Tonya's "bed of pins" (Lyapko) great tool!
EDS Skin Care Forums Forum Index » Skincare Tools & Do-It-Yourself Skincare

free skin care · Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:59 pm

JenJ wrote:

I have a graveyard of dermarollers (5)...started purchasing when I saw a show with Dr. Phil's wife stating that she used the roller to help her skincare products penetrate. Then I purchased several other rollers with various needle lengths. There was a forum called Lab Muffins (or something like that) and there was a pretty comprehensive thread on dermarollers. I purchased topical numbing cream and went to town....did it a couple of times, but I really didn't see much of a difference and didn't enjoy the process...it hurt even with the numbing cream.

I like Tonya's because it's similar to the dermaroller with the shortest needles but it's wider so it covers the neck/throat/face much faster and it's not meant to break the surface of the skin. I actually get more circulation color with Tonya's roller than I do with the Vaculifter, so for me it's timesaving, yet very effective for increasing the blood flow to the face/neck/throat.

I ordered the "bed of pins" based on JenJ's post. I had been wanting this for a couple of years and after her review I ordered. I really like it and use it several times a day. It feels wonderful on the scalp as well as the face. This is the website with information about it.
http://www.beautifulonraw.com/Skin_Rejuvinater_Bed_of_Nails.html

free skin care · Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:07 pm

It sounds really interesting and I wish I could try it but I am very allergic to nickel and the write up states "The Rolling Bed uses two types of needles - copper and iron. Some of the iron needles are plated with nickel or zinc. Some copper needles are plated in silver. As a result, five different metals come into contact with your skin."

I look forward to reading about your results -- good luck!!

Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:33 pm

This kind of dermaroller was designed by reflexologist Lyapko N. G. from Ukraine. I never try one yet, but thinking to order. You can actually find different type of those applicators on ebay, just type Lyapko

free skin care · Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:26 am

The bed of pins is a great tool, but its important to note its not actually a derma roller as it doesn't penetrate the skin at all (like dermarollers do). The needles are much thicker than those of a derma roller. I love mine though I have to say (but it can be painful sometimes if your doing it in fatty areas).

free skin care · Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:07 am

I've wanted this for a long while also and finally caved....I love it

Thanks to JenJ for the inspiration.

It brings wonderful blood flow to the skin and allows rolling in of products without the pain! I did get a touch of blood at the nose area so apparently you can penetrate skin with it Theresa Mary. Shock

Much more user friendly than a standard dermaroller. And cuter too!

free skin care · Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:59 am

It most certainly does bring wonderful blood flow to the skin, but it was not designed as a derma roller and the needles are not by any means supposed to penetrate the skin according to the back of the packaging that I'm reading of mine. I fail to see why there is reluctance to this - even Tonya says on her website:

"You'll feel no scratching or gouging - only a calming, soothing effect. As long as you roll along the surface, the pins touch your skin but never pierce it. Blood comes closer to your skin but never contacts the needles."

sister sweets wrote:

It brings wonderful blood flow to the skin and allows rolling in of products without the pain! I did get a touch of blood at the nose area so apparently you can penetrate skin with it Theresa Mary. Shock

Much more user friendly than a standard dermaroller. And cuter too!

free skin care · Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:38 am

I completely agree - it has a different purpose then a dermaroller. I also have one of Tonya's and love it, just should use it more often.

free skin care · Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:21 pm

Merrylass wrote:

It sounds really interesting and I wish I could try it but I am very allergic to nickel and the write up states "The Rolling Bed uses two types of needles - copper and iron. Some of the iron needles are plated with nickel or zinc. Some copper needles are plated in silver. As a result, five different metals come into contact with your skin."

I look forward to reading about your results -- good luck!!

Hi MerryLass,

I can't wear any jewelry with nickel otherwise I itch like crazy and it's just not pretty what nickel does to me. However, I have no problems using this roller, so just wanted to throw that out in case you wanted to give it a try....I'd contact Tonya first to make sure you could return if there were issues relating to your allergy.

Jen

free skin care · Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:03 pm

Can anyone tell me the size of the roller, please?

Thank you.

free skin care · Sat Aug 20, 2011 3:25 pm

doba wrote:

Can anyone tell me the size of the roller, please?

Thank you.

Hi doba,

I've had one of these for about a year, and really enjoy using it.

The roller is approximately 3 inches wide, and 2 inches in diameter. The wood handle is about 5 inches long.

free skin care · Sun Aug 21, 2011 11:27 am

Thank you very much!

free skin care · Sun Aug 21, 2011 11:28 am

I decided to order Lyapko roller instead from the ebay. You can get it in three different sizes.

Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:54 pm

moving these related posts over from the Ageless thread

Keliu wrote:

sister sweets wrote:

Keliu wrote:

sister sweets wrote:

I've also started using something that I HIGHLY RECOMMEND: That is the Rolling Bed of Nails from Tonya Zavasta - It's a version of dermaroller without the pain, covers more area and brings a terrific blood flow. I just got mine a few days ago and really love it. What a trick it is!!!!
I roll in Ageless or whatever I choose to. It's a a great adjunct tool. It takes very little time too.

I have to respond to the above comment because I think it's misleading. The Rolling Bed of Nails works on a totally different principle to the Dermaroller. The Dermaroller pierces the skin and the ones with the longer needles pierce the skin to such a depth that damage to the dermis will be caused - which, in turn, stimulates a wound healing response which results in the growth of collagen and elastin. The shorter length Dermarollers also pierce the skin, but just to a degree to allow for better penetration of topicals - they create micro-channels into the skin.

The Rolling Bed of Nails does not pierce the skin. It is simply a massage tool - so, yes, it would definitely be beneficial in increasing blood supply. In my opinion, the results would be more akin to using the Vaculifter.

Keliu it is not simply a "massage tool." Not ALL dermarollers are meant to cause damage as you state. Tonya's absolutely DOES function as a small needled dermaroller. It is the larger surface area of the gadget that makes the difference in how it feels. Much less noticeable and still very effective.

I have three dermarollers size .25, .50 and a 1.0 and therefore feel I understand what I'm looking at and comparing it to.

I don't recall you saying you have the Rolling Bed of pins... Do you have one?

No, but I do have a Japanese version that works in a similar way - supposedly stimulating galvanic current through the metals it contains.

You cannot compare a Dermaroller which uses Collagen Induction Therapy and this roller which doesn't penetrate the skin. The blurb states quite clearly that it doesn't pierce the skin:

Quote:

Use your Rolling Bed gently, evenly, smoothly. You'll feel no scratching or gouging - only a calming, soothing effect. As long as you roll along the surface, the pins touch your skin but never pierce it. Blood comes closer to your skin but never contacts the needles. The Rolling Bed is completely noninvasive - there is absolutely no possibility of blood-related infection.

This may well be a wonderful gadget - I'm all for bringing blood to the surface of the skin. But you are misleading people who may not be familiar with the whole philosophy of dermarolling into thinking that this is a similar tool - it is not.

ThersaMary wrote:

I own both the bed of pins and have a derma roller and have to say hands down they are no where near the same. The bed of pins never penetrates the skin, but you can press it quite hard into the skin (I tend to use it on cellulite areas as it really seems to do something powerful to it), but Keliu is right in that it doesn't penetrate the skin at all. When I did use a derma roller it gave me really sensitive skin for a while, and I stopped using it as it was a bit painful and left little blood marks all over. Bed of pins doesn't do that so there's no where near the same thing. Just my opinion of course but figured it worth sharing.

Ottawa Shopper wrote:

Just wondering how can you have a "galvanic current" without actual electricity?
And I did not think metal could actually store any kind of charge without an electrical source?

Also you can get a blood infection from the tiniest scratch of any kind and possibly a skin infection from using things that are dirty too?

I know last year I had a small cut on a finger and got a blood infection from that.
So you really never know....

But can anyone here explain how the metal can store a electrical charge for such a long period of time?
it does not really seem possible.

cm5597 wrote:

You do need a current in order to load charges onto a piece of metal that initially has no net charge on it.

Once the current loads charges, you can disconnect it, so to speak. Then if you have the right type and configuration of metal, then that piece of metal can actually store charges (or equivalently, electrical energy). One class of devices that does this is called a capacitor. It's hard to describe this well without using more physics... In order for the charges to stay there, the capacitor or other metal device (which is a conductor) has to be surrounded by an insulator...for many purposes, air actually turns out to be a fairly good insulator (at least for a short to moderate amount of time).

I missed the rest of this conversation, but I just wanted to let you know that such a device that stores charges does exist and is widely used in technology today, e.g., in computers.

Though it sounds like the rolling bed of pins is great at making the skin flush with circulation, I would doubt that the rolling bed of pins induces any sort of detectable current through its metal prolongs. After all, to have current, you need to have a continual battery or power source, and there is none with the rolling bed of pins.

