Bad experience with Flex Effect. Anyone else have the same?
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free skin care · Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:52 pm

This is a long post but please bare with me, I need to detail everything as I need your help lovely people!

I bought Flexeffect and have been exercising for a month. About me: I am fairly young, 30 but look 27. I build muscle very fast, exceptionally I think, as I am thin but lean and I was an amateur athlete for about 6 years and noted how quickly I show build.

I started exercising as I just wanted to start something preventative for some little lines cropping up on my forehead and also for my nasolabial parentheses which I have a tendency towards because I have a Jolie type lower face, large lips and fine build, delicate bones, much as I have always loved my big lips now they are giving me those dreaded NLs. I really wanted to get rid of these NL folds as in the last year they suddenly increased; I sleep on a silk pillow case in foetus position- try not to but always end up on my side- bad for my folds I know! Silk pillow case does not seem to have helped much. So I bought FE.

I started FE after trying some Carole Maggio for about a month, her old program which I found posted for free on a forum- btw now been taken down Sad

which I loved but felt that something more intense would do more for me and my NLS and forehead.

So I started flexeffect -just the resistance program- over a month ago but all the pulling on my skin has made my skin so very irritated, it is red, lots of open pores and weird blemishes, it feels very rough. It seems like the rough pulling motions required have injured it or bought crap to the surface, I would not ever dare even try the aggressive massages or pressure reps!! I know my skin is very sensitive as I only exfoliate once a week with stuff for sensitive skin anything else and I get broken capillaries, spots and irritation.
After a few weeks I thought to persevere to get through an awkward phase but things have not much improved.

In addition my face is looking really disproportionate, very bulky in the lower half, I'm already getting a touch of the monkey mouth which I have read about and although I love the squareness of my jaw, my middle to lower face is starting to look too wide. I wanted to do more cheek exercises to balance this out but these are precisely the exercises that involve pulling with the pull and lock technique, and this is the one technique that seems to irritate my skin!
The one where you put your thumb inside your mouth against your teeth and contract the cheek to your teeth seems fine, no irritation as no pulling- does anyone think I could continue this for my NLS? does it helps NLS?

I'm thinking I should probably give up and that this system is not for me. After reading so many positive reviews I dont want to give up but I dont know how long I can live with such irritated skin.
In addition to this looking at Deb and Audrea, their faces are very wide, somewhat bulky, this looks fine on them as they have bigger bones that I do but this is not the look I want because with small delicate features and bones I think it would look awful if my face got any wider than it currently is after 1 month of exercise. I have seen those like Maggio, Fraser, Carolyn Cleaves seem to have less bulky faces.

I'm thinking one size does not fit all and maybe I should try a more gentle and less bulking program. Or maybe I should do Maggio and incorporate a few non-pulling resistance exercises from FE for NLs. But not sure how I'd choose as the face is complex and it seems that it is the union of numerous exercises that produces the best results not a mish mash of mismatching ones.

TO CONCLUDE:
Please give me your feedback.
Anyone else have a bad experience with Flex Effect?
Anyone use another facial exercise program for a long time which is less aggressive and get great results?
Any advice is appreciated!

free skin care · Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:19 pm

Try the Safetox....no skin manipulation required, and it has lifted my cheeks enough in the past to greatly reduce my marionette lines. At your age, that should be more than enough to eliminate your NL lines and help avoid any forehead wrinkles too.

Btw, I have used FlexEffect, Ageless, and Eva Frazier programs. The only downside is that the Safetox is more expensive than these programs, but you do have a lot of time savings.

Alternatively, you can just stop the exercise and let the muscles atrophy or you can continue and maybe some of the experts here can help you find a way to have less irritation.

free skin care · Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:41 pm

Thanks Bethany!
I dont want the muscles to atrophy! I want to work my face but hope there is a more gentle way of doing it.
I was thinking of trying CFF but am a little scared after reading on here about younger people saying it did weird things to the hollows under their eyes.

free skin care · Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:11 pm

VirginiaWhite wrote:

Thanks Bethany!
I dont want the muscles to atrophy! I want to work my face but hope there is a more gentle way of doing it.
I was thinking of trying CFF but am a little scared after reading on here about younger people saying it did weird things to the hollows under their eyes.

Have you checked in with Claudia on the dedicated FE forum? Or you can pm her here....her id is ClaudiaFE and she is very helpful.

free skin care · Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:17 am

Welcome!

Virginia what made you choose facial exercise to address the early signs of ageing, are you also using proven anti-ageing topicals? What are you doing with your diet, lifestyle and skincare routine to address the underlying sensitivity/ reactivity? Have you recently seen a dermatologist or your family doctor to rule out the early stages of rosacea or very mild dermatitis? Many products advertised for sensitive skin contain known irritants, so it is well worth reading ingredients lists and researching every one. Not all skin types require or benefit from frequent exfoliation, it can damage the skin barrier and exacerbate inflammatory or irritant skin disorders.

free skin care · Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:17 am

Hi Virgina

You are so good to start this so young, and I really really wish I had done so when I was your age (and I’m double it and then some now!).

Now with the preventative measures – I hear you and think you choose a good system, but am wondering if you used the forum at all there where the trainers can and would have advised you? Just curious as it sounds like you’ve been trying to figure this stuff out on your own, and as I’ve found during the last 10 years, doing so is a huge struggle as there are often little things that we do thinking we’re right, where in essence it makes things worse (temporarily).

Now how was your face after the Maggio exercises? Were the NLs and forehead lines there then?

A month is a bit too short a time frame to get big results. You should have had some by now, but I think the trainers would say things to you like ease up on the resistance your using and start out lightly with the massage if your skin is delicate. That’s what I’ve read on the forums before and suspect that will be the same advice given to you.

It does sound to me like your skin is having a detox. I know I once had the same experience with a very different program where my skin seemed to bring up a load of gunk to the surface and it scared the crap out of me, and I got in contact with the program creator straight away and she was fantastic. She explained the crap and gunk that was coming to the surface was my body doing a little detox. Hell I even had a break out of acne (and that’s something I never suffered from) in my 50’s, and so I knew something was going on. As that teacher told me at the time, if you don’t get rid of that stuff it sits underneath the skin breeding and I have to say it took about 3 months for all the gunk to go, but when it did my skin was lovely.

Now with the disproportion, I suspect that this is a bit of overbuild going on.
Not all the trainers have wide faces. Loli is so pretty in my opinion and has a beautiful and slender face and I really love how she gets all these great diagrams etc. Eva Fraser is a good program, but its one you would either have to go to her for sessions with or use a dvd to really ensure your doing it correctly. Maggio’s full program is good, but as you had done one previously its probably a good idea to try something else. Maybe something like Tom Haggerty’s Shapeyourface.com one (which is free – but he sells a dvd of him demoing the exercises). I like CFF as its like a massage to me more than resistance, but I do know the person you’re talking about and the email I had from her a little while ago said she had some improvement but was still suffering.
I do agree with you that one size doesn’t fit all – with any program out there, but I do like the way that FlexEffect and Maggio have you adapt the program to suit your own needs, and you can make it less intense or irritating or lessen up on them. So I think with that in mind I’d recommend you speak with any of the trainers or even Claudia if she is here to get personal advice (which is often free!).

free skin care · Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:46 am

Here is my result of doing FE.

