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Vitamin D Supplementation and "in built SPF"
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craven20
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Wed May 23, 2012 6:04 pm      Reply with quote
I've been researching different nutrients which can provide additional "in built" sun protection when taken over a 2-3 month period. One of the most well known is Vitamin D and, depending on climate and exposure, many people can be deficient and supplementation is advisable. I live in the UK and I have practised sun avoidance for a long time so I think that Vit D supplementation may be a wise thing for me to do but I was not given any advice on this by my doctor and IU levels can vary wildly. Has anyone had experience of Vit D supplementation and how did it work out? I am hoping that, if I find the right supplement, I will have more in built SPF value and feel a bit better about myself.

The other protection boosting compounds I came across in the research were lycopene (tomatoes) flavonols (raw dark chocolate) and carotenoids. Flavonols were studied and shown to reduce UV erthyema by up to 25%. Finding a legitimate source of these compounds and the right dosage is obviously key to overall balance. Any reason to eat chocolate is good enough for me!
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Wed May 23, 2012 6:53 pm      Reply with quote
I am looking at Healthy Origins Vit D3 5000 IU which is available UK/US. Rave reviews on Amazon UK re stress, depression, colds, and general wellbeing. Has anyone tried this brand/product?

Finding a high flavonol chocolate/cocoa powder is not easy (not for me anyway!) as no manufacturers seem to list flavonol levels. If you google flavonols sun protection/flavonols erythema you will bring up a very interesting study which does give a completely new angle to chocolate and its benefits! I never knew it could reduce the potential for sunburn.

Carotenoids are widely avaiable in many food sources which are low GI but lycopene seems to be mainly concentrated in gac (an obscure asian vegetable) or tomatoes which in sufficiently high quantity would upset the acid alkaline balance. I will research dried tomatoes and peppers which I assume are more ph balanced but then how much higher in gi are they? All will be revealed!
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Wed May 23, 2012 7:00 pm      Reply with quote
google Astaxanthin. I started taking this supplement to hopefully help with melasma and pigmentation concerns, which it did. More notably it helped profoundly with moisturisation. Resistance to the sun is noted by many people using this supplement....I can't comment on this as I never am without my physical sunscreen...certainly I have not noticed any further areas of sun damage since using it.
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Wed May 23, 2012 7:34 pm      Reply with quote
I have fair skin with some freckles (very British Isles) and I've definitely noticed that I don't burn as fast since taking a D3 supplement. I take 4-6000 I.U./day but I started out higher to reverse a deficiency.
Astaxanthin is also supposed to protect against burning and sun damage.

Eating a Paleo/Primal diet really helps, too.
This has been the observation of a lot of people who eat this way. The kind of fats we eat affect the inflammation levels in our skin and how it reacts to UV exposure.
Here's an article about it (read the comments for even more confirmation):
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/8-natural-ways-to-prevent-a-sunburn-and-sunscreens-not-one-of-them/#axzz1viQAJ6Sp

It would be a good idea to get your D level checked and then supplement with D3 accordingly. Here is info about optimal serum levels to aim for:
http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/about-vitamin-d/vitamin-d-deficiency/am-i-vitamin-d-deficient/


However, note that it's also important to get enough Vitamin A (retinol, not beta carotene) in your diet, as D and A occur together in foods like egg yolks, liver, cod liver oil, etc.
Higher doses of D3 increase our Vitamin A toxicity threshold by a large amount, so you don't have to worry about A when you're taking D3 (unless you're taking a ridiculously high amount).

