls were analyzed using the Affymetrix U133 Plus 2 array. Metastasis-negative patients have 5 years or more of follow-up. A 10 × 10 two-level nested cross-validation design was used with several families of classification models to identify the optimal predictor for metastasis. The best classification model yielded a 54 gene-set (74 probe sets) with an estimated prediction accuracy of 71%. The specificity, sensitivity, negative and positive predictive values of the signature are 0.88, 0.58, 0.84 and 0.65, respectively, indicating that the gene-set can improve prognosis for early stage sporadic CRC patients. These 54 genes, including node molecules YWHAB, MAP3K5, LMNA, APP, GNAQ, F3, NFATC2, and TGM2, integrate multiple bio-functions in various compartments into an intricate molecular network, suggesting that cell-wide perturbations are involved in metastasis transformation. Further, querying the `Connectivity Map’ with a subset (70%) of these genes shows that Gly-His-Lys and securinine could reverse the differential expressions of these genes significantly, suggesting that they have combinatorial therapeutic effect on the metastasis-prone patients. These two perturbagens promote wound-healing, extracellular matrix remodeling and macrophage activation thus highlighting the importance of these pathways in metastasis suppression for early-stage CRC. |
This has nothing to do with the topical application of GHK-Cu to the skin and the prevention or treatment of cancer. |
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Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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Sat Feb 27, 2010 12:45 pm |
| Lacy53 wrote: |
| This has nothing to do with the topical application of GHK-Cu to the skin and the prevention or treatment of cancer. |
Nobody said that the study was done on topical application. But when I asked Dr. P "How does that fit in with 2nd generation SRCPs?", he responded that when CPs are absored into the bloodstream they are converted into GHK-cu which is naturally occurring in the body and protective. Production declines as we age though.
This was my understanding of how CPs tie in with GHK.
If this holds true, I don't see the point in fighting it. At least we know that CPs and GHK are not harmful to the body as so many FDA approved cosmetic ingredients have turned out to be. |
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Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:04 pm |
| Star Model wrote: |
| Lacy53 wrote: |
| This has nothing to do with the topical application of GHK-Cu to the skin and the prevention or treatment of cancer. |
Nobody said that the study was done on topical application. But when I asked Dr. P "How does that fit in with 2nd generation SRCPs?", he responded that when CPs are absored into the bloodstream they are converted into GHK-cu which is naturally occurring in the body and protective. Production declines as we age though.
This was my understanding of how CPs tie in with GHK.
If this holds true, I don't see the point in fighting it. At least we know that CPs and GHK are not harmful to the body as so many FDA approved cosmetic ingredients have turned out to be. |
This has no tie-in to second generation CPs at all. I see no evidence that CPs are absorbed into the bloodstream in any study; do you know of any?
I am not fighting, just asking people to use their common sense and be discriminating when taking the word of companies who retail cosmetic products in the consumer market.
The FDA does not approved cosmetics ingredients so I do not understand your statement regarding the safety of CPs and GHK. There are many anecdotal reports of people having negative effects from the use of copper peptide products though, even on this forum. |
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Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:28 pm |
I am referring to the FDA approval of toxic chemical sunscreens. Who better than from Dr. Pickart himself to learn about GHK? He is the man who disovered and studied it for 40 years.
I may be wrong about the absorption but that was my understanding from a direct converstion I had with him. I will double check when I speak to him again. |
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Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:43 pm |
| Star Model wrote: |
I am referring to the FDA approval of toxic chemical sunscreens. Who better than from Dr. Pickart himself to learn about GHK? He is the man who disovered and studied it for 40 years.
I may be wrong about the absorption but that was my understanding from a direct converstion I had with him. I will double check when I speak to him again. |
It might be better to discuss "toxic chemical sunscreens" and systemic effects on the human body on new thread, rather than taking this one off-topic. Perhaps you could start one? |
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Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:01 pm |
| Lacy53 wrote: |
| Star Model wrote: |
| Lacy53 wrote: |
| No need for me to discuss it on another forum. I know the difference between a drug and a cosmetic product. I also know the difference between science and marketing. These are cosmetic products, so they will have no systemic effects. Any medical claims are subject to rigorous clinical trials and FDA approval. I know exactly "where he's coming from". |
I am referring to the FDA approval of toxic chemical sunscreens. Who better than from Dr. Pickart himself to learn about GHK? He is the man who disovered and studied it for 40 years.
I may be wrong about the absorption but that was my understanding from a direct converstion I had with him. I will double check when I speak to him again. |
It might be better to discuss "toxic chemical sunscreens" and systemic effects on the human body on new thread, rather than taking this one off-topic. Perhaps you could start one? |
I am not going "off topic" as you suggest. Rather was making a case for absorption.
Chemical Suncreens are toxic to the body when they are absorbed, not when they are applied. CPs also absorb (according to my understanding from an earlier conversation with Dr. Pickart) and go through the bloodstream then through the liver. |
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havana8
Moderator
 
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 3451
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Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:43 am |
| We have just gone through and cleaned up this thread from the sarcastic, snide and condescending comments, none of which are welcome here as they derail sincere discussion and discourage thoughtful comments. All replies related to these instances have been deleted. Thank you to those who reported the situation. |
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Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:21 am |
Dr. Pickart is off "On Holiday" so I have learned. I will try to get his comments on "CPs and absorption" which is how this whole drama erupted.
