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ACE Serum, any suggestions or DIY'er's?
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Bermie2
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Sat May 12, 2012 8:42 am      Reply with quote
Hi,

I am interested in making a ACE serum. I have tried to find Vit A (DIY) to purchase online. I am in Australia and can't find it or find anywhere that ships to Australia.

Has anyone any suggestions please?

Or a good pre made would be great. I was looking at DS Labs Vietrol but not sure.
I really want to upt my Vit A regime. At the moment I use Retin A .05% about 4 times a week, but find it drying. I did use Isomers Retiniacin and really liked it, might have to go back to that , but it is sold out at the moment where I buy from.

Also looked at the Environ products, has anyone used them?
Incorporating all this with my derma rolling.
I have rolled with a 1.5mm 3 times now, about 4 weeks apart. I am just about to order a .25mm for every day use.

Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated
TIA!

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Barefootgirl
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Sat May 12, 2012 12:08 pm      Reply with quote
Do you have a vitamin store near you or online in AUS that can ship?

You could use retinyl palmitate, d-alpha tocopheroyl and possibly, oil based ascorbates to create your own in a base of antioxidant oil - again, vitamin capsules containing carotenes, lycopene, etc.

BFG
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Sat May 12, 2012 12:09 pm      Reply with quote
Bermie2 wrote:
Hi,

I am interested in making a ACE serum. I have tried to find Vit A (DIY) to purchase online. I am in Australia and can't find it or find anywhere that ships to Australia.

Has anyone any suggestions please?

Or a good pre made would be great. I was looking at DS Labs Vietrol but not sure.
I really want to upt my Vit A regime. At the moment I use Retin A .05% about 4 times a week, but find it drying. I did use Isomers Retiniacin and really liked it, might have to go back to that , but it is sold out at the moment where I buy from.

Also looked at the Environ products, has anyone used them?
Incorporating all this with my derma rolling.
I have rolled with a 1.5mm 3 times now, about 4 weeks apart. I am just about to order a .25mm for every day use.

Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated
TIA!


I am going to be looking into the Environ C products myself. There are no local sellers close to me, but apparently I can buy from the US distributor directly.

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Bermie2
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Sun May 13, 2012 4:26 am      Reply with quote
Thanks for the suggestions..can't seem to find anywhere to buy the retinyl palmitate.

do you mean use capsules?

I found a seller of Environ...the prices are actually not that bad, except the C Sequence range is expensive?

Anyone else?

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Barefootgirl
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Sun May 13, 2012 4:40 am      Reply with quote
Yes, if you search the board archives, you will find easy recipes for oil based vitamin serums that involve breaking open capsules and emptying them into a carrier oil base.

You have to read the descriptions and labels of Vitamin A capsules very carefully. Some will say "retinyl palmitate" or a similar retinyl ester.

Good luck, it's not hard, really.

BFG
Firefox7275
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Sun May 13, 2012 8:49 pm      Reply with quote
As I understand it the conversion in skin goes retinyl palmitate ---> retinol ---> retinaldehyde ---> retinoic acid. Going in reverse each are gentler and less effective than the one before due to the conversion rates. So if you want to back off but still maintain a good level of efficacy, it would make more sense to choose retinol or retinaldehyde rather than retinyl palmitate.

This place has two retinoids, the company does ship to Australia because the blogger Dempeaux uses them.
http://stores.skinessentialactives.com/Categories.bok
http://www.dempeaux.com/
If you opt for capsules check what other ingredients are there aside from the active, tablets and capsules tend to contain filler ingredients which you don't want on your skin.

Which form of vitamin C are you looking for? You may find the form of A you want to use is not compatible with the form of C you want to use, so you may be better off with two serums.

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Bermie2
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Mon May 14, 2012 6:38 am      Reply with quote
Thanks for the advice!

At the moment I am using Skincueticals (knock off) C & Feurlic Acid? Not liking it at all..I am going to go with a Tetra C next time...maybe DIY, although I have just received an email from Environ about the CBoost which sounds really good too. Anyway probably one of those?

http://touchofskincare.com.au/environ-evenescence/environ-evenescence-cboost.html

I am using Retin A but want to use Vit A every night and the Retin A makes me too dry, so that is why I was looking for a alternative.

I have a EDS voucher, any suggestions for a retinol ready made on here that anyone would recommend?

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Mon May 14, 2012 6:44 am      Reply with quote
Bermie2 wrote:
Thanks for the advice!

At the moment I am using Skincueticals (knock off) C & Feurlic Acid? Not liking it at all..I am going to go with a Tetra C next time...maybe DIY, although I have just received an email from Environ about the CBoost which sounds really good too. Anyway probably one of those?

http://touchofskincare.com.au/environ-evenescence/environ-evenescence-cboost.html

I am using Retin A but want to use Vit A every night and the Retin A makes me too dry, so that is why I was looking for a alternative.

