 |
 |
| Author |
Message |
|
|
|
Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:51 am  |
| JenJ wrote: |
| I'm peri-menopause and using estriol cream on my face/throat/neck as a pre-emptive strike. |
Load your bases. Depending on age, hormone levels and any other conditions. etc.etc. I'm Peri as well...so, Pre-emptive.
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| Just curious as to the pH discrepancy as what I posted came from what appears to be the "creator" of AA2G? |
Read it again:
AA2G™ is more soluble than natural vitamin C. It is stable over a wide range of pH condition, especially at pH 5.0 – 7.0 which is typically used for formulation of skin care products. AA2G™ has been shown to be easier to formulate than other vitamin C preparations.
Where in there does it tell you the pH in H20 @ 2%?
It doesn't.
pH : 2.3~2.4(1%w/w)，1.8(10%w/w)
I get 2.1 @ 2% , @ 21C.
AA2G 2% serum:
AA2G 2%
ALA 1%
Borage oil 15%
Proline 1%
Carnosine 1%
Scooter gum 2%
Vit E 1%
Glycerin 2%
H20 71.5 %
Ferulic acid 0.5%
1N NaOH 2%
Phenoxy 0.5%
Adjustment 1%
#1. AA2G into solution
#2. Ferulic acid into solution using 1N NaOH add to AA2G adjust pH to @ 5.5
#3. Proline, Carnosine, Vit E acetate. Blend.
#4. Sclerotium gum, blend. Will thicken.
#5. While blending slowly add ALA to oil at room temp.
#6. Combine oil and water phase + phenoxy.
#7. Leave over night, next day will be a thick gel and spreads like silk. |
_________________
If you make, first do no harm, your Law, you will never strike the first blow and will be known as a man of peace who can fight like ten tigers, a Human in the act of Being. There is no greater rank than this. Ashida Kim on War.~Cellese~AnteAge Serum and Accelerator, DermaRoller ,MyFawnie AA2G serum, KNN G ForceUltrasound., SEA, ChrySun 25% ZnO |
|
|
|
 |
Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:56 am |
| Thank you Dark Moon!!! |
|
|
|
|
|
Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:54 pm |
I assure you Dragon I read what I posted and I am well aware of the pH of water, but I will say at times your posts for those of us not chemists are as clear as mud.
I was questioning this:
| DragoN wrote: |
| Thank you DM.RE: AA2G, It's quite versatile. However the pH in solution is around 2.1. |
No need to respond I can find information from other sources, but thanks anyway.  |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
|
|
|
|
Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:44 am |
| Lotusesther wrote: |
| Thank you Dark Moon!!! |
You are very welcome Lotusesther, the AA2G has a pretty hefty price tag about 30$ per 15ml. I would venture a guess as it becomes more widely used for DIY that might just come down? |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
|
|
|
|
Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:25 am |
It is interesting to see Vitamin C paired with a known glycating agent (glucose)...I am sure there is an explanation for that, one that's over my head for now.
I currently use Ovestin topically on the face.
I also use my own cocktail serum for post dermarolling - containing red palm oil and other vitamins and antioxidants (all oil soluble). It would appear to be of little benefit to attempt adding some form of soy to this serum?
Do I understand that correctly?
Thanks, BFG |
|
|
|
|
|
Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:30 am |
Was $75.00 US for 5 grams from a US supplier so if you are getting it at $30.00 for 15 grams...post the link. I'd love to get it for that price.
| DarkMoon wrote: |
I assure you Dragon I read what I posted and I am well aware of the pH of water, but I will say at times your posts for those of us not chemists are as clear as mud.
I was questioning this:
| DragoN wrote: |
| Thank you DM.RE: AA2G, It's quite versatile. However the pH in solution is around 2.1. |
|
I am certain that you do. I don't question that. In solution = the AA2G only, in water. The pH is very low. More options for formulating given the stability and the pH range. I like it. |
_________________
If you make, first do no harm, your Law, you will never strike the first blow and will be known as a man of peace who can fight like ten tigers, a Human in the act of Being. There is no greater rank than this. Ashida Kim on War.~Cellese~AnteAge Serum and Accelerator, DermaRoller ,MyFawnie AA2G serum, KNN G ForceUltrasound., SEA, ChrySun 25% ZnO |
|
|
|
|
Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:48 am |
Ovestin sounds a lot less trouble
Thnx DragoN and DarkMoon! But at $75 per 5 grams, and p & p on top of that.. and my experience with L-AA was not a nice one (and that where I am never ever oversensitive to anything!)so I don't think I am going to try that for now.
