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Sat May 26, 2012 6:51 am  |
How often do you apply it to your face?
Do you use it twice a day or just once a day?
And what made you select the toner that you currently use? |
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Sat May 26, 2012 7:20 am |
| I apply toner each time I wash my face, which is twice a day, right after using my cleanser. If I apply a mask or peel, I also use a toner right after. The toner removes any residue or excess product left from your cleanser or mask/peel and tightens your pores. I use and really like Decléor's Matifying Lotion which suits my combination skin. It helps control the sebum on my nose and forehead. |
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Sat May 26, 2012 8:30 am |
| I use twice a day after cleansing I use simple toner as its alcohol free and good for sensitive skin I was looking at witch hazel but couldn't find alcohol free one. |
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Sat May 26, 2012 9:05 am |
| VeronicaM wrote: |
How often do you apply it to your face?
Do you use it twice a day or just once a day?
And what made you select the toner that you currently use? |
I apply mine twice a day as along as my skin isn't irritated or sensitive that day. Like if got sunburned i wouldn't go acid happy as my toner is acid based (glycolic). I use it after cleansing, morning and night.
For me I noticed my skin responds well to AHA type products, so that would be my reason to use this type of toner. I find that they help exfoliate and keep my pores clear of blackheads quite well. |
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Sat May 26, 2012 9:13 am |
ketcup,
Do AHA toners make your pores appear smaller? |
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Sat May 26, 2012 9:34 pm |
| I use colloidal silver, it comes in a litre bottle from the health food shop. It's cheap and fantastic! I have acne prone skin and like the antibacterial properties of it. I use it day and night. You can also use it to set powdered makeups. |
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Sat May 26, 2012 9:37 pm |
| I use colloidal silver, it comes in a litre bottle from the health food shop. It's cheap and fantastic! I have acne prone skin and like the antibacterial properties of it. I use it day and night. You can also use it to set powdered makeups. |
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Sat May 26, 2012 10:43 pm |
| miss mei wrote: |
| I use colloidal silver, it comes in a litre bottle from the health food shop. It's cheap and fantastic! I have acne prone skin and like the antibacterial properties of it. I use it day and night. You can also use it to set powdered makeups. |
I read about a man who ingested colloidal silver, and his skin permanantly turned blue. |
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Sun May 27, 2012 3:59 am |
| miss mei wrote: |
| I use colloidal silver, it comes in a litre bottle from the health food shop. It's cheap and fantastic! I have acne prone skin and like the antibacterial properties of it. I use it day and night. You can also use it to set powdered makeups. |
Wow.  This is NOT safe to do. I would NEVER do this. VeronicaM, the condition you refer to is called "Argyria". Here is an article regarding the development of Argyria due to topical application of a silver containing cream: http://dermatology-s10.cdlib.org/144/ped_derm/arygyria/browning.html
And another article on quackwatch: http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/PhonyAds/silverad.html
miss mei you should really consider seeing your Doctor and telling them that you've been using colloidal silver as a facial toner. |
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Mon May 28, 2012 2:51 am |
I also use colloidal silver when I have it, and its fine to use as a toner. When its used to turn the skin blue, its taken most times orally and even then it requires vast amounts to be taken. Over here in the UK, many times in the Victorian period people drank it frequently believing they would have health benefits.
Helen Sher who looks fantastic for her age and is in her late 70s recommends her own brand of collodial silver as a toner in her system, so there are some out there who don't follow your thinking you know.
Having used it on and off for the last 6 years, and never having had my skin turn blue, I'd say its definitely been a fantastic toner. This thread has reminded me to get some more and mix it with my rosewater toner (which I love the smell of!).
Thanx
| VeronicaM wrote: |
| miss mei wrote: |
| I use colloidal silver, it comes in a litre bottle from the health food shop. It's cheap and fantastic! I have acne prone skin and like the antibacterial properties of it. I use it day and night. You can also use it to set powdered makeups. |
I read about a man who ingested colloidal silver, and his skin permanantly turned blue. |
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Mon May 28, 2012 5:26 am |
| TheresaMary wrote: |
I also use colloidal silver when I have it, and its fine to use as a toner. When its used to turn the skin blue, its taken most times orally and even then it requires vast amounts to be taken. Over here in the UK, many times in the Victorian period people drank it frequently believing they would have health benefits.