I have a EDS voucher, any suggestions for a retinol ready made on here that anyone would recommend?


I have used the Green Cream #9 prior to starting RA, it comes in #3 #6 and #9.....3% 6% and 9% retinol respectively.
I bought it with my first voucher from EDS! Very Happy

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Bermie2
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Mon May 14, 2012 7:50 am      Reply with quote
Thanks DM!! I did see that green cream and was wondering which # I would go for, especially having already been using Retin A .05%.

so sounds like the #9 would be ok to jump straight into? Could I use this straight after derma rolling?

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Mon May 14, 2012 7:57 am      Reply with quote
Bermie2 wrote:
Thanks DM!! I did see that green cream and was wondering which # I would go for, especially having already been using Retin A .05%.

so sounds like the #9 would be ok to jump straight into? Could I use this straight after derma rolling?


I never had any irritation from the Green Cream #9 and had not been using any retinol for quite a while! I would say you should be fine with it unless you are very sensitive!

I am about to start rolling so I can't say 100% on that but it seems there is no reason not to use it after!

HTH

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Bermie2
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Mon May 14, 2012 8:03 am      Reply with quote
Sorry to be a pain but one more question..
I just went and had a look, is it a gel formula? or a cream? thanks!

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Mon May 14, 2012 8:09 am      Reply with quote
Bermie2 wrote:
Sorry to be a pain but one more question..
I just went and had a look, is it a gel formula? or a cream? thanks!


You are not a pain, It is a light cream formula. Smile
I usually prefer serums to creams but this I have to say I did like very much.

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Bermie2
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Mon May 14, 2012 8:37 am      Reply with quote
Thanks DM, I might just give that a try.. Smile

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Mon May 14, 2012 8:39 am      Reply with quote
Bermie2 wrote:
Thanks DM, I might just give that a try.. Smile


You are welcome Bermie, let us know what you decide and how it works out!

If you are at all like me I get into the store on EDS and see so much I want to try! Smile

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Bermie2
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Mon May 14, 2012 10:37 am      Reply with quote
Well I ordered all the ingredients to make a Tetra C serum..it worked out more expensive than the ready made I was going to order from Environ, but I suppose in the long run it will work out cheaper!

and Green Cream #9..

so I'll see how I go with those!

so disappointed, when I went to do my EDS order my voucher was invalid, looks like I used it already!! Can't remember doing that, but these days with my mind..lol!

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Mon May 14, 2012 10:49 am      Reply with quote
Bermie2 wrote:
Well I ordered all the ingredients to make a Tetra C serum..it worked out more expensive than the ready made I was going to order from Environ, but I suppose in the long run it will work out cheaper!

and Green Cream #9..

so I'll see how I go with those!

so disappointed, when I went to do my EDS order my voucher was invalid, looks like I used it already!! Can't remember doing that, but these days with my mind..lol!


That is a shame about the voucher!

The Tetra C has gone way up in price, but it lasts a long tine so in the long run you will save!

You sound good to go, keep us posted!

I am about 5 weeks from roll one! Laughing

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Firefox7275
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Mon May 14, 2012 12:08 pm      Reply with quote
Bermie2 wrote:
Thanks for the advice!

At the moment I am using Skincueticals (knock off) C & Feurlic Acid? Not liking it at all..I am going to go with a Tetra C next time...maybe DIY, although I have just received an email from Environ about the CBoost which sounds really good too. Anyway probably one of those?

http://touchofskincare.com.au/environ-evenescence/environ-evenescence-cboost.html

I am using Retin A but want to use Vit A every night and the Retin A makes me too dry, so that is why I was looking for a alternative.

I have a EDS voucher, any suggestions for a retinol ready made on here that anyone would recommend?


Is the CE ferulic too harsh? According to JPShogun on SCT (MD and thorough researcher)
"Ascorbyl Palmitrate (AP), Ascorbyl tetraisopalmitoyl (ATIP) and Tetrahexyldecyl ascorbate (TA) : These are all fat soluble therefore pH doesn't matter and absorption is great. Stable and potent antioxidant. However, they lack an ability to boost collagen synthesis. Therefore, not very useful."
http://www.skincaretalk.com/t/30849/sodium-ascorbyl-phosphate-sap

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Mon May 14, 2012 3:42 pm      Reply with quote
Or you could use another form of C called AA-2G which isnt dependent on a low pH to work.
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/122/4/871.full.pdf

My experience with Green Cream was a lot of purging at first (never had that with Retin-a so Im thinking it was the high % of silicones in the Green Cream that did the number on me.) Undoing purging is a PITA: all the red spots from hyperpigmentation take forever to fade.
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Mon May 14, 2012 4:36 pm      Reply with quote
In my opinion, there's a difference in the types and forms of actives that should be used post-rolling and ones that are used any old day of the week, but hey, what do I know LOL

I try to avoid triggering any additional inflammation/irritation beyond what the roller achieves by itself.
BFG
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Tue May 15, 2012 3:49 am      Reply with quote
@firefox, it may well be the feurlic, I have tried different L ascorbic acid and they were fine, just don't like this one on my skin, smells funny, looks clear, but I think its oxidised?