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=6454474&highlight=groove#6454474

free skin care · Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:03 am

Thanks for all your replies.
TheresaMary: what routine do you do? I think you mentioned you mix and match. How did you choose what to do? What do you recommend I start with.

To answer your Q:
Yes I also do other things to keep looking young: total sun avoidance, no smoking, no drinking, lots of water, no soda, only herbal tea, vitamins (C, MSM, Copper, Zinc, Magnesium, B Vits, Spirulina, Flax seed, Hylauronic Acid,Borage Oil, probiotics and recently started COQ10 thinking of trying selenium). I also eat more than my 5 a day of veggies, some fruits low in sugars like berries (but not too much fruit due to high sugar content which makes me tired and I took loads of antibiotics as a teenager to fight adult acne but which left me with a consistent candida problem which is interesting because Sean says Chinese medicine says NL folds are caused in part by digestive problems), no wheat, no gluten, no High GI carbs, no processed foods and when I can I do juicing.

Topically:
I do Vit C home made serum made with rosewater and vit c powder. I also use organic oils and organic creams (dream cream from skin actives and bioactive sea kelp ferment). I have tried retin a and copper peptides but stopped as I found them both to be very harsh for my fragile skin. I try to stay natural. I massage my skin but only very gently as any more seems to irritate it. I tried Tanaka massage but after a week my whole face puffed up and was swollen for a whole week!

I own FE and recently bought CFF and was thinking of starting that instead as Carolyn said many people have a bad time with FE- but apart from Noni I have not seen anyone else on the net who disliked FE and changed to CFF with good results - but the scare stories on here about girls in my age group had me worrying about whether it was a good idea to start CFF/ ---> !!!!does anyone know what exercise in particular was believed responsible for those problems? I'm very wary!

I have been told to combine programs but dont know much about face exercising principles and was thinking of doing most of CFF but with FE 1, 12,14,15 and 25 which Sean says target NL folds but am worried I'll end up with an off balance look.

As I said I am 30 but look younger and I really am looking for advice from those who are wise and experienced but understand I dont wont an overbuilt look more to rid myself of NL fold and forehead wrinkles.

It seems hard to get non-biased advice, Carolyn when I mentioned I wanted to buy her product because of FE problems told me to stop FE, she said she had some clients with some bad experiences. She was very nice and good customer service, she reassured me CFF was best for my young skin.

Whereas FE people tell me to keep working through the hard times, persevere to get good results. FE reps seem to think CFF is no good because it is isotonic and you wont get results from those kind of exercises and there are those who say, I used to do isotonic exercises but they just dont cut it.

I have to admit the FE forums do a really good marketing job and make one think FE is really the best system and there is tons of support and training options. After discussions there, I admit I may have been too rough with my exercising for my thin skin to handle and I would probably benefit as suggested to only exercise about 3 times a week rather than 5. Also I was told to not do ALL the exercises but only one in each variation. So maybe I can also alter my FE program to be easier on me.

However from all the different advice from FE reps or CFF rep now I am more confused than ever! It seems they really advocate their own system and I feel like I'm being pulled from one to the other in a tug of war!!!

I just want to prevent ageing without any horrible side effects! I get scared of people who post about one system or another ruining their face
Shock

Some who did CFF say it ruined their eyes. Some who did FE said it made them bulky or awkward looking. But for every bad example is a good one; for CFF Noni, who got great results- anyone else-I'm sure others have said they liked it?
for FE summer as well as course all the reps such as Loli.

If anyone can guide me I really need help making a decision!
I'm spending too much time worrying about this and it's getting ridiculous!

free skin care · Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:24 am

I was doing the 3rd edition of FlexEffect religiously (as I had done for the 2nd edition) until I changed to Carolyn's program.
The reason that I changed is not because FE doesn't build face muscles, but because of the difficulty in avoiding folds when pulling the muscles. You must be very vigilant with FE. Initially, when I started FE (2nd edition), my face was looking good.
But this did not last, and the folds, including NL lines were side-effects that seemed to be common according to the forums.
I could probably have found a solution for me, but after trying for a long time, I switched. Actually, I started substituting some FE exercises with corresponding ones from Carolyn.
Even though I had purchased Carolyn's program months before, I didn't do the program at all because it looked too mild to have any effect. But I was wrong.
It is much easier with Carolyn's program (for me) because there is no need to finagle the exercises. Once in a while, I add some Loli alterations for the FE exercises.

free skin care · Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:34 am

Marie-Andre do you mostly only do CFF now?

You mentioned adding some FE variations, could you explain to me what those would be or where I could find them on the forum. How often do you add them? every time? or once a month?

I know what you mean about the folds being caused by FE exercises, all the resisting has my scrunching up my forehead and I am starting to see the beginning of 11s on my forehead which I never had before, I had to watch not to scrunch there when I was resisting in cheek exercises and the like.

free skin care · Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:34 am

I do mix and match, but I’ve done several programs for the full year and then some, before getting to the stage that I felt comfortable enough to mix and match. I started out with one program which I did for a full year, and then played about with a few that were in vogue at the time, and then being an EDSer started listening to what the girls here were finding and haven’t had any regrets whatsoever.

Carolyn is never going to promote or sing the praises of another program, but no program creator out there would do or will do. Also for what its worth I think there was a thread some time ago where a lot of people who own her program spoke out about issues they had, and it became very clear to me that the thing that she always says FlexEffect is bad for i.e. overbuild and so to me it shows that any program out there can cause overbuild. I’ve even read of shapeyourface doing that for some people.

I think Theresa was most concerned about her lower eye area as she felt she developed hollows from doing the lower lid exercises. I think though if you do decide to try with CFF you’ll have to give it some time to work and as you’ve only given FlexEffect a month, that’s probably too short a time.

If you’re getting advice from Sean, then I’d follow that as most times when he has given me advice and I’ve followed it, its always been right. I also have seen him do wonders for people on the forum there so it makes me think if he has suggested something to you its worthwhile trying. Did he really say to only do those exercises though – as usually they make a big song and dance that you have to do everything. Did he not say anything about massage as I was betting he was going to say something like do it lighter.

