Diet and Skin Health- Raw? Vegetarian? Paleo?
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free skin care · Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:48 pm

I am currently in a raw chef certification program. Over the last 5 months, I have learned some very interesting things about enzymes, vitamins, minerals, etc and overall health. Of course my teachers are proponents of a completely raw diet-- no meat allowed. I have read Tonya's raw food website and find her a compelling case study for the benefits of raw food (as well as Mimi Kirk's). However, I also personally know quite a few strict vegans with skin that looks a bit stressed-- dehydrated, lined-- and they are in their 20s, 30s and early 40s.

I can't help but wonder if we don't actually need meat for healthy skin. I am convinced that vegetables and fruits should make up a large part of our diets, and I do agree that most grains and oils are rancid if pressed or made into flour, so we should generally steer clear of these. I also believe dairy is inflammatory and acid-producing and should be generally avoided or used in moderation. But I am on the fence about meat. I am leaning toward believing that organic, free range meat is a necessary component of a healthy human diet-- I am wondering what other EDS forum members think. (I am hoping for more of a discussion on nutritional pros and cons and less about personal belief ssystems on whether or not eating meat is morally right) Smile

free skin care · Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:46 pm

jenp7 wrote:

I am currently in a raw chef certification program. Over the last 5 months, I have learned some very interesting things about enzymes, vitamins, minerals, etc and overall health. Of course my teachers are proponents of a completely raw diet-- no meat allowed. I have read Tonya's raw food website and find her a compelling case study for the benefits of raw food (as well as Mimi Kirk's). However, I also personally know quite a few strict vegans with skin that looks a bit stressed--dehydrated, lined-- and they are in their 20s, 30s and early 40s.

I can't help but wonder if we don't actually need meat for healthy skin. I am convinced that vegetables and fruits should make up a large part of our diets, and I do agree that most grains and oils are rancid if pressed or made into flour, so we should generally steer clear of these. I also believe dairy is inflammatory and acid-producing and should be generally avoided or used in moderation. But I am on the fence about meat. I am leaning toward believing that organic, free range meat is a necessary component of a healthy human diet-- I am wondering what other EDS forum members think. (I am hoping for more of a discussion on nutritional pros and cons and less about personal belief ssystems on whether or not eating meat is morally right) Smile

Hey Jen,

One, being vegetarian or vegan does not automatically make you more or less healthy than someone who eats meat. There is a lot of black-and-white thinking on this out there...from both sides. I would encourage you to think of it as a continuum--a spectrum. Of course, a person who eats <5% meat but eats mostly fruits, vegetables, and other whole foods is going to be a lot healthier than a vegan who eats a bit more processed food than s/he should.

Second, you don't need meat to be healthy or for good skin health...and conversely you don't need to avoid meat to be healthy...both are myths propagated by the die-hards on either side. As for you don't need meat to be healthy, the American Dietetic Association ( a conservative organization) reviewed the science on this many years ago and concluded that

ADA wrote:

...appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes. A vegetarian diet is defined as one that does not include meat (including fowl) or seafood, or products containing those foods. This article reviews the current data related to key nutrients for vegetarians including protein, n-3 fatty acids, iron, zinc, iodine, calcium, and vitamins D and B-12. A vegetarian diet can meet current recommendations for all of these nutrients. In some cases, supplements or fortified foods can provide useful amounts of important nutrients. An evidence-based review showed that vegetarian diets can be nutritionally adequate in pregnancy and result in positive maternal and infant health outcomes. The results of an evidence-based review showed that a vegetarian diet is associated with a lower risk of death from ischemic heart disease. Vegetarians also appear to have lower low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels, lower blood pressure, and lower rates of hypertension and type 2 diabetes than nonvegetarians. Furthermore, vegetarians tend to have a lower body mass index and lower overall cancer rates. Features of a vegetarian diet that may reduce risk of chronic disease include lower intakes of saturated fat and cholesterol and higher intakes of fruits, vegetables, whole grains, nuts, soy products, fiber, and phytochemicals. The variability of dietary practices among vegetarians makes individual assessment of dietary adequacy essential. In addition to assessing dietary adequacy, food and nutrition professionals can also play key roles in educating vegetarians about sources of specific nutrients, food purchase and preparation, and dietary modifications to meet their needs.