In the mean time, here's some info. on "Chemical sunscreens and toxicity" found on the SB site from Dr. Pickart's research on the topic:
http://reverseskinaging.com/toxicsunscreens.html
Here's another link to a different page where he talks at length about GHK absorption in the cells:
http://reverseskinaging.com/studies5.html
It is very informative and worth checking out for those who are concerned with chemical toxicity and cancer and how to combat it.
Star Model~ |
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Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:47 am |
| Star Model wrote: |
Dr. Pickart is off "On Holiday" so I have learned. I will try to get his comments on "CPs and absorption" which is how this whole drama erupted.
Here's another link to a different page where he talks at length about GHK absorption in the cells:
http://reverseskinaging.com/studies5.html
Star Model~ |
Thanks for the link. He makes it very clear on the difference between GHK and GHK-Cu. As I stated previously, they are not one in the same thing (even though you seem to use the terms interchangeably).
You may also like to read this study; it makes the distinction even clearer:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11045606 |
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Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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Sun Feb 28, 2010 12:04 pm |
As far as I know GHK and GHK-Cu are one in the same. I think the proper name is GHK-Cu. I will have Dr. Pickart comment on this.
It would be interesting to know how you think you know more than Dr. Pickart on the topic? He is the one who has done all of the research. It's almost like you don't want this to be true?
Thankfully, from the excitement shown by Dr. Pickart backed by his latest research and findings, if it is in fact true, this is good news for everyone!
He is not the only scientist involved in his research. |
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Sun Feb 28, 2010 12:40 pm |
| Star Model wrote: |
As far as I know GHK and GHK-Cu are one in the same. I think the proper name is GHK-Cu. I will have Dr. Pickart comment on this.
It would be interesting to know how you think you know more than Dr. Pickart on the topic? He is the one who has done all of the research. It's almost like you don't want this to be true?
Thankfully, from the excitement shown by Dr. Pickart backed by his latest research and findings, if it is in fact true, this is good news for everyone!
He is not the only scientist involved in his research. |
Very little of the published research studies done on GHK-Cu are "done" by Pickart. If they were, his name would most definitely appear in the list of authors. What I do see is the various websites operated by SkinBiology report the research done by independent researchers. I do not understand why you think these studies are "his research".
Until recently, SkinBiology did not even make a product containing GHK-Cu; that ingredient was under patent protection by ProCyte. Dr. Pickart has not been associated with that company since the '80s.
I do not think I know more that Dr. Pickart about GHK-Cu, nor have I ever said or even implied that. I still don't understand why anyone would be excited about the latest research findings which involve GHK and Colorectal cancer since they have nothing to do with topical application of SkinBiology products (maybe we have a different level of understanding of the whole situation). |
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Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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Sun Feb 28, 2010 12:57 pm |
Yes, we are on completely different levels of understanding. Dr. Pickart happens to know what he is talking about and would not have sent me info regarding GHK and Cancer if it was not pertinent to him.
I cleared my post with him to make sure it was okay.
I don't think he cares all that much about ProCyte anymore. He sold his interest in that company years ago. From what I understand, they are yesterday's news.
The only one who can and clear the air on this is Dr. Pickart himself. I will contact him as soon he is back from vacation. I did not expect a "fire storm" to erupt regarding some very promising news.
Star Model~ |
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Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:00 pm |
| Star Model wrote: |
I point blank asked Dr. P if there is any positive effect on the body when applying CPs topically. He said that CPs are absorbed into the skin through the bloodstream and are then converted to GHK. |
So, does this mean that his 2nd generation CP's are converted back to GHK? If that is the case, why not just use the 1st generation and not the 2nd that has to convert? Sorry if I am confused on this matter! |
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Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:35 pm |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| Star Model wrote: |
I point blank asked Dr. P if there is any positive effect on the body when applying CPs topically. He said that CPs are absorbed into the skin through the bloodstream and are then converted to GHK. |
So, does this mean that his 2nd generation CP's are converted back to GHK? If that is the case, why not just use the 1st generation and not the 2nd that has to convert? Sorry if I am confused on this matter! |
As I recall from reading his book, the SRCPs (2nd generation) have better absorption or something like that for facial skin applications, while GHK was better for surgical applications like wound healing.
Plus I think there was a patent (and timing) issue for some time regarding the 1st generation GHK, and Procyte owned the product rights (which I guess meaned that he had to pay them when he was selling it).
But there was also a lot of chatter as to whether or not SRCPs were really proven, since most of the research was on the 1st generation peptides.
Editing to add: Here is a snippet that mentions both GHK and GHK-cu. They are not the same, but I think that they are often used interchangably from a discussion standpoint(especially on his forum). But his 1st gen products say GHK Copper on the labels.