Quote:

Using the “Rolling Bed of Pins” causes electrophoresis of metals to take place., and the body assimilates the missing microelements. The term electrophoresis describes the migration of charged particles in an electric field. Electro refers to the energy of electricity. Phoresis, from the Greek phoros, means "to carry across." Thus electrophoresis is the process in which molecules are forced across skin, moved by an electrical current. The needle tips act as electrodes. During contact with the needle tips, this galvanic current passes through to the deeper skin layers, where biochemical reactions take place.

Oh, and in addition, as the above statements start to say, electrophoresis is the movement of charges in the presence of an electric field. This is indeed the correct description of that phenomenon.

HOWEVER, the rolling bed of pins does not appear to possess an electric field, and without an electric field, electrophoresis is not possible.

Note the above explanation failed to explain whether there was any electric field (which there can't be without a power source), what was producing the electric field, and what direction the electric field points in...etc.

summer2004 wrote:

Hi cm5597,

I really appreciate your view of the rolling bed of pins. Though I don't have any scientific background, I do grasp what you said.

Do you think that a roller made of non metal can do the job of the rolling bed of pins in terms of the blood circulation?

free skin care · Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:54 pm

summer2004 wrote:

Do you think that a roller made of non metal can do the job of the rolling bed of pins in terms of the blood circulation?

IMO any type of vigorous massage should increase blood circulation to the skin. I use a Vaculifter which works by using suction - and that works very well. There's also dry brushing and some people use a jade roller. I would think, though, that something which has an uneven surface would provide more aggressive stimulation.

free skin care · Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:04 am

Keliu,

I use Vaculift also but am not sure if I have already got used to it or the suction becomes weak, I am looking for an aggressive tool to do increase the blood circulation.

For the rolling bed of pins, I think that my mind was not clear when I posted the question; I should have said "if rolling bed of pins is more effective than rollers made of non metal".

free skin care · Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:22 am

summer2004 wrote:

Keliu,

I use Vaculift also but am not sure if I have already got used to it or the suction becomes weak, I am looking for an aggressive tool to do increase the blood circulation.

For the rolling bed of pins, I think that my mind was not clear when I posted the question; I should have said "if rolling bed of pins is more effective than rollers made of non metal".

Ok, sorry - I guess I still don't really understand your question. What non-metal roller are you referring to? The only one I know of is the jade roller I referred to above. BTW, I find the Vaculifter quite aggressive. My face turns very red whilst using it.

free skin care · Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:45 am

Keliu,

The non metal rollers that I referred to are like these two:

http://www.sourcingmap.com/pink-roller-beauty-facial-face-massage-tool-with-plastic-handle-p-42894.html

http://www.ebeautyblog.com/2009/05/face-slimming-roller-massager.html

free skin care · Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:47 am

Summer,

"Bed of needles" is a completely different tool then vaculifter. I have and happily use both.

Once I added them both my skin had gotten a lot better. If you google "Lyapko applicator face" - you will be able to find all the info about how and why it works, what it is used for, etc.

From one of their sites (http://www.applicatorlyapko.com/action.htm):

Quote:

2. Galvanic and electric stimulation. A human body is a complicated biocolloid which consist of electrolytes and contains both positive ions (cations) and negative ions (anions). Intensity of galvanic and electric stimulation is regulated by the body itself and depends on the quantity of electrolyte contained in the tissues (skin layers, subcutaneous fat, underlying structures). Painful and inflamed area of the skin is edematic, there is a lot of liquid in it, that is why contact of the area with the applicator results in intensive reaction during which a great deal of energy is released, it is sometimes accompanied with sweat exudation.

When the applicator contacts with the skin, a lot of physical and chemical changes, typical to those taking place under the action of direct currents, occur on the surface of the applicator needles. As a result, oxide layers are formed on the needles and the effect of galvanization is produced. At the same time, point galvanic currents of maximum value arise on the tips of the needles (it happens owing to the potential difference between the basic metal of the needle and the peripheral metals of the coating which are closed short-circuit (I1) (fig. 1). Besides, the galvanic currents between the needles made of different metals arise in the skin (I2), their value depends on the conductivity of the skin and the concentration of the electrolyte in it (fig. 2).

The sketch of the electric ionic currents arising on the tips of the metal needles coated with other metals, which is accompanied by electrophoresis (diffusion) of the metals into internal medium of the body

Fig. 1. The sketch of the electric ionic currents arising on the tips of the metal needles coated with other metals, which is accompanied by electrophoresis (diffusion) of the metals into internal medium of the body.

