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Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:15 pm  |
| packratmack wrote: |
| aprile wrote: |
Trigger - I am not really quite sure where you are coming from with this response. I am not at all insensitive to Hasnaa's experience. In fact, quite the opposite. At any rate, if you go to this site, you willl see others who were sensitive to microcurrent and experienced flashing lights and some even mentioned palpitations. http://www.theperformanceleader.com/nuface-review/ In any event, I don't believe that there is any evidence that proves microcurrent is harmful to the body to send out fire alarms. In fact, unless her doctor claimed this device turned up too high was the sole cause of her reaction, we still don't even know for sure if there was some other contributory factor. Someone could be deficient in certain minerals that could also cause extreme symptoms that most people are totally unaware of. Symptoms like muscle cramps, lump in the throat, unusual tiredness, extreme thirst, numbness and tingling in the extremities, migraines, seizures or even heart palpitations can be directly linked to magnesium deficiency. I did not read anywhere in Hasnaa's post the doctor's explanation of what he felt happened. Is it possible? Certainly. But, just as others have mentioned acne, migraines and flashing lights, etc., not everyone responds to things the same way. That was all I was saying ... so she could quite possibly be a more sensitive individual. But, imo unless you have conclusive evidence that the Pico actually caused Hasnaa's event to occur, we still don't really know for sure. You are also making accusations about the company urging people to "crank up the intensity" yet in their literature they mention to start out at 15 and then gradually increase the intensity. I did not read anywhere to go guns ablazing and start out at level 45 or anything. I think they recognize that everyone is indeed different... Some individuals are more sensitive and probably cannot tolerate higher levels, while others need more intensity to see any results. Anyway, to reiterate I am not saying that it's impossible that the event was related to the Pico intensity level being too high. But, I would think that if this were a common occurrence, the FDA would be cracking down on all microcurrent manufacturers. After all, electric stim units are sold online to consumers. Again, Hasnaa I'm sorry you had to experience something so scary as this, and I do hope that it never happens to you again and I wish you nothing but continued good health. Best, Aprile |
Great post Aprile. Wow, I had no idea about the heart palpitations. Mine races a little when I use the PICO. I really wonder if I should continue to use it. The info on magnesium deficiency is very interesting. I have been waking up with muscle cramps in my calves for the past two weeks. I just bought some magnesium, I better start taking it and see if it helps. |
Hi packratmack - Yes it's amazing how we can be deficient in certain vitamins and minerals and not know it. Most of the time, when we have a physical we don't even have our levels tested for essential vitamins and minerals. Many people are also deficient in Vitamin D and don't connect the symptoms. A friend of mine just told me she tested low in Vit. D. We live on the East Coast - New York area. Having said that, sometimes the bloodwork is not always accurate. Certainly, if the tissues are magnesium deficient, the bloodwork will not show that. Magnesium deficiency is much more common than you think due to the soil being depleted. Also, due to diet where many people are eating way too much calcium and taking calcium supplements, but lack sufficient magnesium. The best of form of magnesium to use to restore levels to normal is topical magnesium ... this is mostly due to the "move the mail" effect that Yubs mentioned. Lol. But, thankfully there is topical magnesium as well as flakes you put in the bath that work really well. There are a number of companies out there, but in the research I found the purest was from a company called Ancient Minerals. HTH, Aprile  |
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Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:18 pm |
| packratmack wrote: |
| Yubs wrote: |
packrat, please start slow with magnesium at first. It can really "move the mail" as my grandmother used to say. That is, it has an effect on the bowels. Milk of magnesia, anyone?
