What is your view on manual/physical exfoliation?
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free skin care · Wed May 30, 2012 8:34 am

What is your personal view regarding manual/physical exfoliation? (Either with a scrub, cloth, clairsonic etc.) Do you think it's necessary for skin health and anti-aging? Do you think it stimulates collagen or anything like that? There's varying opinions on this so I'm just wondering what you all think. Some say it's necessary to exfoliate once or twice (or more) a week to prevent/fight aging and some disagree or say you only need chemical exfoliants. I find it confusing.

free skin care · Wed May 30, 2012 1:27 pm

IMO it is beneficial to exfoliate conservatively because it increases cell turnover which slows with age. However it is VERY easy to over-exfoliate or over-cleanse, damaging the skin barrier whch allows water to escape and/ or bacteria to enter. Sometimes the signs you have done this are very subtle and are missed. What many people don't realise is that fully hydrated skin exfoliates naturally better than skin that is even slightly dehydrated. No I do not think it is necessary for skin health, we don't end up with diagnosable dermatological conditions from not exfoliating.

Many manual exfoliation methods are overly harsh and can scratch the skin - but there are exceptions, such as using a microfibre or muslin cloth judiciously. Many people have products that exfoliate in their routine without classing them as such - L-ascorbic acid or Retin-A - so may not need additional exfoliation.

free skin care · Wed May 30, 2012 1:45 pm

Do you prefer chemical exfoliation (ie--glycolic or salicylic acid) to physical exfoliation?

free skin care · Wed May 30, 2012 2:01 pm

egyptiangoddess wrote:

What is your personal view regarding manual/physical exfoliation? (Either with a scrub, cloth, clairsonic etc.) Do you think it's necessary for skin health and anti-aging? Do you think it stimulates collagen or anything like that? There's varying opinions on this so I'm just wondering what you all think. Some say it's necessary to exfoliate once or twice (or more) a week to prevent/fight aging and some disagree or say you only need chemical exfoliants. I find it confusing.

Granted my skin is super tough but I use both and do so weekly! (at least) Laughing

I only use a deep Glycolic peel once in a blue moon, but I am using the PMD, Skinn sonic cleanser and various peeling masks!

I find for me personally I love how my skin looks and products sink in!

I do use LAA serum and RA. Smile

free skin care · Wed May 30, 2012 3:38 pm

VeronicaM wrote:

Do you prefer chemical exfoliation (ie--glycolic or salicylic acid) to physical exfoliation?

Was that aimed at me? I do a little of both - a muslin cloth and light lactic acid peels (not together!). Salicylic acid can be VERY drying so, for many people, is not the best thing to rely on for daily exfoliation. But it can give unrivalled results when used for an occasional peel/ deep pore cleanse or in combination with a hydrating AHA. Something it took me years to appreciate is that even slightly dehydrated skin 'shrinks' making pores look larger and more clogged. Sad

free skin care · Wed May 30, 2012 4:00 pm

I've been chemically and manually exfoliating for many years. Well about 2 weeks ago I went to Holt Renfrew to check out the Cream de la Mer products and the Customer Rep REALLY examined my face. She took off all my makeup to reveal the nose & chin redness. She said I was over exfoliating....which was true. I was using BHA and alternating my AHA every other day. She immediately said to get off both beginning that evening for the next month. Its been two weeks without using and my skin's redness has halfway subsided. I can't wait to see what another 2 weeks to a month more will do without exfoliating.

Wed May 30, 2012 4:07 pm

hi I'm new here and am so confused now....

...i was planning on buying a home microdermabrasion system (for my husband too!! he has whiteheads and black one yuk..lol) when i finally decided on what system to get it added a glycolic peel and a toner to my cart..can i use them both together on him?? my concerns are fine lines are showing, puffy eyes..a few little whiteheads.. when I had professional microdermabrasions they said those will go in time after 6-7 treatment and see dr to see exactly what they are..there tiny bumps..

free skin care · Wed May 30, 2012 5:23 pm

All your husband needs to use is a BHA (Beta Hydroxy Acid) to clean out his pores. Its very good for anyone who is prone to breakouts, white heads, blackheads. Glycolics are good for dryer skins. If you want some very good information go to cosmetics cop website.

free skin care · Wed May 30, 2012 5:31 pm

chely wrote:

hi I'm new here and am so confused now....

...i was planning on buying a home microdermabrasion system (for my husband too!! he has whiteheads and black one yuk..lol) when i finally decided on what system to get it added a glycolic peel and a toner to my cart..can i use them both together on him?? my concerns are fine lines are showing, puffy eyes..a few little whiteheads.. when I had professional microdermabrasions they said those will go in time after 6-7 treatment and see dr to see exactly what they are..there tiny bumps..

