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Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:13 am  |
I wonder if anyone has tried using soy isoflavones in a potion or serum? And if so, do they give good results?
Some time ago, before I gave up and decided to DIY, I tried RoC cream with isoflavones, but did not notice it doing anything. Probably it didn't contain enough to show any effect (soy didn't do much for me or people I know either in the way of acting against hot flashes etc.). Dr J. though puts isoflavones high on his favourite actives list, so maybe I should give it a try, in a high dose in a DIY potion. Anyone tried this? How much of the stuff did you put in to make something effective, and how long did it take to see a difference?
Thanks in advance! |
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Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:29 pm |
I've been thinking about this as well and am interested in the results from others too. Supposedly soy has estrogen-like activity to help reduce wrinkles.
I was looking at some of the GoW ready-made products that have soy in it or getting the active. I see the Skinactives has it:
http://www.skinactives.com/Soy-Isoflavones.html |
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Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:10 am |
| Thank you ShastaGirl for your response. If SkinActives carries it, there must be something in it. But I am surprised about the lack of recipes and raves on this forum if it's such a good ingredient. |
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Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:58 pm |
| Hi Lotusesther, can you please post the link for the Dr.J website. Thank you. |
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Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:11 pm |
 I am just trying to find out if it's worth the trouble and expense to use in DIY. |
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Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:36 pm |
lol....actually...yes it is Yak meat tenderizer as well. Multi purpose.
Recent advances in characterizing biological mechanisms underlying UV-induced wrinkles: a pivotal role of fibrobrast-derived elastase.
Imokawa G.
Source
Katayanagi Institute-W204, School of Bionics, Tokyo University of Technology, 1404-1 Katakura Hachioji, Tokyo 192-0982, Japan. imokawa@bs.teu.ac.jp
Abstract
In clinical studies, the formation of facial wrinkles has been closely linked to the loss of elastic properties of the skin. Cumulative irradiation with ultraviolet (UV) B at suberythemal doses significantly reduces the elastic properties of the skin, resulting in the formation of wrinkles. In in vitro studies, we identified a paracrine pathway between keratinocytes and fibroblasts, which leads to wrinkle formation via the up-regulation of fibroblast elastases that degrade elastic fibers. UVB irradiation stimulates the activity of fibroblast elastases in animal skin. Scanning electron microscopy revealed that cumulative UVB irradiation elicits a marked alteration in the three-dimensional structure of elastic fibers, which is closely associated with the subsequent reduction in the elastic properties of the skin, resulting in wrinkle formation. Studies using anti-wrinkle treatments suggest a close relationship between the recovery of wrinkles and an improvement in the linearity of elastic fibers. Those studies also suggest a close correlation between the recovery in the linearity of elastic fibers and the improvement in skin elasticity. In a study using ovariectomized animals, we characterized the important role of elastase in their high vulnerability to UV-induced wrinkle formation. A synthetic inhibitor specific for fibroblast elastases significantly prevents wrinkle formation without reducing the elastic properties of the skin, accompanied by minor damage in elastic fibers. Finally, we identified an effective extract of Zingiber officinale (L.) Rose from a screen of many herb extracts, which has a safe and potent inhibitory activity against fibroblast elastases. Animal studies using the L. Rose extract revealed that it has significant preventive effects against UVB-induced wrinkle formation, which occur in concert with beneficial effects on skin elasticity. A 1-year clinical study on human facial skin to determine the efficacy of the L. Rose extract demonstrated that it inhibits the UV-induced decrease in skin elasticity and prevents or improves wrinkle formation in skin around the corner of the eye without changing the water content of the stratum corneum. Our long-term studies support our hypothesis for a mechanism of wrinkle formation in which cytokine expression is activated by UV irradiation and triggers dermal fibroblasts to increase the expression of elastase. That increase in elastase results in the deterioration of the three-dimensional architecture of elastic fibers, reducing skin elasticity and finally leading to the formation of wrinkles.
