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Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:08 pm  |
Guess what Ladies!!! I did it myself.
Yes I like Obagi, but I don't love the price. A friend works at one of those big labs that do custom formulations. He told me that most of it is just tweaking formulas- Adding little changes here and there so that a company can say it's a custom formula. He gave me info on a website that gave me instructions on how to do lotions myself. I scouted different websites. It took a month, but I did it! I made a facial lotion like Exfoderm for around $6. I made something akin to Blender and Clear for around $10. And...I make 32 ounces of each. Not 2 ounces like most companies gives us. I am so excited. I was prompted to do this when I couldn't get a response from a poster on the board about where she was getting better priced Obagi on Ebay. So, I decided to go hunting. By the way, I found that some of the ingredients in the Obagi cleanser, Clear and Blender were kind of iffy on safety. Obagi is not the only culprit however. Many, many companies use Sodium Laryl Sulfate, sodium metabisulfites, parabens, etc. I learned a lot of stuff I didn't know. I still ended up with paraben in my mix because it is a microbe inhibitor. It's real name is methylparaben. Thank God for the internet !!!!
By the way, I have been using the stuff for two weeks now and love it. I mostly love that I won't ever pay $200 for products again. I even made some foot scrub  |
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Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:24 am |
| feelfree, what is the name of this website with instructions? |
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Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:57 am |
| cool I'de love to hear about that. |
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Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:19 am |
No problem.
The best two websites I found are The Personal Formulator and Special Chem. I don't know if we are allowed to post websites, but just in case, here they are- personalformulator and specialchem4cosmetics. Just put a dot com behind both. Oh there is also a cosmetics formulation book on Amazon for $200. No way, but I'll see if I can find it in the library.
I found unitconversion (dot) org to help me with my conversions.
What I like best about these is that both give you receipes for starting out on your own. But even better, there is a lot of eductation on the sites. You'll learn about solvents, surfactants, thickners, etc. You can even type in what you want (look at the ingredient list on your favorite product) and find suppliers.
Oh and I had no idea that between 80 and 90% of most of the products that I have been paying big bucks for are comprised of water-purified water.
Anyway, I found a lot of other websites too, after I started searching for good prices on the raw ingredients. You can even find companies that will sell you lotion bases to which you can add what you like. Many will give you hints on percentages to use. That is the trick. You must use the right percentage of ingredients for safety and efficacy.
I love what I've been able to do. Even found that it is Lactic acid that gives the skin that special glow. Glycolic alone doesn't do it. No wonder ancient Egyptians used to bathe in sour milk-it was for the glow they got from the lactic acid!!
Have fun and please let me know how it goes. |
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Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:23 am |
| feelfree wrote: |
| I made a facial lotion like Exfoderm for around $6. I made something akin to Blender and Clear for around $10. |
So, you are making something that is "similar" to these 2 products? What are your recipes for each of them? And, where did you get the Hydroquinone for the Clear/Blender product you made? I find that the ingredients in Obagi are there for a reason, even the so called "bad" ingredients, most of them are used for penetrating the product into your skin, so you can get results from the products. I would be curious to see the recipes you have for your "dupes" to see how they compare to the actual product. |
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Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:23 am |
Hi Rileygirl. I didn't make my "dupes" as you call them for to impress you or the next guy or girl. I made them because I didn't want to keep paying a small fortune. Fortunately for me, my griping and complaining lead a friend to tell me about how his company formulates. Well, I don't need thousands of this or that, nor to I have the money for that kind of thing. I also was inspired by watching the lady who founded Carol's Daughter. She's been on Oprah because she has a celebrity following. I'm no dummy, so I figured if others could do it, I could too. And there isn't one product that cannot be copied. Obagi has things like Complex 272, which is exclusive to them, but one can find other saponins to enhance product penetration. I learned so much that I wish I'd known this stuff 20 years ago. I would have gone into the cosmetics biz.