@fawnie, what do you mean by purging? spots?

@BFG, what special treamtments to you intend to use after derma rolling?
Any advice is appreciated...thanks!

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Tue May 15, 2012 9:32 am      Reply with quote
Bermie2 wrote:
@firefox, it may well be the feurlic, I have tried different L ascorbic acid and they were fine, just don't like this one on my skin, smells funny, looks clear, but I think its oxidised?

@fawnie, what do you mean by purging? spots?

@BFG, what special treamtments to you intend to use after derma rolling?
Any advice is appreciated...thanks!


Sorry Bermie if I led you astray on the Green Cream, it is the only retinol I know of that EDS offers,

Re: FA,

Bio-medical considerations



UV visible spectrum of ferulic acid, with lambda max at 321 and a shoulder at 278 nm
Ferulic acid, like many natural phenols, is an antioxidant in vitro in the sense that it is reactive toward free radicals such as reactive oxygen species (ROS). ROS and free radicals are implicated in DNA damage, cancer, accelerated cell aging. Animal studies and in vitro studies suggest that ferulic acid may have direct antitumor activity against breast cancer[2] and liver cancer.[3] Ferulic acid may have pro-apoptotic effects in cancer cells, thereby leading to their destruction.[3] Ferulic acid may be effective at preventing cancer induced by exposure to the carcinogenic compounds benzopyrene[4] and 4-nitroquinoline 1-oxide.[5] Note that these are not randomized controlled trials done with human participants, and therefore, the results of these studies may not be directly applicable to human use.
If added to a topical preparation of ascorbic acid and vitamin E, ferulic acid may reduce oxidative stress and formation of thymine dimers in skin.[6] There is also a small amount of research showing oral supplements of ferulic acid can inhibit melanin production in the process of skin whitening.[13]

As far as odor you may find more about that here, source from which it is derived?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferulic_acid

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Tue May 15, 2012 9:44 am      Reply with quote
Bermie2 wrote:
@firefox, it may well be the feurlic, I have tried different L ascorbic acid and they were fine, just don't like this one on my skin, smells funny, looks clear, but I think its oxidised?


You don't like it because is smells funny or something else as well?

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Tue May 15, 2012 9:55 am      Reply with quote
Barefootgirl wrote:
In my opinion, there's a difference in the types and forms of actives that should be used post-rolling and ones that are used any old day of the week, but hey, what do I know LOL

I try to avoid triggering any additional inflammation/irritation beyond what the roller achieves by itself.
BFG


Agree! And there is stuff in every day skin care you don't want to penetrate the skin too! (think silicones and the like).
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Tue May 15, 2012 10:02 am      Reply with quote
Lotusesther wrote:
Barefootgirl wrote:
In my opinion, there's a difference in the types and forms of actives that should be used post-rolling and ones that are used any old day of the week, but hey, what do I know LOL

I try to avoid triggering any additional inflammation/irritation beyond what the roller achieves by itself.
BFG


Agree! And there is stuff in every day skin care you don't want to penetrate the skin too! (think silicones and the like).


Agreed, My Bad!

As I posted the Green Cream was the only retinol the EDS sells, and Bermie thought she had a voucher, hopefully she can use instead of the RA which was irritating.

I plan on making my own potion to roll with without added nasties!

Again Sorry!!!!! Embarassed

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Wed May 16, 2012 7:24 am      Reply with quote
No worries DM! I was looking at the green cream myself and was interested anyway, honestly no biggie.. Very Happy

@firefox...I don't like the feel, I find it very drying and sticky. I have used other Vit C and loved them but not this one. The only difference that stands out is the ferulic?

I am not going to be rolling for about 6 weeks anyway have a few things coming up.

On a side note, went to doc for by Botox on Monday, have a really good chat with him, this was my first time to use this guy as he is so popular and busy I have been waiting 5 months for an appointment. Anyway he asked what I do for my skin because he said my skin is beautiful.. Shock and it was very obvious that I looked after it! I talked about my desire to have a facelift (my issue is sag at the jawline) He said that with a facelift he would expect a 20 year reduction in appearence because my skin was so good.. Shock I was very happy and pleased that I must be doing something right! Sorry don't mean to sound up myself but thought it was worth sharing...all the effort we put in is worth it!!

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