Helen Sher who looks fantastic for her age and is in her late 70s recommends her own brand of collodial silver as a toner in her system, so there are some out there who don't follow your thinking you know.
Having used it on and off for the last 6 years, and never having had my skin turn blue, I'd say its definitely been a fantastic toner. This thread has reminded me to get some more and mix it with my rosewater toner (which I love the smell of!).
Thanx
| VeronicaM wrote: |
| miss mei wrote: |
| I use colloidal silver, it comes in a litre bottle from the health food shop. It's cheap and fantastic! I have acne prone skin and like the antibacterial properties of it. I use it day and night. You can also use it to set powdered makeups. |
I read about a man who ingested colloidal silver, and his skin permanantly turned blue. |
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Right. This isn't a way of thinking, it's a fact. And you can't argue with fact. Just because your skin hasn't turned blue, does not mean that someone somewhere will not develop this side effect if they read this thread or your post and start using colloidal silver as a toner. (Argyria is a debilitating life altering skin condition!) Yes it has antibacterial properties, but the risk FAR outweighs the benefit of using silver, and there are many MANY alternatives to topicals that have antibacterial properties that run NO risk of turning your skin blue. (How about Salicylic acid for one??) And yes TheresaMary, using silver topically CAN turn skin gray-blue.
Here is what Paula Begoun says about silver:
Metallic element that in cosmetics can have disinfecting properties; however, prolonged contact can turn skin grayish blue. Silver can be irritating to skin, and can cause silver toxicity (Sources: Annals of Dermatology and Venereology, February 2002, pages 217–219; and Critical Reviews in Toxicology, May 1996, pages 255–260).
link: http://www.cosmeticscop.com/cosmetic-ingredient-dictionary/definition/1351/silver.aspx
And here is what Paula Begoun says about the cream "Silver Sulfadiazine" used for 2nd and 3rd degree burns (which I gave a link to something about in my first post):
Can be effective for wound healing (Source: Journal of Vascular Surgery, August 1992, pages 251–257). However, it is safe for skin only for short-term use because silver can penetrate abraded skin and cause silver toxicity (Source: Clinical Chemistry, February 1997, pages 290–301).
link: http://www.cosmeticscop.com/cosmetic-ingredient-dictionary/definition/1353/silver-sulfadiazine.aspx
If someone with acne uses colloidal silver as a toner, and some of their acne is considered to be an open wound, they very much run the risk of silver toxicity.
Many people read this board. I repeat, this is not safe to do. If you are looking for a topical antibacterial toner, there are many others that do not run the risk of Argyria.
Here are some more links to Argyria.
http://whatstheharm.net/colloidalsilver.html
Read Rosemary Jacobs page:
http://rosemaryjacobs.com/
Type Argyria into Pubmed if you want to read more. |
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Mon May 28, 2012 10:30 am |
How is it a fact if it hasn't happened to me? Sounds more like myth. Having used it for a few years now, I would think if it definitely turned skin blue, then it would have happened to me right? Why not? so much for facts? A fact is something thats undeniable true for everyone, and this isn't so. You have my post here saying so, and someone else who has done so, yet we both seem to be saying that our skin hasn't turned blue, so I'm not sure how you can be so sure that this is a FACT?
Like I said Helen Sher uses collodial silver in her skincare system which she sells and has been proven to help many people with serious skin conditions. Just google her name and look at her site!
As to what Paula Begoun says about silver, she's known for making very bad conclusions on several things. Just look at her posts on facial exercises and dermarolling. Also for someone who makes a point of writing about ingredients in other peoples products, and then neglects to put her ingredients in her packaging on her own products I'd say thats not such a good character reference to prove a point.
Now ther is a vast difference between collodial silver and ordinary silver. Her statement is about pure silver, not collodial silver which is different.
