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Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:40 am |
Hi! I was wondering if any of you lovely ladies could help me! I'm really on the fence of what do next with my skin. I know I want to have some sort of laser done. Probably the Pearl, but I need help deciding what products to use in the meantime.
I want to back track a little bit and explain how I got to my current situation. I used to use Retin-A. Actually when I think about it I was over using it! My skin started to get broken capillaries around the cheeks. I asked Dr. Baumann and she stated that yes Retin-A can cause broken capillaries. Then I got this mind set that Retin A wasn't good for me. Yeah it probably wasn't good because I was over using it! Then I stopped Retin-A and my skin hated that. I had the worst cystic acne ever!
Then I starting using 302. The Acne wash was a life safer it got rid of all of my Acne! I've tried the 302 drops, Lighting drops (Vitamin C) and the Acne Serum. The problem is from the Acne I'm left with some scars and I still have broken caps. Needless to say I do like 302 but I think my skin needs something else.
My primary issues are scars, broken capillaries (redness around those areas), and pink marks left over from Acne. The pink marks have been there for about a year. By the way I have dry and sensitive skin.
I'm thinking about ordering the NIA24 strengthening complex and the Intensive Recovery complex. The 302 Acne Serum contains retinyl acetate and it was alright to use with my skin. So I figured the NIA Strengthening Complex would probably be alright with my skin. I was also going to order some Squalane for my dry skin. I was also going to ordering the La Roche-Posay Active C with 5% ascorbic Acid. The 302 Vitamin C contains tetraheyl-deylasorbate. I haven't had any problems with this product being too harsh. I know ascorbic acid is stronger but I figure I may have some luck with that.
Now this is where I have the real question should I try an Acid product? I've had real problems with scrubs being too harsh for my skin. So I'm scared it's going to be too harsh for me. But like Keliu explained to me it may help strength my skin! I used a muslin cloth on my face last night. When I woke up this morning my face was red but not very irritated. I was thinking about ordering either the 40% Lactic Acid, NCN triple Enzyme Peel, or the PTR unwrinkle pads.
I just wanted to say I have no intentions of using these products all at once lol. Slowly integrating them into my routine.
So ladies if you have any suggestions or comments I would very much appreciate your input! If you have made it this far Congrats! I'm sorry it was quite a read!
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Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:14 am |
Keliu here! Sorry you haven't had any other answers from anyone else, hopefully, someone else will chime in.
First of all, I'm not convinced that Retin-A causes broken capillaries. I've actually read that Retin-A can help with broken caps - that has certainly been my experience. I used to have a face like a road map. Admittedly, I've had several IPL treatments, but I don't think that RA has made them worse. But that's just me - I'm no expert on this and besides, everyone's skin reacts differently.
I'm not much of a skincare brand junkie, so I tend to stay away from all the big brands and just do my own thing. So, obviously, I can't recommend anything. However, I do recommend using an acid product - maybe Glycolic. Start on this before you progress to doing any acid peels. If you are planning on having a Pearl Laser, the clinician will probably suggest you use an acid product for a couple of months beforehand. So build up your acids slowly. After your skin is used to the GA cream, you could try a simple peel. Maybe, the NCN Pumpkin Peel which is very easy to do. HTH.
What percentage RA were you using? It's always best to start with a low percentage and if your skin has a reaction you can always apply it every other day or every two days. |
_________________ Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:02 am |
I do believe Retin A causes broken caps, as well as stronger acids, like glycolic, making the caps worse - at least that has been my experience. Interestingly the only good thing I can say about 302 is that it diminished my broken caps!
I have been looking in to "natural" products and have come across a few things that supposedly help with the broken caps such as chamomile, rose, and helichrysum. For the acids I personally would stick to a more gentle one like lactic acid for exfoliation. |
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Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:27 am |
Retin-A definitely made my capillaries more visible (I don't believe it causes them, but the thinning of the epidermis makes them more prominent).