And THANKS A LOT!!! for all the very interesting info on the other ingredients, some of which I had never heard of! |
|
|
|
|
|
Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:42 am |
| DragoN wrote: |
| Was $75.00 US for 5 grams from a US supplier so if you are getting it at $30.00 for 15 grams...post the link. I'd love to get it for that price. |
I am sure you would but that was a business associate who is a major wholesaler of all beauty supplies and ingredients, who would give me the product at his cost. I suppose I should have thought before posting that price and getting any hopes up!
 |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
|
|
|
|
Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:04 am |
15 grams ...I can make... let's see....
27 ounces. DM has a source @ 15 grams for $30.00 she said? Do share the link...
That would work out to~ <$2.00/oz. *sweet* 
Even at $75.00/ 5 grams...still cost $9.00 in AA2G to make it. In expensive when compared to
http://uat3.herworldplus.com/beauty/beauty-picks/beauty-beauty-picks-drwu-intensive-whitening-serum-aa2g-7990-30ml#
I made it for my mom...because her skin is super sensitive.
| Quote: |
| Ovestin sounds a lot less trouble |
Definitely.
https://www.alldaychemist.com/591__Estradiol-Vaginal-Tabs |
_________________
If you make, first do no harm, your Law, you will never strike the first blow and will be known as a man of peace who can fight like ten tigers, a Human in the act of Being. There is no greater rank than this. Ashida Kim on War.~Cellese~AnteAge Serum and Accelerator, DermaRoller ,MyFawnie AA2G serum, KNN G ForceUltrasound., SEA, ChrySun 25% ZnO |
|
|
|
|
Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:08 am |
It would be a personal favor by this person to me, I will not take advantage of a private situation by divulging anything. Sorry! This is a corporation that does not sell wholesale or retail, only sells to distributors who then sell wholesale.
The link you provided to the serum containing the AA2G is a retail product. |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
|
|
|
|
Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:26 am |
Anyone here familiar with the Equol form of soy and it's impact on skin/aging?
Thanks, BFG |
|
|
|
|
|
Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:29 am |
| Barefootgirl wrote: |
Anyone here familiar with the Equol form of soy and it's impact on skin/aging?
Thanks, BFG |
I think DragoN may answer that as I see genistein which she uses is the same thing?
Most everything I find has to do with it as a supplement.
http://thebestskincarestuff.info/soy-based-natural-s-equol-supplements-improve-crows-feet-skin-wrinkles-in-marketwatch-press-release/
Edit to add:
Here is one for skin care:
5. Conclusions
These finding suggest that equol has the potential to be used topically for the treatment and prevention of skin aging, by enhancing ECM components in the skin, based on the following: (1) equol stimulated collagen type 1, collagen type III and ELN protein production, while downregulating MMPs, (2) equol increased the expression of skin antioxidants, relevant for protection against skin damage, (3) equol has the ability to restore skin's components in a positive manner similar to 17β-estradiol by, preventing androgen's damaging skin effects (specifically, 5α-DHT), and (4) equol presumably has an affinity for dermal ERβ suggesting its association in facilitating the antiaging skin benefits of natural estrogens.
Full Abstract on the link:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/biof.191/full |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
|
|
|
|
Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:08 pm |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| It would be a personal favor by this person to me, I will not take advantage of a private situation by divulging anything |
oh goodness....lucky you!!
Fortunately, when I Googled "AA2G DIY skincare"
I found it!!!! Thank you sooo much!
Genistein too
Genistein protects against UVB-induced senescence-like characteristics in human dermal fibroblast by p66Shc own-regulation
This is not an ingestion study....
Effects of the isoflavone 4′,5,7-trihydroxyisoflavone (genistein) on psoralen plus ultraviolet A radiation (PUVA)-induced photodamage
..neither is that one.
The Equol price is a little steep though:
10 g = $1190.00
Maybe your friend can get you a better deal on that? |
_________________
If you make, first do no harm, your Law, you will never strike the first blow and will be known as a man of peace who can fight like ten tigers, a Human in the act of Being. There is no greater rank than this. Ashida Kim on War.~Cellese~AnteAge Serum and Accelerator, DermaRoller ,MyFawnie AA2G serum, KNN G ForceUltrasound., SEA, ChrySun 25% ZnO |
|
|
|
|
Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:25 pm |
I seriously doubt you found my source by searching that, but I know what you will find. .
My friend can get me most anything I am interested in, that one is not for me. |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
|
|
|
|
Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:32 pm |
Equol is certainly not my first choice either. The precursor form though...but rather a pest to formulate with. Low penetration as well.