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Thank you for the warning Yubs.  Grandmas are the best, aren't they? |
I use the so called magnesium oil a couple of years ago n I ended up with swollen ankles... you may be fine, i am weird that way, there r quite a few things which give me swollen ankles.. |
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Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:19 pm |
| Yes Daler, suffice it to say that everyone responds differently to things. I think the more pure the form, the better. |
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Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:36 pm |
| aprile wrote: |
| Yes Daler, suffice it to say that everyone responds differently to things. I think the more pure the form, the better. |
very true! btw, I have used electric muscle stimulation, not MC though, I didnt experience any ill effects, as far as i know.. it was a strong current, i could see my muscles twitching, jerking n what not.. |
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Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:20 pm |
| packratmack wrote: |
| Hi Aprile, I was reading the comments on the website you mentioned. One of the posters said she was an RN and that it was ridiculous that anyone would say they see flashing lights and have heart palpitations when using such a weak microcurrent. Of course she was referring to the NuFace. I don't think that is as powerful as the PICO, is it? Anyway, I'm glad people are discussing the possible side effects of using the PICO. |
I only remember waking up at the ambulance once surrounded by 3 cute guys then at the ER
My husband told me I was making a crazy sound he thought I was pranking him then I started shaking and white foam coming out of my mouth. It was a 4am
He called 911 who told him what to do. I'm glad my kids didn't wake up( my husband asked the operator to ask the firefighter to turn off their alarm) and that I have insurance. I'm most glad my mother in law didn't have a heart attack as she was so scared.
Now by low I can't drive for 3 months. I also can't take baths or swim at the pool.
I'm having n MRI and EEG sometime soon (waiting for insurance approval)
But was it the microcurrent? YES it was |
_________________
38 years old , 10% glycolic night cream, argan oil, castor oil, masks. |
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Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:21 pm |
I have some mag oil and can't stand the feeling of it on my skin. Wish I could stand it because I've heard good things.
Another thing you can try is to help your bod uptake magnesium is warm/tepid (not hot) foot baths with mag oil or even Epsom salts. I've done those and while I can't prove anything about the mag uptake I can testify that they are very relaxing. And they do not move your mail.
Also, FWIW, I've been wondering for a little while now if well-mineralized tissues help with microcurrent conduction in the same way that being well hydrated does. Food for thought. |
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Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:33 pm |
| Yubs wrote: |
I have some mag oil and can't stand the feeling of it on my skin. Wish I could stand it because I've heard good things.
Another thing you can try is to help your bod uptake magnesium is warm/tepid (not hot) foot baths with mag oil or even Epsom salts. I've done those and while I can't prove anything about the mag uptake I can testify that they are very relaxing. And they do not move your mail.
Also, FWIW, I've been wondering for a little while now if well-mineralized tissues help with microcurrent conduction in the same way that being well hydrated does. Food for thought. |
Yes Yubs,
The brand I am using, Ancient Minerals also makes a lotion... It is well tolerated even by those with the most sensitive skin (which is me!) I hated the feel of magnesium gel and oil on my skin -- they actually made my skin feel like it was burning. The company also makes magnesium flakes for the bath which is great for remineralizing.. Epsom salts are good, but the magnesium flakes are even better to get your levels up quickly. And you are correct, you can do a foot bath or full tub bath. I think you might be onto something when you mentioned that perhaps well-mineralized tissues could help with microcurrent conduction. That makes perfect sense to me. Best, Aprile |
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Rainbird
New Member
 
Joined: 21 Mar 2013
Posts: 3
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Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:35 pm |
Hi Aprile
I agree, I have been using my Pico Toner for over 8 weeks now and am extremely pleased with the results. I also go 3 times a month for professional treatments in between. I have a history of migraines and the pico toner has helped me with them. |
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Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:36 pm |
| leela7 wrote: |
Haasna,
What did the medical people say about it after examining you for the seizure? Did they agree that the microcurrent was reason? I'm just curious if folks in medicine have seen this happen before?
Interestingly enough, my mother has macular degeneration and she sees a Naturopath who has had great success restoring eyesight by using microstimulation on the eyes. I know people also use current to stimulate healing of bones and tissue etc so, seems as if the potential for headaches and seizures would be documented?
Sorry if I'm stating the obvious...I know next to nothing about microstimulation...I'm just mulling things over. Especially since my Pico will be arriving any day now and when I ordered, I had no idea there would be any potential problems with it! |
First of all I got my machine before most of u did. About 2weeks before PQ received his. So no I didn't start at 45 but thank u for stating the obvious!
Second, the company did tell people to go higher and if I decide to sue then I'm sure eds won't mind giving me a copy of the thread.