Since stopping it a couple of months ago my capillaries are a lot less noticeable. |
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Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:53 am |
Well, I'm going to disagree. I think my skin has thickened up substantially since I've been using Retin-A (approx 3 years). Isn't that what it's supposed to do - increase collagen and elastin? Yes, the skin does peel/flake at first, but after a while the peeling stops as your skin adjusts to the RA. However, if you are exfoliating too aggressively, then your skin will become red, irritated and sore - if that happens then obviously you must cut back on the use of acids.
I also don't think you can thin the skin by exfoliation - the skin continually regenerates itself. It is not finite - it is our body's largest organ. Think of someone who constantly does hard labour - their hands will be calloused, the skin reinforces itself against the constant abrasion. The same goes for someone who walks around in bare feet - their skin doesn't wear away, it becomes thicker.
There's some good info on broken caps here - this site actually recommends RA as a treatment:
http://www.treatment-skincare.com/Questions/Broken-Capillaries/Treatments.html
According to all the doctors that I have ever spoken to, IPL is the only quick fix for broken caps. This is because the laser actually zaps the capillary and disperses the blood. There are topicals that promise such things as strengthening the capillary walls etc, but in my experience, no topical will get rid of broken caps. Even after IPL they can return - especially the stubborn ones around the nose. |
_________________ Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:01 am |
Keliu wrote: |
Keliu here! Sorry you haven't had any other answers from anyone else, hopefully, someone else will chime in.
First of all, I'm not convinced that Retin-A causes broken capillaries. I've actually read that Retin-A can help with broken caps - that has certainly been my experience. I used to have a face like a road map. Admittedly, I've had several IPL treatments, but I don't think that RA has made them worse. But that's just me - I'm no expert on this and besides, everyone's skin reacts differently.
I'm not much of a skincare brand junkie, so I tend to stay away from all the big brands and just do my own thing. So, obviously, I can't recommend anything. However, I do recommend using an acid product - maybe Glycolic. Start on this before you progress to doing any acid peels. If you are planning on having a Pearl Laser, the clinician will probably suggest you use an acid product for a couple of months beforehand. So build up your acids slowly. After your skin is used to the GA cream, you could try a simple peel. Maybe, the NCN Pumpkin Peel which is very easy to do. HTH.
What percentage RA were you using? It's always best to start with a low percentage and if your skin has a reaction you can always apply it every other day or every two days. |
Thank you for you reply! I used Retin-A on and off in my teens. The last time I used it I was using the 0.05%. I read this:
# Try this trick, a favorite among dermatologists: Apply a thick coat of your usual retinoid (like Retin-A, for example) to your skin seven to 10 days prior to a big event. Your skin will be red and start to peel about four to five days later, but by day six or seven, you will have a noticeable glow. Essentially, it's like a mild at-home peel. Try this trick a few weeks prior to the wedding to see how you react, though the week of a big event should not be the first time you try this.
# If you've had a chemical peel in the past - and reacted well - that can also be a great way to reveal fresh, glowing skin. Peels do cause redness, though, so schedule your appointment at least a week before the big da
So basically I was slathering my face in Retin A like a dumb you know what. I think when I stopped using it, it was probably a shock to my skin since I was using it too much. That's probably why my skin broke out in cystic Acne.
I like the idea of using a cream product containing GA or LA acid. Actually my mom gave me some of her cream to use. I found out it contains LA and my skin seemed to be alright.
I've read that Retin-A can cause Broken caps, but I've also read that it can help! That's why I thought a product with Retinyl Palmitate or Retinol might help to firm up those areas with broken caps. |
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Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:05 am |
rileygirl wrote: |
I do believe Retin A causes broken caps, as well as stronger acids, like glycolic, making the caps worse - at least that has been my experience. Interestingly the only good thing I can say about 302 is that it diminished my broken caps!
I have been looking in to "natural" products and have come across a few things that supposedly help with the broken caps such as chamomile, rose, and helichrysum. For the acids I personally would stick to a more gentle one like lactic acid for exfoliation. |
Thank you for your reply! As I told Keliu I've read that Retin-A can help or cause broken caps.
I've been trying to stick with natural skincare as well. But right now I just want something that works!
