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Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:42 am  |
I am 49 years old and am currently taking the following:
3g of Omega 3s (this can't be cut, due to taking Paxil I use this for appetite and weight control)
1 g of EPO
15 mg of lycopene
10 mg of Astaxanthin
8000 IUs of D3
50mg soy isoflavones
8g of MSM
200mg of Hyluaronic acid
500 mg calcium
500 mg magnesium
1000 mg vitamin C
1/4 cup of coconut flakes (yields 15gs of coconut oil- can't eat the oil, yuk!)
a multi vitamin
For example, do I need the lycopene if I am taking Astaxanthin? Do I need 8 gs of MSM for hair and skin or can I take less? I'm sick of swallowing all of these pills!!!!!!!!
I will be starting HRT when my doctor thinks it is necessary.
Help!!!! |
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Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:28 am |
That's a lot of Vitamin D. Maybe you could take less? I wouldn't cut lycopene entirely but maybe you could eat foods rich in lycopene instead of take a supplement? It's more bioavailable that way anyhow. And it's preferable to get nutrients from food over supplements if you can. I eat a tbs of tomato paste a day. Organic ketchup instead of regular, organic pasta sauce, tomato soup, watermelon, guava are all good sources. Organic tomato products usually have more lycopene than non-organic versions, and they're not much more expensive than the regular varieties. Even things like low sodium V8 have lycopene. (A cup has 18 mg!) And instead of taking soy isoflavones, could you eat soy foods instead? ie have soy nuts for a snack. You'd get a lot more benefits from the food itself than an isolated supplement IMO. Plus then you get protein and it's a snack that keeps you fuller longer and helps stabilize blood sugar. Great for appetite/weight control. (I eat soy nuts every day  )
Good page regarding soybeans:
http://whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=79
Page on lycopene:
http://whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=121
How about dried squares/pieces of coconut instead of flakes? Then you could eat it as a snack, maybe with a few nuts thrown in like a trail mix, or with some soy nuts.
1000 mg of Vitamin C seems like a lot. I only take 500 mg of Vitamin C a day. I'd stick with the calcium and magnesium. I'd stick with the epo if you find it benefits you. But I'm not sure about MSM, HA or Astaxanthin. I know foods like wild salmon, shrimp and crab all contain astaxanthin. I suppose what you cut depends on your reasons for taking the supplements in the first place. Maybe you could explain why you're taking these supplements and if they've benefited you in any way. And I'm sure others will chime in as well. |
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Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:56 am |
Most of the supplements I'm taking are either for weight loss (so much D3, Omega 3s, coconut), antioxidant/sun protection (lycopene, anstaxanthin, D3), heart health (Omega 3s, EPO, coconut) or skin/hair repair/anti-aging (MSM, HA, coconut)
I really just started so I don't know if I've seen many benefits yet, though I am less tired. |
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Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:06 am |
You've just started and you're already sick of taking the pills! LOL I know how you feel!
Do you drink green tea at all? Green tea helps immensely with weight, and it's great for your health, anti-aging, sun protection/anti-oxidant etc. White tea and oolong and many others are good too. |
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Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:09 am |
I do nutritional consultations as part of my work role. Are you consistently meeting or exceeding all your government's recommendations for healthy eating?
Most people don't need omega-6s (evening primrose) because we get plenty in our diets. Actually supplementing can be counter productive because most O-6s are pro-inflammatory and the ratio of 3 to 6 is important. EPO is not a particularly good source of GLA, borage oil is better. 8g of MSM sounds huge, where did you get that number from? You don't 'need' any amount of MSM, there is no RDA.
IMO you also don't need all those separate micronutrients - one good quality complete multi plus a balanced diet should supply ample. Research suggests calcium from dairy produce may be beneficial in weight management, ditto the protein whey also from dairy. Vitamins and minerals work synergistically and in opposition, supplementing them individually can be harmful, unless they have been recommended by a registered dietician? |
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Sensitivity, forehead pigmentation & elevens, nose & chin clogged pores. Topicals: Aloe vera, squalane, lactic acid, Myfawnie KinNiaNag HG: Weleda calendula, Lanolips, Guinot masque essentiel, Flexitol Naturals, Careprost. Gadgets: Vaughter dermarollers, Lightstim. |
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Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:48 am |
That seems like quite a lot of MSM. Are you have any stomach issues from it? I've heard recomendations that 2-4mg is sufficient.
