ReLuma: general and science discussion
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free skin care · Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:56 pm

Lacy.

I am trying hard to understand here what exactly you are trying to say. I think a lot gets lost when we cannot see expressions or even know each other well enough to understand subtle nuances.

You are worried that reluma can cause facial hair growth. I have not had that issue nor has anyone I know of. You did however say that Cellese could not cause facial hair growth when Sigma seemed to think that her and her mothers increased facial hair had been caused by anteage.
I am not trying to be clever or difficult I think you obviously know more about this than I do and I would appreciate it if you could explain the difference to me. I am just an ordinary woman searching for the fountain of youth.

I get the impression that you really do not like the company that produces reluma. Please make me understand, it may be that what you know has an impact on my next purchase.

free skin care · Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:28 pm

loopylori wrote:

Lacy.

I am trying hard to understand here what exactly you are trying to say. I think a lot gets lost when we cannot see expressions or even know each other well enough to understand subtle nuances.

You are worried that reluma can cause facial hair growth. I have not had that issue nor has anyone I know of. You did however say that Cellese could not cause facial hair growth when Sigma seemed to think that her and her mothers increased facial hair had been caused by anteage.
I am not trying to be clever or difficult I think you obviously know more about this than I do and I would appreciate it if you could explain the difference to me. I am just an ordinary woman searching for the fountain of youth.

I get the impression that you really do not like the company that produces reluma. Please make me understand, it may be that what you know has an impact on my next purchase.

Sigma and her mom are not the only ones, cross posting what Keliu posted on the AA thread:

Keliu wrote:

Apparently, DragonN also experienced facial hair growth from using AnteAGE and claims she brought up the matter with DrJ even before she tried it.

Quote:

Sigma,
I experienced same. Thought it was my imagination. Like yourself, I have a problem in that regards to begin with. I did not notice same with CP's or CuGHK though.

Despite that, when I stopped using, the problem also receded with. Won't stop me from using with PCIT though. In that regards it is a keeper.

I recall razzing DrJ about this before even using the serum, that IF he had anything viable in there, this could be a potential problem. As it is not only myself experiencing this, something remains viable and is working on the pluripotent stem cells of the hair follicle.

Read more: http://www.skincare.boards.net/index.cgi?board=productreviews&action=display&thread=28&page=2#ixzz1zGk5P8MM

free skin care · Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:53 pm

CookieD wrote:

Tiny wrote:

This might help Cookie:

Habib Torfi Founder, Chairman and CEO. Before founding Invitrx in Irvine, CA back in 2003; he directed the Laboratory of Regenerative Bioengineering and Repair for the Department of Surgery at UCLA from 1998-2001. The laboratory goal was discovering and developing proprietary, cell-based therapeutics utilizing adult stem cells derived from adipose tissue. Mr. Torfi was the director of Epithelial Autograft Facility at UC Davis Medical Center in Sacramento, California. Epithelial Autograft Facility provided three dimensional tissue engineered skin and cornea for burn, diabetic leg ulcer and patients with ocular surface disorders. Mr. Torfi holds an Undergraduate degree in Microbiology and a graduate degree in Human genetics. He is licensed as a clinical scientist in state of California. Mr. Torfi has published numerous papers and holds several patents in stem cell and bioengineering field.

It clearly states before founding in 2003. Not sure if that answers you, but he says he was part of it all prior, if I read this right.

If this is right, (It could be I haven't read any of the listed studies) why is his name not included on any of the studies.(or any of the people listed on his website) It does say above he has published numerous papers and holds several patents. Why would he not list studies he has done? The one study reference on the sales site for them says it was ongoing and they listed the results after 4 weeks of use. This product has been out since a least 2005.(there are some old reviews on EDS) That's 7 years ago. I'm sure the trials are done by now and could be published. It does say they have the study at their company but don't list or publish it on the site anywhere I can find. Maybe I'm not looking in the right place.