Vitamin K2 is also an important co-factor that you should make sure to get when you take D3. We all need it anyway, as it helps keep the arteries clear by preventing calcium from depositing in them (plaque is made of mostly calcium). K2 is found in grass-fed dairy (Kerrygold Irish butter is a great brand), aged cheese and natto (fermented soybeans).
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Wed May 23, 2012 10:30 pm      Reply with quote
You can do as much harm as good supplementing micro-nutrients individually or in small groups, this is because they work synergistically and in opposition. I had my vitamin D levels checked on the NHS earlier this year, a test I requested. Given I had virtually no sun exposure for several months beforehand and my blood calcium was borderline, surprisingly my vitamin D was normal. Cod liver oil is a cheap source of vitamin D, and it is also included in many multi-vitamins.

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craven20
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Thu May 24, 2012 5:00 am      Reply with quote
Thanks to everyone who replied, some very interesting comments! The Cocoa study on UV erythema really caught my eye but on looking deeper I found out that the level of copper in raw cocoa products can impair other essential nutrients. I got into the whole Raw Cacao fad for a while (I went a bit Miranda Kerr!) but there is a lot of conflicting information on its usage. The UV protective flavonoid compounds are, on closer inspection!, contained within a whole host of fruit, veg, beans, green tea. I made the mistake of thinking that flavonols were a different thing to flavonoids but they are the same thing. I think Firefox is absolutely right, the key is balance and powdered superfoods are so highly concentrated that they simply throw our nutrient balance out of sync.

Very interesting articles Lizzyjane thankyou! I found Mark's apple recently also but I hadn't seen that article! I am eating oily fish every day so should get astaxanthin that way and I also have some coconut oil for saturated fat, o3s via fish, walnuts and flax, resveratrol and proanthocyanidins via berries. I have 400 mcg of Vit D in my multivitamin. Cod liver oil unfortunately has the oleic acid which my poor old skin doesn't like but thanks FF! I am always a sucker for rave reviews and the raves about the D3 I mentioned really did sound pretty darn good! I am flying blind though in relation to dosage levels so regretfully I will have to just hope my 400 mcg is enough!

The lycopene related study used a 15mg dosage of lycopene which I think equates to a medium sized portion of red bell peppers and regular or sun dried tomatoes per day. I love them both!

Could I just ask a little question about multivitamins? I have a complex with vitamins and minerals and I believe that some of this content (certain B vitamins and zinc for example) is great but some other constituents are already present in my diet. Will the body just eliminate what it doesn't need (the strength of this multivitamin is only standard, nothing supercharged!). There was an article in the Daily Mail newspaper yesterday which claimed that multivitamins were causing rather than solving problems due to promoting imbalance. I dont read that particular paper but my Dad does and was on his high horse about it!
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Thu May 24, 2012 11:51 am      Reply with quote
I live in the New York City area. When I first requested a vitamin D test ( BTW Vit D is really a hormone) my levels were patheticaly low-14..
I have supplamented with 1000mg of D, specificaly Nature Made, and my l;evels are now 31.6. I am aiming for 40 Cool
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Thu May 24, 2012 12:12 pm      Reply with quote
There is an interesting thread about sun and Vitamin D, cm gives a great breakdown of some facts and a book recommendation. (it is short!)


Sunscreen and Vitamin D levels

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?tid=44998

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Thu May 24, 2012 2:42 pm      Reply with quote
Regarding D levels and supplementation: the recommended dose for most people is a lot more than 400 IU's now (many people take 1000-2000 IU's once their levels are good).
Make sure it's the D3 (cholcalciferol) form and not the cheaper, less effective D2 (ergocalciferol). Cholcalciferol is the kind our body manufactures and knows best how to use.