Reference: http://www.eatright.org/about/content.aspx?id=8357

However, having said this, there are some nutritional mistakes that meat-eaters tend to make more than vegetarians, and some nutritional mistakes that vegetarians tend to make more than meat-eaters. I won't review the former here. But let me mention three mistakes that a significant fraction of vegetarians/vegans make:

* Don't supplement with vitamin B12 (the only essential vitamin that we currently know that you can't get from plant foods)

* Don't get enough vitamin D from the sun or supplements (important for skin health!)

* Have a more skewed omega-6 to omega-3 ratio because they eat more vegetable oils or way too many nuts and seeds (the latter is a HUGE problem among raw foodists)--this majorly affects the skin, in my experience.

These are, of course, big problems in all eating communities (incl. meat-eating). For example, about 35% of people in the Boston area (where I used to live) are vitamin D deficient, and I think there are also comparable numbers of people who have vitamin B12 deficiencies. But these problems tend to be bigger in the average vegetarian/vegan vs. the average meat-eater. The both good and bad thing, though, is that they are super-easy problems to fix.

Of course, a small fraction of vegetarians don't get enough of a few other nutrients, such as iron or zinc. But (1) that is why the ADA emphasizes that vegetarian diets be well-planned, and (2) there are easy to fix problems with some nutritional guidance.

I've been vegan for over a decade, and I certainly have made a few of the classic mistakes. So let me know if you need any help whatsoever or have any concerns, whether on a vegetarian/vegan diet or simply just a mostly plant-based diet Smile

free skin care · Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:47 pm

For transparency I am an omnivore who works in/ qualified in lifestyle healthcare; my previous cat was partially raw fed and the current little carnivore is grain-free. Cool

I am not aware of compelling evidence that humans need meat, but I do believe we evolved to rely on animal products, so must seek suitable substitutes should we choose to avoid whole food groups. I don't believe any processed supplement - powder or capsule - can take the place of real foods and it concerns me when people rely heavily on them. Eliminating whole food groups can particularly be a problem when the person or a member of their household dislikes or tends not to eat another food group, or they do not have easy access to a wide choice of wholefoods (= food desert). This goes for omnivores just as much as, say, vegans or paleos because MANY omnivores are actually consuming a very narrow range of foods.

All animal protein can be inflammatory/ acidifying IF excessive portion sizes are used. Actually many governments recommend a palm size portion of meat (~100g) and a matchbox size portion of hard cheese (~30g). Very few Westerners adhere to this! Animal protein can and should be balanced with anti-inflammatory, alkalinising foods such as fruit, veg and sources of essential fatty acids. All cells in the body need complete protein (animal OR a combination of plant sources), and we cannot store spare so this should be taken in the diet little and often. IME omnivores, vegetarians and vegans alike - women particularly - do not take in sufficient protein during the morning, sometimes not until the evening meal.

Obviously I tailor my recommendations to individual health concerns, goals, needs and tastes but - given totally free reign with a basically healthy client - I would have them eat a low glycaemic index wholefood diet. An emphasis on pulses rather than grains, complete protein primarily from oily fish, live yoghurt and perhaps omega-enriched eggs. Obviously tons of brightly coloured fruit and veg, raw or cooked taking into consideration ORAC.

There is a ton of published research into this area, you might find it interesting to trawl PubMed, Google Scholar and/ or purchase a good degree level nutrition textbook. Many alternative diet or commercial diet books cherry pick from the research instead of considering the complete picture. Paleo sounds interesting in theory, but the two lifestyles are chalk and cheese. For example few men get anything like the level of exercise our ancestors did, nor are young women permanently breast feeding or pregnant. Hunter-gatherers might not have eaten dairy but they likely ate fish bones, the mineral-rich liquor from boiling up larger ones and so on.