I ask this same question on the AA thread awhile ago. I would like to see studies done on the product itself. I read about ingredients and I either like them or not. If I like them I will try to find products that have them in it. When I find something that has what I like I would like to see if when they put all the ingredients together whether it still works the same way. I would think companies would formulate their products with the right combination/ph levels etc. but I'm not sure that is true. I know I see products that their ingredients cancel out each other. With the very little science that I understand it is hard for me sometimes to know what goes with what. I know Skinceuticals and TNS have studies on their actual products and i sure there are others and I'm sure some of the big guys like P&G Have studies but those products have a little to many "extra" ingredients for my taste. Sorry to go off topic. Just trying to explain my interest in the actual study of a product. Smile

ETA: This is not about anyone product having studies or not. It is about studies on finished products in general.

Cookie it is right on Invitrx Who are we, I am inclined to think ReKuma is the consumer section of Invitrx, as it shows they have esty, PS and medical divisions for which they develop and sell stem cell cytokines.:

The Management Team

Habib Torfi Founder, Chairman and CEO. Before founding Invitrx in Irvine, CA back in 2003; he directed the Laboratory of Regenerative Bioengineering and Repair for the Department of Surgery at UCLA from 1998-2001. The laboratory goal was discovering and developing proprietary, cell-based therapeutics utilizing adult stem cells derived from adipose tissue. Mr. Torfi was the director of Epithelial Autograft Facility at UC Davis Medical Center in Sacramento, California. Epithelial Autograft Facility provided three dimensional tissue engineered skin and cornea for burn, diabetic leg ulcer and patients with ocular surface disorders. Mr. Torfi holds an Undergraduate degree in Microbiology and a graduate degree in Human genetics. He is licensed as a clinical scientist in state of California. Mr. Torfi has published numerous papers and holds several patents in stem cell and bioengineering field.

http://invitrxtherapeutics.squarespace.com/who-we-are/

free skin care · Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:11 pm

CookieD - with regard to all the cytokines/stem cell studies which are being referenced and posted everywhere, I agree with you. I also want to see some studies on the actual product. Kassy recently posted a study on the topical application of stem cells (sorry, I can't remember on which thread it was posted - there's so many of them now) but it mentioned that injecting was more effective than topical use. To apply the stem cells topically, they used a saturated sponge which was left on the skin for a period of time. I realise that this study was referencing stem cells and I have no idea whether this would also apply to cytokines.

So to sum up, I'm getting sick of all the medical studies which in my mind bear no real reference to a cosmetic topical - both Invitrx and Celesse would do well to publish their clinical data on their actual products.

free skin care · Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:27 pm

Keliu wrote:

CookieD - with regard to all the cytokines/stem cell studies which are being referenced and posted everywhere, I agree with you. I also want to see some studies on the actual product. Kassy recently posted a study on the topical application of stem cells (sorry, I can't remember on which thread it was posted - there's so many of them now) but it mentioned that injecting was more effective than topical use. To apply the stem cells topically, they used a saturated sponge which was left on the skin for a period of time. I realise that this study was referencing stem cells and I have no idea whether this would also apply to cytokines.

So to sum up, I'm getting sick of all the medical studies which in my mind bear no real reference to a cosmetic topical - both Invitrx and Celesse would do well to publish their clinical data on their actual products.

I don't disagree, but Invitrx uses cytokines in medical procedures, Knee surgeries, ect. Which is why I think we find medical studies. DM might be right, RL might be their skincare side. That does not excuse the lack of information on their skincare. But just a thought as to why the abundance of medical information.

I like Cookie (whose using Cellese) am doing my my own study, I've stopped all products but the pmd. I am being above and beyond critical of my own skin, I certainly do not want to keep forking over top dollar for any product not showing me significant improvements.

Again, all I can say is email them and ask, don't shoot me for saying that, I'd ask for you but honestly I get all confused on just what the two of you are asking. If you ask, then you know you've covered your question.

I did some searching today and this link, does some heavy marketing on why one should buy this and what one should expect, while it does NOT show studies, it gives data of the studies and it does give some interesting info on cytokines in general.

http://www.buyrelumatoday.com/faq/

free skin care · Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:42 pm

Any 'clinical trial' that can't present biopsies but relies on 'self assessment' is nothing but a selling ruse IMO.

