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Caris
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Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:37 am      Reply with quote
I have fine lines under my eyes, that disappear when well hydrated, but don't seem to stay hydrated for long. They got a lot worse after I tried retin A on then so although it's great for the rest of my face, it's not for me on the eye area. I've tried all sorts of eye creams, as well as using jojoba oil which I though would solve the problem, but for some reason seemed to dry my skin in that area even more. Has any one else experienced similar, and did you find an excellent long lasting hydrator? If not oil, I can't think what to turn to Confused
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Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:36 pm      Reply with quote
Jojoba is technically a wax not an oil, so it will act as an occlusive (barrier) but will not hydrate. Depending what you have already tried you might consider products containing urea, aloe vera, hyaluronic acid, olive squalane or lanolin. Generally a combination of humectant and emollient works best. What products are you using at present on that area - cleansers and all? If your skin is at all irritated - even at the cellular level - hydrating will be difficult because the healthy skin may be sacrificed to bolster the protective horny layer. Many commercial eye creams or gels contain ingredients that irritate (to plump up), remove excess water (to tighten) or occlusive silicones (to smooth). They are concerned with the short term look or feel of the skin, not necessarily it's long term health.

Are you hydrating from the inside: nine portions of fruit and veg, plenty of healthy fats (esp, long chain omega-3s) each day?

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Sensitivity, forehead pigmentation & elevens, nose & chin clogged pores. Topicals: Aloe vera, squalane, lactic acid, Myfawnie KinNiaNag HG: Weleda calendula, Lanolips, Guinot masque essentiel, Flexitol Naturals, Careprost. Gadgets: Vaughter dermarollers, Lightstim.
Autumn1995
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Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:17 pm      Reply with quote
I like to use Squalane oil (olive based) under my eyes. I do have eye treatments and a lot of them work but don't moisture.

It is cheap but works.

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Caris
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Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:19 pm      Reply with quote
Ah thank you, I didn't know that about jojoba, and couldn't understand why it wasn't working.

Inside wise everything is there, I'm probably up at about 10-12 fruit and veg a day as well as over three litres of water, I'm vegetarian, but get my omega 3's from various nuts and seeds daily.

At the moment I'm just using my normal moisturizer, which in the day is Dermalogica skin smoothing with the solar defense booster, and at night is Nivea Q10, as I'm trying to decide where to go next. Retinol eye creams haven't done anything for it, and as I didn't want to spend anymore I thought I'd seek some advice Smile
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Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:40 pm      Reply with quote
Caris wrote:
Ah thank you, I didn't know that about jojoba, and couldn't understand why it wasn't working.

Inside wise everything is there, I'm probably up at about 10-12 fruit and veg a day as well as over three litres of water, I'm vegetarian, but get my omega 3's from various nuts and seeds daily.

At the moment I'm just using my normal moisturizer, which in the day is Dermalogica skin smoothing with the solar defense booster, and at night is Nivea Q10, as I'm trying to decide where to go next. Retinol eye creams haven't done anything for it, and as I didn't want to spend anymore I thought I'd seek some advice Smile


What about your cleansers, exfoliants and cosmetics? Any hydroxy acids, sulphate surfactants or silicones? Commercial retinols can be irritant, best to steer clear given that their cousin Retin-A caused the issue IMO.

You probably need a marine algae supplement because humans can only convert ~10% of the short chain omega-3s found in nuts or seeds to the useable long chain form. Experts recommend 1-3g of combined EPA and DHA per day, which works out to a massive amount of raw ground seeds. Crying or Very sad

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Sensitivity, forehead pigmentation & elevens, nose & chin clogged pores. Topicals: Aloe vera, squalane, lactic acid, Myfawnie KinNiaNag HG: Weleda calendula, Lanolips, Guinot masque essentiel, Flexitol Naturals, Careprost. Gadgets: Vaughter dermarollers, Lightstim.
CindiLou
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Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:47 am      Reply with quote
I agree with Firefox & also recommend something urea based. I have tried all sorts with my dehydrated skin, including shea butter, rosehip oil, squalane, argan oil, aloe vera etc, etc, etc but the urea based moisturiser i use is unbeatable. Natural Vitamin E oil is another product that i do like to use though, mixed with my moisturiser and some rosehip oil as well sometimes too.
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Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:48 am      Reply with quote
Garden of Wisdom fountain of lycopene cream is great for this. I couldn't believe how smooth my under eye area felt after using this. Its really moisturizing but yet its a light fluffy cream.
Caris
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Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:32 am      Reply with quote
I use a gentle cleansing wash by Dermalogica, which I try not to use round my eyes. I am pretty much make up free under my eyes to be honest as well, as with them being so dry anything on them just exaggerates. Very very occasionally I will use a tiny bit of touche eclat in the inner corner, but it's rare. It makes total sense what you're saying about the silicone, I did try a cream that boasted silicone as it's most fabulous ingredient, and again I was left wondering why they were looking worse again.