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GHK, which is generated in damaged tissues, directly accelerates many healing associated properties at concentration of around 10exp(-10)M. Some of the GHK stimulated effects seem to be directly mediated by GHK or GHK-Cu after it obtains copper (II) from albumin. Other actions of GHK and GHK-Cu are likely to arise from GHK-Cu's attraction of wound macrophages and other healing-associated immune cells which, in turn, release families of growth factor proteins appropriate to the repair of the damaged tissue.
http://reverseskinaging.com/studies5.html |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:48 pm |
bethany - you are right on a lot of that information. thanks for bringing that in to the picture here.
riley - I use the 2nd gens because Dr Pickart has said they work better (and because they're also a lot cheaper!) |
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early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:50 pm |
| Lacy53 wrote: |
| I just wanted to mention that none of the body care products sold by SkinBiology contain GHK-Cu; they all contain hydrolyzed soy protein as the peptide. |
Skin Biology has two products that have GHK-Cu in them - Super GHK (Serum and Cream)contains it:
Super GHK-Copper Serum: Purified water, hydroxyethylcellulose, glycerin, Copper Tripeptide-1 (GHK-Cu), propylene glycol (and) diazolidinyl urea (and) methylparaben (and) propylparaben, polysorbate 20, allantoin, tocophersolan (Vitamin E), glycine, aloe barbadensis leaf juice (aloe vera) gel, fragrance.
| Quote: |
| So I don't think you are getting any of the so-called cancer protection benefits from those products. But your skin may feel nicer. |
Even though there are only 2 products offered at SB that have GHK-Cu in them, Dr Pickart has always said that the 2nd generation CPs work like the 1st generation CPs, even better. I take this to mean that the same reverse expression of the genes involved in metastasi affected by GHK-Cu can also be affected by 2nd gen CPs. Even if not, just the fact that the GHK-Cu CPs can do such good and that the 2nd gen CPs are so related to them(and act similiarly) is a very good thing.
I would say Dr Pickart concurs on this by his making the statement that 2nd gen CPs will “act like GHK-Cu in the skin” and other statements that 2nd gen CPs act like GHK-Cu. He has made many of these on his forum. |
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early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:54 pm |
| Lacy52 wrote: |
| I do not think I know more that Dr. Pickart about GHK-Cu, nor have I ever said or even implied that. I still don't understand why anyone would be excited about the latest research findings which involve GHK and Colorectal cancer since they have nothing to do with topical application of SkinBiology products (maybe we have a different level of understanding of the whole situation). |
I, for one, am excited about hearing this news about GHK and cancer suspression. CPs have tons of studies showing many uses on healing and skin remodeling.
In reference to your saying that the GHK and GHK-Cu being completely different (possibly hidden in the other thread), Let me say that I will use the term ‘GHK’ for ‘GHK-Cu’ interchangeably, mainly because it’s easier to type. I’ve also never had anyone question my use of it. Most people know what is being referred to when the term ‘GHK’ is used in connection with posts on copper peptides.
To get down to the gist of it - GHK is a human peptide found in our blood and activates a remodeling process during tissue breakdown. GHK has a “high affinity for copper 2+ and forms of complex GHK-Cu “(Dr Pickart’s discovery). He says “these 2 molecules activate the remodeling process”.
Dr Pickart says that both GHK-Cu and 2nd generation CPs “transfer copper to molecules” needed for wound healing and that the CPs in CP Serum (and other 2nd gen CPs) will “act like GHK-Cu in the skin.”
Findings made in studies of GHK-Cu have found it stimulates healing and on ‘aged humans’, it tightens skin, improves elasticity and firmness, reduces fines lines, wrinkles, photo damage and hyperpigmentation as well as improving hair transplants and quite a few other uses posted here.
Dr Pickart goes to great lengths to explain his studies on his website. I do wish he could simplify them for the average lay person, though. I will believe what he tells us because of all the work he goes through to prove his studies, even though I find most of those explanations a bit too much to take in.
I think it is great news that he has found another use of his GHK-Cu. I’m sure a supplement is in the works. What started as a discovery for wound healing has led to skin and hair renewal and now a cancer treatment?
In the meantime, I will continue to use the 2nd gen CPs for my skin care as I have anecdotal proof that they work for me! Any additional things(like a reverse expression of cancer genes) is just an extra bonus to me. |
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early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Sun Feb 28, 2010 7:17 pm |
I am excited also.
Dr. Pickart is clearly a trailblazer and front runner in the field of Copper Peptides. We are fortunate that we may have involvement personally from him and learn current research information.
Copper Peptide research has been his baby for a long time. The newest information about cancer suppression is worth considering when you examine the potential with regards to the effects of MMP's, remodeling and wound healing. MMP's hold a particular interest for me as they are a significant part of the dental destruction process also.
I can hardly wait to put my Skin Signals on tonight! |
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Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:40 pm |
| Thank you Bethany and Foxe for both of your explanations. I definitely think this is an interesting topic, so I hope the discussion continues! |
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Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:58 pm |
| I expect it will continue Riley and I hope those that are truly interested stay tuned. |
_________________
Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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