If I just want cosmetic results I'll use Spac.

The Reluma reviews sound very promising, but I'll wait for half a year or so before I take the plunge if by then the response is still so very positive. Proof, pudding, eating.

free skin care · Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:46 pm

Lotusesther wrote:

Any 'clinical trial' that can't present biopsies but relies on 'self assessment' is nothing but a selling ruse IMO.

If I just want cosmetic results I'll use Spac.

The Reluma reviews sound very promising, but I'll wait for half a year or so before I take the plunge if by then the response is still so very positive. Proof, pudding, eating.

I actually agree with you, they mean very little to me as well. I do understand others wanting them but the proof will be my own face, or the face of someone I trust and even then, results on one might not be the same on others. So I am giving this a whirl, I do think the theory behind it makes sense, now to see if it actually works in real time.

free skin care · Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:33 pm

Keliu wrote:

CookieD - with regard to all the cytokines/stem cell studies which are being referenced and posted everywhere, I agree with you. I also want to see some studies on the actual product. Kassy recently posted a study on the topical application of stem cells (sorry, I can't remember on which thread it was posted - there's so many of them now) but it mentioned that injecting was more effective than topical use. To apply the stem cells topically, they used a saturated sponge which was left on the skin for a period of time. I realise that this study was referencing stem cells and I have no idea whether this would also apply to cytokines.

So to sum up, I'm getting sick of all the medical studies which in my mind bear no real reference to a cosmetic topical - both Invitrx and Celesse would do well to publish their clinical data on their actual products.

The study that Kassy posted is right on this thread page 7 but all gets lost in this, that and the other? To be as frank as I can it is quite confusing to me that the same people who ask for studies backing up claims are then saying the studies mean nothing? I am beginning to feel like a monkey jumping through hoops for what entertainment?

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=45705&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=150

I did post that (while I have not found the actual clinical trial) this was tested on over 10,000 people

DarkMoon wrote:

Kassy_A wrote:

Keliu wrote:

But am I now to believe that all their data is nonsense and that the product is actually pro-aging because their competitor tells me it is? DrJ posted this recently in response to the best way to avoid skin laxity:

Quote:

And they are? (aside from avoiding sunshine, booze, ciggys, and all products containing adipose-derived cytokines)

Clearly, he is stating that adipose-derived cytokines are harmful.

From the "6th Annual Stem Cell Summit":

In a moment of jest, he referred to “the arrogance of those working with bone marrow.” Caplan explained that “as it turns out, the winner of MSC population is adipose tissue” explaining that per ml, adipose fat tissue has 300-500 fold number of healing mesenchymal stem cells compared to bone marrow.

http://www.cosmeticsurg.net/blog/2011/03/17/stem-cell-summit-adipose-tissue-has-more-stem-cells-than-bone-marrow/

This "Dr Caplan" quoted above has authored more than 300 papers on the subject.

And here's a quick search I did for "adipose vs bone marrow derived stem cells" for your reading pleasure.. Laughing

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=adipose%20vs%20bone%20marrow%20derived%20stem%20cells

Thank you Kassy!

------------------------------------------------

I also posted a theory as to Lacy's question all just my thinking and we will see what an email holds but here goes again:

I just want to add it is working nicely for me but the minute it becomes a dud (if it does) I will post that on both this thread and the review thread in bold bright red large letters so nobody misses it!

This is the post:

DarkMoon wrote:

Lacy53 wrote:

I have no interest in a reply from ReLuma because I won't be using their products (due to the hair growth question). But someone who is interested in this product line can/should write to them. Just FYI, products that actually stimulate hair regrowth will cause hair issues in undesirable locations; that's why it is important to follow the directions carefully.

Even if their original hair product didn't work (ie: the marketing was less than honest) how do you explain this?

