At home peel recs? Never had a peel before..
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free skin care · Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:15 am

aside from an Oil of Olay thingy that I paid $20.00 for. I don't even know what kind I should get. My friend who has oily skin gets Glycolic peels at the derm. I'd rather go the "at home" route.

I'm 54, enlarged pores, normal to dryish skin, some hyperpigmentation, slightly sensitive (I think due to dryness), wrinkles....(sigh). I went to skinobsession.com (formerly original skincare?) but I don't even know the difference between the different types of peels. If I remember correctly, I tried the AHA Souffle 12% at one point and I had some tingling with that, don't know how relevant that is.

I know nothing is going to help with deep wrinkles or sagging but even some smoothing would be great. Also is it possible to buy a higher percentage peel and dilute to start out?

Any advise?

free skin care · Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:47 am

You may want to look into lactic acid. It's much more hydrating than glycolic. Glycolic acid dries out skin which makes skin look older. Also, when buying a peel, make sure you know the pH of the product as this determines its strength. You can buy a stronger peel and then dilute it. I know people also apply one layer of a milder peel, wait a few minutes then apply another layer for a stronger peel.

I just did my first peel 3 days ago, 30% lactic acid at pH below 2.2 for 3 minutes. Afterwards, I applied squalane oil mixed with Skin Actives Antioxidant Booster. There was no redness or peeling. I think post-peel you should apply something very gentle. Maybe try a very thin layer of olive oil, not enough to saturate the skin.

free skin care · Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:45 am

onmyboat wrote:

You may want to look into lactic acid. It's much more hydrating than glycolic. Glycolic acid dries out skin which makes skin look older. Also, when buying a peel, make sure you know the pH of the product as this determines its strength. You can buy a stronger peel and then dilute it. I know people also apply one layer of a milder peel, wait a few minutes then apply another layer for a stronger peel.

I just did my first peel 3 days ago, 30% lactic acid at pH below 2.2 for 3 minutes. Afterwards, I applied squalane oil mixed with Skin Actives Antioxidant Booster. There was no redness or peeling. I think post-peel you should apply something very gentle. Maybe try a very thin layer of olive oil, not enough to saturate the skin.

Thanks so much for the response. Did you notice a difference in your skin? What would one use as a diluting agent?

Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:28 am

Look into makeupartistschoice.com, it's where I've gotten my peels and they are great. The real thing. They have lactic acid peels there, too. I have really oily skin so I've gotten high strength glycolic acid peels (has not dried up my skin), but for you I'm sure they have something. Different types and different strengths. Can't go wrong.

They have good explanations about what each type of peel does and I believe it helps making an informed decision. Their customer service is great, too. She helped me pick a peel and answered some questions. I only had to call once.

free skin care · Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:56 pm

I haven't noticed a difference in my skin, but my peel was very gentle as it was my first time.

As for diluting, you can use distilled water. But I think diluting can get tricky because you can't get just take % into account, ie diluting 1/2 88% lactic acid with 1/2 distilled water produces 44% lactic acid because the pH of the final product also matters. Distilled water has a pH of about 7. I'm not sure how mixing 2 ingredients with different pHs affects the pH of the final product, so make sure to research it if you decide to buy a higher %. I remember reading that AHAs above pH of 4-5 are basically useless.

free skin care · Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:33 pm

I do lactic acid peels all the time. I get mine from dianayvonne.com. Her Lactic acid is low ph (1.9). I would start out with 10% lactic acid following her directions. Also, you need to get a cleanser that repairs your skin barrier. I use the rose hip cleanser on Diana's site. I have used it for 8 years and would use nothing else. Currently I mix 10% and 40% together to get about a 25% peel. Take it slow and be patient and you will see results. Good luck.
I have linked her lactic acid below.
http://www.dianayvonne.com/product/CSE70_4/Lactic-Acid-10-4-oz.html

free skin care · Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:51 pm

Another vote for lactic acid! LA is naturally found in skin, hydrates as it exfoliates, has the largest molecule so is considered very gentle, can reduce hyperpigmentation with regular use. I have sensitive skin, atopic eczema, contact dermatitis and use LA conservatively with no problems (I do not apply to active eczema obviously!).