I've also read that Heilchrysum can help broken caps! I've also read that Vitamin K can be good for strengthening the area with broken caps. I forgot to say I was also thinking about trying Capiderm.
Let me know if you try Heilchrysum! |
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Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:07 am |
Josh wrote: |
Retin-A definitely made my capillaries more visible (I don't believe it causes them, but the thinning of the epidermis makes them more prominent).
Since stopping it a couple of months ago my capillaries are a lot less noticeable. |
Thanks for your reply! I noticed that you use AHA. Have you had any success with the AHA firming up the skin around the broken caps? |
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Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:11 am |
Keliu wrote: |
Well, I'm going to disagree. I think my skin has thickened up substantially since I've been using Retin-A (approx 3 years). Isn't that what it's supposed to do - increase collagen and elastin? Yes, the skin does peel/flake at first, but after a while the peeling stops as your skin adjusts to the RA. However, if you are exfoliating too aggressively, then your skin will become red, irritated and sore - if that happens then obviously you must cut back on the use of acids.
I also don't think you can thin the skin by exfoliation - the skin continually regenerates itself. It is not finite - it is our body's largest organ. Think of someone who constantly does hard labour - their hands will be calloused, the skin reinforces itself against the constant abrasion. The same goes for someone who walks around in bare feet - their skin doesn't wear away, it becomes thicker.
There's some good info on broken caps here - this site actually recommends RA as a treatment:
http://www.treatment-skincare.com/Questions/Broken-Capillaries/Treatments.html
According to all the doctors that I have ever spoken to, IPL is the only quick fix for broken caps. This is because the laser actually zaps the capillary and disperses the blood. There are topicals that promise such things as strengthening the capillary walls etc, but in my experience, no topical will get rid of broken caps. Even after IPL they can return - especially the stubborn ones around the nose. |
Well I've also read that IPL is the only thing that can actually get rid of broken caps. I read that certain topical can help but can't zap them like the IPL. |
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Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:16 am |
So my skin is bright freaking red today. It was red yesterday but I thought it was due to the Muslin Cloth. I've been using the cerave cream and cleanser. I used to use the cleanser without any problems. I wonder if the cream is irritating my skin. Or if it's from the freaking cloth.
Here are the ingredients:
Ingredients
Purified Water , Glycerin , Ceteareth-20 , Cetearyl Alcohol , Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride , Behentrimonium Methosulfate , Cetearyl Alcohol , Cetyl Alcohol , Ceramide 3 , Ceramide 6-11 , Ceramide 1 , Hyaluronic Acid , Cholesterol , Petrolatum , Dimethicone , Potassium Phosphate , Dipotassium Phosphate , Sodium Lauroyl Lactylate , Disodium EDTA , Phenoxyethanol , Methylparaben , Propylparaben , Phytosphingosine , Carbomer , Xanthan Gum
On another note: I've always thought that acids were always more harsh than manual exfoliation. Now I'm beginning to think that manual exfoliation is bad for someone with broken caps. I've always read that microdermabrasion is bad for someone with broken caps. Any thoughts on this? |
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Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:36 am |
Here is a picture of my skin on the cheek area. It looks a lot worst than it really is. But today it's very irritated!