Ingredients: Human Adipose Derived Stem Cell Conditioned Media, Glycerin, Sodium Carboxymethyl Cellulose, Sodium Benzoate, Hydrolized Keratin, Gluconolactone, Panthenol, Allantoin, Sodium PCA, Oleth-20, Phenoxyethanol, Water

Once again a familiar ingredients list, with the primary ingredient being Human Adipose Derived Stem Cell Conditioned Media. Said to result in "significant lash growth, new lashes, as well as longer darker existing ones" as well as "It can also be used with success on eyebrows; for filling in gaps and helping the hairs look darker and stronger."

Either Human Adipose Derived Stem Cell Conditioned Media helps grow new, darker, longer hair or it doesn't. The marketing and reviews say it does, but only where you want it to grow. Very selective! Sorry, my BS meter is reading sky high. Laughing

I just want the truth or at least a reasonable explanation to resolve this apparent contradiction. You can all make jokes about it, but it is a serious question.

Actually I would venture a guess that you know already that Human Adipose Stem cell Conditioned Media is a broad term, just as Bone Marrow Stem Cell Cytokines is? More than likely a proprietary blend A.K.A "Trade Secret"?

In my layman's terms or as Dr. J put it, it is in the mix and "teaching which growth factors to signal what.

I am thinking that Invitrx may just have managed to fined a way to "teach" the correct groups of cytokines/growth factors to do the job intended for the desired outcome. Below is about stability however it does show there are many different cytokines/growth factors that Invitrx (ReLuma's supplier} is working with and I would think they all signal different functions regarding skin or hair.

Quoting and charts:

Title: Adipose-derived Mesenchymal Stem Cell Growth Factor and Cytokine Stability

Authors: Ho MR, RA Soriano, Vo DH, Vo ALY, Torfi H

Abstract

As cell-based therapies progress, adult stem cells hold a high level of interest field of regenerative medicine. Adipose-derived mesenchymal stem cells (ADSCs) are specifically being targeted as a viable autologous cell population in therapeutics due their relative abundance and ease of harvest. ADSCs cultured in vitro secrete signaling proteins including cytokines and growth factors which have demonstrated diverse regenerative capabilities when topically applied to the epidermis. As a result, cytokines and growth factors are incorporated into various topical cosmetic products. One major concern regarding the use of cytokines and growth factors in cosmetic products is the sensitivity of these proteins to environmental changes. The primary purpose of this study is to present preliminary data regarding the maintained integrity of cytokines and growth factors in cosmetic serum.

Keywords: cytokines, growth factors, adipose-derived stem cells, protein integrity.

http://invitrxtherapeutics.squarespace.com/publications/

References
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3. Watson RE, Griffiths CE. Pathologic aspects of cutaneous photoaging.
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4. DeLany JP, Floyd ZE, Zvonic S, Smith A, Gravois A, Reiners E, Wu X,
Kilroy G, Lefervre M, Gimble. Proteomic analysis of primary cultures
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5. Kratchmarova I, Kalume DE, Blagoev B, Scherer PE, Podtelejnikov AV, Molina
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6. Rehman J, Traktuev D, Li J, Merfeld-Clauss S, Temm-Grove CJ,
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their soluble factors in photoaging. Arch Dermatol Res 2009;301:329-336.
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in stem cell proliferation and up-regulation of VEGF and bFGF. Wound Rep Reg
2009;17: 540–547.
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handling on the stability of interleukin-6, tumour necrosis factor-alpha and leptin.
Cytokine. 2000 Nov;12:1712-1716.
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Assays for Plasma Cytokines and Soluble Activation Markers. Clin Diagn Lob
Immunol 1999 Jan;6(1):89-95.
13.Porter AE, Auth J, Prince M, Ghidini A, Brenneman DE, Spong CY.
Optimization of cytokine stability in stored amniotic fluid. Am J Obstet
Gynecol. 2001 Aug;185(2):459-62.
14.Zuk PA, Zhu M, Mizuno H, Huang J, Futrell W, Katz AJ, Benhaim P, Lorenz P,
Hedrick MH. Multilineage Cells from Human Adipose Tissue: Implications for
Cell-Based Therapies. Tissue Engineering 2001; 7(2):211-228