You might like this thread, some of us are just loving this little inexpensive microdermabrasion machine!

PMD:

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=45435&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=pmd&start=0

Wed May 30, 2012 7:19 pm

SusieQ wrote:

All your husband needs to use is a BHA (Beta Hydroxy Acid) to clean out his pores. Its very good for anyone who is prone to breakouts, white heads, blackheads. Glycolics are good for dryer skins. If you want some very good information go to cosmetics cop website.

Thank You I will def check site out...hope i am doing this right!

free skin care · Thu May 31, 2012 3:34 am

Thank you everyone. And thank you Firefox, that was really helpful. Smile

What do you think about exfoliation in terms of anti-aging? You said it's not necessary for skin health, but do you think it's necessary to physically exfoliate for anti-aging? I'd love to hear more of your take on this. I mean, how often should we exfoliate to prevent aging as much as possible? I always hear to use a scrub etc. 1-2 times a week, but then there's chemical exfoliation as well, so it's all quite confusing. Confused

free skin care · Thu May 31, 2012 6:12 am

The only physical exfoliating I like is the Clarisonic. I prefer chemical exfoliation.

free skin care · Thu May 31, 2012 6:26 am

I don't peel even from high percentage glycolic peels I have done so manual works best on my skin.

it is YMMV! Smile

free skin care · Thu May 31, 2012 11:08 am

LauraLizzie,

Which acid do you use for exfoliation?

free skin care · Thu May 31, 2012 11:47 am

What %/pH were your AHA/BHA? Because I use AHA daily, sometimes AM and PM, as the instructions on the bottle say, and I do not notice any redness, but then again, I may be over exfoliating without knowing... Which is scary!
Mine is 10% AHA, pH 4.

Thank you!

SusieQ wrote:

I've been chemically and manually exfoliating for many years. Well about 2 weeks ago I went to Holt Renfrew to check out the Cream de la Mer products and the Customer Rep REALLY examined my face. She took off all my makeup to reveal the nose & chin redness. She said I was over exfoliating....which was true. I was using BHA and alternating my AHA every other day. She immediately said to get off both beginning that evening for the next month. Its been two weeks without using and my skin's redness has halfway subsided. I can't wait to see what another 2 weeks to a month more will do without exfoliating.

free skin care · Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:50 am

My skin gets oilier on summer - normal I suppose. I find manual exfoliation to be an absolute must to keep my pores and skin clear during the hotter months. I often do it morning and night.
I only use one method of exfoliation in winter - either with my Clarisonic or with vitamin A cream. Otherwise it is too drying and I end up with acne because the skin is too dry, making it overproduce oil result as deep cystic acne. I learned my lesson the hard way!

free skin care · Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:13 am

I don't much like manual exfoliation on my face, but I'm currently using an MD Forte level 3 product daily (supposedly 30% glycolic) so that should be quite sufficient ....

For body, I use scrub gloves every day in the shower, have done for years, and at the moment a 20% glycolic lotion every second day, alternating with Priori Coffeebery body lotion. Am quite liking this combo so far, although it's early days with the Priori.

free skin care · Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:13 am

What does everyone think about continuing to regularly manually exfoliate whilst using Retinol? (Especially if you have sensitive skin?)

free skin care · Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:14 am

egyptiangoddess wrote:

What does everyone think about continuing to regularly manually exfoliate whilst using Retinol? (Especially if you have sensitive skin?)

Honestly this is a case of do as I say not as I do (my skin is far from sensitive).

I think you have to be very gentle with both product choice and how aggressive you are when exfoliating sensitive skin and using RA! Smile

free skin care · Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:19 am

I'm not a fan of manual exfoliation. Flashback to using St Ives scrub a few years ago. I find that most scrubs are pretty abrasive, and it's easy to think that you're supposed to scrub as hard as you can to exfoliate better. I had a Clarisonic too but I wasn't a fan.

Now I guess I still do manual exfoliation to some degree, because I cleanse my face with a towel post-OCM almost every night. And I do a 30% lactic acid peel about once a month.

free skin care · Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:19 am

fitgineer wrote:

What %/pH were your AHA/BHA? Because I use AHA daily, sometimes AM and PM, as the instructions on the bottle say, and I do not notice any redness, but then again, I may be over exfoliating without knowing... Which is scary!
Mine is 10% AHA, pH 4.

Thank you!