You can find cosmetic grade hydroquinone on the net and from a place called garden of wisdom. It is toxic though. That's what made me wonder about the wisdom of using it for 18 weeks, but unfortunately, there isn't any other really effective way to get rid of hyperpigmentation than hydroquinone. Any hydroquinone should be cosmetics grade, not photo grade. It should say USP.
Also, one of those sites gives you a list of name brand products that include the ingredient you are searching for. For instance, the Obagi cleanser has something called Sodium Lauroyl Oat Amino Acids. The site will list other name brands with this same ingredient.
Also, I like thegoodhuman because it gives product safety info. |
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Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:41 am |
| feelfree wrote: |
Hi Rileygirl. I didn't make my "dupes" as you call them for to impress you or the next guy or girl. I made them because I didn't want to keep paying a small fortune. Fortunately for me, my griping and complaining lead a friend to tell me about how his company formulates. Well, I don't need thousands of this or that, nor to I have the money for that kind of thing. I also was inspired by watching the lady who founded Carol's Daughter. She's been on Oprah because she has a celebrity following. I'm no dummy, so I figured if others could do it, I could too. And there isn't one product that cannot be copied. Obagi has things like Complex 272, which is exclusive to them, but one can find other saponins to enhance product penetration. I learned so much that I wish I'd known this stuff 20 years ago. I would have gone into the cosmetics biz.
You can find cosmetic grade hydroquinone on the net and from a place called garden of wisdom. It is toxic though. That's what made me wonder about the wisdom of using it for 18 weeks, but unfortunately, there isn't any other really effective way to get rid of hyperpigmentation than hydroquinone. Any hydroquinone should be cosmetics grade, not photo grade. It should say USP.
Also, one of those sites gives you a list of name brand products that include the ingredient you are searching for. For instance, the Obagi cleanser has something called Sodium Lauroyl Oat Amino Acids. The site will list other name brands with this same ingredient.
Also, I like thegoodhuman because it gives product safety info. |
Sorry, feelfree. I think you may have taken my post the wrong way. My intention was NOT to offend you at all. I didn't know what else to call the products that you made.
This is very interesting information, and I really would love to see your recipes. They may help the next guy/gal who would also like to follow what you have done. |
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Thu Apr 01, 2010 1:33 pm |
I also found this site to be full on info on suppliers - chemicalregister dot com.
...And you'll have to dissove the HQ in cetyl alcohol since it's form is crystalline. Good luck ladies!
By the way, I should have said that most of the products I have been paying big bucks for are comprised of 80 to 90% water. Imagine $65 for two ounces of clear and its mostly water The trick is that they found a formula that works in concert with other items to get the results most people desire--and they deserve to be compensated. I am just not willing to continue to pay big bucks forever. I do love the face cleanser though. Haven't quite gotten that right. Would like one with the dyes however. Makes my eyes water. |
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Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:00 pm |
Tips on making HQ cream. They say to dissolve in propylene glycol instead of cetyl alchol.
Taken from dermatology.cdlib.org/rxderm-archives/depigmentation
Kligman's original forumula was indeed:
Hydroquinone powder 5%
Dexamethasone powder 0.1%
Tretinoin powder 0.1%
Hydrophilic ung qs ad 60gm
The reference is O.H. Mills and A.M. Kligman, J. Soc. cosmet. Chem., 1978,
29, 147.
There are of course other variations. One pharmacist I know dissolves the HQ
powder in propylene glycol prior to mixing in hydrocortisone powder,
tretinoin powder, and then blending with Unibase cream.