15.Pirog KA, Stabinsky Y, Goldman R. Cytokine Index Second Edition. Rocky Hill,
NJ. Prepotech Inc 2006.
16.Basilico C, Moscatelli D. The FGF family of growth factors and oncogenes. Adv
Cancer Res 1992; 59: 115–165.
17. Akasaka Y, Ono I, Yamashita T et al. Basic fibroblast growth factor promotes
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wound healing. Clinical and Experimental Dermatology 2008; 33: 176–182.
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accelerates and improves second-degree burn wound healing. Wound Rep Reg
2008; 16: 635-648.
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YS, Kang KS. bFGF enhances the IGFs-mediated pluripotent and differentiation
potentials in multipotent stem cells. Growth Factors 2009; 27(6): 425-437.
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407: 249-257.
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Receptors as Targets for the Development of Anti-Angiogenesis Strategies.
Current Pharmaceutical Design 2007; 13: 2025-2044.
23.Yancopoulos GD, Davis S, Gale NW, Rudge JS, Wiegan SJ, Holash J. Vascularspecific growth factors and blood vessel formation. Nature 2000; 407: 242–248.
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13: 9-22.
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http://invitrxtherapeutics.squarespace.com/storage/References.pdf

free skin care · Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:55 pm

DarkMoon wrote:

To be as frank as I can it is quite confusing to me that the same people who ask for studies backing up claims are then saying the studies mean nothing? I am beginning to feel like a monkey jumping through hoops for what entertainment?

To be equally frank, I think people are tired of seeing all the pasted and posted (and repeatedly repasted and reposted) studies that do not deal with the specific products.

I am just waiting for the studies on Reluma and AnteAge at this point, because that's all that really matters.

free skin care · Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:59 pm

bethany wrote:

DarkMoon wrote:

To be as frank as I can it is quite confusing to me that the same people who ask for studies backing up claims are then saying the studies mean nothing? I am beginning to feel like a monkey jumping through hoops for what entertainment?

To be equally frank, I think people are tired of seeing all the pasted and posted (and repeatedly repasted and reposted) studies that do not deal with the specific products.

I am just waiting for the studies on Reluma and AnteAge at this point, because that's all that really matters.

They are done by Invitrx makers of ReLuma and just don't read them, they have been posted to satisfy requests.

Any others interested contact information has been provided, but as I said my thoughts neither company will give exact formulas they are propitiatory I am sure!

free skin care · Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:10 pm

DarkMoon wrote:

bethany wrote:

DarkMoon wrote:

To be as frank as I can it is quite confusing to me that the same people who ask for studies backing up claims are then saying the studies mean nothing? I am beginning to feel like a monkey jumping through hoops for what entertainment?

To be equally frank, I think people are tired of seeing all the pasted and posted (and repeatedly repasted and reposted) studies that do not deal with the specific products.

I am just waiting for the studies on Reluma and AnteAge at this point, because that's all that really matters.

They are done by Invitrx makers of ReLuma and just don't read them, they have been posted to satisfy requests.

Any others interested contact information has been provided, but as I said my thoughts neither company will give exact formulas they are propitiatory I am sure!

No one is asking for proprietary formulas...that would be unreasonable. People just want to see the clinical studies on Reluma that are on file per the website.

Thanks for emailing them...since you are a happy, repeat customer I am hoping they will share them with you!

free skin care · Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:16 pm

bethany wrote:

DarkMoon wrote:

bethany wrote:

DarkMoon wrote:

To be as frank as I can it is quite confusing to me that the same people who ask for studies backing up claims are then saying the studies mean nothing? I am beginning to feel like a monkey jumping through hoops for what entertainment?

To be equally frank, I think people are tired of seeing all the pasted and posted (and repeatedly repasted and reposted) studies that do not deal with the specific products.

I am just waiting for the studies on Reluma and AnteAge at this point, because that's all that really matters.

They are done by Invitrx makers of ReLuma and just don't read them, they have been posted to satisfy requests.

Any others interested contact information has been provided, but as I said my thoughts neither company will give exact formulas they are propitiatory I am sure!

No one is asking for proprietary formulas...that would be unreasonable. People just want to see the clinical studies on Reluma that are on file per the website.