I’ve not seen FlexEffect ever label CFF as isotonic (and think there could be consequences if this is correct?). Who are you on their forum and I’ll take a look? I thought everyone was supposed to do only one variation per week? Uh oh maybe I’ve been doing it wrong, but I could have sworn Deb says on the dvd to do only one per week. Yikes need to get my book out – uh oh I’m bad.

free skin care · Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:45 am

VirginiaWhite wrote:

I have been told to combine programs but dont know much about face exercising principles and was thinking of doing most of CFF but with FE 1, 12,14,15 and 25 which Sean says target NL folds but am worried I'll end up with an off balance look.

Whereas FE people tell me to keep working through the hard times, persevere to get good results. FE reps seem to think CFF is no good because it is isotonic and you wont get results from those kind of exercises and there are those who say, I used to do isotonic exercises but they just dont cut it.

Hi There, I have a few questions. Above bolding mine.

1) Who is telling you to combine programs? It's my experience that each program will advise you not to combine. It's not so much that you could never combine favorite exercises. But as you say, you don't understand the principals enough to do such a thing. Anyone telling you specifically to combine programs without knowing your personal situation comes from inexperience.

Combining favorites is ultimately fine. However, I don't recommend it to a newbie. Why? Not out of superiority, but rather I don't have time to sit down and work through your creation to figure out where you have gone wrong. I don't know anyone trainer that has time to sit down with all the programs, and look at the combo you might create and how each exercise is supposed to interact. Sure there are general reasons. But wouldn't you rather have specifics?

2) Would you please point me to the response you rec'd where an FE "person" told you to "keep working through the hard times, persevere to get good results." without having an understanding of exactly what you're dealing with? Given your description I'm not familiar with your situation in our workshop. Perhaps I missed your discussion. Regardless, It would be important that I correct anyone that is giving advise on our forum without actually taking a "history" so to speak.

3) And finally, which "Reps" are saying that CFF is no good? The only "reps" of FE are myself, Deb and Audrea. Then there are volunteer trainers. Sure, we all have opinions as to why we think we offer a better program. Certainly you would want anyone selling you something to believe in the product they sell. Granted with some of the copycats I've seen over the years, I can see how some program "developers" (and I use that term quite loosely) have jumped on the vanity of men and women, see a good thing, and have plagiarized away. My favorite is the woman in India whose plastic surgeon husband is a judge for beauty pageants. She actually copied our entire book and website and sells it to the unsuspecting for nearly $2,000. WOW, talk about scary biz tactics. But I digress.

We do believe that resistance training is where it's at. As you get older, in our opinion and experience, you need more than isotonics if you really want to work hard against the process of aging. Not to mention the over 40 crowd generally find they can no longer keep up with their 20's lifestyle without obvious setbacks.

I would still compare this to bodybuilding. I think many women will get away with a workout at Curves. Their program offers much to everyone. But to those that really want to get down to it. Curves will not satisfy them. Too regimented without variation. This doesn't invalidate Curves. And few would say it's "no good." It's just not the same.

In the end, you will have to, through trial and error, and personal preference pick a routine that you enjoy and that gives you your desired results.

It's not a competition between programs. Although some like to pretend there is. The most well known programs offer something very different from each other. And most those in the middle are a regurgitation of their personal preferences.

Just like Pilates, Yoga, TRX Training, and straight up weight lifting offer different styles and results in training. But they all work the body and well. And once you know your face, in the same way you know your body, you can mix up those styles to do things YOU enjoy to acquire the shape your DNA allows.

free skin care · Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:57 am

Also, I wanted to add. I know it's confusing for the enexperienced. Don't think for a minute that body building wasn't difficult for women to navigate when it first started to become popular among women, but not yet quite mainstream. Women build differently than men, and women were often handed a man's routine and then had to work through trial and error.

When Deb first started competeting there were no 24 hour fitness, or pretty gyms that didn't smell like a sweat sock or look like a boxing gym. There weren't a lot of machines. Machines, in case you don't know it, are primarly designed after the average WOMAN's body frame. Anyone that falls outside of average, and the allowable adjustments, MOSTLY MEN can't even fit into the machines.

Anyone under probably 45, or wasn't raised by a gym rat is probably completely unaware of how women navigated through the scary, confusing waters of bodybuilding.

And today, I'll be danged if you STILL don't hear women announcing they couldn't possibly workout out in a gym because they don't want to look like a man. As if their natural DNA would even allow it. Lack of understanding in what seems a very mainstream practice.

You will find very much the same in the world of facial exercises. Many here that sing the praises of facial exercises could have their profile searched a good 2-5 years back to find they were adamantly against such horrors.

I think facial exercises are still in the branding stage of Drucker's s-curve.

free skin care · Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:08 am

See Claudia’s posted already, but I got pointed here too.

If when you being the exercises and massage you get signs of irritation it means that you need to lighten up for the present time on the pressure and intensity you are doing things. It doesn’t mean FlexEffect is not for you – simply means your skin is super sensitive to the pressure and intensity you started off with. No biggie – it would improve over time as your skin becomes stronger. Same is true for any program that uses resistance, if the skin has been neglected for several years, then when you suddenly start handling it it will show signs of stress (which often are where the body attempts to protect itself and is unsure of the technique, so things like puffy eyes etc are not uncommon in the beginning). If you get awkward results, speak to a trainer – that’s what we’re here for. Things can always be tweaked to ease things up in your workouts.

If you find that your face is looking disproportionate, let us know what you have been doing. Most times people report disproportion – its because something is amiss. As we’ve already seen from today, some people misunderstand the variations – no biggie, but its important to be completely clear on what your doing and why. Don’t start customising the workout before you have that foundation in place – until you know how your face responds, which muscles are stronger/weaker its going to be incredibly tricky for you to do so successfully (but not impossible mind you). Does one size fit all – of course not because not everyone has the same universal goals when it comes to their faces. Some will want strengthening in particular regions, some will be dealing with excessive sun damage, but in choosing a program you want one that will tackle the causes of all of these and will work holistically with the body.

I note you have taken to quoting several snippets of info I’ve given and without the full background history behind them which is most interesting to me and reflective. Chinese Medicine never suggests a one cause only thing for anything. Whilst its true I’ve said in the past NLs can be symbolic of digestive issues (not problems – as they are considered an issue or challenge in TCM), its not only the cause of that, for example NLs can just as easily be caused by slackening muscles like the zygomaticus, and without having seen a photo of you its impossible for me to determine which is the cause. Chinese medicine is a whole world in itself and a very great and indepth one that never would such a diagnosis or cause be labelled without sufficient studies (things like eye colour, hair colour, tongue shape, skin colour and tone, texture, as well as pulses of the organs would be taken before they even went to diagnosis such issues).

Now if you purchased CFF and think that’s going to work for your face better – great, good for you. However trying to mix and mash two programs together is not such a good idea because you don’t know your face well enough and that’s always been what we have forewarned beginners from doing.

