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Sat Oct 23, 2010 12:46 pm  |
Keliu - I don't know Dr. Johnson's products and have not checked out his harmonized water. But I will. FWIW: My opinion - Water that is being sold to target specific ailments is bunk and aimed at innocent people who are trying to find a cure and may be desperate to try things OR they have money to throw around at things that may or may not work. That said - I buy supplements that the jury is still out on but I personally think they are helping me.
All water is not equal but there is an endpoint in what it can and cannot do for a person's health. I wouldn't think of it as a specific healing mechanism (unless you're going to Lourdes or some similar place).
There is discussion on Secret gold thread about blessing one's water, etc and I wouldn't put faith in that either. Not that it isn't a pleasant thought and may create a placebo effect which is fine. I believe in a lot of unusual things and do not discount possibilities but one needs to be realistic too - it's a balance.
Back to Osmosis - I don't know the product line but it does interest me and that's why I'd like to know more about his philosophy, etc. Just like to learn. |
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Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Sat Oct 23, 2010 12:51 pm |
thanks for this. I am fiendish about using AHA's and salicylic - aspirin masks..., etc, etc. Not high concentration but 10% as in alpha hydrox and Skinbiology LacSal. It amazes me the variation in thought process between professionals regarding exfoliation. Nanci - NCN does not think exfoliation is helpful either. To me this is a worthwhile discussion point. |
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Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Sat Oct 23, 2010 1:13 pm |
Very interesting as so many think exfoliation is beneficial to our skin. 
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2000_July_25/ai_63662476/
Face Facts: Debunking The AHA Myths; NeoStrata's Doctors Van Scott and Yu, Discoverers of Alpha Hydroxyacids, Address Issues of Benefits and Effects for Skin Care
MYTH: AHAs over-exfoliate the skin, leaving the skin vulnerable to environmental aggressors.
FACT: "Alpha Hydroxyacids work to normalize cell renewal," says Dr. Van Scott. He goes on to explain that AHAs do not exfoliate the skin in the conventional way that other chemical (i.e., salicylic acid) and mechanical (i.e., loofah) exfoliants affect the skin. While there is a brief period of surface exfoliation that may occur following initial use, AHAs affect the skin by normalizing cell turnover in the epidermis (the top layers of the skin), encouraging the formation of normal, healthy skin. This is a benefit that is unique to AHAs and is not found with other chemical or mechanical exfoliants which work by continuously removing the top layers of skin.
In addition, Drs. Van Scott and Yu urge consumers to use common sense to fully maximize the benefits of AHAs on their skin. For example, skin is always more susceptible to sun exposure after any type of cosmetic procedure (AHA application, laser treatment, micro-dermabrasion, etc.). As a result, a strict sun avoidance program and use of a well-formulated sunscreen are required until the skin has fully healed. It is also recommended that daytime use of AHA products be accompanied by daily SPF 15 sunscreen use.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8642081
RESULTS: Treatment with AHAs caused an approximate 25% increase in skin thickness. The epidermis was thicker and papillary dermal changes included increased thickness, increased acid mucopolysaccharides, improved quality of elastic fibers, and increased density of collagen. No inflammation was evident.
CONCLUSION: Treatment with AHAs produced significant reversal of epidermal and dermal markers of photoaging.
PMID: 8642081 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1346-8138.2006.00003.x/abstract
Keywords:
Alpha-hydroxy acid (AHA);collagen I;photo-damaged skin;procollagen I;TUNEL
ABSTRACT
Alpha-hydroxy acid (AHA) agents, such as glycolic acid and lactic acid, have been used as therapeutic agents for more than a quarter of a century. Recently, they have been used as agents to rejuvenate photo-aged skin. It is believed that these AHA agents induce the epidermis to remodel and accelerate desquamation, thus exerting their therapeutic effects. In this study, we investigated the histological differences in skin treated with glycolic, lactic, citric and acetic acids once daily for 6 weeks. The melanin pigments in the basal layer were less prominent in the glycolic and lactic acid-treated skin than in the citric and acetic acid-treated skin. The melanin deposits in the horny layers were equal for all AHA. However, the melanin deposits in the squamous layers were less prominent in the glycolic and lactic acid-treated skins than in the citric and acetic acid-treated skins; this was analogous to observations of the basal layers. Collagen I and procollagen I were increased after treatment with glycolic, lactic and citric acid in the upper dermis, but were not increased with acetic acid treatment. However, the staining of the epidermis and dermis for matrix metalloproteinase-1 (MMP-1) after treatment was not significantly different among the agents. Our data suggest that longer treatment intervals with glycolic and lactic acid can cause improvements in both the epidermal and dermal components and support the usefulness of AHA for rejuvenating photo-damaged skin.