You want to get your serum level into the 50-80 range (and even closer to 100 if you're dealing with any kind of inflammatory autoimmune disease).
craven20
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Thu May 24, 2012 3:11 pm      Reply with quote
I think it costs about £50 to get Vit D levels checked and I haven't been out for about 2 months so it's hard for me to get to a doctor (and the ones I have spoken to on the phone showed a complete lack of understanding of my seborrheic dermatitis and how to treat it so I have no faith in them). I haven't really had any sustained sunlight (i.e. without a wide brim hat etc) for about 2 or 3 years and I have avoided the sun for at least 12 months now. I am extremely depressed and irritable and I badly need a lift. I very much want to get better but I will never allow doctors to prescribe me their toxic chemicals which they very near managed to kill my mum with. I will always go the natural route. Problem is that one thing leads to another, vitamin d requires magnesium so thats 2 new supplements which I have no idea how to dose. I have found out that inositol may be very helpful for my anxiety and depression but it is not prescribed so I would be guessing how much to dose. It really makes me angry that doctors refuse to acknowledge the existence of substances that really can help or heal a problem in favour of keeping the big drug companies in business (and keeping people ill).
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Thu May 24, 2012 3:29 pm      Reply with quote
craven20 wrote:
I think it costs about £50 to get Vit D levels checked and I haven't been out for about 2 months so it's hard for me to get to a doctor (and the ones I have spoken to on the phone showed a complete lack of understanding of my seborrheic dermatitis and how to treat it so I have no faith in them). I haven't really had any sustained sunlight (i.e. without a wide brim hat etc) for about 2 or 3 years and I have avoided the sun for at least 12 months now. I am extremely depressed and irritable and I badly need a lift. I very much want to get better but I will never allow doctors to prescribe me their toxic chemicals which they very near managed to kill my mum with. I will always go the natural route. Problem is that one thing leads to another, vitamin d requires magnesium so thats 2 new supplements which I have no idea how to dose. I have found out that inositol may be very helpful for my anxiety and depression but it is not prescribed so I would be guessing how much to dose. It really makes me angry that doctors refuse to acknowledge the existence of substances that really can help or heal a problem in favour of keeping the big drug companies in business (and keeping people ill).


I think you can safely take 1000 IU's, esp. since you haven't been out in the sun in a long time.
As far as magnesium (like D, most of us are quite deficient!), you can take whatever dose gives you comfortably soft (but not loose) stools. I prefer the mag. chloride form, as it's inexpensive and very effective. It can really help anxiety, as it helps regulate the nervous system.

I would also try D before inositol, as your depression might be simply caused by low D (they now know that Seasonal Affective Disorder is mainly from low D levels).

www.iherb.com has very good discounts and ships all over the world.
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Thu May 24, 2012 3:53 pm      Reply with quote
Hi Lj, I have 50mg magnesium in my multivitamin, maybe that would be ok? As for iherb it's a great site but we have a small problem in the UK which is that if the goods are over £15 (around $22) in value then we will be charged at about 40%! I am very keen to use super strength (and regular) oreganol for my seb derm and iherbs prices are great but the only oreganol which wouldn't be punitively taxed is the 13.5ml regular. I would have to pay a dollar equivalent of about $110 in this country for a 30ml super strength oreganol whereas in the US you pay $50! Without the customs charges I could get 30ml regular and super strength from iherb for $94 including postage to england which would be affordable. It's so frustrating being in the UK because we miss out on so many great products. I really would feel like crying if I truly felt that the Oreganol was the cure I have been looking for (and necessary to take on a regular basis) but, due to greedy politicians, I wasn't able to afford it.
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Thu May 24, 2012 4:21 pm      Reply with quote
The reason I started taking a supplement was because of a doctor's advice. I found out I had a vitamin D deficiency so he gave me a high supplement for 4 weeks. After he suggested taking a lower dose every day. I take a supplement that is 400 IU. It has worked wonders, I feel much better (physically and mentally). Also, I was told to drink a glass of milk or orange juice when taking it because the calcium helps your body absorb the vitamin D. Hope this helps!