Likewise I want to more importantly address a statement you have said here particularly against FE and CFF which is INCORRECT. I have not and nor has any of the other trainers that I’m aware have ever labelled CFF as a ISOTONIC program (and that’s not really a label we would use as Carolyn labels her exercises very clearly as resistance). Besides in the back of the book there are some FE Isotonic exercises. Of course I suspect this is done purely to create a battle between FlexEffect and Carolyn and its most unnecessary and disappointing that you would choose to do so, but nonetheless I think I have made it clear that this is not true. Now I don’t know who told you to combine programs, but its not something we would usually recommend to someone of only a month’s training, so I’m curious as to who you are referring to here? We’re not actually against combining programs, hell if people like elements of a program then we’d encourage them to combine it in a sensible way to gain full benefits and more importantly to enjoy their workout. No one at FlexEffect nor at CFF would want to put anyone in a tug of war, and I suspect its purely because you have not been upfront with us about doing both programs, and so of course you would receive seemingly contradictory advice. Had we have known we would have of course advised you very differently.

For what its worth, Nonie wasn’t using the same edition you were but a very older edition and was also present when there were less trainers and less support, so her experience whilst you may think is similar is actually very different.

I rarely come to EDS, as have often found that my time gets eaten into but couldn't let some untrue statements go by unchallenged. As most flexers who visit the forum know me well enough - when they read some of the stuff here they gave me a shout and I'm very pleased they did!

free skin care · Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:43 am

VirginiaWhite wrote:

To answer your Q:
Yes I also do other things to keep looking young: total sun avoidance, no smoking, no drinking, lots of water, no soda, only herbal tea, vitamins (C, MSM, Copper, Zinc, Magnesium, B Vits, Spirulina, Flax seed, Hylauronic Acid,Borage Oil, probiotics and recently started COQ10 thinking of trying selenium). I also eat more than my 5 a day of veggies, some fruits low in sugars like berries (but not too much fruit due to high sugar content which makes me tired and I took loads of antibiotics as a teenager to fight adult acne but which left me with a consistent candida problem which is interesting because Sean says Chinese medicine says NL folds are caused in part by digestive problems), no wheat, no gluten, no High GI carbs, no processed foods and when I can I do juicing.

Topically:
I do Vit C home made serum made with rosewater and vit c powder. I also use organic oils and organic creams (dream cream from skin actives and bioactive sea kelp ferment). I have tried retin a and copper peptides but stopped as I found them both to be very harsh for my fragile skin. I try to stay natural. I massage my skin but only very gently as any more seems to irritate it. I tried Tanaka massage but after a week my whole face puffed up and was swollen for a whole week!

Hope you don't mind me commenting on your diet, it is part of what I do for a living. Embarassed

Sounds like you are very much on the right track nutritionally!! Are you eating plenty of oily fish? Flax oil is healthy but the conversion of the short chain omega-3s it contains to the useable long chain format is fairly low. Also are you getting sufficient total fat, and taking in a source of complete protein at each meal and snack?

Which form of vitamin C are you DIYing, L-ascorbic acid? If so that needs to be used at quite a low pH (<3) which is too harsh for daily use on some skin types. Maybe consider switching to a gentler form of vitamin C such as MAP or AA2G? You might also consider switching to lipids that are found in a healthy skin barrier - these are primarily ceramides, cholesterol and the saturates stearic acid and palmitic acid. Some of the best natural sources are lanolin (medical grade is hypoallergenic), egg or soya lecithin, West African shea butter and palm fruit oil. You might like DragoN's serum recipes, she focusses on natural ingredients without losing sight of the science, and is a fan of both sea kelp bioferment and lecithin which will help support your skin's production of ceramides.
http://skinessentialactives.blogspot.co.uk/
Another active you don't mention but might consider is aloe vera: research proves this is hydrating, anti-inflammatory, healing AND collagen inducing. Cool

free skin care · Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:15 pm

VirginiaWhite wrote:

I have seen those like Maggio, Fraser, Carolyn Cleves seem to have less bulky faces.

Hello Virginia,

It’s odd that you would use the word bulky when describing my face. Over the YEARS that very description of me has only come from a disgruntled competitor of mine who sells a plagiarized watered-down program consisting of several other facial trainers material. No, I’m sorry, it would be highly unethical of me to name this person or, more to the truth, would probably get this post taken down. So... let the buyer beware.

Since this is such a public forum I felt it necessary to post a few photos of my so-called bulky face. I started training in my early 30’s ... just like you.

Bulky photo #1
Photo age 47 - In training for 15 years

My next bulky shot age 50 - Training for 18 years

Next bulky shot age 56 - Training for 24 years

My next bulky shots age 61 - Training for 28 years. I apologize for such a close up and lack of makeup.

My latest photo age 62 - Training for 30 years.

Will you just look at the bulging bulk under those eyes!

If anyone is interested in a full page of photo’s showing my journey into masculinity here’s a link. http://www.flexeffect.com/debpic.htm

Cheers
Deb

Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:03 pm

VirginiaWhite wrote:

Anyone else have a bad experience with Flex Effect?
Anyone use another facial exercise program for a long time which is less aggressive and get great results?
Any advice is appreciated!

I gave the preliminary program (30 exercises!! My entire body doesn't require that many for strength training), a brief (two days brief) trial run and absolutely hated it. I found the majority of the exercises awkward, uncomfortable, overly complicated, difficult to remember, and was very unhappy with being asked to exaggerate expression lines during some of the exercises. I understand the premise that eventually the muscle will build and the lines will disappear - and this is certainly the case for some flex effect enthusiasts - but I hated every second that I was furrowing my brow and wrinkling my nose...it felt contradictory. Plus, I know for a fact that it's unnecessary.

I woke up the next day (even though I was doing 3 reps max) with a bloated, tired looking face and fluid retention beneath my eyes. I'm used to facial exercises giving me an instant perky boost and healthy glow; I can't deal with looking like I've just been in a fight, or consumed a gallon of salt the night before. I knew my skin couldn't handle stretching but I thought "maybe this time will be different; maybe Flex Effect is designed to minimize the side-effects of stretching." Nope. I even gave the alternative holds a go with no luck.

I just wanted you to know you aren't the only one whose face isn't compatible with FE. You're allowed to have a bad experience, and critiquing the program is necessary to keep the feedback balanced and honest. So I'd just like to say "thank you" for sharing your experience, even if not everyone else here is glad you did.

Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:17 pm

VirginiaWhite wrote:

The one where you put your thumb inside your mouth against your teeth and contract the cheek to your teeth seems fine, no irritation as no pulling- does anyone think I could continue this for my NLS? does it helps NLS?