Smells not bad either^^^. Works well with Neroli, Ylang ylang and Frankincense.
Lotusesther: Soy Isoflavones -Genistein
http://www.ajcn.org/content/87/5/1314.full.pdf
http://www.ornatural.com/eng/pdf/detox-slim/Genistein%20-%20SOFW%20Journal.pdf |
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Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:46 pm |
Thank you, DarkMoon.  |
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Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:49 am |
| packratmack wrote: |
| Thank you, DarkMoon. |
You are very welcome packratmack!  |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:33 am |
You can look at the form used in the studies...I think it's called aglycone.
Or..what about the phytoestrogen creams such as those put out by Emerita?
Instead of applying it to your arm, put it on your face?
BFg |
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Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:39 am |
| Lotusesther wrote: |
| I am just trying to find out if it's worth the trouble and expense to use in DIY. |
Depends on the standardization of the active and how you get it into solution.
The current mixes available are of unknown or extremely low standardization, and standardized to what ? = unknown. Soy isoflavone active components are not soluble in water and only marginally soluble in ETOH. Rather poorly at that.
The research that the sales of soy isoflavones is primarily based on, is of one component which has been studied extensively and performs rather well.
It's not a wonder that there are not more positive reviews. Soy isoflavones are smelly, and mixed in water/ cream = useless.
Problem: It's a 2 step process. Not mission impossible.  |
_________________
If you make, first do no harm, your Law, you will never strike the first blow and will be known as a man of peace who can fight like ten tigers, a Human in the act of Being. There is no greater rank than this. Ashida Kim on War.~Cellese~AnteAge Serum and Accelerator, DermaRoller ,MyFawnie AA2G serum, KNN G ForceUltrasound., SEA, ChrySun 25% ZnO |
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Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:31 am |
Thank you for all the info. I guess this sort of means that whenever it says 'soy isoflavones' on a cream claiming to help menopause skin problems it's a bet whether or not a. it's the right kind of isoflavones, that is the right chemical form that can and will be absorbed by the skin and do something nice there and b. it's the right concentration - I understand the research found that it does do something but at very high concentrations. Read some study that used a 40 percent solution, don't think RoC - we keep our promises - contains all that much.
What does this mean for DIY? How difficult is it to get it into a usable form, at a sufficient concentration? I have a kitchen, not a lab. Another blond question: if it takes 2 steps to turn soy isoflavones into something that works, why not sell processed isoflavones that are already usable? Or only need step 2? |
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Sat Mar 17, 2012 10:40 am |
| Lotusesther wrote: |
| very high concentrations. |
Not quite...the extract needs to be highly concentrated.
| Lotusesther wrote: |
| What does this mean for DIY? How difficult is it to get it into a usable form, at a sufficient concentration? I have a kitchen, not a lab. Another blond question: if it takes 2 steps to turn soy isoflavones into something that works, why not sell processed isoflavones that are already usable? Or only need step 2? |
You ask good questions you know that?
1. Means, it is doable.
2. Define difficult? It's not. Purified extract, = you don't need much. Less than 1% raw material.
3. Perfect. Just need some basic equipment.
4. Cancer drug pharmacology. Taking advantage of the simple two step process omitting re-crystallization. |
_________________
If you make, first do no harm, your Law, you will never strike the first blow and will be known as a man of peace who can fight like ten tigers, a Human in the act of Being. There is no greater rank than this. Ashida Kim on War.~Cellese~AnteAge Serum and Accelerator, DermaRoller ,MyFawnie AA2G serum, KNN G ForceUltrasound., SEA, ChrySun 25% ZnO |
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Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:40 pm |
I use soy isoflavone in various serums and find it effective at moisturizing and "plumping" the skin. Too soon to tell any long term benefits since Ive only been using it for a month, but I like it. Gives a luminous look to the skin and no other moisturizer is needed on top of it really. Helps with some creeping crepiness on the inner side of elbows too. You know the stuff I mean.
