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How to identify the problem, i.e., collagen, muscle tone etc

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Storm
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Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:35 am      Reply with quote
Hi all

I've been thinking of investing in some kind of gadget, and / or facial exercise program, and was originally looking at the Nuface or Tua Viso. It all seemed fairly straightforward, but the more I've researched the different devices and programs available, the more confused I'm getting. Confused

As far as I can gather, there are LED machines to increase collagen and tighten skin; microcurrent machines for muscle tone; facial exercises for muscle building and tone, and laser for skin texture etc. The thing is, although I know I want to turn the clock back a few years, I'm not sure what I've lost in that time. How do I tell whether I should be concentrating on collagen, muscle tone, or muscle mass?

If it helps, I am 37 years old. I used to look very young for my age, but now I look older than most people my age. This has all happened over the last couple of years, which were very stressful. I don't know if stress can have an effect, or whether that's a myth (?).

Apologies if there's already another thread about this. I couldn't find anything when I searched.

I'd appreciate any words of advice.

Thank you Smile
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Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:01 am      Reply with quote
Stress can definitely impact your appearance.

What are your top skin complaints right now...fine lines? sagging? pigmentation? More info will help people guide you. Smile

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Storm
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Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:58 am      Reply with quote
Hi Bethany - thanks for your reply.

It's really difficult to describe what I mean without posting a pic (which I'm not brave enough to do lol).

My cheeks just feel a bit limp - for want of a better word (!) , and I think I'm starting to look a bit jowly, as if I have hamster pouches.

If I press my cheek, it doesn't spring back the way it did. A bit like when you test for dehydration by pinching some skin, and it doesn't fall back into place immediately.

There are what looks to be the start of little "smoker's lines" around my lips, unless I make a conscious effort to relax my mouth. Theses are not pronounced at the moment, but I can see them waiting in the wings!

My lips have lost a lot of volume.

I've also got frown lines, and a slightly drooping brow, which I'm assuming is a muscle thing.

Adding to the above, I have permanent dark circles. I struggle to get a good night's sleep, which doesn't help.

I've made myself sound great here haven't I? Very Happy
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Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:39 am      Reply with quote
Storm, I think stress impacts us all negatively no matter what our age, but it sounds like the sleeplessness too will also be part of the reason your face has changed. I do think facial exercises can and will help but they can only do so much and are not the magic bullet. The success of them will be impacted by these too.

Lines can be caused by moving the face too much also, so I wonder if you are frowning lots etc due to the stressful times you have been through? One of the things that helps with that is frownies for example, and they are relatively inexpensive.
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Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:00 pm      Reply with quote
Nutrition and hormones can impact the skin tremendously in addition to the other great advice youve been given Storm.

Do you drink enough pure water each day to rehydrate and flush out the waste products?

Are you perimenopausal?

What is your nutrition like? Do you each a lot of processed foods? Drink alcohol? Do you have any food allergies?

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Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:32 pm      Reply with quote
Storm wrote:
Hi all

I've been thinking of investing in some kind of gadget, and / or facial exercise program, and was originally looking at the Nuface or Tua Viso. It all seemed fairly straightforward, but the more I've researched the different devices and programs available, the more confused I'm getting. Confused

As far as I can gather, there are LED machines to increase collagen and tighten skin; microcurrent machines for muscle tone; facial exercises for muscle building and tone, and laser for skin texture etc. The thing is, although I know I want to turn the clock back a few years, I'm not sure what I've lost in that time. How do I tell whether I should be concentrating on collagen, muscle tone, or muscle mass?

If it helps, I am 37 years old. I used to look very young for my age, but now I look older than most people my age. This has all happened over the last couple of years, which were very stressful. I don't know if stress can have an effect, or whether that's a myth (?).

Apologies if there's already another thread about this. I couldn't find anything when I searched.

I'd appreciate any words of advice.

Thank you Smile


I'm 41 and I had the very same kind of thing happening with me. Used to look 25, now I have this beginning of droopiness on the lower part of my face. ALL due to stress and lack of sleep, not general "aging" as most people assume.