I think there is a big difference in noting the studies that you post refer to "silver" and not collodial silver beause they are different vastly. As I say Im aware of some case back in the victorian era where people did turn blue from drinking collodial silver but as previously mentioned this was an excessive amount and in no way can you compare someone drinking large quantities of collodial silver to someone using a small bit on a cotton pad as a toner. |
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Mon May 28, 2012 10:53 am |
You can view abstracts on the dangers even provided on "natural" sites, you have to access the link to view the actual abstract:
Brief Background:
Colloidal silver is a suspension of submicroscopic metallic silver particles in a colloidal base. Long-term use of silver preparations can lead to argyria, a permanent condition in which silver salts deposit in the skin, eyes and internal organs. The skin can often appear ashen-gray due to the deposition of the silver salts. Argyria has been mistaken for cyanotic heart disease (1).
Today colloidal silver is not generally recognized as safe or effective. However, some researchers believe that it has antibacterial properties, which may warrant further studies. Despite the lack of high-quality scientific evidence, colloidal silver is most commonly used as a natural antibiotic or healing agent. It is either used topically or ingested as a drink to promote healing or to combat disease.
The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has taken action against several colloidal drug companies, including web site advertisers, for making unsubstantiated claims for their product. Colloidal silver products are usually marketed as dietary supplements. Therefore, the manufacturers do not need to go through the same rigorous approval processes as drug companies.
http://www.naturalstandard.com/index-abstract.asp?create-abstract=colloidalsilver.asp&title=Colloidal%20silver
Another:
http://www.wellnesstimes.com/health-resources/articles/electro-colloidal-silver |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon May 28, 2012 11:50 am |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| Today colloidal silver is not generally recognized as safe or effective. However, some researchers believe that it has antibacterial properties, which may warrant further studies. Despite the lack of high-quality scientific evidence, colloidal silver is most commonly used as a natural antibiotic or healing agent. |
There is this study for topical use:
Colloidal silver as an antimicrobial agent: fact or fiction?
OBJECTIVE: Colloidal silver preparations are marketed on the internet as omnipotent antimicrobial agents, but scientific support for these claims is lacking. This study reports the results of in vitro tests of colloidal silver's antimicrobial activity against several pathogenic or non-pathogenic microorganisms.
METHOD: Three samples of colloidal silver were tested: one available commercially on the internet (silver concentration of 22 ppm) and two samples (concentrations of 403 and 413 ppm) which were prepared in our laboratory using standard chemical methods.
RESULTS: In an agar-well diffusion assay none of the three colloidal silver solutions had any effect on the growth of the test organisms. All tested bacterial strains were sensitive to ciprofloxacin. Colloidal silver 22 ppm showed no bactericidal activity in phenol coefficient tests.
CONCLUSION: As the tested colloidal silver solutions did not show any antimicrobial effect in vitro on the microorganisms, claims of colloidal silver's antimicrobial potency are misleading and there is no place for it as an antiseptic.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15114827
No benefits, and possible permanent risk; why bother? |
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Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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Mon May 28, 2012 12:13 pm |
That is a partial quote from the site I linked to, what I posted was:
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| You can view abstracts on the dangers even provided on "natural" sites, you have to access the link to view the actual abstract: |
I think it is not safe to use and there are many safe alternatives!
| Lacy53 wrote: |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| Today colloidal silver is not generally recognized as safe or effective. However, some researchers believe that it has antibacterial properties, which may warrant further studies. Despite the lack of high-quality scientific evidence, colloidal silver is most commonly used as a natural antibiotic or healing agent. |
There is this study for topical use:
Colloidal silver as an antimicrobial agent: fact or fiction?
OBJECTIVE: Colloidal silver preparations are marketed on the internet as omnipotent antimicrobial agents, but scientific support for these claims is lacking. This study reports the results of in vitro tests of colloidal silver's antimicrobial activity against several pathogenic or non-pathogenic microorganisms.
METHOD: Three samples of colloidal silver were tested: one available commercially on the internet (silver concentration of 22 ppm) and two samples (concentrations of 403 and 413 ppm) which were prepared in our laboratory using standard chemical methods.
RESULTS: In an agar-well diffusion assay none of the three colloidal silver solutions had any effect on the growth of the test organisms. All tested bacterial strains were sensitive to ciprofloxacin. Colloidal silver 22 ppm showed no bactericidal activity in phenol coefficient tests.