Thanks for emailing them...since you are a happy, repeat customer I am hoping they will share them with you!

You are welcome,

I did mention I was a very happy customer in my email to both ReLuma and Invitrx.

I would not expect a reply until after the Holiday weekend seeing as I contacted then late in the day.

I will post whatever reply I receive in full.

free skin care · Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:00 pm

Lotusesther wrote:

Any 'clinical trial' that can't present biopsies but relies on 'self assessment' is nothing but a selling ruse IMO.

If I just want cosmetic results I'll use Spac.

The Reluma reviews sound very promising, but I'll wait for half a year or so before I take the plunge if by then the response is still so very positive. Proof, pudding, eating.

Here's a quick blurb from skincarephysicians.com agingskinnet (arm of the American Academy of Dermotology):

Age-fighting creams, gels, and serums are so wrapped up in promise and attractive packaging; it can be hard to separate fact from fiction. To help you save money and minimize disappointment, dermatologists dispel some common myths.

MYTH: “Clinically proven” means the product has been approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA).

FACT: While drugs are subject to the FDA’s intensive review and approval process, cosmetics are not. The FDA classifies many over-the-counter age-fighting products as cosmetics. WHEN THE TERM “clinically proven” appears on such a product, it can mean that the product was given to people to try for a few weeks. These people then reported whether or not they saw improvement. The FDA does not review such reports.

...or this quickie (same source):

“Clinically proven” DOES NOT necessarily mean the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) found the product EFFECTIVE. If the FDA does not classify the product as a drug, “clinically proven” usually means the product was given to a group of people for a few weeks to try and then report whether or not they saw improvement. The FDA does not review such reports.
(I guess any of the stem cell/cytokine products will fly under regulatory and accountability radar until they're reclassified as 'drugs'? I don't know)

free skin care · Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:16 pm

Tiny wrote:

DM might be right, RL might be their skincare side. That does not excuse the lack of information on their skincare. But just a thought as to why the abundance of medical information.

From a site I found it does appear Invtrx used to sell directly (may still to medspas, esty offices, derms and plastic surgeons) I have found countless numbers of those using and selling ReLuma (Invtrx) products. The link with the logo on site takes you to go daddy as Invtrx has changed their domain name since. You will see in the logo it says "Recapture your youthful appearance with Invitrx's full line of dermatology products."

Radiant Skin Clinic » Manufacturers » ReLuma

As we age, dermal fibroblast cells become dormant - skin becomes thinner, loses elasticity, and circulation lessens. ReLuma's technology activates dermal fibroblast cells, using your own body's repair process to create more collagen, elastin, and other matrix proteins that are curcial in helping your skin look and stay healthy, and feel younger. Take advantage fo this new adult stem cell technology to give your skin the boost it needs today.

http://www.radiantskinclinic.com/products/manufacturers.php?manufacturerid=104

free skin care · Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:47 am

Quote:

Ingredients: Human Adipose Derived Stem Cell Conditioned Media, Glycerin, Sodium Carboxymethyl Cellulose, Sodium Benzoate, Hydrolized Keratin, Gluconolactone, Panthenol, Allantoin, Sodium PCA, Oleth-20, Phenoxyethanol, Water

Once again a familiar ingredients list, with the primary ingredient being Human Adipose Derived Stem Cell Conditioned Media. Said to result in "significant lash growth, new lashes, as well as longer darker existing ones" as well as "It can also be used with success on eyebrows; for filling in gaps and helping the hairs look darker and stronger."

I have absolutely zero scientific background, but as a wanna-be writer I like to make stuff up about possible hows and whys.

My take on this question is as follows: maybe we can't see the forest for the trees? If stem cells are supposed to poke our ageing cells awake and basically mimic the action of youthful cells, could this be how the same product can have different results in different areas? If your eyelash cells are forced via this producs to ACT young, your eyelash hair would grow like it did when you were young? i.e. maybe it's the ACTION of the product rather than topical ingredients making the hair grow. So, we put the product on our skin, and our skin behaves in a more youthful way. We put the product on our eyelashes, and our eyelash are 16 again!