So it looks like finding something urea based is a great option, any recommendations?

Smile
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Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:31 am      Reply with quote
Caris wrote:
I use a gentle cleansing wash by Dermalogica, which I try not to use round my eyes. I am pretty much make up free under my eyes to be honest as well, as with them being so dry anything on them just exaggerates. Very very occasionally I will use a tiny bit of touche eclat in the inner corner, but it's rare. It makes total sense what you're saying about the silicone, I did try a cream that boasted silicone as it's most fabulous ingredient, and again I was left wondering why they were looking worse again.

So it looks like finding something urea based is a great option, any recommendations?

Smile


Whatever you use on your face (and even your hands and hair!) is relevant when you are dealing with irritation or dryness. My atopic eczema flares from shampoo bubbles running down my arm, even tho they are rinsed immediately! Shock Washes mean wetting the skin which can actually dehydrate it further, so you might be safer with a cream/ lotion cleanser.

Eucerin is worth considering, the 5% urea face cream is deceptively light and a nice texture. Many moons ago it cleared the eczema I had near my eyes! The 5% night cream also has squalane and ceramides. Not tried any of their anti-ageing products, but you might be best sticking to the basics until you have resolved the dryness. I am interested to hear what CindiLou uses, not familiar with the products available in the US.

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Sensitivity, forehead pigmentation & elevens, nose & chin clogged pores. Topicals: Aloe vera, squalane, lactic acid, Myfawnie KinNiaNag HG: Weleda calendula, Lanolips, Guinot masque essentiel, Flexitol Naturals, Careprost. Gadgets: Vaughter dermarollers, Lightstim.
CindiLou
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Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:25 pm      Reply with quote
Firefox, where abouts are you? I'm in Adelaide, South Australia.
I have the most dehydrated skin imagineable i think. My skin's always been dry/dehydrated but earlier in 2011 i think i over exfoliated & damaged the skin's barrier. I'm almost embarrassed to tell you that i use a cream that is actually made for dry/cracked heels, all over my face morning and night! It's a local chemists home brand heel balm. I was a bit afraid to try it at first, thinking it would cause pimples but i was desperate! It's now a HG item for me & i can't be without it, lol! It's the only thing that stops me waking up with a tight, lined face! Very Happy
Caris
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Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:30 pm      Reply with quote
That's interesting, I have an emollient cream for extremely dry skin I was thinking of using, but I held back as I thought it was probably too heavy for eyes as it's so think. It's called Cetraben

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/medicines/100004683.html

I've used it sucessfully on my face before, just not under my eyes.
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Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:06 am      Reply with quote
Coconut Oil

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♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥
Firefox7275
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Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:19 am      Reply with quote
CindiLou wrote:
Firefox, where abouts are you? I'm in Adelaide, South Australia.
I have the most dehydrated skin imagineable i think. My skin's always been dry/dehydrated but earlier in 2011 i think i over exfoliated & damaged the skin's barrier. I'm almost embarrassed to tell you that i use a cream that is actually made for dry/cracked heels, all over my face morning and night! It's a local chemists home brand heel balm. I was a bit afraid to try it at first, thinking it would cause pimples but i was desperate! It's now a HG item for me & i can't be without it, lol! It's the only thing that stops me waking up with a tight, lined face! Very Happy


Laughing Nothing wrong with that, I sometimes use Flexitol Naturals heel balm (25% urea/ high lanolin) mixed with aloe vera gel on my hands! The only reason I haven't put it on my face is the essential oils which are pretty potent.

I have recently been trying to learn more about the stratus corneum's barrier function - yes I am a total geek. Embarassed Urea and lactic acid are part of the Natural Moisturising Factor inside the cells. The cells are 'glued together' with a mix of ceramides, long chain saturated fatty acids and cholesterol. We produce less of these fats as we age, especially cholesterol. Apparently we need a mixture (or the precusors) to repair the barrier fully, but I have been only been supplying one or two at a time. Any alkaline skincare or surfactants damage the barrier so we start from scratch. Crying or Very sad Perhaps you are unknowingly making the same mistakes I am?