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Thu May 24, 2012 5:43 pm      Reply with quote
craven20 wrote:
Hi Lj, I have 50mg magnesium in my multivitamin, maybe that would be ok? As for iherb it's a great site but we have a small problem in the UK which is that if the goods are over £15 (around $22) in value then we will be charged at about 40%! I am very keen to use super strength (and regular) oreganol for my seb derm and iherbs prices are great but the only oreganol which wouldn't be punitively taxed is the 13.5ml regular. I would have to pay a dollar equivalent of about $110 in this country for a 30ml super strength oreganol whereas in the US you pay $50! Without the customs charges I could get 30ml regular and super strength from iherb for $94 including postage to england which would be affordable. It's so frustrating being in the UK because we miss out on so many great products. I really would feel like crying if I truly felt that the Oreganol was the cure I have been looking for (and necessary to take on a regular basis) but, due to greedy politicians, I wasn't able to afford it.


That's such a disappointment about the customs charges!
As far as the mag. in your supplement, 50 mg isn't very much, so you'll def. need more. For example, this one is 520 mg/tablet:
http://www.iherb.com/Alta-Health-Magnesium-Chloride-100-Tablets/10682
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Thu May 24, 2012 5:48 pm      Reply with quote
What about an online supplier in the UK? This is just one I found searching.

http://www.healthspan.co.uk/vitamins-minerals/

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craven20
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Thu May 24, 2012 5:59 pm      Reply with quote
thanks dm, it was really the oreganol i was hoping for and i can get it in the uk but for about $60 more than you guys for 30ml! If it was a one off product then i would do it but if im buying it every month or two it becomes rather expensive! i'm hoping some nice person in the US will send me some oreganol if i pay them some money to help me out! I had family in san francisco (napa valley) once but they're no longer there so it's not much help!
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Thu May 24, 2012 6:02 pm      Reply with quote
craven20 wrote:
thanks dm, it was really the oreganol i was hoping for and i can get it in the uk but for about $60 more than you guys for 30ml! If it was a one off product then i would do it but if im buying it every month or two it becomes rather expensive! i'm hoping some nice person in the US will send me some oreganol if i pay them some money to help me out! I had family in san francisco (napa valley) once but they're no longer there so it's not much help!


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Enerex-Oil-Oregano-Extra-Strength/dp/B000NRYTIY ?

http://www.paulboizot.co.uk/oils/oregano.htm

I try?

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Thu May 24, 2012 6:50 pm      Reply with quote
I purchase regularly from overseas, not just skincare, and rarely get charged the duty. IIRC the first ~£9 is actually Royal Mail's handling fee nothing to do with government.

"Customs Duty is charged as a percentage of the total value of the goods - that is the sterling equivalent of the price paid abroad. To work out the percentage, each type of product is given a 'commodity code'. This tells you what the Customs Duty rate percentage is for that particular product, based on whether it's being imported or exported.

There are around 14,000 different classifications. The duty rate percentage for each may vary according to the country the goods come from. The average percentage is between 5 and 9 per cent, but it can be as low as 0 per cent or as high as 85 per cent. To find out the Customs Duty rate for a product you can contact HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) VAT Helpline or the Customs, International Trade & Excise enquiries.
"
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/customs/tax-and-duty.htm#2

I have no idea why there are thousands of classifications but maybe that explains why I rarely have to pay the duty, it's too complex for them to bother!! Wink

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Thu May 24, 2012 8:53 pm      Reply with quote
craven20 wrote:
Cod liver oil unfortunately has the oleic acid which my poor old skin doesn't like but thanks FF!


Is oleic acid bad? Why doesn't your skin like it?
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Thu May 24, 2012 11:56 pm      Reply with quote
VeronicaM wrote:
craven20 wrote:
Cod liver oil unfortunately has the oleic acid which my poor old skin doesn't like but thanks FF!


Is oleic acid bad? Why doesn't your skin like it?


Some claim Oleic acid is bad, and it may not agree with everyone's skin however that is not a one size fits all!


Quote:
What is Oleic Acid?