No, that's a buccinator exercise. It's going to do that thing you don't want, add bulk to your lower face. The caninus exercise is for NLs, and you can continue using the orbicularis oris one where you put your fingers inside your mouth at the corners and pull inwards - though, a caveat, I found that one online a long time ago and had disastrous results. It gave me cheek pouches and did weird things to my chin. My muscles are extremely responsive, like yours, so maybe you would have the same experience and maybe not.

free skin care · Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:25 pm

Nanella wrote:

VirginiaWhite wrote:

Anyone else have a bad experience with Flex Effect?
Anyone use another facial exercise program for a long time which is less aggressive and get great results?
Any advice is appreciated!

I gave the preliminary program (30 exercises!! My entire body doesn't require that many for strength training), a brief (two days brief) trial run and absolutely hated it. I found the majority of the exercises awkward, uncomfortable, overly complicated, difficult to remember, and was very unhappy with being asked to exaggerate expression lines during some of the exercises. I understand the premise that eventually the muscle will build and the lines will disappear - and this is certainly the case for some flex effect enthusiasts - but I hated every second that I was furrowing my brow and wrinkling my nose...it felt contradictory. Plus, I know for a fact that it's unnecessary.

I woke up the next day (even though I was doing 3 reps max) with a bloated, tired looking face and fluid retention beneath my eyes. I'm used to facial exercises giving me an instant perky boost and healthy glow; I can't deal with looking like I've just been in a fight, or consumed a gallon of salt the night before. I knew my skin couldn't handle stretching but I thought "maybe this time will be different; maybe Flex Effect is designed to minimize the side-effects of stretching." Nope. I even gave the alternative holds a go with no luck.

I just wanted you to know you aren't the only one whose face isn't compatible with FE. You're allowed to have a bad experience, and critiquing the program is necessary to keep the feedback balanced and honest. So I'd just like to say "thank you" for sharing your experience, even if not everyone else here is glad you did.

Such passion. Regardless, I have to ask, if you were so pleased with what you were used to. A perky boost and a healthy glow... why on earth would you spend $125.00 to reinvent the wheel that was working quite well for you?

I imagine you took advantage of our refund policy, and returned the product for a complete refund. If not, perhaps you still have time. I find most seasoned Internet shoppers and forum visitors such as yourself are keenly aware of return policies.

Or perhaps you registered in the free workshop forum to ask some questions as to why we do things the way we do. Although your specific story is unfamiliar.

Just for the record there are over 30 exercises one can do for their body. And that's just weight lifting.

When in a pilates studio, I don't even think I could count. My TRX poster offer nearly 30. And those are considered basic moves.

In ballet, well the list goes on and on, and then you have to learn all the styles. Russian, Cecchetti (I'm most familiar with), French. I really hate it when the same move goes by several names. Or different moves by the same name. That seems really unnecessary. But I'll be danged I wish I could turn like Baryshnikov. I don't care what style he does. I've endured his style of class just to improve turns.

My point with regard to the above bodywork is that only a complete program would offer you a way to hit all of your facial muscles from various angles. There is NO SUCH THING as one size fits all. But like all types of workouts, basics are always taught first. With tweaking left to be determined based on results.

And I guarantee the most beautiful ballerina went through hell with all the awkwardness of every single body manipulation. You can bet she wanted it badly. Voluntary muscle control is HARD! Head to toe. Regardless, at FE we would never ask you to endure something as awful as bloody toes, and humiliating corrections infront of a full class. We're much more low key, and would work a person through their difficulties.

For example, Nanella, I'd have had a handful of suggestions with regards to your 2 day, all out test run. But was not asked best as I can tell.

Of course we live in a free world and are entitled to our opinions of how we look.

I'm actually quite pleased this opinion was shared. I'm still waiting to be pointed to the very falty advise supposedly rec'd on our site. I really need to be able to correct the "giver".

So I'm hoping, since I'm sure Virginia is here in her honest quest for some type of answer, she would be willing to help us better our service and product in the future. I look forward to getting further insight.

One can always e-mail me at Claudia@flexeffect.com. Or use the PM above... If they'd like to take their personal situation private. I know many don't want to share the before and afters I'm sure they took based on direction with the whole wide world... For every google search out there to find! Cool

free skin care · Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:27 pm

Firefox --> thanks for the advice, I think the MAP vitamin C is a great idea and I'll definitely give it a go! I noticed skinactives stocks it.
I'll have to contact the lady you suggested about her tips and tricks as making your own stuff is the best once you know what you are doing! You mentioned shea butter, well dream cream from skin actives has that as its main ingredient, so happy to hear it is so beneficial as I use it daily.

I do eat lots of healthy protein which I need as I have been training very seriously for 7 years now: no red meat, only white meat, oily fish twice a week, some dairy but not too much as I find lactose can make me overproduce mucus (ewww) and sometimes it makes me sniffly- is that an allergy? I suspect my body is not crazed about it but I try to eat curd, some cheese for the vitamin K2 and kefir for the probiotics. Plus I love broad beans (which are low in lectins) but I don't eat any other lentils or pulses as I read the high level of lectins can irritate the gut and also mess with one's thyroid. I also started eating okra recently as I read the mucilage clings to lectins and helps them to be eradicated quickly and without problem and that also these properties prevent bowel problems and illnesses.

Deb--> I hope you will take the time to read this long reply in which I hope to address your thoughts in terms that I am sure you as a body builder can comprehend. I mean not to diss anyone's program but to give you a -perhaps valuable- insight into a client's view on your product and I hope it will help you to address issues in the best possible way, which I feel others also have from pming various people on various forums.

I honestly do not want to upset anyone and you have such perfect eyes and forehead no one could ever deny that, the close ups are incredible and you can be very proud that all these years of hard work have paid off because I am sure so many women of 60, 50 even 40 would love to have your wrinkle free big blue eyes and smooth skin. I also don't want to upset Carolyn who I think has gorgeous cheek bones and a cute little nose plus a stunning sheen to her complexion.
We all have great things about our faces and of course some of that is genetic and some of that hard work! I would rather have that due to hard work than surgery and I have always worked very hard exercising my body to perfection, so am sure it is possible for the face but I have had to concentrate on certain areas of my body whilst others have with minimum effort exceeded expectation.
Which leads me to my point that as we all have strengths and weaknesses, we need to know how to capitalize our strengths and address our weaknesses.

As for me, I am just a newbie who was looking for info and it seems I have become entangled in a war between CFF and FE! This was not my intention, nor is it my purpose to hurt anyone's feelings. I know how personally and to heart we all take comments on our looks, which is why we all want to do facial exercises to begin with. Both you and Carolyn have worked very hard at perfecting and promoting a program you invested heart, body and soul in and which you believe in. I do trust that it is not a money making scheme although cash helps, but also to help women and men all over appear their best. Compared to the price of invasive surgery, your programs are well-priced. I also have no complaints about the amazing and caring customer service.