http://www.eblue.org/article/S0190-9622(96)70002-6/abstract
Journal of the American Academy of Dermatology
Volume 34, Issue 2 , Pages 187-195, February 1996
Effects of alpha-hydroxy acids on photoaged skin: a pilot clinical, histologic, and ultrastructural study [see comments]
CM Ditre, TD Griffin, GF Murphy, H Sueki, B Telegan, WC Johnson, RJ Yu, EJ Van Scott
Abstract
Abstract
BACKGROUND: alpha-Hydroxy acids (AHAs) have been reported to improve aging skin. The mechanisms of action of AHAs on epidermal and dermal compartments need clarification. OBJECTIVE: Our purpose was to determine the effects of AHAs on photoaged human skin by clinical and microanalytic means. METHODS: Patients applied a lotion containing 25% glycolic, lactic, or citric acid to one forearm and a placebo lotion to the opposite forearm for an average of 6 months. Thickness of forearm skin was measured throughout the study. Biopsy specimens from both forearms were processed for analysis at the end of the study. RESULTS: Treatment with AHAs caused an approximate 25% increase in skin thickness. The epidermis was thicker and papillary dermal changes included increased thickness, increased acid mucopolysaccharides, improved quality of elastic fibers, and increased density of collagen. No inflammation was evident. CONCLUSION: Treatment with AHAs produced significant reversal of epidermal and dermal markers of photoaging. (J Am Acad Dermatol 1996 Feb;34(2 Pt 1):187-95)
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sat Oct 23, 2010 1:20 pm |
| sister sweets wrote: |
| Nanci - NCN does not think exfoliation is helpful either. To me this is a worthwhile discussion point. |
But I believe she used to think it was important and has since changed her opinion on it?
I know Obagi uses the AHA/PA pretty much just for exfoliation. Unless he has changed his mind from his book, he did not believe it held anti-aging properties. I am also fairly certain Dr. Fernandes doesn't believe it has antiaging properties either. I have an interesting PDF that I will try to post a link to in a bit. |
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Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:23 pm |
Not sure if you will be able to open this or not, but it has information on AHA's in it, which I find interesting.
http://pdfcast.org/pdf/cosmeceutical-agents-a-comprehensive-review-of-the-literature
ETA: This part in particular may interest some of you:
Long-term use of GA may improve skin texture
and provide a more youthful appearance. This can
be partially explained by its ability to induce
glycosaminoglycan and hyaluronic acid synthesis
in the dermis, leading to improved dermal hydration and thickness |
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Sat Oct 23, 2010 4:05 pm |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| sister sweets wrote: |
| Nanci - NCN does not think exfoliation is helpful either. To me this is a worthwhile discussion point. |
But I believe she used to think it was important and has since changed her opinion on it?
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Exactly - she did change her opinion and so stopped selling the exfoliating methods she no longer believes in. I would like to know where the opinion against is coming from - especially in light of the studies from Dermatological journals. Haven't checked but I assume Dr. Johnson is a derm or P.S |
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Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:10 pm |
I don't know what type of doctor Dr. Johnson is, on all his sites I haven't seen mention of his specialty? I did see mention someplace that he is owner of a number of med-spas.
I do recall Keliu asking what his credentials are, and think the last time he was posting on the original Osmisis thread it was asked, it's never been answered? |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:36 pm |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| sister sweets wrote: |
| Nanci - NCN does not think exfoliation is helpful either. To me this is a worthwhile discussion point. |
But I believe she used to think it was important and has since changed her opinion on it?
I know Obagi uses the AHA/PA pretty much just for exfoliation. Unless he has changed his mind from his book, he did not believe it held anti-aging properties. I am also fairly certain Dr. Fernandes doesn't believe it has antiaging properties either. I have an interesting PDF that I will try to post a link to in a bit. |
OK, Not bashing Nancy or disagreeing about her change of heart/opinion however she is still selling 3 exfoliates? Pumpkin Peel, Microfiber cloth and a 15% daily exfoliate? |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:44 pm |
Here is a quote from Nanci's site:
http://www.ncnproskincare.com/
Copper Peptide plus Exfoliation works better than anything else for age reversal - guaranteed! If you're tired of spending money on products that don't work, you've come to the right place because we offer the best age reversal skin care products available without a prescription! Our products are based on cell renewal through exfoliation. Learn why exfoliation is KEY in anti-aging skin care.We're proud to offer the Dr. Loren Pickart patented age reversal skin care with Copper Peptide - the strongest Copper Peptide available! We also offer our own line of professional anti-aging skin care products including our 30% Glycolic, Lactic, Salicylic & Fruit Acid Professional Pumpkin Peel , our incredible Microfiber Facial Cloth, All Natural SPF30 in 3 skin specific formulas, All-Trans Retinol 1.0% & 2.0%, 20% Matrixyl 3000 Serum, Botox Alternative SPF30 that's loaded with anti-oxidants, age defying Mineral Makeup, the very best in home therapy skin rejuvenating tools and so much more.....