So the same product, in different bottles for different marketing purposes.

Totally non-scientific but it makes sense to me Laughing

free skin care · Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:30 pm

Response to my email from Invitrx:

Diem Vo diem@invitrx.com

Hi XXXX,

Lacey brings up a very apt concern. I would like to reassure her and others which may have the same feelings towards our skin care line. Our anti-aging serum has been on the market for about 10 years now and sold close to 500,000 units. Our product will not stimulate hair growth in undesirable locations and here's why: Our product's growth factors and cytokines present in the stem cell conditioned media stimulates further cell signalling specific to the target area (ie dermal skin cells when applied topically to the skin). Furthermore, hair growth will only occur where active hair follicles exist such as applying the hair product to the scalp. Our products do all have the same underlying active ingredient and they differ slightly with other ingredients to create our various products in our skin care and hair care line.

If you have further questions, please feel free to contact us.

Thank you,
Diem

free skin care · Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:46 pm

Thanks DM,

and thanks for posting his email, that way if others have more questions, they can email him, he seemed nice enough

free skin care · Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:54 pm

Thats good news, I dont need any more hair sprouting Shock

free skin care · Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:53 pm

DarkMoon wrote:

Response to my email from Invitrx:

Diem Vo diem@invitrx.com

Hi XXXX,

Furthermore, hair growth will only occur where active hair follicles exist such as applying the hair product to the scalp.

Thank you,
Diem

Plenty of "active hair follicles" exist on the healthy female face. (Thousands in fact..)

I swear by the hair of my chiny chin chin... Shock

And NO, I don't use ANY of the stem cell derived products... I'm just an old geezer with a stray hair (or 5) Laughing

Do any of you find it at all curious that all of the manufacturers of these type products, tell you "don't worry, the cytokines are programmed to know exactly where to go (or not)".. paraphrasing

*]Off to cook my dinner, before I get accused of stealing anyone's thunder*... Laughing

free skin care · Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:07 pm

LOL

! You have a real point Kassy, I think its one of those things, if one is predisposed (and some woman do have this problem) to grow hair on face, then this could very well "help that along"! I do not have hair, stray or otherwise, well ok, little peach fuzz stuff. None has grown in 8 weeks of use on my face. I do know it is awful to happen, long long long ago I had to take prednisone and wala, massive peach fuzz everywhere Shock

I was most unhappy! But I am not seeing that with this at all, at least not yet.

free skin care · Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:09 am

Since some have been confused on the "older version" of reluma, prior to 2011, I thought I'd post this regarding the version now:

Over the years ReLuma has been improving the technology behind the conditioned media. The current Reluma formulation is based on a blend of Invitrx's three cell technologies: a new stem cell technology ,iPS (Induced Pluripotent Stem Cell). Alongside iPS, they mix Adipose derived stem cell and, thirdly, the Dermal Fibroblast Conditioned Media that was the original formula.

There technology is also patent pending from what I am reading.

free skin care · Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:13 am

Tiny wrote:

Since some have been confused on the "older version" of reluma, prior to 2011, I thought I'd post this regarding the version now:

Over the years ReLuma has been improving the technology behind the conditioned media. The current Reluma formulation is based on a blend of Invitrx's three cell technologies: a new stem cell technology ,iPS (Induced Pluripotent Stem Cell). Alongside iPS, they mix Adipose derived stem cell and, thirdly, the Dermal Fibroblast Conditioned Media that was the original formula.

There technology is also patent pending from what I am reading.

Thanks for posting Tiny,

It makes sense with 19 years of new technology and knowledge they would update with newer and better formulas! Smile

free skin care · Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:35 pm

I find it a bit disturbing that these are now being said to cause breast cancer on another thread when here we have a woman obviously predisposed to breast cancer and they successfully restored her breast using these? These are actual practicing physicians/surgeons. Are we now to think them all clueless? And here the woman is checked every six months after all this time and is cancer free! *shakes Head*

DarkMoon wrote:

Interesting about older stem cells working well, so 2004-2005 and she is 65 now so late 50's when she had this done:

"I am so ensconced in what's cutting edge," she tells PEOPLE. "I get my thrill out of passing on information to women so they can have a better quality of life."