I don't know what you got when you googled that, maybe this: "skin care solubility chart" will be more helpful?
Several pop up. |
_________________
If you make, first do no harm, your Law, you will never strike the first blow and will be known as a man of peace who can fight like ten tigers, a Human in the act of Being. There is no greater rank than this. Ashida Kim on War.~Cellese~AnteAge Serum and Accelerator, DermaRoller ,MyFawnie AA2G serum, KNN G ForceUltrasound., SEA, ChrySun 25% ZnO |
|
|
|
|
Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:43 pm |
| DragoN wrote: |
Equol is certainly not my first choice either. The precursor form though...but rather a pest to formulate with. Low penetration as well.
I don't know what you got when you googled that, maybe this: "skin care solubility chart" will be more helpful?
Several pop up. |
I don't use anything with possible estrogenic effects due to extremely high iron levels, still in the "normal" range but right at the top. I prefer no blood clots thanks. |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
|
|
|
|
Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:34 am |
If I recall correctly, Equol, *taken orally,* was shown to have beneficial effects on markers of aging skin.
So...sorry to barge in your conversation here ..but it sounds like the bottom line here is that incorporating soy in any effective topical form is either cost prohibitive or formulation prohibitive?
Is that the bottom line?
Thanks, BFG |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:38 am |
| Quote: |
| it sounds like the bottom line here is that incorporating soy in any effective topical form is either cost prohibitive or formulation prohibitive? |
No...just requires an extra step or two. Pretty easy really. The pure form, Genistein...is about 2X the price of 5 grams of the non standardized version, which makes it rather cost effective. Not limited to facial use only. Requires 1% at max..More is not better.
Based on the research, Genistein is quite useful. Is it the "Fountain of Youth in a Cheap Plastic Bottle"? No...Nothing is, but it's pretty darn useful when used appropriately.
I find it interesting the comment re: high iron levels, as in studies it is shown rather clearly the inverse relationship of estrogen and iron levels. Not entirely dissimilar to the activity of collagenase. So many variables.
I think the confusion is around the price of AA2G...that is pricey, but DM says she has a supplier[ for $30.00 / 15 grams which is a far cry better than the $75.00/ 5 grams ...but either way...still less expensive than buying it off the shelf and works beautifully in a body lotion as well. Far less in the way of pH restrictions.
| Quote: |
| Is that the bottom line? |
From the DIY perspective...it's about 5 minutes more fiddle...which saves *me* hundreds of dollars/ month
..which I can put towards a lovely Spa vacay in Thailand.
Given my age, and if I were to figure out the monthly expenditure to purchase anything potentially half as effective as my own brews, and cost that out over the remainder of my life time...that's a butt load of money. Something to the tune of $90000.00 over 15 years. Takes me to Freedom 55. DIY it ~$10800.00...work in 1000 for potential screw ups...still a good deal.
Bottom line? DIY is the way to go.
*Madness*...and ever so effective,
EDIT: Nice find DM, keep scrolling down and the Kinetin information is right there as well. |
_________________
If you make, first do no harm, your Law, you will never strike the first blow and will be known as a man of peace who can fight like ten tigers, a Human in the act of Being. There is no greater rank than this. Ashida Kim on War.~Cellese~AnteAge Serum and Accelerator, DermaRoller ,MyFawnie AA2G serum, KNN G ForceUltrasound., SEA, ChrySun 25% ZnO |
|
|
|
|
Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:16 am |
| Quote: |
| I find it interesting the comment re: high iron levels, as in studies it is shown rather clearly the inverse relationship of estrogen and iron levels. Not entirely dissimilar to the activity of collagenase. So many variables. ] |
Sorry I trust my Three OB/GYN's (some close friends) over anything you may say on that subject.
| Quote: |
| EDIT: Nice find DM, keep scrolling down and the Kinetin information is right there as well. |
Yes I already saw that, I trust BFG's extensive knowledge about dermatology, having read her posts for a good long time I am certain she can read the information for herself. As I said she may well own a copy of the book that was quoted from. |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
|
|
|
|
Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:43 am |
Interrelationships Between Estrogenic Activity, Serum Iron and Ascorbic Acid Levels During the Menstrual Cycle
Iron and menopause: does increased iron affect the health of postmenopausal women?
Jian J, Pelle E, Huang X.
Source
Department of Environmental Medicine, NYU School of Medicine , New York, USA.