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Sensitivity, forehead pigmentation & elevens, nose & chin clogged pores. Topicals: Aloe vera, squalane, lactic acid, Myfawnie KinNiaNag HG: Weleda calendula, Lanolips, Guinot masque essentiel, Flexitol Naturals, Careprost. Gadgets: Vaughter dermarollers, Lightstim.
Glamcat
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Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:55 pm      Reply with quote
Hi CindiLou Smile which heel balm are you using? I'm in Melbourne, Australia and I tend to have very very dry skin also - although people tell me my skin always looks fine but by the time I see anyone on any given day I've usually loaded it up with moisturizer, face oils and sunscreen lol Laughing lately I've tried using less moisturizers and oils thinking I've probably made my skin lazy by hydrating it so much that it has just learnt to stop hydrating itself and producing its own oils - this is helping a bit, but I'm thinking a heel balm for emergency situations probably wouldnt hurt Wink


CindiLou wrote:
Firefox, where abouts are you? I'm in Adelaide, South Australia.
I have the most dehydrated skin imagineable i think. My skin's always been dry/dehydrated but earlier in 2011 i think i over exfoliated & damaged the skin's barrier. I'm almost embarrassed to tell you that i use a cream that is actually made for dry/cracked heels, all over my face morning and night! It's a local chemists home brand heel balm. I was a bit afraid to try it at first, thinking it would cause pimples but i was desperate! It's now a HG item for me & i can't be without it, lol! It's the only thing that stops me waking up with a tight, lined face! Very Happy
Nonie aka AD
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Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:49 pm      Reply with quote
I find water-based moisturizers to be drying no matter where they are used. I don't even use water-based moisturizers to moisturize the skin on my body; I use coconut oil as my body moisturizer.

As far as the under eye area, nothing works better than Vaseline IMO. Doesn't make my eyes puffy, doesn't make them look lined. A few friends have tried this and reported improvement too.

Some people get milia from using oily products. Eva Fraser who introduced me to using Vaseline under the eyes, mainly before doing eye exercises and at bedtime (or was that someone else), also believes in using nothing at all. I've done both, and my eyes have done OK with that.

I think sometimes we overdo things. There are very few pores under the eyes which IMO seems to say God felt we didn't need a lot of sebum (ie moisturizing) there, so I think the fact that people are so fond of smothering their eyes with creams etc is why that area seems to pose the most problems. It's like you create this dependency that was never necessary in the first place: kinda like the junkie who can't do with coke when had he not messed with it in the first place, he'd find he never needed it at all. And if that isn't the cleverest trick the cosmetic companies ever played: give them something that makes them need more of it and you will be sure to stay in business.

Everyone I know who doesn't fuss over the under eye area has better looking eyes than people who feel they need umpteen things. Less is more, IMO.
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Sun Jan 01, 2012 12:07 am      Reply with quote
Glamcat, it's Chemmart. Don't know if Melbourne have Chemmart chemists?
I know it probably sounds bizarre to put this on your face but i can't find anything that works as well for hydrating. I've been using it for several months now & has not caused any pimples or milia. Smile
The main ingredients are water, urea, cetearyl alcohol, lanolin, petrolatum, glyceryl stearate. At the end of the ingredient list is peppermint oil & lime oil but these haven't caused me any irritation. I usually mix a little rosehip oil with it just to help it go on smoothly.

Firefox, which lactic acid product do you use?
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Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:14 am      Reply with quote
CindiLou wrote:
Glamcat, it's Chemmart. Don't know if Melbourne have Chemmart chemists?
I know it probably sounds bizarre to put this on your face but i can't find anything that works as well for hydrating. I've been using it for several months now & has not caused any pimples or milia. Smile
The main ingredients are water, urea, cetearyl alcohol, lanolin, petrolatum, glyceryl stearate. At the end of the ingredient list is peppermint oil & lime oil but these haven't caused me any irritation. I usually mix a little rosehip oil with it just to help it go on smoothly.

Firefox, which lactic acid product do you use?


Sounds like we have similar skin types! My skin likes rosehip oil too, but it REALLY likes rosehip emulsified in the hand with aloe vera.

It's the combination of the urea and lanolin that is working for you IMO - lanolin supplies cholesterol and saturated fatty acids similar to our own and is non-comedogenic. It may well be locally sourced too! Very Happy My skin likes lanolin but, again, it loves lanolin creams mixed with aloe.

I am currently doing light lactic acid peels, so not in a moisturiser. I am considering CeraVe doctored with a little extra lactic acid, or possibly Balneum cream (NOT the Balneum Plus) which contains urea, lactic acid and ceramides.

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Sensitivity, forehead pigmentation & elevens, nose & chin clogged pores. Topicals: Aloe vera, squalane, lactic acid, Myfawnie KinNiaNag HG: Weleda calendula, Lanolips, Guinot masque essentiel, Flexitol Naturals, Careprost. Gadgets: Vaughter dermarollers, Lightstim.
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Sun Jan 01, 2012 2:17 pm      Reply with quote
Firefox, i'm going to try your aloe/rosehip idea. I've only got Fruit of the Earth aloe though & i think it may not be pure enough. I've tried it on it's own & it didn't help.
Where are you thinking of getting your Balneum cream from?
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Sun Jan 01, 2012 2:48 pm      Reply with quote
CindiLou wrote:
Firefox, i'm going to try your aloe/rosehip idea. I've only got Fruit of the Earth aloe though & i think it may not be pure enough. I've tried it on it's own & it didn't help.
Where are you thinking of getting your Balneum cream from?