Somers, a stage 1 breast cancer survivor, underwent a procedure that used her own stem cells.

The actress and best-selling author learned about the procedure three years ago when she found Dr. Kotaro Yoshimura, a Japanese surgeon who developed stem-cell breast reconstruction in 2004.

"I invited him over to Los Angeles to see if we could work together," she says. "He examined me. I kept saying, 'Bet you've never seen these big American whoppers before.' "

Somers says the breasts that helped make her famous had deteriorated after doctors found a malignant tumor in her right breast 12 years ago and she had a lumpectomy and radiation treatments.

"I thought they'd take a quarter's worth," she says. "But the whole bottom half of my breast was gone."

Six weeks of radiation "left what breast I had flatter and flatter. I had a Double D on one side and on the other side I could hardly fill a B."

Plastic surgeon Dr. Joel Aronowitz removed fat from Somers's stomach via liposuction. He then harvested stem cells from half of the fat and combined them with the remaining amount of fat.

The mixture was injected back into Somers's right breast until it filled a C cup. Somers then had her left breast reduced from a DD to match.

The 2½-hour process costs between $14,500 and $19,500 and insurance chips in if the surgery is a reconstruction.

"This whole thing is a win-win," says Somers. "You lose fat and get a new breast."

For those battling breast cancer, the procedure could be a ray of light at the end of the tunnel. "A woman can go through the devastating experience and come out whole and looking better," says Somers.

That's certainly how the actress feels. "It's tempting to go without a bra now," she says playfully, "but I won't – for my grandchildren.

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20567432,00.html

free skin care · Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:03 pm

DarkMoon wrote:

I find it a bit disturbing that these are now being said to cause breast cancer on another thread when here we have a woman obviously predisposed to breast cancer and they successfully restored her breast using these? These are actual practicing physicians/surgeons. Are we now to think them all clueless? And here the woman is checked every six months after all this time and is cancer free! *shakes Head*

Who-o-o knows???
someone gave me bottles of the RL (ser./moist./eye) to try (maybe for comparison purposes, I don't know) But I've been petrified to use them and shelved them. Cognitively not ready based on what I've been reading elsewhere.

And at the moment of this posting, I overcame the thought of even putting a dab of each on the back of my hand, just to check/test for texture/consistency but nope--NOT ready.

--ScaredyCat

free skin care · Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:44 am

Kath91 wrote:

DarkMoon wrote:

I find it a bit disturbing that these are now being said to cause breast cancer on another thread when here we have a woman obviously predisposed to breast cancer and they successfully restored her breast using these? These are actual practicing physicians/surgeons. Are we now to think them all clueless? And here the woman is checked every six months after all this time and is cancer free! *shakes Head*

Who-o-o knows???
someone gave me bottles of the RL (ser./moist./eye) to try (maybe for comparison purposes, I don't know) But I've been petrified to use them and shelved them. Cognitively not ready based on what I've been reading elsewhere.

And at the moment of this posting, I overcame the thought of even putting a dab of each on the back of my hand, just to check/test for texture/consistency but nope--NOT ready.

--ScaredyCat

Who not the main selling source!

Discovery Medicine (best be just as afraid of BSC as ASC, or any stem cell derived media or procedure! That is if you are really a "scardy cat":

http://www.discoverymedicine.com/Morikuni-Tobita/2011/02/23/adipose-derived-stem-cells-current-findings-and-future-perspectives/

Benefits of Stem Cell Breast Reconstruction

By Joel A. Aronowitz, MD
Clinical Professor Plastic Surgery
USC Keck School of Medicine
Cedars Sinai Medical Center
University Stem Cell Center

http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/benefits-stem-cell-therapy-breast-reconstruction

Case Report
Adipose-Derived Stem Cells in Crohn's Rectovaginal Fistula

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/crim/2010/961758/

I won't keep going aside from saying the Mayo Clinic, Johns's Hopkins, every major medical research center/hospital are testing and using ASC for a multitude of health issues.

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