What essential nutrients do you think meat supplies that other foods do not, Jenp7? Do you believe skin needs different nutrients to our other organs?

free skin care · Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:59 pm

Just to add, you can't say a raw, vegetarian, or Paleo diet is necessarily better than the other. There is just overwhelming diversity within each dietary affiliation. For example, I could think of a way to construct a diet that would make Paleo look way healthier than a vegetarian diet, with a vegan diet (whether raw or not) coming in last. Or, I could easily come up with menus for each category that would make a Paleo diet look terrible, but a vegan diet good. So again, I would say that there is just so much diversity that there are no absolutes. For me, thinking in terms of what foods are healthy (particularly fruits, vegetables and other whole foods) has been the most helpful. HTH Smile

free skin care · Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:26 pm

Fantastic info from you both-- thank you Smile

I think what makes me question the need for meat is that we cannot get B12 (easily- I think there are vegan sources, like yeast) nor a complete protein from anything but meat. Additionally, I believe I read that heme iron is only available from meat. So, if we need to pair foods for protein or we need to supplement a diet, it seems that approach to eating is more "troublesome" and thus less intuitively natural than if we just ate meat and didn't have to worry about protein, iron and B12 levels.

I know this is a simplistic look, but just playing devil's advocate Smile

free skin care · Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:59 pm

jenp7 wrote:

However, I also personally know quite a few strict vegans with skin that looks a bit stressed-- dehydrated, lined-- and they are in their 20s, 30s and early 40s.

I have noticed this, too. I would think that people who choose to eat this way would have the best looking skin, but I don't find this to be the case. Could this be due to what CM talked about with the B-12 and D deficiency and Omega 3/6 issue?

free skin care · Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:20 pm

jenp7 wrote:

Fantastic info from you both-- thank you Smile

I think what makes me question the need for meat is that we cannot get B12 (easily- I think there are vegan sources, like yeast) nor a complete protein from anything but meat. Additionally, I believe I read that heme iron is only available from meat. So, if we need to pair foods for protein or we need to supplement a diet, it seems that approach to eating is more "troublesome" and thus less intuitively natural than if we just ate meat and didn't have to worry about protein, iron and B12 levels.

I know this is a simplistic look, but just playing devil's advocate Smile

Devil's advocate is good, I enjoy these discussions and found Cm5597's point of view interesting and thought provoking. Very Happy

Being an optimally healthy vegan does take more work and planning for the reasons you give, but for vegetarians eggs and dairy products are good sources of both complete protein and of B12. It's not meat we are evolved to rely on but nutrients from animal products. Iron is one of the most abundant minerals, it may not be the most easily absorbed haem iron, but there is enough iron in plants for us not to be too bothered about anaemia. Bear in mind breakfast cereals and breads are fortified in many Western countries. Our forebears would have got haem iron, B12 and protein from offal, which I can sneak in to the debate because it's not classified as a meat in many countries! Wink

The pairing for protein is not as troublesome as you might think because we should all be eating nuts, seeds, beans, lentils and wholegrains each day for fibre, minerals, complex carbs and healthy fats. It's unlikely you'd eat only one of these at every meal or snack if you were avoiding meat, because a mixture of these alongside fruit and veg would make for interesting flavour and texture combinations. If you are vegetarian rather than vegan, then you can get sufficient protein by combining a small amount of eggs or cheese with just one of these plant protein sources. Protein can become a problem when someone is relying on processed foods to substitute for meat: many frozen 'bean' burgers, 'nut' cutlets or 'cheesy' veggie sausages are actually flavoured breadcrumbs/ potato, ie. a carbohydrate. But processed foods are not the route to a healthy body for an omnivore either!

IMO the most troublesome part of switching to an optimally nutritious diet for an omnivore is getting the nine portions a day of different fruits and vegetables - if you don't start at breakfast and/ or carry snacks to work you can be in real trouble by the evening meal! And one of the key issues for vegetarians and vegans is long chain omega-3s. Many do not appreciate that the short chain form found in seed oils is converted at a rate as low as ~10%, plus of course the oils must be raw and small seeds must be ground, which limits your cooking options. I would have any vegan client on a marine algae supplement just as I have most omnivorous clients on a fish body oil supplement.

I am noticing as I think and type that I am classifying diets by convention or ethics yet discussing including or excluding food groups on the basis of nutrition. Pescatarians are fairly common but a 'vegan' who also consumes offal is not!! But if your concerns were the ability to conjure up tasty and nutritious meals without resorting to daily supplements, it might be a viable option. Does that make any sense? Embarassed

free skin care · Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:15 pm

I'm going to try to post some more stuff tomorrow...but I may not be able to (flying out)...if not, I'll post some more stuff in a few days Smile

free skin care · Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:25 am

My absolutely uneducated and unqualified opinion is this: Humans have eaten meat ever since they first discovered how to sharpen a piece of stone to use as a weapon. I think we should eat "tribally" - that is, eat fresh, unprocessed food from all available food-groups - in moderation. Moderation being the absolute key word.