It contains genistein which is a powerful collagen booster: it strongly stimulates the production of collagen but also prevents its degradation by matrix metalloproteinases. |
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Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:05 am |
| Thank you Fawnie! You use it in DIY? How do you use it, just mix in powdered extract or do you do something to it to make it active and effective? |
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Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:31 am |
Lotusesther,
My mother went into early meno, finished at 38. Hyper/hypothyroidism in the mix. Has done a terrible number on her skin.
B3 5%
NAG 2%
Genistein 1%Genistein protects against UVB-induced senescence-like characteristics in human
dermal fibroblast by p66Shc down-regulation
Proline 1%
Carnosine 1%
AA2G 2%
AHYP 2%
Vit E 1%
Retinol 1 %
CoQ 10 2%
Lecithin 5%
Ewax-NF 7 %
Poly 80 2%
Oils 13 %
Coca butter 7 %
Shea 7 %
Glycerin 3 %
1 N NaOH 2%
H2O 36 %
Phenoxy 0.5 %
pH 5.5
That is an exceptionally hydrating formula without being sticky or greasy. Peach colored luxury, that when rubbed turns white and is rapidly absorbed into the skin. Leaves my skin butter soft.
Light reading:
FACT SHEET on the PHYTOESTROGEN GENISTEIN
Potentially quite useful due to the estrogen mimic effect , although weak, has been shown in vitro and in vivo to be promising.
It is Not the Fountain of Youth in a Cheap Plastic Bottle [nothing is]...but is quite helpful.
And...tossing it into water/lotion/ cream will be of absolutely Zero use to you. Genistein is the only " tricky" one. CoQ10 goes into your oil. Oil soluble. The rest are water soluble. Easy to make. |
_________________
If you make, first do no harm, your Law, you will never strike the first blow and will be known as a man of peace who can fight like ten tigers, a Human in the act of Being. There is no greater rank than this. Ashida Kim on War.~Cellese~AnteAge Serum and Accelerator, DermaRoller ,MyFawnie AA2G serum, KNN G ForceUltrasound., SEA, ChrySun 25% ZnO |
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Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:58 am |
Thank you DragoN!
The recipe, or rather ingredient list you posted sounds very interesting. How do you dissolve the soy extract? On the bulkactives-link you posted I see that they state solubility in water and ethanol. That would suggest adding it to the water phase of any DIY lotion should do the trick? Or use a drop or two of ethanol? You use NAOH, I must say I feel somewhat reluctant about that.
And what are these
| DragoN wrote: |
AA2G 2%
AHYP 2% |
? OK I'll google....  |
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Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:06 am |
AA2G.....
AA2G™ (Ascorbic Acid 2-Glucoside) from Hayashibara is natural vitamin C (ascorbic acid) stabilised with glucose. This combination allows the benefits of vitamin C to be conveniently and effectively used in cosmetic products. When creams and lotions containing AA2G™ are applied to the skin, an enzyme present in the skin, a-glucosidase, acts on the AA2G™ to slowly release the healthful benefits of vitamin C.
AA2G™ was originally developed as a quasi-drug cosmetic product in Japan to lighten the overall tone of the skin and reduce the pigmentation in age spots and freckles. Further research has shown other dramatic benefits and today AA2G™ is used all over the world – not only for whitening but also for brightening dull looking skin, reversing the effects of aging, and in sunscreen products for protection.
High stability
AA2G™ has glucose bound to the hydroxyl group of the second carbon (C2) of the ascorbic acid. The C2 hydroxyl group is the primary site of natural vitamin C’s beneficial activity; however, this is the site where vitamin C is degraded. The glucose protects vitamin C from high temperatures, pH, metal ions and other mechanisms of degradation.
Sustainable vitamin C activity
When products containing AA2G™ are used on the skin, the action of a-glucosidase gradually releases vitamin C, providing the benefits of vitamin C effectively over a prolonged period of time.