I even called Patricia and she said to never go higher than 75 on your face. From the specs when u go over 25 it's way higher than what microcurrent should be so its not microcurrent anymore. But she told me no it's second generation microcurrent and I can go higher.
Even one of the posters said that the guy at neurotris told her to share we can up it if we're not seeing results and that we need to do 20min per side. If you read the thread then you know and I'm sure everyone remembers that.
Go ahead and enjoy your pico I'm giving a warning to the people who like me had side affects since they first started using it at low intensity.
One more thing I'm not stupid and I know how to read and how to start low. But like everyone else I told my self I could handle the headache and dizziness to see results. When I didn't see results and the company recommended upping the intensity then like everyone else I did that hoping to see a difference.
Now I am getting my refund. Thank u for sharing your experience! |
_________________
38 years old , 10% glycolic night cream, argan oil, castor oil, masks. |
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Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:55 pm |
| Oh my God Hasnna - If you experienced something so awful as you mentioned, then why on earth would you be coming back to the forum to post again so quickly? Again, I feel badly for you, but the last poster, Leela hardly said anything to provoke you to become this angered. Also, no-one accused you of using the device on level 45. I was merely pointing out that the manual states to start out low. Also, there's no way to determine how any one particular person will respond to higher levels. Good luck with your refund. Stay well, Aprile |
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Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:06 pm |
aprile, Hasnaa said in her original post that she raised it to 45. No one "accused" her of that.
Hasnaa, I feel bad for you, although glad you at least got to ride to the hospital with cute guys. I wish you well. |
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Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:09 pm |
| YES Yubs - there is no need for that here. I hope that Hasnaa gets her refund and feels better. I am sure she will. |
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Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:20 pm |
| aprile wrote: |
| Oh my God Hasnna - If you experienced something so awful as you mentioned, then why on earth would you be coming back to the forum to post again so quickly? Again, I feel badly for you, but the last poster, Leela hardly said anything to provoke you to become this angered. Also, no-one accused you of using the device on level 45. I was merely pointing out that the manual states to start out low. Also, there's no way to determine how any one particular person will respond to higher levels. Good luck with your refund. Stay well, Aprile |
First of all I apologize to Lela as I replied to her post by mistake.
Second this reply was meant to be for you not for her. U said the company didn't say to up the intensity, u said I started at 45. Go back to your post and reread |
_________________
38 years old , 10% glycolic night cream, argan oil, castor oil, masks. |
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Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:25 pm |
| Hasnaa wrote: |
| packratmack wrote: |
| Hi Aprile, I was reading the comments on the website you mentioned. One of the posters said she was an RN and that it was ridiculous that anyone would say they see flashing lights and have heart palpitations when using such a weak microcurrent. Of course she was referring to the NuFace. I don't think that is as powerful as the PICO, is it? Anyway, I'm glad people are discussing the possible side effects of using the PICO. |
I only remember waking up at the ambulance once surrounded by 3 cute guys then at the ER
My husband told me I was making a crazy sound he thought I was pranking him then I started shaking and white foam coming out of my mouth. It was a 4am
He called 911 who told him what to do. I'm glad my kids didn't wake up( my husband asked the operator to ask the firefighter to turn off their alarm) and that I have insurance. I'm most glad my mother in law didn't have a heart attack as she was so scared.
Now by low I can't drive for 3 months. I also can't take baths or swim at the pool.