Abstract
Estrogen deficiency has been regarded as the main causative factor in menopausal symptoms and diseases. Here, we show that although estrogen decreases by 90%, a concurrent but inverse change occurs in iron levels during menopausal transition. For example, levels of serum ferritin are increased by two- to threefold from before menopause to after menopause. This observation has led us to hypothesize that, in addition to estrogen deficiency, increased iron as a result of menopause could be a risk factor affecting the health of postmenopausal women. Further studies on iron and menopause are clinically relevant and may provide novel therapeutic treatments.
....
Iron and skin aging
During menopausal transition, the skin becomes thin, dry, and wrinkled, which is due to changes in collagen and elastin content, as well as its ability to retain fluids (9). The human body has a limited capacity to remove excess iron; body iron is normally eliminated through the stool, urine, and exfoliation of epidermal cells. About 20% of the 1-mg iron daily from the diet is excreted through the skin (13). In patients with erythrodermic psoriasis, desquamated skin cells account for up to 38% of total body iron loss (34). When body iron storage increases, the skin is exposed to higher levels of iron, which may cause oxidative damage and skin aging during this process. Moreover, the increased stress may make skin more susceptible to UV damage.
Iron and Menopause: Does Increased Iron Affect the Health of Postmenopausal Women?
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| Sorry I trust my Three OB/GYN's (some close friends) over anything you may say on that subject. |
you do that...I sure as heck don't.  |
_________________
If you make, first do no harm, your Law, you will never strike the first blow and will be known as a man of peace who can fight like ten tigers, a Human in the act of Being. There is no greater rank than this. Ashida Kim on War.~Cellese~AnteAge Serum and Accelerator, DermaRoller ,MyFawnie AA2G serum, KNN G ForceUltrasound., SEA, ChrySun 25% ZnO |
|
|
|
|
Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:47 am |
| DragoN wrote: |
Interrelationships Between Estrogenic Activity, Serum Iron and Ascorbic Acid Levels During the Menstrual Cycle
Iron and menopause: does increased iron affect the health of postmenopausal women?
Jian J, Pelle E, Huang X.
Source
Department of Environmental Medicine, NYU School of Medicine , New York, USA.
Abstract
Estrogen deficiency has been regarded as the main causative factor in menopausal symptoms and diseases. Here, we show that although estrogen decreases by 90%, a concurrent but inverse change occurs in iron levels during menopausal transition. For example, levels of serum ferritin are increased by two- to threefold from before menopause to after menopause. This observation has led us to hypothesize that, in addition to estrogen deficiency, increased iron as a result of menopause could be a risk factor affecting the health of postmenopausal women. Further studies on iron and menopause are clinically relevant and may provide novel therapeutic treatments.
....
Iron and skin aging
During menopausal transition, the skin becomes thin, dry, and wrinkled, which is due to changes in collagen and elastin content, as well as its ability to retain fluids (9). The human body has a limited capacity to remove excess iron; body iron is normally eliminated through the stool, urine, and exfoliation of epidermal cells. About 20% of the 1-mg iron daily from the diet is excreted through the skin (13). In patients with erythrodermic psoriasis, desquamated skin cells account for up to 38% of total body iron loss (34). When body iron storage increases, the skin is exposed to higher levels of iron, which may cause oxidative damage and skin aging during this process. Moreover, the increased stress may make skin more susceptible to UV damage.
Iron and Menopause: Does Increased Iron Affect the Health of Postmenopausal Women?
| Quote: |
| Sorry I trust my Three OB/GYN's (some close friends) over anything you may say on that subject. |
you do that...I sure as heck don't. |
LOL. I wouldn't expect you to, you don't know any of them, or my medical information where as they do! |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
|
|
|
|
Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:26 am |
| I wouldn't touch soy with a ten foot pole. |
|
|
|
|
|
Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:52 pm |
| gretchen wrote: |
| I wouldn't touch soy with a ten foot pole. |
why would you say that... Asians eats lots of soy based products and as far as I know most of em live a very healthy n long life.... |
|
|
|
|
|
Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:08 pm |
Thanks DM, I do not own that particular textbook, although I would like to.
BFG |
|
|
|
|
| Mon Apr 29, 2024 2:35 am |
If this is your first visit to the EDS Forums please take the time to register. Registration is required for you to post on the forums. Registration will also give you the ability to track messages of interest, send private messages to other users, participate in Gift Certificates draws and enjoy automatic discounts for shopping at our online store. Registration is free and takes just a few seconds to complete.
Click Here to join our community.
If you are already a registered member on the forums, please login to gain full access to the site. |
|
 |
|
|
