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Interview with Dr. Baumann
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7Destiny
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Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:38 am      Reply with quote
http://www.futurederm.com/2012/06/29/futurederms-exclusive-interview-with-dr-leslie-baumann-m-d/
Keliu
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Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:44 am      Reply with quote
This is rather an interesting comment:

Quote:
Delivery systems – yes, these are important too, as are brands. I know what brands do the best clinical testing. Many active ingredients that are used as “buzz words” in skin care cannot penetrate the skin, leaving them useless, for instance: Oxygen, Stem Cells, Hyaluronic Acid and Peptides.
http://www.futurederm.com/2012/06/29/futurederms-exclusive-interview-with-dr-leslie-baumann-m-d/


I've never heard of Hyaluronic Acid being unable to penetrate the skin.

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DarkMoon
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Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:22 am      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
This is rather an interesting comment:

Quote:
Delivery systems – yes, these are important too, as are brands. I know what brands do the best clinical testing. Many active ingredients that are used as “buzz words” in skin care cannot penetrate the skin, leaving them useless, for instance: Oxygen, Stem Cells, Hyaluronic Acid and Peptides.
http://www.futurederm.com/2012/06/29/futurederms-exclusive-interview-with-dr-leslie-baumann-m-d/


I've never heard of Hyaluronic Acid being unable to penetrate the skin.


That depends on the "molecular weight"?

2/ Much of the buzz around hyaluronic acid centres on its ability to rebuild the skin matrix – to plump out those spaces in our sponge. But can it actually penetrate that deeply? Hyaluronic acid molecules vary in size. As large molecules (those with a molecular weight over, say, 20,000 Daltons) cannot effectively penetrate the skin, a product that uses large molecule hyaluronic acid may be of limited value in replenishing dermal hyaluronic acid. In order for hyaluronic acid to penetrate the skin the molecule must be micronised, or chopped into fragments.

http://howto.yellow.co.nz/fashion-and-beauty/appearance-enhancement/hyaluronic-acid-serums-and-moisturisers-%E2%80%93-the-latest-beauty-buzz/

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Keliu
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Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:48 am      Reply with quote
Well that doesn't say much for our DIY Hyaluronic Acid concoctions does it! But maybe this is why DrP thinks that HA is not good for the skin because of it keeping the surface wet - in that it's not penetrating.

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Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:06 am      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
Well that doesn't say much for our DIY Hyaluronic Acid concoctions does it! But maybe this is why DrP thinks that HA is not good for the skin because of it keeping the surface wet - in that it's not penetrating.


Just need to purchase the right type, I realize the MW is different however these are both sellers?:

Hyaluronic Acid SLMW
CAS No. 9067-32-7

Hyaluronic Acid SLMW is our newest hyaluronic acid offering. High molecular weight hyaluronic acid is enzimatically cut up to produce a super low molecular weight (SLMW) hyaluronic acid of less than 50,000 daltons. This very low molecular weight reduces its viscosity in water, but improves its ability to penetrate the upper layers of the skin.

Hyaluronic Acid (HA) is a polysaccharide and a compound that occurs naturally in every tissue of the body, with the highest concentrations occurring in tissues such as skin, cartilage and eyes. Providing protection to cell structures, HA is the natural gel between skin cells that serves as a water reservoir for the cells. As we age, skin loses hyaluronic acid and the ability to hold sufficient water in this reservoir. Feeding new hyaluronic acid to skin may help hydrate skin's intercellular reservoir, raising skin's moisture level, and smoothing down age lines.

Topically, Hyaluronic Acid has water storing properties, making it an ideal swelling agent and lubricant, enabling its incorporation into cosmetics leading to a perceptible and visible improvement of skin condition. In use, it forms a thin transparent visco elastic surface film that helps to preserve the characteristics of youthful and healthy skin: suppleness, elasticity and tone.

1 gram of Hyaluronic Acid Powder will make 100 grams (3.53 ounces) of a 1% solution.


Formulation Guidelines

Hyaluronic Acid SLMW has a tendency to clump when added to water, making it difficult to hydrate evenly. It can be pre-mixed with glycerin prior to adding water -- this will prevent agglomeration and create a smooth mixture. If you do not have glycerin as a part of your formulation, we recommend using a high shear mixer (stick blender) to create a vortex in your water phase and adding the hyaluronic acid to this with thorough mixing.
Unlike regular Hyaluronic Acid, Hyaluronic Acid SLMW will not form a viscous gel. If you want a viscous gel, consider combining both types in your formulation.
Recommended Usage Rate: 0.01-1%
Appearance: White powder
Source: Biotechnology (bacterial fermentation)
Molecular Weight (standard): <50,000 Daltons
Solubility: Soluble in water
Storage: Store in cool, dry place in original container away from light and moisture, do not refrigerate or freeze powder
Shelf life: Two years, properly stored.