I'm having n MRI and EEG sometime soon (waiting for insurance approval)
But was it the microcurrent? YES it was |
This reply was for cookieD's post. Sorry for the confusion. |
_________________
38 years old , 10% glycolic night cream, argan oil, castor oil, masks. |
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Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:33 pm |
| aprile wrote: |
| Oh my God Hasnna - If you experienced something so awful as you mentioned, then why on earth would you be coming back to the forum to post again so quickly? Again, I feel badly for you, but the last poster, Leela hardly said anything to provoke you to become this angered. Also, no-one accused you of using the device on level 45. I was merely pointing out that the manual states to start out low. Also, there's no way to determine how any one particular person will respond to higher levels. Good luck with your refund. Stay well, Aprile |
I'm back because it's a seizure not a surgery. it doesn't require me to stay in bed. when it's done it's done! I'm sure u can google what seizures r. Also I'm not here telling my story do u can feel bad for me. Again I'm giving a warning to everyone with side affects not to raise their intensity. |
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38 years old , 10% glycolic night cream, argan oil, castor oil, masks. |
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Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:38 pm |
| Hasnaa wrote: |
| aprile wrote: |
| Oh my God Hasnna - If you experienced something so awful as you mentioned, then why on earth would you be coming back to the forum to post again so quickly? Again, I feel badly for you, but the last poster, Leela hardly said anything to provoke you to become this angered. Also, no-one accused you of using the device on level 45. I was merely pointing out that the manual states to start out low. Also, there's no way to determine how any one particular person will respond to higher levels. Good luck with your refund. Stay well, Aprile |
First of all I apologize to Lela as I replied to her post by mistake.
Second this reply was meant to be for you not for her. U said the company didn't say to up the intensity, u said I started at 45. Go back to your post and reread |
No Hasnaa - I was speaking to Trigger about the manual that comes with the Pico. Here is my quote to Trigger:
"You are also making accusations about the company urging people to "crank up the intensity" yet in their literature they mention to start out at 15 and then gradually increase the intensity. I did not read anywhere to go guns ablazing and start out at level 45 or anything." So Hasnaa you are inferring from what I wrote that you used it on Level 45. I would have no way of knowing what level you used it on, nor would I comment on that. I was merely pointing out to Trigger that the manual states to start out low... But, perhaps you could clarify for us since you are still posting on this forum, exactly what intensity level you used the device on prior to your experience? Again, I realize that everyone reacts differently and I would say that we all need to experiment to find our own comfort level. Best, Aprile |
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Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:26 am |
I remember quite clearly that someone posted that Neutrotis had recommended that if you weren't seeing results to increase intensity to 45. That's why I went up to that amount and that is when my headaches started.
ALso, what's this business that if the setting is too high, it's not microcurrent? Plus I still don't know what type of current P2 uses.
Also flashing lights are well known to cause epileptic fits in some people (hence the warnings before some TV programmes. I do not think that microcurrent should be causing flashing lights and I have never heard with this type of warning associated with it before. |
_________________
Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:58 am |
Keliu, it's flashing lights *outside* the body that cause seizures. Seizures can be caused by lights when the light stimulus from *outside* the body gets too intense for the nervous system to handle.
I get little flickering lights (which are like the flashes of light you see when you close your eyes after being in bright sunlight) in my eyes with both BI and Pico. From what I've read it's pretty common. However, I have never experienced the "haze" you mention you et. How do we know that my "flickering lights" are necessarily more ominous a symptom than your "haze"? It would be quite a stretch to insist that your symptom is benign and mine isn't, since neither of us know for sure and you've never been inside my skin, don't you think?
Further, while I am extremely sorry what happened to Hasnaa, we really don't need to be pushing the dishonest meme that seems to be forming about "microcurrent is dangerous". It is contraindicated in some conditions but for people with none of the known contraindications it is typically not dangerous.
Further, it's not Pico's fault that Hasnaa had a seizure, regardless of what was said about intensity where or in what thread. Given that everybody else was having mild side effects if any, even with levels way up, neither she nor Neurotris had any way of knowing what might happen. Sometimes you have to do a thing to find out it doesn't agree with you. And so far as we know, she's the only one who has had a seizure. I myself have had the thing up to 55, although I keep it on about 35 now because it's not comfortable for me going higher, and I listen to what my body tells me instead of pushing ahead against all odds.
Bottom line is that microcurrent is not for everyone, in the same way that seafood is not for everyone. My uncle gets an anaphylactic reaction from eating seafood, so serious that he has been hospitalized. Does that mean shrimp and other seafood is dangerous and no one else should eat it? No. It just means that HE should not eat seafood. He used to be able to eat it but one day, for some unknown reason, he developed a reaction. It was quite a shock to both him and my aunt. But should we sue the oceans or the restaurant for not warning him he might have a reaction and he shouldn't eat shrimp?
