| Author |
Message |
Fritz96
New Member
 
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 7
|
|
|
|
|
|
Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:22 pm  |
Ack!
Posted By: DeAnn
"I had used a product with that in and for the first year it seemed fine. Then all of a sudden the skin on my face took on a new texture. You could poke a finger into it and the imprint would stay there....for hours and sometimes all day! My skin got really loose looking and felt very thin, like it had thinned right out. Off to my dermatologist I went and she told me the argireline was most likely the culprit ... she added that it would probably need to be surgically corrected and recommended a few plastic surgeons.......My skin is like PlayDoh(tm). I have to sleep on my back"
Wow, this is scary. I have been using Relax-A-Line on my forehead, and my forehead skin is very tight. Wonder if there is any truth to this? |
_________________
56, Very Fair Skin, Oily with Mild Breakouts, Blonde, Blue Eyes, Irish/German Descent |
|
|
|
|
Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:42 pm |
I have been using AlphaDerma with 10%Airgireline in it since July. My skin gets firmer and firmer. Would I put Argireline on my face alone and above 10% NO. I believe it is all in the formulation and other ingredients in the product. While Argireline has helped soften my fine lines ans wrinkles, it is the Vit C, Soy, Collagen, DMAE, Alpha L Acid, HA Acid and SPF 15 that has made my skin unbelievably firm for 60 years old. I even discussed this issue with the owner of JB as this question was asks before. There is no way that this can happen with a 10% concentrate of Airgireline. Believe me products with Airgireline has been out some time now. This forum would have had an ear full by now.
Just read the thread...one of the products being discussed I used for one month. I did not like this product and my skin did not either. The product being discussed had just 10 % Argireline and a filler. Again, it is all in the formulations of the product.
There are several products being discusses all the time on this forum containing Argireline with fine companies behind them. The other companies that have not a good reputation are really never discussed on this forum.
The companies I know of that have an excellent reputation are: Janson-Beckett, CellularSkin RX, Vivier, Esther Secret.
Before I started a serious program with a product containing Argireline I did a lot of reading and company research. |
|
|
|
|
|
Wed Apr 06, 2005 4:54 pm |
YIKES! That was not a pleasant thread to read  It makes me a little nervous..
Pudoodles |
|
|
|
|
|
Wed Apr 06, 2005 5:31 pm |
| Pudoodles wrote: |
YIKES! That was not a pleasant thread to read It makes me a little nervous..
Pudoodles |
 Don't worry Pudoodles you will be fine. Although I do not like the product they are talking about I don't see how this could happen. I can remember when someone first brought this topic to the forum months ago. It scared the heck out of me. Got right on the horn to "you know who." No saggies for me and I cover my face and neck with it. |
|
|
|
|
|
Thu Apr 07, 2005 3:33 am |
I find this whole urban legend really hard to believe. This peptide complex doesn't even effect the skin. It effects the neuro-transmitters in the muscles under the skin. The only thing i can think of is that these women are mistaking a rested brow for loss of skin/muscle tone. And from everything that I have read in trade journals, the manufacturer's performance data, etc, the effect of Argireline on the muscles is temporary and completely reversable. In other words, as soon as you stop using the product, the effect wears off.
Now that being said...I have been using Relax-A-Line for almost a year now DAILY. And I really do notice that it takes an actual effort to raise my brow, whereas before it was something that I did habitually without noticing. But with that relaxed brow, I do notice that my upper eyelids are not as arched as they used to be even a year ago. Is that a result of the Argireline, or just age? I don't know. But I do know that my skin has never looked better in my life! And the creases that I had on my forehead are completely gone.
So, I guess for me, until my skin starts to "turn to play dough" - I'm still sold! |
|
|
|
|
|
Sun Apr 17, 2005 3:35 pm |
This is from Dianna Yvonne:
I hope to shed some light on what I would consider proper use with products such as this.
Argireline is a treatment...to help relax the muscles that are prone to repetitive movement causing a wrinkle in the skin. Once the movement is reduced the skin should begin to smooth as the skin attempts the natural process of remodeling on it's on. How fast that happens depends on many factors some of which include age, products used, etc.
Once the Argireline has helped to relax the muscle, there is no need for it until such time as the muscle might again need a little relaxing. For instance: There are those with well developed muscles that cause the verticals and that individual most likely must use longer or stronger approach. There are those with a less developed muscles and they typically respond quite fast.
In my opinion, this product is not for general facial application and should not be applied to the entire face but instead only very specific areas of treatment.
I have read the Avotox and others directions I can most certainly see that "target area" could mean a bunch of different things to different people. Target area is not the face...target area is a specific muscle very much on the same principal of Botox.