Also on the astaxanthin, I'd heard that its good to start with 8-10mg for a few weeks and then drop down to 4mg. |
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Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:21 am |
The issue is not the GLA affecting the O-3/ 0-6 balance, it is the other omega-6s in the diet or supplemented oil. EPO contains far more LA (pro-inflammatory) than GLA (anti-inflammatory). Even with the higher GLA content the research on oral borage is equivocal, topical is more convincing.
"The fatty acid composition of evening primrose oil is dominated by linoleic acid with about 72% and about 13% γ-linolenic acid, while borage oil consists of twice the amount of γ-linolenic acid and only 38% linoleic acid. The amount of saturated fatty acids is higher in borage oil. The tocopherol composition of both oils is dominated by γ-tocopherol, with borage oil containing twice the amount compared to evening primrose oil."
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ejlt.200700259/abstract |
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Sensitivity, forehead pigmentation & elevens, nose & chin clogged pores. Topicals: Aloe vera, squalane, lactic acid, Myfawnie KinNiaNag HG: Weleda calendula, Lanolips, Guinot masque essentiel, Flexitol Naturals, Careprost. Gadgets: Vaughter dermarollers, Lightstim. |
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Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:08 pm |
| Yes, I am fully aware of the linoleic acid contents of each. The amount in them isn't enough to affect omega 3/omega 6 balance IMO. Especially when one is taking fish oil as well. These supplements help many people and the most extensive research (and largest safety profile) is behind evening primrose oil. And I should have said "This one addresses the issue of evening primrose oil affecting the balance between Omega 3 and Omega 6." |
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Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:42 pm |
| egyptiangoddess wrote: |
| Yes, I am fully aware of the linoleic acid contents of each. The amount in them isn't enough to affect omega 3/omega 6 balance IMO. Especially when one is taking fish oil as well. These supplements help many people and the most extensive research (and largest safety profile) is behind evening primrose oil. And I should have said "This one addresses the issue of evening primrose oil affecting the balance between Omega 3 and Omega 6." |
I understood you perfectly EG, and I (and I am sure others) can read the links you kindly provided which make what you said very clear!  |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:44 pm |
| egyptiangoddess wrote: |
| Yes, I am fully aware of the linoleic acid contents of each. The amount in them isn't enough to affect omega 3/omega 6 balance IMO. Especially when one is taking fish oil as well. These supplements help many people and the most extensive research (and largest safety profile) is behind evening primrose oil. And I should have said "This one addresses the issue of evening primrose oil affecting the balance between Omega 3 and Omega 6." |
I understood you perfectly EG, and I (and I am sure others) can read the links you kindly provided which make what you said very clear! |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:15 pm |
| I love ha but Pharmacist Suzy Cohen recommends taking no more than 100 mg. An aesthetician I talked to today said the same..she takes it for her dry eyes and plumper skin. |
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Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:49 pm |
| egyptiangoddess wrote: |
| Yes, I am fully aware of the linoleic acid contents of each. The amount in them isn't enough to affect omega 3/omega 6 balance IMO. Especially when one is taking fish oil as well. These supplements help many people and the most extensive research (and largest safety profile) is behind evening primrose oil. And I should have said "This one addresses the issue of evening primrose oil affecting the balance between Omega 3 and Omega 6." |
We are talking about EPO as a standalone supplement not the combination of EPO with fish body oils, I have only suggested dropping the EPO and you have claimed it alone is anti-inflammatory. With respect your knowledge is out of date or you are being given only a small portion of the research to 'digest' Dr Wiel is a commercial website not a longitudinal population study or meta-analysis. The general consensus in dietetics is that those most likely to benefit from GLA supplementation are those with an imbalanced diet, those who have a genetic fault which limits conversion of LA to GLA. The reasons are varied and complex: you would need to get your head around the many functions of essential fatty acids, how the body substitutes one fatty acid for another, and how the presence of one fatty acid (not just the essential ones) affects the conversion rate of others. |
_________________
Sensitivity, forehead pigmentation & elevens, nose & chin clogged pores. Topicals: Aloe vera, squalane, lactic acid, Myfawnie KinNiaNag HG: Weleda calendula, Lanolips, Guinot masque essentiel, Flexitol Naturals, Careprost. Gadgets: Vaughter dermarollers, Lightstim. |
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Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:55 am |
| I don't recommend it blindly. We can just agree to disagree. |
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Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:50 pm |
I am confused now..I know that coconut oil has been maligned and is good for you, but is Omega 3s
really that bad???????? |
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Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:54 pm |
| bullet875 wrote: |
I am confused now..I know that coconut oil has been maligned and is good for you, but is Omega 3s
really that bad???????? |
According to gretchen and Ray Peat! Not my preferred choice for nutritional advice!  |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:27 pm |
First off, I always recommend going with getting your vitamins and nutrition from real food as opposed to pills whenever possible. There's a reason you can't ever bottle the health benefits of fruits and veggies. So for example, lycopene, why not eat a tomato instead?