Again, I am really sorry for what happened to you, Hasnaa, and I hope you don't see this post as trivializing your harrowing experience.
But, as I said, we really should put to bed the dishonest notion that microcurrent is dangerous and that it doesn't work. Pictures prove it does work. And it's not dangerous for the vast majority of people. Like seafood, it's only dangerous for an unfortunate minority. |
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Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:40 am |
| I think the crux of the matter here is that we are all adults and need to take responsibility for our own actions. By saying this, in no way am I trivializing Hasnaa's experience because I imagine it was pretty scary. However, personally if I were experiencing symptoms every time I used the Pico, I would not be turning the unit up regardless of who told me it would give me better results. Short of an interrogation, we don't really know who recommended this to Hasnaa or how that conversation went. I agree with Yubs, it's unfortunate but the only way we will know if we are sensitive to something, is to try it. However, sometimes things can change in the body, and now we are suddenly allergic to fish when we never were before. This can happen with anything. Aprile |
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Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:01 am |
I don't fully understand this article - but I suspect it is significant - particularily the middle paragraph on the last page
http://www.depressiontreatmentnow.com/eeg_spectrum.pdf |
_________________
AALS since 6/1/12. Oralift since 15/1/12. FlexEffect since April 2011, no change so switched to Ageless Feb 2012. |
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Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:03 am |
Keliu said:
| Quote: |
| ALso, what's this business that if the setting is too high, it's not microcurrent? |
The current/power has to stay below 1000 microamps or it's not micro any more. It passes into milliamps. Other devices likes TENS units use milliamps. I believe 500 microamps is the commonly accepted current to optimally form collagen, and for lift. But whether or not your tissues are getting the optimal current depends a lot upon the resistance of whatever your delivery medium is (gloves v wands, etc.) and the conductivity of your tissues (hydration levels, possibly mineral levels, density of fat in the area, etc.). Not the expert, though. Maybe somebody else will chime in. |
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Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:44 am |
| Hasnaa wrote: |
| I'm giving a warning to everyone with side affects not to raise their intensity. |
Thanks Hasnaa. I definitely and fully agree that when something doesnt agree with your system.. DONT DO MORE OF IT!!
My son had extreme hives and vomiting when he ate sourcream and I never gave it to him again. |
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Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:00 pm |
| just reading all this. I guess its different with everyone, because I have been keeping it at 85 or 90(but with no glove liners) and having no ill effects at all |
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42, starting facial exercise, vip total face machine, sue vit c , retina, had peels, botox, fat injection, very good skin texture but fine lines around eyes |
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Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:11 pm |
| miracleskin29 wrote: |
| just reading all this. I guess its different with everyone, because I have been keeping it at 85 or 90(but with no glove liners) and having no ill effects at all |
What kind of results are you seeing using these high settings? Thanks, Doodles |
_________________
48 years old. Very acne prone. Staples: Retin-A/Tazorac and C serum. |
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Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:16 pm |
| Yubs wrote: |
I have some mag oil and can't stand the feeling of it on my skin. Wish I could stand it because I've heard good things.
Another thing you can try is to help your bod uptake magnesium is warm/tepid (not hot) foot baths with mag oil or even Epsom salts. I've done those and while I can't prove anything about the mag uptake I can testify that they are very relaxing. And they do not move your mail.
Also, FWIW, I've been wondering for a little while now if well-mineralized tissues help with microcurrent conduction in the same way that being well hydrated does. Food for thought. |
I agree Yubs - I am convinced that well mineralized tissues are helpful with many things - microcurrent among them. There is a conductivity balance involved. I am into what I call realistic supplementation. I have always used minerals of some form (accupuncturist/chinese doc recommended) (I also use magnesium oil - thanks to Aprile) in addition to others (also take msm). I also believe acidosis in the body is the primary cause of many diseases and alkalynizing oneself will help maximize all other efforts.
Just a note: regarding what Hasnaa (SP?) has reported.. Thats very serious and I am sure the Pico folks are checking it out thoroughly and reviewing all documentation related to it. Obviously there is a refund involved but I would expect even without insurance Neurotris would cover your expenses if the Pico was proven responsible.
Such a sad coincidence |
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Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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