I have published some decent instructions on how to use the ATX, an argireline product, to help isolate those muscles that might be causing the wrinkle. I invite you to read so you can determine if in fact you have been targeting the right area. I also encourage you to avoid applying the product to other facial areas where relaxing the muscle is going to be counter productive i.e., relaxed cheeks.
http://static.zoovy.com/merchant/dianayvonne/ATX_and_ATXtra_Application.pdf
I sincerely hope this helps.
Kind Regards
DianaYvonne |
|
|
|
|
|
Sun Apr 17, 2005 3:44 pm |
| I do not think that the vit C or DMAE are the culprits. There are plenty of peer reviewed articles that you can view by using MEDLINE at your local library that show these components are both safe and effective. There are on the other hand zero peer reviewed articles on Argireline. I don't think it would make your skin sag but I wouldn't count on either long term safety or long term effectiveness. Use a product with Vit C,E DMAE and some sort of Retinyl component (retinyl palminate is absorbed and used effectively). These components actually improve the health of your skin (from real skin biopsy). |
|
|
Fritz96
New Member
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 7
|
|
|
Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:18 pm |
| If Dianna Yvonne said no argireline, that's good enough for me. It's too bad, if Alphaderma didn't have argireline, I would buy it for all the other great ingredients. But I'm not going to use argireline daily all over my face. |
|
|
|
|
|
Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:27 am |
I too, have also been concerned about the effects of argireline. I purchased Alphaderma, Skin Prep and Okusil and used them for over a month and then ordered a second lot, not because I saw any improvement in wrinkles, but my skin tone improved. Into the third month I stopped using the products because, although the puffy eyes were alleviated each day for a few hours, over a period of time, the undereye bags appeared worse and the brow skin appeared to be really hanging down on my eyes. I also noticed the skin on my neck starting to loosen. I wish Jansen Beckett would increase the percentages of some of the other ingredients and drop the argireline from the products. If they did that then I might use them again.
Before I had seen any comments on this forum, I started to wonder how a muscle relaxant could improve the structure of my skin for the better as I am over 50 and my skin is showing signs of sagging in places so I want a product that will help to firm the skin (i.e. tighten the muscles), not cause it to relax and sag further. |
|
|
|
|
|
Mon Apr 18, 2005 9:27 am |
I know that there is a lot of discussion about argireline and the fact that peolpe think it can loosen your skin due to relaxing the muscle. The way Argireline (Acetyl Hexapeptide 3) works is to stop repetitive movements which cause the fine lines and wrinkles. In laymans terms it blocks the signal to the facial muscle. These repetitive movements which we do when we squint our eyes or frown or laugh all give us wrinkles over time. Even when we sleep we do these repetitive movements unaware of the damage it causes. That is one of the reasons it is good to use before sleep. To make the claim that Argireline loosens skin is simply not true. That is not how it works. Many people read up on it and take their own version of what they read and are interpreting it incorrectly. The word Relaxing to some consumers can make them assume that it will do something that it will not. Many companies out their like Avotone only use Argireline and they have millions of customers. Lets think of the alternative; poison being injected into your face to paralyze muscles or palmatoyl pentapeptide 3 which is supposed to stimulate collagen synthesis. The phrase Botox Alternative was introduced because their is a better way to get results without going to drastic steps. Argireline is safe and has been clinically tested. If certain people are getting different results from the same item then you know it is just fine. Anything you buy whether taken internally or used on the skin will work differently for different people. There will never be anything on the market that works the exact same for everyone. If someone invents that I hope it is going to be me because that will be a first. 
| bushy wrote: |
I too, have also been concerned about the effects of argireline. I purchased Alphaderma, Skin Prep and Okusil and used them for over a month and then ordered a second lot, not because I saw any improvement in wrinkles, but my skin tone improved. Into the third month I stopped using the products because, although the puffy eyes were alleviated each day for a few hours, over a period of time, the undereye bags appeared worse and the brow skin appeared to be really hanging down on my eyes. I also noticed the skin on my neck starting to loosen. I wish Jansen Beckett would increase the percentages of some of the other ingredients and drop the argireline from the products. If they did that then I might use them again.
Before I had seen any comments on this forum, I started to wonder how a muscle relaxant could improve the structure of my skin for the better as I am over 50 and my skin is showing signs of sagging in places so I want a product that will help to firm the skin (i.e. tighten the muscles), not cause it to relax and sag further. |
|
_________________
JB Cosmeceuticals |
|
|
|
|
Mon Apr 18, 2005 9:45 am |
Scratching my head....
WHERE did she say no argilene??? Sure not the way I read it. |
|
|
|
|
|
Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:18 am |
| I don't know who's right and who's wrong, but Dianna wrote that Argireline should not be used daily on the entire face. |
|
|
|
|
|
Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:40 am |
Ahhh okay. I did read that her view was that it was not necessary to use over the entire face. Couldn't agree with that more. I was confused by Fritz96's post.