Are you already getting enough calcium from your diet? If so, I'd cut out the calcium as study that came out last month showed calcium supplements raise the risk of heart attack. Google "calcium heart" to see the reports.
I also highly recommend you watch the movie "Forks over Knives". What we eat has by the far the largest effect on our health. If you want to lower your risk of disease (cancer, heart disease, etc.), focus on how you eat and not what pills you pop. |
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Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:03 pm |
| I just read the info on omega 3s in Mary Enig's book and feel better about taking them. Now, calcium. What can you suggest for someone who doesn't like dairy products? |
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Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:05 pm |
| bullet875 wrote: |
| I just read the info on omega 3s in Mary Enig's book and feel better about taking them. Now, calcium. What can you suggest for someone who doesn't like dairy products? |
Not meant to be a facetious response: maybe find recipes with dairy in that you like/ tolerate. How about a mixed berry and banana smoothie with fresh yoghurt? A standard portion of hard cheese is only 30g (small matchbox) so won't make a main meal 'cheesy'. Good quality parmesan cheese is super high in calcium, so a portion is even smaller. Homemade 'cream' of vegetable soup using powdered milk, thai curry with yoghurt or powdered milk with creamed coconut to hide the flavour and for the oil. Some research suggests calcium from dairy is better absorbed than from plant sources, and that there is a link with weight management which you mention in your first post. Even if you can only manage one portion a day it is worthwhile. Otherwise ... canned oily fish (pilchards, salmon, sardines) with the bones still in. Make pate, the bones crush down due to the canning process. Obviously do not eat bones of fresh fish. And plenty of long chain omega-3s for weight management, mental wellbeing, skin hydration and a huge range of other health benefits. 
Certain nuts and ground seeds are a good source of calcium, and some are also good sources of magnesium. But you are unlikely to eat large enough portions to get the full daily dose. Magnesium is found in wholegrains, nuts and seeds, beans and lentils.
A final thought: do you get your 10,00 steps every day AND do intense exercise - preferably strength training - three times a week? Physical activity is proven to treat mild to moderate depression as well as anti-depressants, reduce stress, will aid in weight management, help maintain or increase bone density, and benefit skin and hair. |
_________________
Sensitivity, forehead pigmentation & elevens, nose & chin clogged pores. Topicals: Aloe vera, squalane, lactic acid, Myfawnie KinNiaNag HG: Weleda calendula, Lanolips, Guinot masque essentiel, Flexitol Naturals, Careprost. Gadgets: Vaughter dermarollers, Lightstim. |
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Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:14 pm |
Regarding calcium, again I highly suggest watching "Forks over Knives." You may believe calcium prevents osteoporosis but in western countries where more milk is consumed, rates of hip fractures, a common symptom of osteoporosis, are higher. Now given this news that too much calcium negatively affects your heart, I would abandon this idea you need megadoses of it. As for food source of calcium, google "calcium sources" and you'll get a ton of replies.