I credit Kligman with all variations of the concept of hydroquinone,
tretinioin, steroid creams. The exact method of preparation of what I was
using with great success was combining in order
Water 3ml
Hydroquinone powder (Kodak) 5gm
Retin A 0.05% cream (DNS) 15gm
Lidex cream (DNS) 15gm
Eucerin cream (DNS) qs ad 50 gm
The HQ is dissolved in the water first, then the creams are combined, and
finally all are mixed thourougly by hand. This makes 50gm of a very nice
stable bleaching cream which emulsifies nicely. The fluocinonide content is
0.015% and use is carefully monitored by giving the patient 10gm jars at a
time. I have never seen atrophy or steroid induced rosacea from use of this,
but it is a concern of course. The patient is instructed to apply at hs and
use high SPF sunscreen every AM. The advantages are: 1) Patients love it, a
prescription made just for them by the dermatologist, and they don't have to
pay for it. NO prescription cost to the patient 2) minimal cost to the
dermatologist since ingredients are free samples exept for the HQ powder
which is inexpensive 3) very individualized treatment with control of supply
by the dermatologist. The problem is that samples of Lidex cream (DNS) are
no longer available, and I have had problems with the emulsification of other
steroid creams (they tend to separate in a few days). Horror of horrors, I
may actually have to buy ingredients?
All of this raises the question: how many dermatolgists and pharmacists are
doing traditional compounding? What are favorite recipes for various things?
Is traditional compounding becoming a lost art?
Walter H. Wood, M.D.
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In our setting, we have tried from low potency: hydrocortisone to mid
potency fluocinonide or betamethasone combination in our bleaching
preparation. We find the combination hydroquinone + Tretinoin .05 +
hydrocortisone to be the most effective in terms of effect and cost.
Hydrocortisone is cheaper in Manila. Lately we are trying to use desonide
cream (DesOwen) to see if it is better than hydrocortisone.
In regards to separation in your Lidex E, how to you prepare your
Hydroquinone powder? Do you use propylene glycol to dissolve it? It might
be the diluent that is reacting with the emollient base of Lidex E.
Jonathan Yu, MD
Skin & Cancer Foundation
Makati, Philippines
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Perhaps I should try propylene glycol instead of water. There does seem to
be something very unique about the emulsification of regular Lidex cream that
made everything work. Mixing already optimized creams is definitely tricky.
Walter H. Wood, M.D.
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Sat Apr 03, 2010 6:28 am |
Hi feelfree,
I can't believe you managed to do it and it worked. It's brilliant.
Is it complicated or difficult to measure the right quantities of ingredients? How precise does it have to be, and is their any bad side effects if you get it slightly wrong?
Would love to try it but am scared I'll mess it up. |
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Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:41 pm |
GOW (Garden of Wisdom) does not sell HQ as an ingredient, nor do they use it in any of their finished products.
Your assertion that GOW was a supplier of HQ makes me question most of your posts. |
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Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:49 pm |
| tmeyer66 wrote: |
GOW (Garden of Wisdom) does not sell HQ as an ingredient, nor do they use it in any of their finished products.
Your assertion that GOW was a supplier of HQ makes me question most of your posts. |
It really makes one wonder why some post things like this, it's almost scary isn't it?  |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:52 pm |
| tmeyer66 wrote: |
GOW (Garden of Wisdom) does not sell HQ as an ingredient, nor do they use it in any of their finished products.
Your assertion that GOW was a supplier of HQ makes me question most of your posts. |
http://www.gardenofwisdom.com/catalog/item/4019956/3956814.htm
???