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Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:45 am |
SCJ, your skin looks very irritated. Just my 2 cents here but I would stop everything and only use an oil until your skin heals. Maybe try Emu or squalane (the olive one, sorry I don't know correct spelling off the top of my head!). My skin was extremely irritated and bright red along with dry patches and everything burned. I alternated emu oil and squalane and my skin calmed down in about 2 days. I would definitely stop everything you are using at present and only introduce 1 thing in at a time. That way you will know what is bugging your skin. Are you using the muslin cloth lightly or are you being rough with it? |
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Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:55 am |
rileygirl wrote: |
SCJ, your skin looks very irritated. Just my 2 cents here but I would stop everything and only use an oil until your skin heals. Maybe try Emu or squalane (the olive one, sorry I don't know correct spelling off the top of my head!). My skin was extremely irritated and bright red along with dry patches and everything burned. I alternated emu oil and squalane and my skin calmed down in about 2 days. I would definitely stop everything you are using at present and only introduce 1 thing in at a time. That way you will know what is bugging your skin. Are you using the muslin cloth lightly or are you being rough with it? |
You know I think your right! Right now I have Mac Oil. I was trying to find a shop around here that I can purchase Hemp Oil from. I used that in the past and it seemed to help with my dry skin. I'm planning on ordering some Squalane oil and I'll look into Emu Oil! I just haven't ordered anything yet because I'm procrastinating. lol
I was actually using it really lightly! Maybe my skin just doesn't like that beeping thing! Sorry I try to find some humor in all of this! |
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Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:27 am |
Hi Skincarejunkie
Your skin does look sore.Im wondering whether its a combination of acne,and or rosacea with broken caps also.My poor husband suffers with all these and he got rid of his capillaries round his nose and on his cheeks with six sessions of IPL.It really did work. For his acne he is now on a 6 months course of antibiotics to really stop the reaccuring infection and it really is starting to work.Perhaps you need a stronger treatment and not just focusing on skincare. |
_________________ Trying to reflect on the outside how i feel on the inside which is 18. |
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Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:39 am |
Thoughtful wrote: |
Hi Skincarejunkie
Your skin does look sore.Im wondering whether its a combination of acne,and or rosacea with broken caps also.My poor husband suffers with all these and he got rid of his capillaries round his nose and on his cheeks with six sessions of IPL.It really did work. For his acne he is now on a 6 months course of antibiotics to really stop the reaccuring infection and it really is starting to work.Perhaps you need a stronger treatment and not just focusing on skincare. |
Thanks for your reply! I'm glad your husband has found an answer! I don't really suffer from acne anymore. I get a few pimples here and there. You may be right, messing around with skincare might be a waste! |
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Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:04 pm |
SkinCareJunkie wrote: |
Josh wrote: |
Retin-A definitely made my capillaries more visible (I don't believe it causes them, but the thinning of the epidermis makes them more prominent).
Since stopping it a couple of months ago my capillaries are a lot less noticeable. |
Thanks for your reply! I noticed that you use AHA. Have you had any success with the AHA firming up the skin around the broken caps? |
I've not noticed any firming, but for a 40yo who was a sun-worshipper my skin is in remarkable condition so I really wouldn't expect to see any.
(excuse the goofy smile ) |
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Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:06 pm |
Keliu wrote: |
Well, I'm going to disagree. I think my skin has thickened up substantially since I've been using Retin-A (approx 3 years). Isn't that what it's supposed to do - increase collagen and elastin? Yes, the skin does peel/flake at first, but after a while the peeling stops as your skin adjusts to the RA. However, if you are exfoliating too aggressively, then your skin will become red, irritated and sore - if that happens then obviously you must cut back on the use of acids.
I also don't think you can thin the skin by exfoliation - the skin continually regenerates itself. It is not finite - it is our body's largest organ. Think of someone who constantly does hard labour - their hands will be calloused, the skin reinforces itself against the constant abrasion. The same goes for someone who walks around in bare feet - their skin doesn't wear away, it becomes thicker.
There's some good info on broken caps here - this site actually recommends RA as a treatment:
http://www.treatment-skincare.com/Questions/Broken-Capillaries/Treatments.html
According to all the doctors that I have ever spoken to, IPL is the only quick fix for broken caps. This is because the laser actually zaps the capillary and disperses the blood. There are topicals that promise such things as strengthening the capillary walls etc, but in my experience, no topical will get rid of broken caps. Even after IPL they can return - especially the stubborn ones around the nose. |
Retinoids thicken the dermis (where collagen and elastin are) but thin the epidermis (which is mostly made up of dead cells). So while overall they do thicken the skin, with a thinner epidermis there's more chance of capillaries showing. See http://health.yahoo.net/experts/skintype/do-retinoids-thin-your-skin |
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Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:16 pm |
Josh wrote: |
Keliu wrote: |
Well, I'm going to disagree. I think my skin has thickened up substantially since I've been using Retin-A (approx 3 years). Isn't that what it's supposed to do - increase collagen and elastin? Yes, the skin does peel/flake at first, but after a while the peeling stops as your skin adjusts to the RA. However, if you are exfoliating too aggressively, then your skin will become red, irritated and sore - if that happens then obviously you must cut back on the use of acids.