I live in a very hot climate, so tend to eat lots of salads. However, there is no way I could survive on a raw diet. To not have the joy of cooking would be awful. Humans have also cooked since the discovery of fire - so I happen to think that eating raw is just something of a fad - but that's just me.

free skin care · Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:57 am

I agree with a lot of what Keliu posted... Eating raw may or may not be a fad, but it's definitely not for me. I posted about this on another thread but it's probably more appropriate here...

After trying many of the food diets/ protocols out there, I've found following Dr. Fuhrman's Eat to Live protocol the best for my body. It's mainly vegan but I make little modifications for what my body tells me...

He believe in raw AND cooked veg, indicating there is a definite place for both. He is also a big bean fan, and honestly, since eating at least a cup of beans a day, I have seen huge improvements in hunger pangs and also a dramatic reduction in food cravings. I feel nicely satisfied all day long.

However, I would say it has taken at least a month before the gas from all that bean intake has subsided. I was uncomfortable for a long time, lol.

I really enjoy eating salads and soups as my mainstay and feel my energy is up and my weight down. Breakfast is the only place I don't eat whole food because drinking a meal replacement shake is easier and offers the hunger blockers I need to see my through the rest of the day. I know that probably flies in the face of hardcore foodies, but I love the results and it makes life easier... Breakfast out of the way, I can focus on better, more nutritious food with joy and not drudgery the rest of the day. I feel I've found found my equilibrium after years of frustration about the process for the simple human need for food.

free skin care · Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:34 pm

We had a meat provider at our farmer's market who had a saying that I think is majorly important.

NO COOTIES!

My personal opinion. Stay away from things that are not food regardless of what you eat the most off.

If you're a vegan, stay away from veggies sprayed with poison.

A fantastic photographer friend of mine posted a picture on her FB page about a year ago. She was out for a walk, and came across a HUGE strawberry field. YUM STRAWBERRIES... Except right in the middle of the field were several signs of a person walking with the crossed over circle. (so no walking). And then a cross and bones sign. NO KIDDING!

'Cause of the poison spray on the berries. But hey, they'll be fine later to give your children in their lunch later. Rinse them off a little. Their thin skins maybe won't have absorbed the cancer causing poisone. I'M SURE!!!!Right????

SCARY!

If you're a meat eater stay away from animals that have eaten poison as a food source.

My personal goal is to stay away from foods that don't actually offer you any sort of nutrition. Or might be saturated with poison. And I'm typing this as I'm sipping a mocha... Shock

So, I certainly have a ways to go!

free skin care · Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:01 pm

I think Michael Pollan said it well in his book "Food Rules"." Eat food, mostly plants, not too much. I saw an interview with him and he eats meat twice per week. I like the part of his book where he says "Eat all the junk food you want as long as you cook it yourself." The point being that you are likely to eat far fewer cookies if you have to make them yourself before eating them. I'm with Keliu, everything in moderation. But I think the highest percentage of intake should come from fruits and vegetables.

free skin care · Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:18 pm

I don't know about you guys.... I am a meat eater, however, I tend to limit the meat consumption to 1x a week and in moderation. I mostly eat a lot of fish, and lots of green salads with some flax to top the crunch of salads. I also make my own carrot juice at home or apple juice at home or whatever fresh fruits I can find. I eat at least 1 wholegrain wheat-based bread in the morning with 1 riped banana and a strong coffee. I've noticed that I don't feel hungry during the morning. I also take a lot of plain water, avoiding anything with sugar content in it.... I find after the change of eating habits, my skin is thanking me. My overall health has improved, and I am not even dieting! If you follow the simple rule of eating in moderation in whatever you feel like eating, you will feel better about yourself....

jenp7 wrote:

I am currently in a raw chef certification program. Over the last 5 months, I have learned some very interesting things about enzymes, vitamins, minerals, etc and overall health. Of course my teachers are proponents of a completely raw diet-- no meat allowed. I have read Tonya's raw food website and find her a compelling case study for the benefits of raw food (as well as Mimi Kirk's). However, I also personally know quite a few strict vegans with skin that looks a bit stressed-- dehydrated, lined-- and they are in their 20s, 30s and early 40s.