Formulation beneits
AA2G™ is more soluble than natural vitamin C. It is stable over a wide range of pH condition, especially at pH 5.0 – 7.0 which is typically used for formulation of skin care products. AA2G™ has been shown to be easier to formulate than other vitamin C preparations.
http://www.hayashibara-intl.com/cosmetics/aa2g.html |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:09 am |
Presperse, Kyowa ~ AHYP™ Natural Skin Barrier, Panadoxine™ P
NEW YORK—Presperse LLC established a partnership with Kyowa Hakko USA to bring novel Kyowa Hakko ingredients and technologies to the personal care and cosmetic industries. The first ingredients are AHYP™ Natural Skin Barrier and Panadoxine™ P, a pro form of pyridoxine (vitamin B6).
AHYP Natural Skin Barrier is produced through the fermentation of natural sugars, and employs patented amino acid technology from Kyowa Hakko. Clinical tests have shown superior penetration of the skin, elevation of collagen synthesis, improved skin elasticity and overall strengthening of the skin’s barrier properties to combat allergens and pollution. The ingredient has also shown the capability to accelerate wound healing and increase moisturization.
Panadoxine P is released as vitamin B6 internally by interacting with the body’s enzymes and is a useful source of vitamin B6 for skin, hair and body that provides long-term health benefits. Due to its stability, Panadoxine P is able to penetrate through the first skin layer and treat skin roughness, acne, sunburn and inflammation. Vitamin B6 (Pyridoxine) is well recognized for its proven efficacy for the regulation of sebum production and in reduction of skin inflammation, particularly in men.
http://www.insidecosmeceuticals.com/news/2010/02/presperse-kyowa-ahyp-natural-skin-barrier-panadoxine-p.aspx |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:30 am |
Thank you DM.RE: AA2G, It's quite versatile. However the pH in solution is around 2.1.
| Lotusesther wrote: |
| That would suggest adding it to the water phase of any DIY lotion should do the trick? |
Would be nice were that the case. Unfortunately the amount present is quite low. And essentially unknown as it is a composite that is given as the %.
90mg/kg in vivo for effect using Genistein. Penetration is about half that even when combined with penetration enhancers. However over 100mg/Kg ...you have cell death.
It's a balancing act.
AHYP 2% N-acetyl L hydroxyproline has greater penetration and is generally less irritating than L Hydroxyproline when applied topically. Funny and cruel aspect for women is that our males at the age of 50 retain higher estrogen levels than we do which apparently plays an important role in skin condition. L-hydroxproline levels are significantly reduced in older women compared to their youth, as a result of the lower estrogen level and the enzyme mediated activities of the hormone.
Based on some interesting research from a while back, steric hindrance may play a role as well in reduction of collagenase activity, however that remains unconfirmed. AHYP regardless of that, still remains beneficial from the hydration aspect.i.e. rather than applying hyaluronic acid to the skin to increase hydration levels, the skin can be induced to create own. Combined with B3, more so.
| Lotusesther wrote: |
| You use NAOH, I must say I feel somewhat reluctant about that. |
"The big scare"...nothing to fear with that. Just don't drink it. Pour it in your eyes or anything stupid of that nature.
1 N NaOH = 0.39 grams NaOH dissolved in 10 grams distilled water.
1 M Citric Acid = 1.92 grams C3H4OH(COOH)3 dissolved in 10 grams distilled water
Citric acid + Sodium Hydroxide----> Sodium citrate salt + water
1N NaOH then a little EtOH on the mix...and increase the bio availability 10X.
I am guilty of loading my bases Lotusesther. I don't use Soy isoflavones, I use Genistein, because either way, you will require the same solvent to hope to gain anything out of it. The bonus, Genistein doesn't stink like the soy isoflavones tend to. |
_________________
If you make, first do no harm, your Law, you will never strike the first blow and will be known as a man of peace who can fight like ten tigers, a Human in the act of Being. There is no greater rank than this. Ashida Kim on War.~Cellese~AnteAge Serum and Accelerator, DermaRoller ,MyFawnie AA2G serum, KNN G ForceUltrasound., SEA, ChrySun 25% ZnO |
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Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:50 am |
| Barefootgirl wrote: |
You can look at the form used in the studies...I think it's called aglycone.