Aloe on it's own can feel sticky, drying or mask-like, it contains natural humectants which can draw water from the skin if used alone (urea is also a humectant BTW). Once you emulsify with a light oil, they seem to help each other absorb ... no idea how that works! Maybe try it on your hands before risking your face?

I found the Balneum on Amazon and on eBay but this brand is also in drugstores here in the UK. Weirdly Balneum Plus has been around for years, but the Balneum cream appears to be new-ish, as it contains ceramides ... maybe it is a reformulation. This is the one I am considering
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mistrys-Balneum-Cream-50g/dp/B003JHYRVE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1325454166&sr=8-2
If I try it I will post a review here on EDS and let you know. Smile

ETA: Googling "Balneum ceramides" suggests the product is called Balneum Intensive in some countries.

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Sensitivity, forehead pigmentation & elevens, nose & chin clogged pores. Topicals: Aloe vera, squalane, lactic acid, Myfawnie KinNiaNag HG: Weleda calendula, Lanolips, Guinot masque essentiel, Flexitol Naturals, Careprost. Gadgets: Vaughter dermarollers, Lightstim.
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Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:06 pm      Reply with quote
Oh thanks CindiLou Very Happy yeah we have Chemmart Chemists here - so you're saying this is their own branded product / generic line? It sounds good - I know a lot of "gurus" poo-poo petrolatum, but it seems to go fine on my skin without negative repercussions Wink

CindiLou wrote:
Glamcat, it's Chemmart. Don't know if Melbourne have Chemmart chemists?
I know it probably sounds bizarre to put this on your face but i can't find anything that works as well for hydrating. I've been using it for several months now & has not caused any pimples or milia. Smile
The main ingredients are water, urea, cetearyl alcohol, lanolin, petrolatum, glyceryl stearate. At the end of the ingredient list is peppermint oil & lime oil but these haven't caused me any irritation. I usually mix a little rosehip oil with it just to help it go on smoothly.

Firefox, which lactic acid product do you use?
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Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:11 pm      Reply with quote
I agree with everything you have said Nonie for sure Wink water-based moisturizers just seem to irritate my skin and exacerbates de-hydration! Shock

And I find people with the best skin use nothing or not much at all -- if you ask them what they use, they usually say something like Dove Soap to wash their face and little more than sorbolene to moisturize or sunscreen, and that's if they can be bothered! lol Laughing

I've definitely come to accept that less is probably far more effective than more too Wink

Nonie aka AD wrote:
I find water-based moisturizers to be drying no matter where they are used. I don't even use water-based moisturizers to moisturize the skin on my body; I use coconut oil as my body moisturizer.

As far as the under eye area, nothing works better than Vaseline IMO. Doesn't make my eyes puffy, doesn't make them look lined. A few friends have tried this and reported improvement too.

Some people get milia from using oily products. Eva Fraser who introduced me to using Vaseline under the eyes, mainly before doing eye exercises and at bedtime (or was that someone else), also believes in using nothing at all. I've done both, and my eyes have done OK with that.

I think sometimes we overdo things. There are very few pores under the eyes which IMO seems to say God felt we didn't need a lot of sebum (ie moisturizing) there, so I think the fact that people are so fond of smothering their eyes with creams etc is why that area seems to pose the most problems. It's like you create this dependency that was never necessary in the first place: kinda like the junkie who can't do with coke when had he not messed with it in the first place, he'd find he never needed it at all. And if that isn't the cleverest trick the cosmetic companies ever played: give them something that makes them need more of it and you will be sure to stay in business.

Everyone I know who doesn't fuss over the under eye area has better looking eyes than people who feel they need umpteen things. Less is more, IMO.
CindiLou
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Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:28 am      Reply with quote
[quote="Glamcat"]Oh thanks CindiLou Very Happy yeah we have Chemmart Chemists here - so you're saying this is their own branded product / generic line? It sounds good - I know a lot of "gurus" poo-poo petrolatum, but it seems to go fine on my skin without negative repercussions Wink

Yes Glamcat, it's Chemmart's own branded product. I'd like to find a product that works for my skin that doesn't contain petrolatum but until then i'll have to keep buying it.Smile
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Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:38 am      Reply with quote
I love Babor sensational eyes cream.
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Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:48 am      Reply with quote
I have found that karin Herzog's eye cream has worked wonders for me.
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Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:02 pm      Reply with quote
My under eye lines and crepiness have improved greatly since I began using organic unrefined coconut oil (from health food store) to remove eye makeup. I follow with Josie Maran Argan Oil after
cleansing with my OCM mixture. I love this routine---mascara melts without rubbing--no stinging for my sensitive eyes. My skin really love the Argan oil. My under eye area looks better than it have in 15 years.
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