I can't help but wonder if we don't actually need meat for healthy skin. I am convinced that vegetables and fruits should make up a large part of our diets, and I do agree that most grains and oils are rancid if pressed or made into flour, so we should generally steer clear of these. I also believe dairy is inflammatory and acid-producing and should be generally avoided or used in moderation. But I am on the fence about meat. I am leaning toward believing that organic, free range meat is a necessary component of a healthy human diet-- I am wondering what other EDS forum members think. (I am hoping for more of a discussion on nutritional pros and cons and less about personal belief ssystems on whether or not eating meat is morally right) Smile

free skin care · Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:27 pm

I drink a full glass of raw vegetable juice every morning, not very tasty but helpful

BTW, usually I mix beets, celery, green peppers, carrots and radish together

free skin care · Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:35 pm

I'd like to hear the experts views on juicing. A nutritionist was on TV the other morning talking about juicing and saying how it was an "unnatural" way to consume fruits and vegetables. By "unnatural" she meant that when we eat fruit, we might eat one or two pieces in one go. However, when we juice, we might use up to ten or more pieces - this provides way to much fructose. She said it was much better to just eat the whole fruit.

I think it's an interesting point and makes sense to me - it fits into my "everything in moderation" theory.

When we were all young mothers, one of my friend's sons was admitted to hospital with suspected jaundice. Turned out she'd given him too much carrot juice and his skin had turned yellow. Sounds funny, but actually, too much Vitamin A can be detrimental.

free skin care · Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:10 pm

Keliu wrote:

I'd like to hear the experts views on juicing. A nutritionist was on TV the other morning talking about juicing and saying how it was an "unnatural" way to consume fruits and vegetables. By "unnatural" she meant that when we eat fruit, we might eat one or two pieces in one go. However, when we juice, we might use up to ten or more pieces - this provides way to much fructose. She said it was much better to just eat the whole fruit.

I think it's an interesting point and makes sense to me - it fits into my "everything in moderation" theory.

When we were all young mothers, one of my friend's sons was admitted to hospital with suspected jaundice. Turned out she'd given him too much carrot juice and his skin had turned yellow. Sounds funny, but actually, too much Vitamin A can be detrimental.

A nutrition expert I once spoke to said that you need to chew your food, she was against juicing or green smoothies.

free skin care · Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:26 pm

jom wrote:

A nutrition expert I once spoke to said that you need to chew your food, she was against juicing or green smoothies.

I'm glad you brought up that point - the TV nutritionist did too! I believe it's important to eat solid food (not just for the health of our teeth) but so that our intestines (or whatever) go to work breaking everything down. It's all part of our digestive process.

free skin care · Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:51 am

Keliu wrote:

My absolutely uneducated and unqualified opinion is this: Humans have eaten meat ever since they first discovered how to sharpen a piece of stone to use as a weapon. I think we should eat "tribally" - that is, eat fresh, unprocessed food from all available food-groups - in moderation. Moderation being the absolute key word.

I live in a very hot climate, so tend to eat lots of salads. However, there is no way I could survive on a raw diet. To not have the joy of cooking would be awful. Humans have also cooked since the discovery of fire - so I happen to think that eating raw is just something of a fad - but that's just me.

I'm with you on this 200% Wink

As I also live in Australia I tend to eat a lot of salad but most days I like to have some lightly steamed veg too, like: asparagus, snow peas, sugar snap peas, broccoli, cauli, baby corn, etc. If I eat too much raw I actually get gas and bloating. I do not eat processed foods or any junk food; I eat small amounts of organic meat/chicken/eggs and wild caught fish - I make my own organic yoghurt - and in winter I love homemade soups. And I have the occasional slice of low GI high fibre gluten free bread, toasted - as a treat! lol Laughing

I tend to think I eat "tribally" too - I wouldnt call it Paleo, but I tend to apply the "if a caveman could have eaten it, then it should be ok" mentality. Wink

free skin care · Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:53 am

Keliu wrote:

jom wrote:

A nutrition expert I once spoke to said that you need to chew your food, she was against juicing or green smoothies.