Oleic acid is a monounsaturated fatty acid with a lipid number of C18:1. That means that there is only one double bond and therefore it lasts longer than other acids such as Gamma-linoleic acid or Linolenic acid which both have three double bonds (C18:3). Oleic acid is an Omega-9 fatty acid along with erucic acid and mead acid to name a few. Omega-9 fatty acids are not considered essential fatty acids like Omega-3 and Omega-6 fatty acids are. This is because the human body can produce omega-9 fatty acids and in fact oleic acid is found in our sebum. Sebum is the waxy, oily substance produced by our sebaceous glands. Oleic acid is helpful to the cardiovascular system and can help to lower cholesterol.

The article continues here: http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-oleic-acid.htm

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craven20
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Fri May 25, 2012 11:05 am      Reply with quote
Hi DarkMoon, Veronica, the reading I have done suggests oleic aicd feeds the yeast which causes the skin condition seborrheic dermatitis. I aim for low oleic in my products such as Ghanaian Shea Butter, Borage Oil, Coconut Oil.

I received a 13.5ml regular Oreganol today! I paid over the odds but I really wanted to get started. Long term my plan is to order in from the US (would actually save me about $80 equivalent per 2x 30ml bottles of regular and super strength!). I haven't had a chance to look at dosing yet but I noted Bethanys advice not to take near my probiotic. Thanks Bethany!

Having read a bit about inositol it sounds like it could be appropriate for me (thanks Egyptian Goddess!). I have no idea about dosages but there seem to be many success stories. Vitamin D and astaxanthin also sound like brilliant supplements. Dietary sources for astaxanthin are pretty sparse (pink flamingo isn't a staple for me!).

I may have to cross my fingers, order everything from iherb and hope nobody notices at customs! I don't know whether it would make a difference to split the order up a bit, say two $70 orders rather than one big $140 order. I wish I had a friend in customs!
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Sat May 26, 2012 8:26 pm      Reply with quote
We live in Southern California, with plenty of year round sun. But I was concerned for my son, a software engineer who spends the days indoors. He tested at 23! The doctor wanted to treat this by advising him to drink a glass of milk a day! You just can't rely on doctors to know. We do take Now 5000 iu D3 and I also take 8 mg of astaxanthin a day.

I also go out in the sun daily for 10 to 20 minutes. I've read that natural sunlight has benefits that supplements can't offer.
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Sat May 26, 2012 8:57 pm      Reply with quote
I tested at 11 (yikes!) for D and now take 5k to 10kiu's a day at my doc's recommendation. I still burn like crazy, but am very fair skinned.

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Mon May 28, 2012 2:08 pm      Reply with quote
Hi everyone and I would really like to say a big thank you to everyone who replied to this thread, so much good information! I found the Weston Price website which had good info about Vitamin D and its' correlation with Vitamins A and K. I decided to buy a high vitamin cod liver oil supplement (my fears over oleic acid were unfounded, CLO is recommended for SD patients as a treatment) and to start eating raw butter and other raw dairy for Vitamin K and enzymes. I have purchased the NOW 1000mg Vitamin D3 so that I can progressively increase my dose alongside the food source D3 I will be getting from the CLO and my multi.

I have also purchased some NOW astaxanthin 4mg which on further reading I found out is linked to improvements in SD and rosacea. I will also be using Now's Biotin and Inositol (I should just become a Now Rep, I'd get a discount!).

Thanks for your advice LJ, I have purchased some magnesium chloride (you can guess the brand!).

Thanks Dark Moon for your oregano investigations on my behalf! I had my heart set on the Oreganol P73 because of the good reviews here by Bethany and on Iherb. I couldn't find many if any reviews for the UK suppliers so I thought Oreganol was the one to go for. I paid £24 for a 13.5 ml bottle, got it on Friday. If results are good I will go to Iherb and get it shipped over (I think I will be okay with this method Bethany, sorry if I was a little desperate!).
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Mon May 28, 2012 2:49 pm      Reply with quote
craven20 wrote:
(I think I will be okay with this method Bethany, sorry if I was a little desperate!).


No problem!

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