She also sells the Timpepeel Microdermabrasion machine. Doesn't look like she's anti exfoliation to me. |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:58 pm |
| Hi All! I was just wondering if anyone is planning to try the new Osmosis Stem Cell product? I'm intrigued. |
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Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:38 pm |
| jom wrote: |
| Hi All! I was just wondering if anyone is planning to try the new Osmosis Stem Cell product? I'm intrigued. |
I probably will, I order eveything else so I don't see why this product would be any different. 
I just received an email from Jo Ella saying she now has it in stock. I would order it from EDS if they carried the Osmosis line.
http://www.karinherzog-jmilan.com/Osmosis-What-is-Dr-Johnson-Using_c_141.html |
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The best way to locate your cat is to open a can of food. |
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Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:41 pm |
| Frodo wrote: |
| I probably will, I order eveything else so I don't see why this product would be any different. |
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early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:56 pm |
| Love it. Off to check Osmosis hehehe. |
_________________
Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:40 pm |
| Frodo wrote: |
| jom wrote: |
| Hi All! I was just wondering if anyone is planning to try the new Osmosis Stem Cell product? I'm intrigued. |
I probably will, I order eveything else so I don't see why this product would be any different.
I just received an email from Jo Ella saying she now has it in stock. I would order it from EDS if they carried the Osmosis line.
http://www.karinherzog-jmilan.com/Osmosis-What-is-Dr-Johnson-Using_c_141.html |
Thanks Frodo, it probably goes without saying, but please post your first impressions and results. |
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Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:04 pm |
| Ditto please Frodo, brave Frodo! |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:31 pm |
| foxe wrote: |
| Frodo wrote: |
| I probably will, I order eveything else so I don't see why this product would be any different. |
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But are you going to take the 8 harmonized waters as well? |
_________________
Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:35 pm |
Nanci is in business so is not going to rid herself of products that sell - however she did discontinue all of her exfoliating products from Skin Biology - maybe it was to bring in her own but at the time she said she was not believing in exfoliation as she once did. Plus, she herself has said she only uses her pumpkin peel once per month and she was bringing on alternatives to AHA's etc.
I think if harmonizing waters bring harmony, I'm all for it. |
_________________
Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:59 pm |
| It will be a couple of weeks before I order. Need to wait for my CC to cycle, had too many "gotta haves". I am fortunate to have a "play budget" but I spent way too much time in the sand box this month. Ageless secret gold/stemulation. |
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The best way to locate your cat is to open a can of food. |
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Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:59 pm |
| Keliu wrote: |
| foxe wrote: |
| Frodo wrote: |
| I probably will, I order eveything else so I don't see why this product would be any different. |
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But are you going to take the 8 harmonized waters as well? |
I think I will get out a few tuning forks, my dermawand and pray over the water to harmonize it myself, at least it's super cheap!  |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:03 pm |
| Frodo wrote: |
| It will be a couple of weeks before I order. Need to wait for my CC to cycle, had too many "gotta haves". I am fortunate to have a "play budget" but I spent way too much time in the sand box this month. Ageless secret gold/stemulation. |
If you are buying the stem cell from Stemulation and Osmosis, how are you going to know which is doing what Frodo? Half face with each? |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:06 pm |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| I think I will get out a few tuning forks, my dermawand and pray over the water to harmonize it myself, at least it's super cheap! |
The only method I know of for harmonizing water is to add Scotch to it! |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:10 pm |
| Keliu wrote: |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| I think I will get out a few tuning forks, my dermawand and pray over the water to harmonize it myself, at least it's super cheap! |
The only method I know of for harmonizing water is to add Scotch to it! |
LMAO I'll take mine with a shot of Vodka please!
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:57 am |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| Frodo wrote: |
| It will be a couple of weeks before I order. Need to wait for my CC to cycle, had too many "gotta haves". I am fortunate to have a "play budget" but I spent way too much time in the sand box this month. Ageless secret gold/stemulation. |
If you are buying the stem cell from Stemulation and Osmosis, how are you going to know which is doing what Frodo? Half face with each? |
I don't plan on starting Osmosis until I hit the one month trial period with them. It's been two weeks and haven't had issues with breakouts but I also haven't seen any changes either. Very discouraging but I am aware I need to give these 2 products more time. |
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The best way to locate your cat is to open a can of food. |
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Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:03 am |
| That makes sense Frodo, I didn't realize you had started the Stemulation already. I hope one or the other shows good results for you! |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:08 pm |
Frodo, are you going to try the Boost, Renew, or Correct at all too or just the Stem Factor? I'm not allowed to order anything for awhile but Osmosis prices are pretty reasonable.
Speaking of AHA's, can anyone recommend a hand cream that has that in it? Asking because I wouldn't mind trying to see if I can add thickness to my hands (as in not having them look older than the rest of me). |
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