You can purchase 88% LA and dilute down to any strength you want with water and neutralise with water until you get to the higher percentages. You don't need to worry about pH doing it this way: you are simply working on percentage and time, and you know there are no buffers or other additives. Start out diluting one to three which gives a mild ~22% solution, apply with a cotton wool pad, leave for no more than three minutes, less if you feel nervous. Lactic acid doesn't tend to make you visibly peel, because it does not dry out and kill the surface layer in the same way as harsher acids. But you should have smoother skin right away and of course some pinkness.

The skincare you use around the peel is highly relevant. Cleansing no alkaline soaps or sulphate surfactants as this strips the skin too much and leaves it the wrong pH. In any case both are a disaster for dry or sensitive skin. After a peel be VERY careful what you allow to touch your skin; you will have damaged the barrier function which can allow weak opportunistic bacteria to gain entry, and you may be more sensitive to irritants. Preferably use a simple lotion or oil cleanser, a moisturiser with very few ingredients or one that helps repair the skin barrier such as Cerave Cream.

Large pores can indicate dehydration and/ or congestion, what skincare products are you using at present? Have you tried a super hydrating, repairing anti-ageing routine? Are you consistently meeting or exceeding all your government's recommendations for healthy eating and lifestyle?

free skin care · Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:55 pm

Thanks to all for all the great info! Will lactic acid peels give the same results as glycolic since there is no peeling? My friend who gets glycolic peels every few months loves them but she also has oily skin. Is that why glycolic would be better for her and lactic for me?

I've just recently started the OCM and am loving it. I'm using 40/40/20 of grapeseed oil, sweet almond oil and castor oil. For moisturizing I just use 50/50 of the grapeseed and sweet almond oil. The grapeseed oil I believe has made a huge difference in my undereye area where I used to have a lot of little bumps (milia maybe?)which are now pretty much gone.

I've kind of fallen off the healthy eating wagon and need to start paying more attention to that.

free skin care · Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:29 am

LA does not make you visibly peel, not does not make you peel. No LA and GA do not give the same results, they are different chemicals with different properties. From your wording it seems your friend is having a professional peel and has experience. You want to do a home peel, having no experience. These are as relevant as your skin type and goals.

IMO clean up your diet and perhaps considering adding some supplements before you start doing peels. This can reduce sensitivity and dryness, will slow down or even help reverse ageing, and will supply your skin with all the nutrients it needs to repair and regenerate. Of particular relevance to skin are sugar and refined/ white carbs, oily fish, fruit and vegetables, protein little and often.

Pleased to hear you are loving OCM! Bear in mind some of the benefits will simply be down to removing your previous cleanser from your routine. May I ask why you are chose grapeseed which is an astringent recommended for oily skin? You might consider moisturising with a product that supplies the lipids naturally found in the skin barrier - cholesterol, long chain saturated fatty acids and ceramides.

free skin care · Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:54 pm

Firefox7275 wrote:

LA does not make you visibly peel, not does not make you peel. No LA and GA do not give the same results, they are different chemicals with different properties. From your wording it seems your friend is having a professional peel and has experience. You want to do a home peel, having no experience. These are as relevant as your skin type and goals.

IMO clean up your diet and perhaps considering adding some supplements before you start doing peels. This can reduce sensitivity and dryness, will slow down or even help reverse ageing, and will supply your skin with all the nutrients it needs to repair and regenerate. Of particular relevance to skin are sugar and refined/ white carbs, oily fish, fruit and vegetables, protein little and often.

Pleased to hear you are loving OCM! Bear in mind some of the benefits will simply be down to removing your previous cleanser from your routine. May I ask why you are chose grapeseed which is an astringent recommended for oily skin? You might consider moisturising with a product that supplies the lipids naturally found in the skin barrier - cholesterol, long chain saturated fatty acids and ceramides.

I'm not sure where I saw the suggestion for grapeseed. I do know that I saw it was good for milia so I may have run with that. Suggestions for a more appropriate blend would be much appreciated. Also, I really like moisturizing with the oils so any help in that area also?