I do, however, honestly wish there was not so much opposition between the two camps because I feel we can all always learn from each other in life and that turmoil just creates stress which is not good for anyone's well-being. Also seeing all of this going on is very scary to a newbie like me because honestly I just want advice and guidance, not people accusing nor fighting around me or because of me, or telling me bad things about other people. It makes me feel quite sad to be quite honest and that is not good for anyone's business. After reading all of this, both camps criticizing each other, I sometimes feel I should just avoid face exercising and try gadgets or fillers for my face but this is not what I really want!

I think with any face system one can have good results. Just like going to the gym and running for 15 minutes twice a week, is not ideal, better to go for 45 mins X 3 a week to lose weight but even a 15 minute run X 2 a week or a brisk walk weekly is better than sitting in front of the telly eating junk food day in day out.

However I have of late, been leaning towards CFF just because I have seen people like Noni, clearly get great results and because of the ease of exercising. I see that it is a simple, easy program to do and Carolyn has heaps of photos of people with good results. It seems like a simple system that someone with no knowledge of facial muscles can very quickly pick up and start with not too many problems without having to know where exactly a zyg this or a "zag-that" is located. I think Carolyn has done us all a service in creating a very neat little program that is well explained and easy to do. I find the exercises very obvious and well-formulated. I think this is a very good choice for someone who wants something user friendly and which does not demand incredible knowledge, time nor commitment.

FE seems like a system where one can get excellent results, if one knows what one is doing! For a beginner it is very complicated, and honestly overwhelming sometimes! I feel like I need a whole education in the musculature of the face and I don't have time to do that, unlike you Deb, I know your knowledge is expansive. For FE, unlike CFF, you need to put your thumb (or fingers) in exactly the right place, isolate the right muscle, contract it correctly and use the right resistance. That is not an easy thing to do for someone who has no idea where to begin! Some muscles admittedly are logistically available or easy to find- like the chin, jaw work outs or caninus exercises- but some, primarily the cheek ones are very complex.

The DVD is useful but goes very fast, it's very hard to see where Audrey is putting her thumb, how she is moving her muscle, one she's locked on, its pretty much impossible to judge anything. You really could use some videos of the style that loli has that show the muscle moving alone etc. Her post on the zyg major made me realise I was doing everything all wrong. It may be self-evident to a qualified person like you Deb, but trust me for an unqualified person, it is very very hard to know what, where, how. The book gives some idea but once again there is only one pic per exercise and once again Loli's diagrams with the arrows in red and black give a much better picture and I wish she did that for all the exercises and that it was in your FE book. If you created a 4th edition, it would be amazing to have Loli's diagrams of inside and outside the face, her explanations (in better English Wink

, her little videos prior to each exercise, which show the muscle contraction on its own etc exactly as she does in her posts on FE forum. That would really be of great service!

Also from what I understand, muscles, much like muscles in the body sit differently on different people and can be smaller, bigger, harder to activate and locate according to our body/face type. Plus since these facial muscles can be small (esp on someone like me who is petite), locating a little muscle you've never heard of in your life before is arduous. I keep thinking, is that a muscle or not? If so is it the right one?

Ultimately I think damage can be done if one is not activating nor locating muscles correctly and an unattractive build can be had which is where the problem occurs. Also I see that sometimes it is very hard to isolate one muscle or maybe it is so weak that another one compensates and for this reason, once again the result can be negative.

I am an avid athlete and have competed for several years in the past. Today I dont compete but train very intensely. I do a lot of weights mostly compound movements, Olympic style exercises plus machines to isolate weak muscles. I see people in the gym making mistakes all the time which I know they pay for.

Here are 3 examples that I am sure can apply to FE

A) a person who deadlifts with bad form: terrible posture, a crooked back and is hurting himself without even knowing it, maybe even injuring his lumber in a very dangerous way.

B) the person who wants to train his legs fully and so stacks on the weight and then squats but only goes a quarter of the way down (not below parallel) so in fact is barely working out his quads, hamstrings, glutes at all.

C) a person who has very strong shoulders, biceps and tris and does a chest exercise but does not know how to activate their pecs or their pecs are so weak that when they do their exercise they instead (or maybe the body compensates by letting them) use all arms and shoulders and not pecs.

I am sure all these scenarios are applicable for FE
a) would be someone who is using an improper movement -bad form- and is damaging themselves through it, worsening their face

b) would be someone who does not do the movement to its full potential and so misses out on muscle activation and therefore gets little or no results

c) would be someone who is doing a movement but not knowing how to isolate properly or because their muscle is weak is actually strengthening already strong muscles thus bulking up in an area where they already are strong and remaining weak in the area they wanted to address thus getting an awkward looking face.

I am not saying FE is a bad system, I think its great if you know what you are doing. But it demands very good technique, muscle knowledge and an ability to understand one's weakness and strengths.

I think it is necessary to learn to customise the work out and I could apply this to CFF too. I do think working out the mouth too much is very dangerous, the amount of times I've seen people write about monkey mouth!!! Nobody wants to return to the apes!

A further point is: I would never go to a gym and do all the machines at once, I customise my works out very specifically and periodically change them according to my needs. I believe we should all work out all the muscles in our bodies but according to how much each area needs it. I would never do lat isolation exercises, I find the compound movements I do address my lats and I only want them to be minimally addressed otherwise I'd look like a man!

Example D:
I have an amazingly strong upper body and so build muscle very fast, I even avoid doing hanging ab exercises too much -where I grip onto the overhead rack to keep myself in place- as my shoulders tend to bulk very fast. I never do shoulder isolation exercises, even after squatting and deadlifting my biceps, triceps and shoulders bulge like crazy and I get 'the vein'. This is why sometimes I even take a week off training my biceps and triceps because otherwise I get the man look and as I am petite it looks wrong. I never train my chest in isolation as I find other compound movements I do take care of it. Once again when I trained it in isolation even when I was benching weekly, I saw very fast how my breasts became square and hard, it looked terrible and did not benefit me.
On the other hand I work out my legs every week very hard, and preferably twice a week. I make sure I never skip my calves as they are the weakest link and tend to build so slowly (my training friend on the other hand never trains their calves, nor runs, nor does anything you'd expect to build calves and they have the biggest calves I've ever seen!). As a result of my highly customised work outs my legs look great but I always have to focus on my calves and targetting each muscle within the calf with different and varying exercises.

I can appreciate how all of this would apply to someone's face, some people have great cheek bones and should go easy on them perhaps, others may have a weak chin and need to consistently work on that. But no program that I've seen really addresses this issue and of course it is hard for a program to do that, as no one knows what needs someone else will have, unless they train them.

This brings me to my next point: Training is vital for most resistance exercise.

I know exactly what I am doing in the gym and even though I am not a trainer, I could do a better job than many whom I see giving lessons with bad, horrible form! There are many bad trainers who do not understand form nor muscle relation properly. Because I know what I'm doing I reap great benefits but I see plenty of people not get very good results when they do things with bad form. I see people trained by trainers who get less good results than I.