Vitamins for weight loss make no sense to me either as they don't burn calories. Generally your weight is 80% what you eat, 20% exercise. So focus on eating clean, track everything you consume with a food diary as this helps you control yourself. Exercise is great not just for weight control but mental well being as well. Studies have shown exercise is more effective than anti-depressants for treating depression. So get moving! |
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Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:11 pm |
| lookwithin wrote: |
Regarding calcium, again I highly suggest watching "Forks over Knives." You may believe calcium prevents osteoporosis but in western countries where more milk is consumed, rates of hip fractures, a common symptom of osteoporosis, are higher. Now given this news that too much calcium negatively affects your heart, I would abandon this idea you need megadoses of it. As for food source of calcium, google "calcium sources" and you'll get a ton of replies.
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Medical nutrition does not simply advocate calcium/ dairy for bone health, the dietary recommendations work synergistically to achieve that. The problem with the average Western diet is that it is pro-inflammatory and acidifying, which promotes bone destruction.  Furthermore it often does not contain sufficient of other micronutrients to ensure calcium is absorbed and utilised correctly.
Calcium is involved in muscle contraction (including the heart), magnesium is key in muscle relaxation. Both work together to build strong bones. Unfortunately relatively few Westerners take in enough magnesium from wholegrains, pulses, nuts and seeds. At the same time, most take in too much sugary foods, refined carbs, soda, alcohol, caffeine and not enough oily fish - vitamin D and omega-3s - all of which play key roles in bone and cardiovascular health.  Oh and many do little to no bone building weight bearing exercise nor balance training! There was an interesting study some years ago suggesting tai chi can reduce falls and hip fractures ... nothing to do with bone strength.
Longitudinal population studies and meta-analyses of the research have picked apart the Western lifestyle, comparing and contrasting individual aspects and combinations to lifestyles elsewhere in the world. An imbalanced diet, imbalanced supplement regime or a supplement regime that is not tailored to the individual is the issue, not the dairy or the calcium supplements themselves. |
_________________
Sensitivity, forehead pigmentation & elevens, nose & chin clogged pores. Topicals: Aloe vera, squalane, lactic acid, Myfawnie KinNiaNag HG: Weleda calendula, Lanolips, Guinot masque essentiel, Flexitol Naturals, Careprost. Gadgets: Vaughter dermarollers, Lightstim. |
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Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:35 am |
I try to follow an Eastern diet high in fish, soy, vegetables, fruits, and grains (not white rice though), but it's just so hard to get the RDA when you eat less than 1500 calories per day.
Thankfully my children also prefer Asian food to western (though we do eat Mediterranean sometimes)and I buy very very little junk food (they are allowed 1 junk food per week).
As for dairy, it's tolerable and I guess I could add more greek yogurt to my diet. |
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Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:33 am |
| bullet875 wrote: |
I try to follow an Eastern diet high in fish, soy, vegetables, fruits, and grains (not white rice though), but it's just so hard to get the RDA when you eat less than 1500 calories per day.
Thankfully my children also prefer Asian food to western (though we do eat Mediterranean sometimes)and I buy very very little junk food (they are allowed 1 junk food per week).
As for dairy, it's tolerable and I guess I could add more greek yogurt to my diet. |
Bullet, that's a great way to eat. Do you drink fortified soy milk? That's a great source of calcium. You don't have to eat dairy if you don't care for it. I wouldn't recommend cutting your calcium. Calcium is great for weight loss (not just dairy) and many other things. I don't recall that study taking into account magnesium levels. And you're getting a 1:1 ratio for cal/mag supplement wise so the calcium isn't by itself. What I do recommend is absolutely talking to your Doctor before you cut or alter your calcium/magnesium. Definitely get your Doctors opinion on that supplement. And probably your Vitamin D supplement as well. And obviously you should mention your fish oil too. For the rest of your supplements, lycopene and astaxanthin are probably fine if you want the extra UV protection (But there are foods with those too) and I highly recommend drinking green tea if you don't already. And maybe do more research on your HA and MSM to help you decide if you'd like to continue those. |
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