I just started taking Biotin 5000 mcg three times a day. (asked the doc I work for what he'd suggest for skin/nails), I take a multi-vit, Calcium, Vit D (not much sunshine here in PA)and Estroven when I remember.

"You want to do a home peel, having no experience. These are as relevant as your skin type and goals"

I understand this. I just wondered if a GA is more for oily skin. Are the suggestions of LA coming from my description of my skin or because I'm a beginner?

Sorry...so many questions!

free skin care · Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:13 am

It sounds like the suggestions are probably taking into account all the points you mentioned.
Yeah, grapeseed MIGHT be too drying for you but if you don't have a lot of congestion, I'd take down the castor in your ocm oil before anything else. I'm not sure whether grapeseed is all THAT drying, so if your skin likes it, you can just take that down a bit too, and maybe add olive or jojoba if you want.
And LA is "much more hydrating than glycolic", from what onmyboat said, and you'd mentioned dryness.

You seem pretty anxious to do a peel. I know they're all the rage right now, but have you tried vitamin c or retin a yet? A lot of people find those extremely helpful on their own for the kinds of issues you want to address, and some do those leading up to a peel anyway in order to "prepare" their skin. If I were you I'd try those first... dry skin sounds like it'd be more vulnerable to the risk of damage from peels.

And the advice about cleaning up your diet, adding supplements & being well hydrated, esp. leading up to a peel to aid with the crucial healing process, is excellent advice we don't see often enough!

free skin care · Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:27 am

Questions are a good thing, definitely prefer that to people just taking crazy risks and popping by when their skin has freaked out. I am afraid this post is going to ask more questions than it answers!!

Why are you taking individual micro-nutrients if you are also taking a multi and (hopefully) getting them from your diet? Does the doctor know EXACTLY what you are currently taking or was this a chat in passing? Is there are a medical reason you are supplementing calcium without magnesium? Are you aware there is calcium, vitamin D and numerous other vitamins/ minerals in your Estroven? Sorry: I should probably confess lifestyle healthcare is what I do for a living so I get twitchy when people start double and triple dosing micro-nutrients.

My recommendation for LA was based on your skin type, your goals AND your experience: LA ticks every box except wrinkles (it can improve fine lines). Once you scale up the percentage and see what LA does and does not do for you, you can reassess. TCA peels are often considered the 'gold standard' for wrinkles but IMO that is not for the fainthearted.
http://www.skincaretalk.com/anti-aging/21944-jess-tca-nl-folds-jaws-look.html
Remember it is not necessarily an either/ or situation with acids - peels can be mixed, layered, used on different areas or used seasonally. IMO lactic acid is wonderful to have in your toolkit because it is suitable for body, neck and face. The neck can be a nightmare with peels that actually dry your skin so that it comes off in strips, because it's next to impossible to keep that area still while you heal.

OCM ... the most common oils are castor with either regular olive or jojoba oil, which is technically a wax! But IMO each ingredient should be working double duty if possible: cleansing AND hydrating or hydrating AND anti-ageing. You might consider a little rosehip seed (anti-ageing/ vitamin A) OR borage oil (the omega-6 GLA) OR olive squalane (chemically similar to a major component of sebum) OR a blend. But be aware that no plant oil can supply your skin with the lipids found in the skin barrier. Cholesterol production particularly falls as we age: if you prefer natural to commercial you might consider alternating your oils with a natural product containing lanolin. If not I can recommend emulsifying the oil you use as an occlusive with some aloe vera gel, just in your hand. This absorbs so much better than oil alone, and research shows aloe has anti-inflammatory/ healing/ collagen inducing properties. I'm not the right person to advise on percentages of each oil as I have not tried them all in that context, but there is a long OCM thread over on the DIY board that is worth trawling through slowly. Are you eating plenty of oily fish BTW?

free skin care · Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:53 am

LoriA wrote:

It sounds like the suggestions are probably taking into account all the points you mentioned.
Yeah, grapeseed MIGHT be too drying for you but if you don't have a lot of congestion, I'd take down the castor in your ocm oil before anything else. I'm not sure whether grapeseed is all THAT drying, so if your skin likes it, you can just take that down a bit too, and maybe add olive or jojoba if you want.
And LA is "much more hydrating than glycolic", from what onmyboat said, and you'd mentioned dryness.