CONCLUSION: As the tested colloidal silver solutions did not show any antimicrobial effect in vitro on the microorganisms, claims of colloidal silver's antimicrobial potency are misleading and there is no place for it as an antiseptic.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15114827
No benefits, and possible permanent risk; why bother? |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Tue May 29, 2012 3:51 am |
| VeronicaM wrote: |
ketcup,
Do AHA toners make your pores appear smaller? |
I found it did a bit, but the AHA toner I was using is too strong for me to use often,so just 3 or 4 times a week.
It is Neostrata toning solution.
I also have Body shop tea tree oil toner and that is good for hot weather as it has powder in it that makes skin matte. |
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Tue May 29, 2012 6:59 am |
Sorry but then why would Helen Sher have it in her system if there is such a risk of it? Considering how many people have benefited from her system with serious skin problems, I find it hard to imagine that something which has potential permanent risk would be used.
As for no benefits, I like to have more information that there is completely no benefits. One study is insufficient for my liking especially with such little detail. There are many forms of collodial silver out there - and I'm sure its very much like facial exercise in that one size doesn't fit all.
| Lacy53 wrote: |
| No benefits, and possible permanent risk; why bother? |
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Tue May 29, 2012 7:02 am |
If it wasn't safe to use and turns skin blue, then I would surely be looking like a smurf by now. To scare people off using or trying something out that may benefit them is silly. Sure no scientific evidence saying it can cure everything - but then what does have that nowadays. Even Retin A which I continue to use, if when I was first prescribed it I said no have to wait for proper scientific evidence I'd have been waiting for some 20 years, and thankfully I didn't and have 40 years of it under my belt now. Seriosly, I think some of this is being used to scare people off. The original poster said they were using it and EG jumped on her.
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| I think it is not safe to use and there are many safe alternatives! |
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Tue May 29, 2012 7:46 am |
| TheresaMary wrote: |
If it wasn't safe to use and turns skin blue, then I would surely be looking like a smurf by now. To scare people off using or trying something out that may benefit them is silly. Sure no scientific evidence saying it can cure everything - but then what does have that nowadays. Even Retin A which I continue to use, if when I was first prescribed it I said no have to wait for proper scientific evidence I'd have been waiting for some 20 years, and thankfully I didn't and have 40 years of it under my belt now. Seriosly, I think some of this is being used to scare people off. The original poster said they were using it and EG jumped on her.
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| I think it is not safe to use and there are many safe alternatives! |
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That is my opinion after reading the risks.
TM,
I saw a woman a while back on TV she was 119 years old, smoked since her teens and was fit as a fiddle so 90 years of smoking?
Just because a few escape the known dangers does not mean we should advise smoking, does it?
You ask why and I do not have an answer, maybe you are one of the lucky ones?
I think people reading this should be presented with the potential risks before they run out and use this without knowing there are dangers! |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Tue May 29, 2012 2:37 pm |
| I have some toner but rarely use it. |
_________________
Esthetician working at a Med-spa. Love the Clarisonic! |
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Tue May 29, 2012 2:38 pm |
| I should say, I work in a spa and use toner on all my clients. But when it comes to my skin, I don't bother! |
_________________
Esthetician working at a Med-spa. Love the Clarisonic! |
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lornawalters
New Member
 
Joined: 30 May 2012
Posts: 1
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Wed May 30, 2012 1:15 am |
| I use it everyday, before sleeping at night, it makes my face glow on the next morning. |
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Lorna Walter a natural health fan |
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Wed May 30, 2012 3:39 am |
| TheresaMary wrote: |
If it wasn't safe to use and turns skin blue, then I would surely be looking like a smurf by now. To scare people off using or trying something out that may benefit them is silly. Sure no scientific evidence saying it can cure everything - but then what does have that nowadays. Even Retin A which I continue to use, if when I was first prescribed it I said no have to wait for proper scientific evidence I'd have been waiting for some 20 years, and thankfully I didn't and have 40 years of it under my belt now. Seriosly, I think some of this is being used to scare people off. The original poster said they were using it and EG jumped on her.