I am lucky that I was trained by a group of amazing guys who shouted at me until my form was perfect and who noted all my weaknesses and made me address them and who explained in detail how to work out correctly, target muscles with perfect form -these are key aspects and without knowing the how, the why and where it is hard to succeed.
I would not advise anyone to go to the gym and start squatting with no idea of what they are doing. They will likely cause themselves harm unless they are doing only the most simple of movements. I've even see people run incorrectly, with rounded shoulders, a hunched neck...

I think training is a key component for FE and I have contacted Loli on FE asking her for lessons as not only do I speak decent Spanish Smile

but she is the only trainer who I trust because I have witnessed how in-depth her knowledge is and how good she is at explaining her point even if English is not her first language. She consistently posts diagrams, videos show what a movement should be, explanations which explain exactly how to locate a muscle, which way to pull it, where the contraction should be, why we need to focus on some muscles more than others because of their relationship. She said something about being careful of not overworking buccs and triangularis as if they are too strong they can pull on zyg- my understanding may be iffy here but I understand she has a very clear conception of muscle relationship which is essential to working out. Her explanations are amazing and she clearly knows what she is doing. The results are also visible in her face.

I honestly would only trust someone that can explain to me in simple but detailed terms.
I have seen how Loli spends time adjusting not only her work outs but those of her clients and how her muscle generator program device thingy seems to enable her to get a view of the dynamic nature of muscle movement.
I am a quick learner but I need someone to explain to me in detail, I also need someone I trust, who inspires me. I was a great athlete when competing and my results were not only through hard work but great coaching and a coach who inspired me and who I believed in.

If Loli can train me and the price is reasonable, I will definitely try FE as I do think it's a great program if you know what you are doing and I am sure with the right guidance I could get amazing results.

However I am pretty happy with my face barring a few lines and so for the moment I need to take measures to make sure I enhance what I have but also address my weaknesses, I'm sure an easy to use program like CFF can address those issues without me breaking my back over how to isolate a muscle. Most of all, I need to have the tools to easily do that, with support and guidance through that process.

free skin care · Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:26 pm

Virginia, I believe that you made a lot of valid points in your previous posts. Just to let you know, you're not the only one who had problems. I'm about your age and I too had some negative effects when using FE for less than half a year. My face became gaunt and lean and my mouth corners became more pronounced. And even after a year off the program I still do not look like I did before. I want to clearly state that I'm not a competitor, I do not own any face program and I'm only expressing my own experiences. I know that many people here had many positive results when using this program and I'm truly happy for them. I still believe in all that face exercises claim they do, and I plan to embark on them once again some time in the future once I find time to research them a bit more.

VirginiaWhite wrote:

Also seeing all of this going on is very scary to a newbie like me because honestly I just want advice and guidance, not people accusing nor fighting around me or because of me, or telling me bad things about other people. It makes me feel quite sad to be quite honest and that is not good for anyone's business. After reading all of this, both camps criticizing each other, I sometimes feel I should just avoid face exercising and try gadgets or fillers for my face but this is not what I really want!

I haven't been on this forum for very long and I read more than I post, but I don't understand why do face exercises always entice such heated discussions and various accusations? There are number of posts about CP uglies, reactions to RetinA, discussions about potentially harmful effects of many products (including sunscreen Smile

), however, in none of these threads did I find such unpleasant exchanges as when it comes to face exercises?! But maybe I'm missing something?!?

VirginiaWhite wrote:

If Loli can train me and the price is reasonable, I will definitely try FE as I do think it's a great program if you know what you are doing and I am sure with the right guidance I could get amazing results.

I have to strongly agree with you on this! Loli's advices and warm and encouraging messages are worth more than the price of the program itself IMO! She's truly unbelievably knowledgeable and caring person who takes time and effort to illustrate all the points she's trying to make.

Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:46 pm

ClaudiaFE wrote:

Such passion.

Ah, well, I'm very blunt when voicing my opinion. Especially when programs have such ardently vocal fans - I expect great things. FE didn't deliver, and that's not even remotely your fault, but it does inspire me to speak candidly about that disappointment in the interest of bringing a little balance to the conversation. I can respect and appreciate that others will (and already do) love FE and feel that it is the most effective program for their particular anatomy. More power to them.

ClaudiaFE wrote:

I imagine you took advantage of our refund policy, and returned the product for a complete refund. If not, perhaps you still have time. I find most seasoned Internet shoppers and forum visitors such as yourself are keenly aware of return policies.

A friend let me borrow her copy of the book. I'd fully intended to purchase the kit if I decided I liked FE.

ClaudiaFE wrote:

Regardless, I have to ask, if you were so pleased with what you were used to. A perky boost and a healthy glow... why on earth would you spend $125.00 to reinvent the wheel that was working quite well for you?

Because curiosity and an innate desire to experiment is in my blood. I can't resist an opportunity to try the product everyone is raving about. Additionally, I desire confirmation that, yes, I am on the right track and don't need to look elsewhere. How can I know that if I don't experiment? I'm sure these impetuses aren't unique to my personal psychology; advertising companies know how to exploit these weaknesses quite well.

ClaudiaFE wrote:

Just for the record there are over 30 exercises one can do for their body. And that's just weight lifting.

I'm aware, but I don't need nearly that many for a comprehensive work-out. Of course, I'm not a bodybuilder and don't need to continually add variations for maximum muscle development.

ClaudiaFE wrote:

My point with regard to the above bodywork is that only a complete program would offer you a way to hit all of your facial muscles from various angles. There is NO SUCH THING as one size fits all. But like all types of workouts, basics are always taught first. With tweaking left to be determined based on results.

I don't disagree that a comprehensive program is a necessity. I'm personally a fan of multi-tasking exercises, and since so many facial muscles are interconnected, it's not unrealistic to work a complete program with -20 exercises. Now, I accidently discovered an exercise that builds the entire chin in one fell swoop - which I no longer do because I'm thrilled I've lost fullness there - so I guarantee that it isn't necessary to devise an exercise for every singular muscle in order to increase build in a specific region. I respect any person who wants a program that targets every singular muscle, however. I don't see why different faces can't respond best to different programs.

ClaudiaFE wrote:

Voluntary muscle control is HARD!

This is probably going to sound arrogant...I don't mean to be...I actually don't find it hard at all. I'm one of the lucky few, I guess, who has always excelled at isolating/controlling muscles. Additionally, my muscles seem to be more sensitive than normal (erm, thank you, Fibromyalgia?), and so I know immediately if I've targeted the correct ones. I really, really, *really* feel it. Plus, it swells. I can perform a few repetitions, feel the strain immediately, run to the mirror and identify swelling in the area I've just worked. My face gives me instantaneous feedback.

I am just a freak of nature that way, but the upside is that it's ludicrously easy to tweak my program.

ClaudiaFE wrote:

For example, Nanella, I'd have had a handful of suggestions with regards to your 2 day, all out test run. But was not asked best as I can tell.