You seem pretty anxious to do a peel. I know they're all the rage right now, but have you tried vitamin c or retin a yet? A lot of people find those extremely helpful on their own for the kinds of issues you want to address, and some do those leading up to a peel anyway in order to "prepare" their skin. If I were you I'd try those first... dry skin sounds like it'd be more vulnerable to the risk of damage from peels.

And the advice about cleaning up your diet, adding supplements & being well hydrated, esp. leading up to a peel to aid with the crucial healing process, is excellent advice we don't see often enough!

I dropped down the grapeseed oil with this batch when I mixed it with the sweet almond oil.

My skin isn't really dry. Probably more normal with some tendencies toward dryness but not really any flaking or anything associated with dryness.

Doesn't a peel pretty much do what it takes Retin-A a long time to do?

free skin care · Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:26 am

Firefox7275 wrote:

Questions are a good thing, definitely prefer that to people just taking crazy risks and popping by when their skin has freaked out. I am afraid this post is going to ask more questions than it answers!!

Why are you taking individual micro-nutrients if you are also taking a multi and (hopefully) getting them from your diet? Does the doctor know EXACTLY what you are currently taking or was this a chat in passing? Is there are a medical reason you are supplementing calcium without magnesium? Are you aware there is calcium, vitamin D and numerous other vitamins/ minerals in your Estroven?

>I'm not too sure how relevant the Estroven is >flashes have died off.

>The Vit D is just because of where I live. We >do a lot of testing for Vit D deficiencies in >our office and just about eveyone comes back >low since there's not a lot of sunshine here >most of the year.

>The Calcium is just one of those chewable >chocolate things for osteoporosis as a >preventative measure. I just looked at the box >and I'm actually surprised there's no >magnesium in there. If I remember correctly, >either my gyne or cardiologist recommended >that one.

>The Biotin dosage was recommended by the doc >also when I asked him what I could do to keep >my nails/hair nice.

>I don't take any prescription meds and I >actually forget to take all of the above more >often than I remember to take them.

>My diet is definitely lacking. I do eat a lot >of tuna and get grief at work all the time due >to the smell...haha. My diet is pretty much >lean proteins and lots of veggies, I try to >really watch my intake of white rice, >potatoes, white bread, processed foods. That >being said, I'm probably deficient due to not >eating enough. I'm one of those people who >gets by on one meal a day, skips meals, etc. >Oh yeah, and coffee is my * spam alert * and I >despise drinking water unless I'm at the gym.

Sorry: I should probably confess lifestyle healthcare is what I do for a living so I get twitchy when people start double and triple dosing micro-nutrients.

My recommendation for LA was based on your skin type, your goals AND your experience: LA ticks every box except wrinkles (it can improve fine lines). Once you scale up the percentage and see what LA does and does not do for you, you can reassess. TCA peels are often considered the 'gold standard' for wrinkles but IMO that is not for the fainthearted.
http://www.skincaretalk.com/anti-aging/21944-jess-tca-nl-folds-jaws-look.html
Remember it is not necessarily an either/ or situation with acids - peels can be mixed, layered, used on different areas or used seasonally. IMO lactic acid is wonderful to have in your toolkit because it is suitable for body, neck and face. The neck can be a nightmare with peels that actually dry your skin so that it comes off in strips, because it's next to impossible to keep that area still while you heal.

OCM ... the most common oils are castor with either regular olive or jojoba oil, which is technically a wax! But IMO each ingredient should be working double duty if possible: cleansing AND hydrating or hydrating AND anti-ageing. You might consider a little rosehip seed (anti-ageing/ vitamin A) OR borage oil (the omega-6 GLA) OR olive squalane (chemically similar to a major component of sebum) OR a blend. But be aware that no plant oil can supply your skin with the lipids found in the skin barrier. Cholesterol production particularly falls as we age: if you prefer natural to commercial you might consider alternating your oils with a natural product containing lanolin. If not I can recommend emulsifying the oil you use as an occlusive with some aloe vera gel, just in your hand. This absorbs so much better than oil alone, and research shows aloe has anti-inflammatory/ healing/ collagen inducing properties. I'm not the right person to advise on percentages of each oil as I have not tried them all in that context, but there is a long OCM thread over on the DIY board that is worth trawling through slowly. Are you eating plenty of oily fish BTW?