DUH  |
|
|
|
|
|
Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:40 am |
| I've been using Relax-A-Line for about nine mos. or so. I have had no problem with sagging whatsoever. In fact, I think my skin looks quite firm. Since acetyl hexapeptide is a topical, I'd be surprised if it could have a permanent effect of any sort. Even the Botox injections wear off after a few months, right? And since it is so much stronger, wouldn't your face just fall to your collarbones when you got the injections? Just kidding. I do only use this where muscle contractions cause lines. I do not use it all over my face. I mean, who wants to relax their cheek muscles? |
|
|
|
|
|
Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:01 am |
After nine months of Argireline all over my face I think I would look like a bassett hound by now. Instead I am firmer then I was 10 years ago. 
 Winnie |
|
|
Fritz96
New Member
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 7
|
|
|
Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:43 am |
That's what I mean. I want to use Alphaderma, but my cheeks is one area that needs firming.
| betterat40 wrote: |
| I do only use this where muscle contractions cause lines. I do not use it all over my face. I mean, who wants to relax their cheek muscles? |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:43 pm |
Betterat40 and Winnie 
My face is still on top of my neck and we all know I bathe in relaxaline. |
_________________
50, happy reluma user started 16.6.12 original formula. PMD user. started LouLou's ageless regime. |
|
|
|
|
Mon Apr 18, 2005 9:06 pm |
Hi
I think the problem is that the comparison between botox and Argireline is not realistic.
I've been doing face exercises for many years. I'm really intimate with them. I know how they move. I know which ones make others move. I just really know my face.
And using Argireline doesn't hinder those movements at all (for me at least). I'm not being scientific about this, but Argireline seems to effect the micro-muscles just below the skin's surface but not the big beefy muscles (like cheeks) which you can actually move and control yourself. Whereas from what I've seen and read Botox can certainly affect those big muscles and cause droop if it's overused.
Is this just my experience that it doesn't affect the underlying muscle or is it just that my facial muscles are stronger because of the exercises? I do still experience a goodish smoothing effect on the skin with this stuff but I wouldn't say it's working on the actual muscles.
M |
|
|
Mabsy
Moderator
Joined: 17 Aug 2003
Posts: 9644
|
|
|
Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:56 am |
As I said in another thread somewhere (sorry to repeat myself  ) I really don't buy into this. I have watched the results that my mum has and she uses a 10% argireline product (ADCE) together with a vitamin C serum (Vivier) and the JB skin prep. She is using Alphaderma on her entire face and she has been doing so for about eight months now. She's getting great results from it and if I suggested that she stop using it she'd probably have me committed.... |
|
|
|
|
|
Tue Apr 19, 2005 4:04 am |
| There is no way that Argireline can make the skin droop or lose it's tone. Ian is absolutely correct. It does nothing to the skin, it only affects the neuro-receptors in the muscles under the skin. Also studies have shown that the effects of Argireline are temporary & completely reversable. I think what these women may be mistaking for drooping skin is actually what in the industry is called a "rested brow". Many people (including myself) with a heavy eyelid have been used to unconciously raising their eyebrows to give the face a more lifted look. Argireline makes that slightly more difficult to do without being concious of it. The lower rested brow can make the eyes more "droopy" looking, but the trade-off is not having the deep creases in the forehead. But the claim that it makes your whole face saggy is ridiculous. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mon Apr 25, 2005 6:12 am |
Brave Winnie posting pictures 
Definitely no sagging there. I have seen full face pics of Winnie and she has beautiful clear, firm skin. I think she looks amazing, she has had excellent results from her products. I know she lost a lot of weight and the skin was loose and she was unhappy. Now look at her if I look half as good as her when I get to her age I will be happy. |
_________________
50, happy reluma user started 16.6.12 original formula. PMD user. started LouLou's ageless regime. |
|
|
|
|
Mon Apr 25, 2005 6:15 am |
| Wow Winnie.... Truly fantastic! Brava for posting the pics |
|
|
|
|
|
Mon Apr 25, 2005 7:06 am |
| I don't doubt you at all, but are there any products that have those great ingredients without the argireline? |
|
|
|
|
| Tue Oct 21, 2025 9:03 pm |
If this is your first visit to the EDS Forums please take the time to register. Registration is required for you to post on the forums. Registration will also give you the ability to track messages of interest, send private messages to other users, participate in Gift Certificates draws and enjoy automatic discounts for shopping at our online store. Registration is free and takes just a few seconds to complete.
Click Here to join our community.
If you are already a registered member on the forums, please login to gain full access to the site. |
|
 |
|