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| I think it is not safe to use and there are many safe alternatives! |
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What are you talking about the original poster said they were using it? No they didn't. Missmei said she was using it. Not the original poster. The original poster was VeronicaM and she stated nothing about colloidal silver.
I jumped on missmei? Right.  No, I didn't "jump" on anyone. I stated the facts about colloidal silver and that I would never use it. That's it. And we're not talking about colloidal silver being a cure-all. We're talking about it being used topically and the associated risks.
Honestly TheresaMary, your posts aren't even coherent. And your opinion is based on a 70 year old woman who sells it in her line of products (and the fact that you've been using it for 6 years and haven't turned blue). Right. We know how reliable that is regarding safety info. Intelligent EDSers (and intelligent people in general) do not rely on what they are told (especially by someone selling the product). They do the research themselves. Quite clearly you HAVEN'T searched "colloidal silver Argyria" on pubmed (and looked at the corresponding dates) or looked at any of the links I gave if you *still* believe Argyria is something that only happened in the "victorian age".
Here's the link to pubmed if anyone is interested: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Argyria%20colloidal%20silver
Many people are developing Argyria due to proponents of colloidal silver saying it is safe. Yes mostly by ingestion, but the risk with topical colloidal silver is there, especially if anyone has an open wound (think popped zit or cut from shaving perhaps), let alone the fact that it most certainly would seep into the eyes if it went near them. Just because you believe it has been safe for you, does not mean it is or will be safe for everyone else.
You think some of this is being used to scare people off? For what logical reason would that be?! I have better things to do than to try to "scare people off" of something. No TheresaMary, my main interest and goal is, always has been, and always will be this: not ever letting other people possibly be hurt by misinformation and always making sure others are well informed of potential risks.
And as for Paula Begoun? Those weren't her opinions, there were citations, you did see that right? As for her not always being right, who is?! But there's one thing Paula Begoun is always good for: not ever giving out information that could potentially harm others.
I repeat what I originally said, this is not safe to do. There are alternatives to topical antibacterials and the risk outweighs the benefit. Just because something is "natural" does not mean that it is safe. It's always better to be safe than sorry, and it's better to be too cautious than to not be cautious enough and end up with an irreversible skin condition.
I honestly wish you all the best TheresaMary, but I'm sorry, I am not interested in a nonsensical discussion about colloidal silver. I stated the facts and risks regarding colloidal silver and Argyria and that's the end of it for me. Moving on. Back to the original poster VeronicaM's original topic about: Toners. |
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Wed May 30, 2012 4:05 am |
I was talking about the original poster who I was responding to on Colloidal Silver, not the original poster of this thread.
You have stated the facts, oh yer right I forget. The facts that it turns the skin blue – and when I said I’ve used it for at least 6 years and it hasn’t. No one is saing CS is a cure all, what some people are sharing is that they have used it as a toner without effect, despite the so called side effects that are possible.
You are also making personal attacks which are nasty. How can you say my posts aren’t coherent? Its beyond me. Helen Sher sells it in her line for sure, and she has HELPED many people including close personal friends of mine which is how I know of her and her system, and its worked for them, so its worth sharing in my opinion.
Actually I told you I knew of CS causing the skin to turn blue, and actually it was one of my worries when I was originally recommended it and I did my research. However as I said to you previously the only thing I could find at the time was mentions of when it was drank excessively in the Victorian times.
Also I’m not by any means saying it is safe for everyone. From what I remember there are warnings on the product that it shouldn’t be taken by pregnant women for example, or those with certain conditions. What I am showing is that I’ve used it, without any side effects whatsoever. Likewise Meimei is saying she used it too with no side effects. When she first mentioned it you jumped on her and told her not to use it – go figure even for someone who is not coherent can see that (and so can educated people on EDS).
I think you should just stay clear of me EG. I don’t think your posts are helpful or informative, and your nasty attacks are not warranted. |
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Wed May 30, 2012 4:06 am |
Laura what toner do you use or recommend for your clients? Why do you not use it yourself but use it on clients? Whats the reasoning behind that?
| LauraLizzie wrote: |
| I have some toner but rarely use it. |
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