I'm glad you brought up that point - the TV nutritionist did too! I believe it's important to eat solid food (not just for the health of our teeth) but so that our intestines (or whatever) go to work breaking everything down. It's all part of our digestive process.

I'm totally with you on this too Wink

My mum brought me up to not drink juice - she told me to eat the whole fruit/veg as it's more nutritious -- and she was right Very Happy

free skin care · Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:01 am

I'm getting a little confused as to whom we are talking about? I think we are jumbling mainstream experts with authorities on alternative therapies, medics and dieticians with nutritionists? In the UK - and I *think* the US too - anyone can style themselves as a nutritionist, they don't have to have a degree or any substantial training in nutrition/ healthcare, although of course some have. A dietician has a specific degree in dietetics, plus pre-reg training and registration. Many of our (UK) TV 'experts' on weight loss shows are just personal trainers, and the level 3 nutrition module is an absolute joke. Again some have taken higher qualifications but others have learned 'nutrition' from fitness magazines and commercial diet books.

free skin care · Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:06 pm

Firefox7275 wrote:

I'm getting a little confused as to whom we are talking about? I think we are jumbling mainstream experts with authorities on alternative therapies, medics and dieticians with nutritionists? In the UK - and I *think* the US too - anyone can style themselves as a nutritionist, they don't have to have a degree or any substantial training in nutrition/ healthcare, although of course some have. A dietician has a specific degree in dietetics, plus pre-reg training and registration. Many of our (UK) TV 'experts' on weight loss shows are just personal trainers, and the level 3 nutrition module is an absolute joke. Again some have taken higher qualifications but others have learned 'nutrition' from fitness magazines and commercial diet books.

In Australia, a Nutritionist is a recognised medical qualification. You cannot call yourself a Nutritionist if you are not one. In the same way that you cannot say you are a Physiotherapist if you are not one. If you want to know whom I'm referring to in my reference to the TV nutritionist, her name is Joanna McMillan and she has a PhD in Nutritional Science http://today.ninemsn.com.au/meettheteam/172391/joanna-mcmillan-price
http://www.drjoanna.com.au/

I'm not sure why you've raised this point - if you disagree with some of the comments here, why not just say so. No-one here mentioned alternative therapies or dietitians.

free skin care · Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:29 pm

Keliu wrote:

In Australia, a Nutritionist is a recognised medical qualification. You cannot call yourself a Nutritionist if you are not one. In the same way that you cannot say you are a Physiotherapist if you are not one. If you want to know whom I'm referring to in my reference to the TV nutritionist, her name is Joanna McMillan and she has a PhD in Nutritional Science http://today.ninemsn.com.au/meettheteam/172391/joanna-mcmillan-price
http://www.drjoanna.com.au/

I'm not sure why you've raised this point - if you disagree with some of the comments here, why not just say so. No-one here mentioned alternative therapies or dietitians.

Thank you. Did not remember you were from Oz and did not know Oz had different nomenclature, likely others did not either. I posted my query for exactly the reasons already stated ie. "I'm getting a little confused as to whom we are talking about?" You asked for "experts views" and went on to refer to a nutritionist and Dom referred to a nutrition expert so I sought clarification before others responded likewise.

free skin care · Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:04 pm

I think what kind of diet someone follows isn't as important as what kind of food they eat within that diet. This is why you see lots of poorly-aging vegans and overweight vegetarians because they don't replace meat with pulses or other high-protein, high-quality food but rather with simple carbohydrates like pasta, potato chips, crackers, etc.

And I was under the impression that there's a lot of nutrients we get from meat that are not as readily available in other food groups. For example, omega-3s found in fish oil are thought to be better than those found in flaxseed oil since fish oil has more EFA and DHA. Then you've got nutrients like B12 or astaxanthin, found mostly in meat.

free skin care · Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:35 pm

I used to think I needed meat b/c of the protein, etc., but more and more I am listening to my body and it craves a more vegetarian diet. I like to think of myself as a kind of omnivarian, with a veggie emphasis.

The key is really knowing yourself, isn't it? I love my salads and beans and soups but even a year ago I would have said no way...

Now I feel light and strong... and I really like it. Smile

free skin care · Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:39 pm

Luminosity, where do you get your protein, from beans and nuts? I see you do kettlebell workouts. Are those for building/maintaining muscle or just for cardio?

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