INCI: Sodium Hyaluronate

http://www.lotioncrafter.com/hyaluronic-acid-slmw.html

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bethany
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Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:22 am      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
This is rather an interesting comment:

Quote:
Delivery systems – yes, these are important too, as are brands. I know what brands do the best clinical testing. Many active ingredients that are used as “buzz words” in skin care cannot penetrate the skin, leaving them useless, for instance: Oxygen, Stem Cells, Hyaluronic Acid and Peptides.
http://www.futurederm.com/2012/06/29/futurederms-exclusive-interview-with-dr-leslie-baumann-m-d/


I've never heard of Hyaluronic Acid being unable to penetrate the skin.


I am surprised no one commented on the stem cells being unable to penetrate the skin! That is a bit alarming, considering how much the stem cell products cost.

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10Sylvia5
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Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:25 am      Reply with quote
bethany, nice one also how about the peptides too Question

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Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:31 am      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
Keliu wrote:
This is rather an interesting comment:

Quote:
Delivery systems – yes, these are important too, as are brands. I know what brands do the best clinical testing. Many active ingredients that are used as “buzz words” in skin care cannot penetrate the skin, leaving them useless, for instance: Oxygen, Stem Cells, Hyaluronic Acid and Peptides.
http://www.futurederm.com/2012/06/29/futurederms-exclusive-interview-with-dr-leslie-baumann-m-d/


I've never heard of Hyaluronic Acid being unable to penetrate the skin.


I am surprised no one commented on the stem cells being unable to penetrate the skin! That is a bit alarming, considering how much the stem cell products cost.


which stem cells tho, are we talking "the expensive ones" or are they talking, apple, treebark, whatnot, that is what is in most skincare products. And isn't penetration the big bad wolf in the room all the time Confused
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Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:37 am      Reply with quote
10Sylvia5 wrote:
bethany, nice one also how about the peptides too Question


I know...I am thinking wasted $$$ at the moment!

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Barefootgirl
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Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:40 am      Reply with quote
Product penetration has always been one of the big bugaboos surrounding topicals. Many of us have been writing about this issue here on the forum for years (no offense) and most recently DrJ (again, no offense).

Penetration issues are why LAA formulations need to be precise, why HA is practically useless when it sits on top of the skin (does great things when injected, lol). I was wondering how long until someone picked up on Baumman's comments on the peptides and stem cells.

This is why I am a fan of rolling, both deep and shallow...this is why I would love to find an Ionzyme-like device to use at home.

etc. etc.

BFG
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Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:40 am      Reply with quote
Tiny wrote:
bethany wrote:
I am surprised no one commented on the stem cells being unable to penetrate the skin! That is a bit alarming, considering how much the stem cell products cost.


which stem cells tho, are we talking "the expensive ones" or are they talking, apple, treebark, whatnot, that is what is in most skincare products. And isn't penetration the big bad wolf in the room all the time Confused


I have no idea on which type of stem cells, but delivery systems are always something that needs to be considered when purchasing products.

I posted a question to Dr. J on the other forum in hopes that he can help shed some light on this, and I am going to visit Dr. B's website to see if she has any other info on this.

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Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:42 am      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
Tiny wrote:
bethany wrote:
I am surprised no one commented on the stem cells being unable to penetrate the skin! That is a bit alarming, considering how much the stem cell products cost.


which stem cells tho, are we talking "the expensive ones" or are they talking, apple, treebark, whatnot, that is what is in most skincare products. And isn't penetration the big bad wolf in the room all the time Confused


I have no idea on which type of stem cells, but delivery systems are always something that needs to be considered when purchasing products.

I posted a question to Dr. J on the other forum in hopes that he can help shed some light on this, and I am going to visit Dr. B's website to see if she has any other info on this.


I agree, I think thats why so many of us, use exfoliations, rollers, ect, anything to aide in this process! And then again results, if one is seeing results, surely something is getting in.
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Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:47 am      Reply with quote
This is why soy, while found effective, needs to be in the form of liposomal soy extracts. The liposomes help the soy penetrate (that's my unscientific explanation).

This is *key*

BFG
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Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:57 am      Reply with quote
Tiny wrote:
I agree, I think thats why so many of us, use exfoliations, rollers, ect, anything to aide in this process! And then again results, if one is seeing results, surely something is getting in.


Or the other methods or actives that do penetrate are causing the results

I sure wish I could take advantage of daily penetration rolling, but I am red for 2 days after using a .2mm. Sad I guess I had better try a little harder to acclimate my skin to daily rolling.

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Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:58 am      Reply with quote
I guess the results come from the small amount of actives that Do get in. I think.

Then yes we force more in with all our gadgets and
needling.

The skin book that Kassy reccommended (just skimmed it) talks a huge amount about taking supplements internally the emphsys (sorry tired and spelling, gone up the creek)seeming that it is more important than applied topically.