The sketch of the electric ionic currents arising on the tips of the needles and between the needles made of different metals, which is accompanied with electrophoresis (diffusion) of the metal into internal medium of the body

Fig. 2. The sketch of the electric ionic currents arising on the tips of the needles and between the needles made of different metals, which is accompanied with electrophoresis (diffusion) of the metal into internal medium of the body.

Galvanization improves metabolism, intensifies recovery processes, produces resolving effect, promotes production of the biologically active matters (acetylcholine, histamine, heparin, etc.), makes the nerve impulses conduction better, decreases pain sensitivity.

HTH

free skin care · Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:17 am

Hi Sigma,

Thx for the link.

I read similar info from Tonya's website; however, cm5597 holds a different perspective of the mechanism of this gadget.

free skin care · Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:05 am

For anyone interested I suggest to do a bit of reading - it provides reasonably clear explanations with pictures and details, which I could not copy.

I also wanted to mention that is also used in the holistic practices and medical non-holistic rehabilitation facilities.

I had seen excellent results, and I find most products and gadgets rather useless. I liked it enough to order another Lyapko Facial applicator on ebay for my mom.

Best of luck!

free skin care · Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:56 pm

CM5597 - is it possible that the metal rollers are causing static electricity from friction?

Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:20 am

Ottawa Shopper wrote:

cm5597 wrote:

Quote:

Using the “Rolling Bed of Pins” causes electrophoresis of metals to take place., and the body assimilates the missing microelements. The term electrophoresis describes the migration of charged particles in an electric field. Electro refers to the energy of electricity. Phoresis, from the Greek phoros, means "to carry across." Thus electrophoresis is the process in which molecules are forced across skin, moved by an electrical current. The needle tips act as electrodes. During contact with the needle tips, this galvanic current passes through to the deeper skin layers, where biochemical reactions take place.

Oh, and in addition, as the above statements start to say, electrophoresis is the movement of charges in the presence of an electric field. This is indeed the correct description of that phenomenon.

HOWEVER, the rolling bed of pins does not appear to possess an electric field, and without an electric field, electrophoresis is not possible.

Note the above explanation failed to explain whether there was any electric field (which there can't be without a power source), what was producing the electric field, and what direction the electric field points in...etc.

So, I guess I was correct in my assumption of the rolling bed of pins not holding a "charge".

Unless the literature for the "rolling bed of pins" is just badly written.
Could they possibly mean than the "pins" stimulate circulation, which makes the skin red and kind of plump and that it "recharges" the skin?
or gives it energy through circulation??

This is just a guess...have never read info on these devices.

I did get skooled in Universaty tho Wink

Keliu wrote:

Ottawa Shopper wrote:

So, I guess I was correct in my assumption of the rolling bed of pins not holding a "charge".

Unless the literature for the "rolling bed of pins" is just badly written.
Could they possibly mean than the "pins" stimulate circulation, which makes the skin red and kind of plump and that it "recharges" the skin?
or gives it energy through circulation??

This is just a guess...have never read info on these devices.

I did get skooled in Universaty tho Wink

I have a Japanese rolling device that is also supposed to provide a galvanic current - I think it's due to ions in the metals (I'll have to try and dig out the information).

I'm wondering if it's possible that the associated friction of rubbing the metals on the skin can give off electrical ions - but I really have no idea about all of this.

We're getting off track here - I think this info should be moved to the appropriate Rolling Pins thread.

free skin care · Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:42 am

you guys are killin' me...where's my credit card....

free skin care · Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:29 pm

summer2004 wrote:

Keliu,

The non metal rollers that I referred to are like these two:

pink-roller-beauty-facial-face-massage-tool-with-plastic-handle

face-slimming-roller-massager

I have the first one (pink roller facial massage tool), and think it's great! (Had to edit out the links, as I haven't made enough posts here yet.)The way the two rollers are angled, they gently lift up the skin a bit as it rolls over the face, giving a nice bit of extra stimulation. Leaves my face feeling tingly. For such an inexpensive little roller, I think it's one of the better ones out there. Just my two cents worth!

free skin care · Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:13 am

I continue to use my "bed of pins" roller and am fascinated with it. I use it all over my body and with special emphasis on my face both morning and night. I wish I knew more about exactly what it does because it feels so good to use and my skin is responding nicely. I looked on youtube to find some videos and found this one in English. The video is mainly about the health benefits.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fD3wuijfdN4

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