SusieQ wrote:

I've been chemically and manually exfoliating for many years. Well about 2 weeks ago I went to Holt Renfrew to check out the Cream de la Mer products and the Customer Rep REALLY examined my face. She took off all my makeup to reveal the nose & chin redness. She said I was over exfoliating....which was true. I was using BHA and alternating my AHA every other day. She immediately said to get off both beginning that evening for the next month. Its been two weeks without using and my skin's redness has halfway subsided. I can't wait to see what another 2 weeks to a month more will do without exfoliating.

Don't know what the PH level is Fit. I do know that the BHA and AHA is formulated properly for it to work.......and they do!

free skin care · Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:27 am

egyptiangoddess wrote:

Thank you everyone. And thank you Firefox, that was really helpful. Smile

What do you think about exfoliation in terms of anti-aging? You said it's not necessary for skin health, but do you think it's necessary to physically exfoliate for anti-aging? I'd love to hear more of your take on this. I mean, how often should we exfoliate to prevent aging as much as possible? I always hear to use a scrub etc. 1-2 times a week, but then there's chemical exfoliation as well, so it's all quite confusing. Confused

No IMO it is not necessary to physically exfoliate for anti-ageing. It is certainly beneficial to increase skin turnover but there are numerous ways to achieve that. Many people here are using actives that exfoliate or increase skin turnover (eg Retin-A, L-AA). The concept of scrubbing twice a week probably comes from the skincare industry or aestheticians - people who don't always have your best interests at heart nor always adhere to the science. Wink

I really don't think you can generalise about exfoliants - a minority do well using AHAs, Retin-A, L-AA and a Clarisonic daily, other more sensitive types find their face freaks with just one of those never mind all four! And skin changes with age, stress levels, nutrition and so on. I wish everyone started with a super gentle, hydrating routine so they had a baseline of how their skin looks when fully moisturised, then added in harsher actives or exfoliation in baby steps.

Because I have sensitive skin and am on a budget I try to ensure all my products/ actives work double duty. I found this very interesting (whole site is great TBH)
"Some studies have shown that cell renewal is not maintained uniformly during long-term treatments with 3% lactic acid at pH 3. Cell renewal gradually falls off during the first 10 weeks of treatment with 3% glycolic or lactic acid at pH 3, decreasing to 29.3% and 28.3%, respectively. When applied regularly, lactic and glycolic acids (at 3%, pH 3) lose a significant percentage of their capacity to destroy corneocytes and renew the epidermis around the 12th week. Salicylic acid (a beta-hydroxy acid), on the other hand, retains its ability to destroy corneocytes much longer ... As early as 1974, it had been shown that lactic acid improved skin hydration and suppleness and that a pH of 3 was more effective than a pH of 5. Lactic acid is also a better hydrator than urea or glycerol. Some studies tend to show that 3 weeks of daily application of 12% lactic acid would allow as much collagen to be deposited in the papillary dermis as applying 25% trichloroacetic acid (TCA) or phenol.

AHAs were first used to treat dry skin (hyperkeratinization and xerosis) before the positive effects on photoaging skin came to light ... AHAs can only provide superficial treatments, whose direct action is limited to the epidermis. Lactic acid stimulates ceramide biosynthesis leading to higher SC ceramide levels that result in a superior lipid barrier and more effective resistance against dry skin problems. Long term repetition of AHA peels shows a gradual improvement in the quality and tone of the skin, which becomes softer and more even in tone, as well as partial correction of the appearance of fine lines." http://stores.skinessentialactives.com/-strse-115/Lactic-acid-88-pct--/Detail.bok
Are you going to get these benefits from a scrub? Very Happy

free skin care · Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:42 am

EG,

I will pm you with some information about many with normal skin who have had major issues with damaged barriers on their skin from using TCA peels! Smile

free skin care · Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:22 am

Thanks DM. TCA peels really scare me. Shock

Firefox, funny that you mention Lactic acid as that is the particular AHA I was interested in using based on what I've learned. (Definitely more so than Glycolic Acid.) So do you only use Lactic acid/AHA and not physical exfoliation? And how would one incorporate that Lactic acid you linked to. Oh, I see that it says it's an excellent humectant when added to formulations at 3-5%. Is that enough for an AHA benefit or must it be 12% like in the study? In other words, how do you use Lactic acid?

If I remember correctly, Lactic Acid is the AHA of choice for those with more sensitive/dry/sun damaged skin. I only ever see Glycolic Acid products though.

free skin care · Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:21 am

Very interesting! Yoghurt and creme fraiche contain about 5% of lactic acid (and are wonderful to use on dry skin as a mask).

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