I appreciate the desire to provide assistance, and I think the availability of experienced trainers is an unparalleled, invaluable benefit of doing FE. If I'd taken to the program, I'm sure I would have made good use of this perk. I am positive, however, that I was doing your exercises correctly. It's the stretching that got me. It gets me every time. I had to quit doing Ageless because of how noxious it is for my skin/musculature.

Happy flexing Smile

free skin care · Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:17 pm

VirginiaWolf,

The reason why you have stirred up some bitter feelings between FlexEffect and CFF is because of the history between Nonie and FlexEffect.

Let me explain a few things (not just to you but to the couple of others who were wondering), in the hopes that it may help explain things.

You called Deb's face "bulky" in a negative way. The only person that really used that term on EDS in the past was Nonie, hence my question to you. Virtually everyone else uses the term "overbuild".

And Nonie and Deb are not that keen on each other, but I'll not go into that, other than you should know that Nonie thinks FlexEffect ruined her face totally and completely (hence her story on the CFF website), and Deb thinks that Nonie has been on a single-woman mission to bring down FlexEffect for the past few years and promote CFF instead...hence the stirred pot. It's apparently a very sensitive situation on both sides of the fence.

So my suggestion is not to bring it up. I think if everyone can respect that and respect that everyone has different experiences, the discussion will improve.

The second suggestion is why not ask the trainers for advice or post on the FE forum right now? I'm not saying you have to like the program, but it would seem wise to ask for help when you need help figuring out what exactly is the problem. You're on the forum anyways, right? Why purposefully hold yourself back from asking for help?...it doesn't make sense, which is why Claudia was concerned, and Sean jumped on, too.

Finally, to answer your questions at the end of your post...

Yes, the punchline is that there are a handful or two of people who hate it, but the majority of people either like it and use, use some of the exercises and/or rotate it with other programs, or just preferred something else more but have no strong feelings either way. Sorry, I can't quantify it any better than that. These things are hard to quantify, and people have tried to in the past but without success.

If you use the search function, I'm sure you can find them. Or you're welcome to PM me and I'll try to direct you.

Hope this helps.

free skin care · Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:30 pm

Nanella wrote:

...A friend let me borrow her copy of the book. I'd fully intended to purchase the kit if I decided I liked FE.

Oh, that makes sense. She should have loaned you the DVD. You would have had an easier time following. We had rec'd many complaints in the edition prior because our DVD was based off the old technology of Video and limited space.

Obviously, your friend liked the program well enough to recommend it to you.

Nanella wrote:

so I guarantee that it isn't necessary to devise an exercise for every singular muscle in order to increase build in a specific region. I respect any person who wants a program that {argets every singular muscle, however. I don't see why different faces can't respond best to different programs.

I'd like to add some clarification here. It may not be necessary for every single person to utilize every exercise offered within the program. That is true. But is infact quite necessary for us to devise a program that covers the gammet of exercises. So, we're talking about 2 different things here. When we say we offer a complete program we mean we offer a way to hit the muscles from all angles. And we do recommend that you learn those. However, as you evaluate, and if you're a quick learner or quick in self observation, then you realize what you can cut out. The shift from 2nd edition to 3rd edition is that FE is now more of a toolbox. I find most people can get the job done when they have all tools available to them. Does not mean they HAVE to use every single tool. So for example another "program" may offer 15-20 exercises, and may be for a "different" face. But shouldn't be for just one kind of face. Because no one face is like the other no "program" that doesn't target from all angles can serve more than one specific type of face. I'm tired. Does that make sense?

I guess to clarify, If I buy a bodybuilding book I would expect it to show me how to hit my biceps from a variety of angles. And then as I tried each variety, and observed my response, I'd pick how I like to hit that muscle. Without the variety, I easily don't learn all the ways to hit it.

Nanella wrote:

(erm, thank you, Fibromyalgia?), and so I know immediately if I've targeted the correct ones. I really, really, *really* feel it. Plus, it swells. I can perform a few repetitions, feel the strain immediately, run to the mirror and identify swelling in the area I've just worked. My face gives me instantaneous feedback.

Ok, well this is why you responded so negatively. You have an autoimmune disease that is utterly cruel by my obseration. And while I can appreciate excellent self awareness (VERY MUCH) the problem actually lies within your health. Not with the program. Yes, it would easily be too much for you. A person whose immune system is compromised in such a fashion has to go about things in a very different fashion. Your introduction would have needed to be much more gradual. Perhaps never getting to the extreme you hear some flexers going to.

One of my dearest friends suffers from this disease. It's awful. I've been especially thrilled to have gotten her on a supplement that has allowed her to get more aggressive in her workouts (body!), and ditch over $200.00 a month in RX's. I know how hard that damn problem can be.

Wishing you the best. It sounds like you've managed to find something that doesn't work the tissues so aggressively that you can't recover. This is excellent for those that can't do the heavy work. For those that can, and this is why you hear from the excited Flexers... they are able to take their face to the next level. But then they aren't worried about auto immune either.

Take care... and work that face as best you can!

PS. I like bluntness, it makes for an easier conversation!

free skin care · Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:12 pm

VirginiaWhite wrote:

If Loli can train me and the price is reasonable, I will definitely try FE as I do think it's a great program if you know what you are doing and I am sure with the right guidance I could get amazing results.

I’m so sorry. I misunderstood your first post. You have to admit someone coming on to EDS forum for guidance in FlexEffect training when they have access to a FlexEffect Training WorkShop just didn’t make sense. It really didn’t sound like you had any idea about the training workshop. So naturally I thought, with the history on this forum... here we go again. I totally agree the bickering between training authors is so counter productive and downright tiresome. I too wish it would stop. But hey, you have to admit these last few months have really been nice.

You are so right; Loli is an absolute Doll as is Cathy and Sean. I am so blessed to have such excellent Certified Trainers to assist Flexers when they need it. Seriously, who wouldn’t want free assistance (with their so many questions) and guidance, especially in the first few months or so. I love the fact that each one of my trainers bring so much to the table, each having their own expertise. I’m also thrilled to see they are also teaching on skype.

Yes, I’ll admit the FlexEffect book is extremely informative (275 pages) and for some opening the book for the first time might find it a bit intimidating (far more info than they were expecting) But, I have learned over the years ALL the material found in the book will be much appreciated by those who really want a true understanding of Facialbuilding after they have formed a solid foundation in their training.

By your description of Carolyn’s Facial Fitness it is obvious that you have purchased her program as well, so, you should have no problem getting as much as possible out of facial training. You said you felt like you were being pulled from one program to another and it was somewhat stressing you out. Please don’t think for one minute Carolyn or I would ever consider a tug of war with you or any client for that matter. It’s simply enough for us to hear just plain satisfied trainers in any program... serves our business well.

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