I also don't think you can thin the skin by exfoliation - the skin continually regenerates itself. It is not finite - it is our body's largest organ. Think of someone who constantly does hard labour - their hands will be calloused, the skin reinforces itself against the constant abrasion. The same goes for someone who walks around in bare feet - their skin doesn't wear away, it becomes thicker.
There's some good info on broken caps here - this site actually recommends RA as a treatment:
http://www.treatment-skincare.com/Questions/Broken-Capillaries/Treatments.html
According to all the doctors that I have ever spoken to, IPL is the only quick fix for broken caps. This is because the laser actually zaps the capillary and disperses the blood. There are topicals that promise such things as strengthening the capillary walls etc, but in my experience, no topical will get rid of broken caps. Even after IPL they can return - especially the stubborn ones around the nose. |
Retinoids thicken the dermis (where collagen and elastin are) but thin the epidermis (which is mostly made up of dead cells). So while overall they do thicken the skin, with a thinner epidermis there's more chance of capillaries showing. See http://health.yahoo.net/experts/skintype/do-retinoids-thin-your-skin |
You have very nice skin! Are you the same Josh that used to post on the skin type solution forum? |
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Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:22 pm |
Josh wrote: |
I've not noticed any firming, but for a 40yo who was a sun-worshipper my skin is in remarkable condition so I really wouldn't expect to see any.
(excuse the goofy smile ) |
Josh, You look Fantastic. Your skin is gorgeous. Now, I want to know what you are using morning and night on your skin!! |
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Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:35 pm |
SkinCareJunkie, I am (and still do). |
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Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:38 pm |
rileygirl, thank you it's all in my signature. I've been on a very low dose of Accutane for a couple of months too to try and correct the damage that I was left with from copper peptides (and it has worked). Prior to my current regimen I was just using a cleanser containing salicylic acid, whatever sunscreen I was trying at the time, a home-made niacinamide/witch hazel/glycerin toner and precription retinoids (Differin for a few months then Retin-A Gel for about 5 months).
It's more to do with genetics though IMO. |
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Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:47 pm |
Josh wrote: |
rileygirl, thank you it's all in my signature. I've been on a very low dose of Accutane for a couple of months too to try and correct the damage that I was left with from copper peptides (and it has worked). Prior to my current regimen I was just using a cleanser containing salicylic acid, whatever sunscreen I was trying at the time, a home-made niacinamide/witch hazel/glycerin toner and precription retinoids (Differin for a few months then Retin-A Gel for about 5 months).
It's more to do with genetics though IMO. |
LOL. I do think a lot of it has to go with genes, but you still have very nice skin. Have you noticed any improvements with the Accutane other than correcting the CP damage? |
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Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:09 pm |
I have! I'd say about 80% of the sebaceous hyperplasia I had is gone. Whether it stays away when I stop the Accutane is anyone's guess, but my derm has me on 20mg three times a week now and wants me to stay on that for 26 weeks. Apparently there's more success with sebaceous hyperplasia using a low dose over a longer period. So I have my fingers, toes and any other bits of me that will cross crossed!! |
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Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:03 pm |
Well I wish you continued good luck with the Accutane, Josh! I can't get over how tight your skin appears. I would love for my skin to be that tight but mine is heading south! |
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Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:53 pm |
SkinCareJunkie - I agree with Riley, stop everything and just use a soothing oil until your skin heals. Also, never slather RA on the skin, you're only supposed to use a pea size amount. If you ever decide to use it again, just go for a 0.25% cream.
As Josh pointed out, exfoliation is supposed to get rid of dead skin cells - not your whole epidermis! Any irritated, sore skin is a sign that you have exfoliated too much.
Josh - your skin looks great! I also suffer from SH, I'm so tempted to try the Accutane.
Riley - you're a mystery!! All your problems seemed to have started with the Wonderbar. Surely your skin should have bounced back by now. Could it be Rosacea? |
_________________ Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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