I actually had rose hip oil on my list but couldn't find it locally. I'll have to peruse that thread tonight.

Thanks so much for taking the time to answer all my newbie questions.

free skin care · Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:17 am

What I am reading really concerns me. Please don't consider any peels, vitamin C or Retin-A at present. These all force skin turnover when you are not giving your body the building blocks of healthy cells. Much skin irritation/ inflammation/ dryness/ dehydration is invisible; by the time one can see flaking our largest organ is struggling to function correctly.

Did the gynae, cardiologist or work colleague know what your full supplement regime comprises, whether you actually remember to take it all or not? Sometimes you are taking THREE products containing calcium and TWO products containing vitamin D, yet probably under the RDA for magnesium (multis rarely contain 100%). Magnesium is important as a partner to calcium in bone health BUT it opposes calcium in muscle contraction and is key in many other bodily processes notably stress management. I have no problem with you taking the Estroven, in fact it contained some useful antioxidants and isoflavones, both of which can help with skin ageing.

It's the regime as a whole which has duplications and gaping holes. More so if you are exercising regularly because this increases your need for every nutrient and antioxidants to repair the damage. You do not need to drink water - I loathe it - but you do need to drink fluids which are not soda, alcohol or caffeine. You can get a huge amount by upping your fruit and veg to the recommended nine a day ... but you won't hold onto that water without carbohydrates. Caffeine is not the devil and I am not suggesting you quit, but higher intakes put your body into a constant state of stress, reduces sleep quality, causes blood sugar peaks and troughs AND suppresses the appetite.

Canned tuna does not count as oily fish unfortunately. Long chain omega-3s are critical to the health of every cell in the body, weight management and are powerful anti-inflammatories. Lean meat and veggies will not supply the full complement of minerals - you need dairy products, wholegrains, nuts, seeds, beans and lentils for those.

I do apologise for sounding like an old nag; I became ill partly by mistreating my body and not heeding the small signs that it was struggling. It was after that illness that I switched from another branch of healthcare to lifestyle. Embarassed

free skin care · Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:33 pm

Hi Lorraine. It sounds like you're getting a lot of strict instruction here, so I'm just going to step back.

In answer to your question though, in a nutshell, no, vit c and retin-a do a ton of helpful things for skin over time, that peels won't do. Worth reading up on and doing some research, as not everyone is in agreement here. You'll find that there've been a lot of knowledgeable people who've posted information which will be of interest to you in other discussion threads. All the best.

free skin care · Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:58 am

Lorraineg57 wrote:

Thanks so much for the response. Did you notice a difference in your skin? What would one use as a diluting agent?

Hi, just wanted to update you. I've done 3 lactic acid 30% one week apart so far. My overall quality of skin has definitely improved. I have orange peel skin, and that has diminished. My skin tone is more even. My acne marks have also slightly faded (but only like 15%). These are pretty awesome results considering how little effort it requires.

free skin care · Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:27 am

Thanks for the update! I still haven't ordered anything but I'm definitely going to try it.

Thanks!

free skin care · Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:00 pm

When I read that you are ready to explore peels, I got excited.
I think you need to see if you daily routine is good first.
I would use a milk cleanser that is gentle enough and you don't need water. Clarisonic would be good, but you don't have to get it. Use a moisturizing, calming lotion. Use vitamin C serum ...a reliable brand and that will cost $$$$, but a good investment. Using sunscreen is a good idea.

After all that, perhaps you can start with peels for an extra boost to improving your pores, and skin complexion.

free skin care · Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:30 am

Hi!

I LOVELOVE Neostrata's Peel (in slim glass jar). It smells like almonds! Very gentle and can use once per week with really smoothing results.

I recently purchased a Clarisonic and LOVE it. Really keeps skin nice, even, and exfoliated.

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