Or..what about the phytoestrogen creams such as those put out by Emerita?
Instead of applying it to your arm, put it on your face?
BFg |
Topically applied estrogen (E2 or E3) is marvelous for the skin. We have estrogen (and progesterone) receptors in our faces. I have a compounded Estriol(E3) cream made for me (prescription) that I apply to my face/throat/neck. There was a great article that I recently read...I'll see if I can find it and post. Before I had my compounded cream, I ordered Ovestin (E3)from In House Pharmacy in the UK. I'd mix a lima-bean size in my facial moisturizer. No prescription needed when ordering Ovestin. I add a dab of my natural progesterone cream as well.
Edited to add link: http://andlos.com/youthful-skin-with-bioidentical-hormone-therapy
The article talks about menopausal women....I'm peri-menopause and using estriol cream on my face/throat/neck as a pre-emptive strike. |
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Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:03 am |
| DragoN wrote: |
| Thank you DM.RE: AA2G, It's quite versatile. However the pH in solution is around 2.1. |
Just curious as to the pH discrepancy as what I posted came from what appears to be the "creator" of AA2G?
Hayashibara is a leading technology innovator. Our commitment to research resulted in us becoming the first starch processor in the world to manufacture glucose enzymatically, a process that was to become the industry standard. Our continued commitment to research has led to the introduction of innovative products and processes for the food cosmetics and pharmaceutical industries. Detailed below are some of our achievements:
1959 world's first industrial process to manufacture glucose enzymatically from starch
1967 technology to produce isoamylase, a high performance debranching enzyme
1968 high purity crystalline maltose
1973 "Pullulan" a natural film forming polysaccharides
1978 GS Syrup (Glycosyl sucrose)
1981 crystalline maltitol
1987 G4 Syrup (maltotetraose based syrup)
1989 a-glucosyl hesperidin, water-soluble bioflavonoid for the cosmetic industry
1989 a-glucosyl rutin, transglucosylated bioflavonoid
1990 Ascorbyl Glucoside, a stabilised vitamin C for the cosmetics industry
1990 lactosucrose, a prebiotic sugar for the food industry
1991 technology to produce highly watersoluble natural propolis
1994 trehalose, low sweetness non reducing sugar
2003 developed MG-60, multi functional carbohydrate syrup for the cosmetics industry
http://www.hayashibara-intl.com/who.html |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:35 am |
| JenJ, I am looking into that as well. It certainly seems a lot easier and with better evidence behind it than soy. But it's not something to experiment freely with, takes some research to find out how much, or rather how little it would take to get results. The article you provided states amounts of estrogen in that cream that are incredibly high (estrogel, a HRT product, has 0.06 estradiol). If I would use estradiol for my skin I would not choose such a very strong product. The study by dr Schmidt I found cited on other sites - 0.01 estradiol. Sounds a lot safer, in that study no systemic effects were observed even though from what I found it's practically impossible to measure that really. |
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Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:52 am |
| Lotusesther wrote: |
| JenJ, I am looking into that as well. It certainly seems a lot easier and with better evidence behind it than soy. But it's not something to experiment freely with, takes some research to find out how much, or rather how little it would take to get results. The article you provided states amounts of estrogen in that cream that are incredibly high (estrogel, a HRT product, has 0.06 estradiol). If I would use estradiol for my skin I would not choose such a very strong product. The study by dr Schmidt I found cited on other sites - 0.01 estradiol. Sounds a lot safer, in that study no systemic effects were observed even though from what I found it's practically impossible to measure that really. |
Barefootgirl started a thread called estirol cream for face, but all forms of hormone replacement creams were discussed it may be of interest.
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=40185&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=estrogen+cream+face&start=0 |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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