I'm not sure I'm daring enough to try to make this stuff, but a quick check validates the info posted. |
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Sat Apr 03, 2010 5:05 pm |
| Surprising that they sell it! I am afraid I wouldn't want to make anything using such a potent ingredient personally. I assumed that tmeyer66 checked GOW, maybe just didn't find it? |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sun Apr 04, 2010 11:37 am |
| You are correct, DM. I didn't find it. I know Markey doesn't use HQ in the lightening or brightening finished products that she formulates. Considering that HQ is banned in some countries, it truly scares me that some are formulating with it as a raw ingredient. It's like Rileygirl stated earlier - Obagi knows what they are doing. They know the proper formulations and techniques. Why risk permanent damage with such a potent ingredient? |
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Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:44 pm |
tmeyer66,
I totally agree, some ingredients are best left in the hands of professional formulators, not DIY'ers. I certainly wouldn't think of trying to mess with it myself. |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:57 pm |
feelfree
I cannot believe I am paying for water! That is awful! Thanks for posting this information - I am definitely going to look in to it. Happy mixing! |
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Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:26 pm |
| alexes wrote: |
feelfree
I cannot believe I am paying for water! That is awful! Thanks for posting this information - I am definitely going to look in to it. Happy mixing! |
Read the labels on even the "High End" serums and creams and ingredient one (highest content) is aqua/water that is what you pay for most of the time, but the majority of actives aren't used in percentages above 10% or lower. Good luck formulating this and be careful! |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:11 pm |
Tmeyer and Darkmoon- Gee I wish I could say that I care what you believe. For instance, I can't believe some of the things people say without first checking their facts. How dare you call someone a liar because you can't find something that someone else did manage to find. There are people who shouldn't cross the street alone. If it's too much for you, don't do it. By all means pay and be happy.
And by the way, I directed my friend to this site. He smiled. Know what his company charges for a 2 ounce jar of HQ cream? $3.25 !!!!
That price includes: jar, lid, innner disc, 2 oz of skin lightener and silk screening. Of course, you have to buy a minimum of 2000 jars, but still.
So again, please keep paying and be happy. For those of use with resouces to get help to do it ourselves, let us. Live and let live. I can see that with some of you people on this forum, no good deed goes unpunished. Sheesh. |
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Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:37 pm |
| Instead of simply moving the thread, why not just delete it please? That would be better in my humble opinion. |
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Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:07 pm |
| feelfree wrote: |
And by the way, I directed my friend to this site. He smiled. Know what his company charges for a 2 ounce jar of HQ cream? $3.25 !!!!
That price includes: jar, lid, innner disc, 2 oz of skin lightener and silk screening. Of course, you have to buy a minimum of 2000 jars, but still.
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So are you saying we should buy the HQ cream from your friend? Or are you suggesting that people whip this up at home on their own? Since most people don't really want 2,000 jars of HQ cream, do you have any idea what a per unit price would be? And finally, do you know if it is compatible with tretinoin (since I am assuming this is to be used in place of Obagi Blender). |
_________________
Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:19 pm |
| feelfree wrote: |
| Instead of simply moving the thread, why not just delete it please? That would be better in my humble opinion. |
They moved the thread because it belonged on the DIY forum to begin with. |
_________________
No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:30 pm |
FeelFree, I am a little mystified by the hostility. Maybe you'll get a better reception here in DIY, where people are used to concocting their own potions. As you point out in your initial post, most products are very inexpensive to produce.
Anyway, thanks for introducing this particular topic. It spurred me to do some research into the research. Fascinating stuff. |
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Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:13 am |
Lacy,
No, I am not suggesting that someone go to a company and buy that many jars. I certainly don't have the money to do it, but to each her own. If someone is well off enough to spend that kind of cash, go for it. And there is no smaller quantity you can buy than 2000 jars. Who needs that much stuff to sit around and go bad?? I'd rather make mine a bit at a time.
I was just giving what he told me as an example of just how much we overpay for products. Not just skin stuff, but furniture, clothing, GASOLINE
I am astounded by the negativity and ignorance I've seen here and will not post again.
Good luck to all of you. |
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Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:58 pm |
Hi,
I usually only post on the do-it-yourself -DIY- thread... and I've come across this post... a bit surprised at the defensive language... Don't understand it really, as here we all share all sorts of DIY creams, use of all sorts of different items (safetox, vaculifter, AALS, etc) and other non orthodox procedures...
I would be very interested in knowing the "recipe" for using the Hidroquinone as an equivalent to Obagi (never used it by the way but tempted). I do use a cream for lighting my dark spots with Hidroquinone though. As far as I know there has been no problem in sharing recipes in this thread of DIY. |
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