At least to my tired and addled brain Rolling Eyes

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10Sylvia5
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Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:01 am      Reply with quote
got there before me Bethany Laughing

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Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:09 am      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
Tiny wrote:
I agree, I think thats why so many of us, use exfoliations, rollers, ect, anything to aide in this process! And then again results, if one is seeing results, surely something is getting in.


Or the other methods or actives that do penetrate are causing the results

I sure wish I could take advantage of daily penetration rolling, but I am red for 2 days after using a .2mm. Sad I guess I had better try a little harder to acclimate my skin to daily rolling.



I buy other methods are helping the penetration and therefore results, I don't buy other methods alone create the results, only because, other methods I use, do NOT moisturise my skin at all, and I need moisture.
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Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:35 am      Reply with quote
me too, for the first time that I can remember, I dont have dry skin on my cheeks. THats pretty good for my, and Im not reacting to anything and I would and did before. Something is happening to my skin and it is a definite improvement Exclamation

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Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:35 am      Reply with quote
Aren't most of the stem cell products formulated with nanoliposomes to aid in penetration?
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Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:06 am      Reply with quote
Tiny wrote:
I buy other methods are helping the penetration and therefore results, I don't buy other methods alone create the results, only because, other methods I use, do NOT moisturise my skin at all, and I need moisture.


Tiny, I wonder if your skin barrier has been compromised at all and that is why you need moisture? I didn't realize that most moisturizers could actually overwet your skin barrier and cause dehydration, which then cause you to slap on more moisturizes...which basically creates a vicious circle that is bad for your skin and good for the moisturizer sellers.

I read a ton about in Dr. Obagai's dermatolgy text book, and Dr. Pickart has talked about that extensively as well. I stopped using any moisturizers that did focus on skin barrier repair, and was able to actually stop using them on a daily basis which was pretty shocking to me since I used to feel that I really needed them. Dr. H from 302 Skincare had also said that anytime we do any kind of exfoliating treatment that we really needed to use a product designed to repair the skin barrier to avoid dehydration.

Just something to think about, especially since you are using the PMD. However, if Reluma has ingredients that repair the skin barrier (I have no idea), that makes the PMD and RL an even better combo when used together.

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Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:07 am      Reply with quote
brierrose wrote:
Aren't most of the stem cell products formulated with nanoliposomes to aid in penetration?


I guess the question would be how well they work!

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Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:08 am      Reply with quote
10Sylvia5 wrote:
me too, for the first time that I can remember, I dont have dry skin on my cheeks. THats pretty good for my, and Im not reacting to anything and I would and did before. Something is happening to my skin and it is a definite improvement Exclamation


Yay! Results are an awesome thing!

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Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:13 am      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
Tiny wrote:
I buy other methods are helping the penetration and therefore results, I don't buy other methods alone create the results, only because, other methods I use, do NOT moisturise my skin at all, and I need moisture.


Tiny, I wonder if your skin barrier has been compromised at all and that is why you need moisture? I didn't realize that most moisturizers could actually overwet your skin barrier and cause dehydration, which then cause you to slap on more moisturizes...which basically creates a vicious circle that is bad for your skin and good for the moisturizer sellers.

I read a ton about in Dr. Obagai's dermatolgy text book, and Dr. Pickart has talked about that extensively as well. I stopped using any moisturizers that did focus on skin barrier repair, and was able to actually stop using them on a daily basis which was pretty shocking to me since I used to feel that I really needed them. Dr. H from 302 Skincare had also said that anytime we do any kind of exfoliating treatment that we really needed to use a product designed to repair the skin barrier to avoid dehydration.

Just something to think about, especially since you are using the PMD. However, if Reluma has ingredients that repair the skin barrier (I have no idea), that makes the PMD and RL an even better combo when used together.



I have no idea, I've always uses moisturisers and have not until a this year used the PMD or any type of exfoliation, other than once in a blue and I mean blue moon, a scrub. I have what I consider very normal skin. I just believe in them, so I've always used them.

eta:

I am not using MORE now then before, so I don't really understand your assumption that I do.
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Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:19 am      Reply with quote
Tiny wrote:
I have no idea, I've always uses moisturisers and have not until a this year used the PMD or any type of exfoliation, other than once in a blue and I mean blue moon, a scrub. I have what I consider very normal skin. I just believe in them, so I've always used them.


If you can skip using a moisturizer daily and your skin doesn't feel dry, I think you are fine. Smile

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Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:21 am      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
Tiny wrote:
I have no idea, I've always uses moisturisers and have not until a this year used the PMD or any type of exfoliation, other than once in a blue and I mean blue moon, a scrub. I have what I consider very normal skin. I just believe in them, so I've always used them.


If you can skip using a moisturizer daily and your skin doesn't feel dry, I think you are fine. Smile


opps just added, while you were posting:

I am not using more cream now than I did before, not sure why you thought I was, but its same as always. I've used a cream since I was 13 years old and my grandmother taught me how to take care of my face!
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