I can only surmise it's a combination of things. Lack of sleep can cause cortisol to increase which breaks down collagen and also decreases muscle tone. So I think the best approach would address both of these issues. But overdoing anything can make things worse, so try to go slow and steady. Good luck. I am on the same path of rebuilding.
Storm
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Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:03 am      Reply with quote
Thank you for your replies, and good advice.

Thinking about it, stress and lack of sleep over the last couple of years has probably played a big part in this.

My sleep pattern is terrible. For example, I had 1 hours sleep on Monday night, and three hours sleep Tuesday night. I'll have a good night's sleep about once a week, through exhaustion, and then back to normal again. Definately not good for those dark circles.

My frown lines are through the way I'm holding my face, I also do squint a lot when I haven't got my contact lenses in, which has been a long term problem. I will try the frownies, which should help.

My diet and lifestyle are very healthy, and I work out but have mostly been just too tired to do that lately. I don't drink very much, occasionally I will have a bottle of wine split over a weekend, and about once a month I go out with friends and have a few drinks. not many though, as I can't stand the hangover. I don't smoke, so heaven knows where those smokers lines have come from!?

bellabambiiina, it's great to look young for your age isn't it? It just then hits quite hard when things start to go awry! I first noticed when people started not being suprised at how old I am. I began srcutinising myself against photos from a couple of years ago, and was not happy. The other night I got out some photos of when I was 19, and was even less happy Shock Very Happy

This was not really the best idea!

What I don't get is that my husband, who has been seriously ill for the last two years (hence the stress) is 44 and still only looks 27, despite what he's been through. He says I jst need a few good night's sleep; perhaps he's right!
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Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:37 am      Reply with quote
Storm

Sleep is something that some people can survive on little and some people canít. I for one canít Ė if I have a bad nights sleep it shows on my face, but my dear hubby falls asleep on the couch in front of the tv and doesnít sometimes get to bed till 3am, and will wake without any effects showing on his face, even though he says he feels tired it doesnít show. I think that men have an unfair advantage to be honest over us but nonetheless, I know my sister is the same. She can go to bed for 1 hour, and when she wakes she still looks great. I wish I were the lucky.

If you notice its your frown lines, then frownies will definitely help. Your lifestyle though isnít healthy if you havenít got a grip on the sleep yet Ė just saying obvious but its so true. The smokers lines if you are not smoking may be from a repeated facial expression you are doing throughout the day?

I think that when we start to compare ourselves against our younger selves itís a journey for bad thoughts. Often times, I look back at photos at me when I was in my late 20s and 30s and now I think ďI looked pretty darn good thenĒ but at the time I recall thinking the opposite. Its funny isnít it how we can do things in hindsight, but at the time think the complete opposite. Thereís no value in doing it, other than making yourself depressed so Iíd really stop doing that.

Looking at photos of yourself when you were 19 and are now 37 is going to make very few people happy.

Tessie
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Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:39 am      Reply with quote
This got me thinking, and I think its pretty difficult for any one person to make that judgment call. I think if I were you, what I would do is compare the differences between your photos now to when you were at an age that you liked your looks.

Then look at things like muscle tone, skin, fullness etc and see whats missing now that you would like and then work out which devices can provide that to your face now. Most of these devices won't produce overnight results and will need to be used for some time but its better doing it that way and at least your in the drivers seat (which in my book is always best place to be!).
Storm wrote:
As far as I can gather, there are LED machines to increase collagen and tighten skin; microcurrent machines for muscle tone; facial exercises for muscle building and tone, and laser for skin texture etc. The thing is, although I know I want to turn the clock back a few years, I'm not sure what I've lost in that time. How do I tell whether I should be concentrating on collagen, muscle tone, or muscle mass?

If it helps, I am 37 years old. I used to look very young for my age, but now I look older than most people my age. This has all happened over the last couple of years, which were very stressful. I don't know if stress can have an effect, or whether that's a myth (?).
Storm
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Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:47 am      Reply with quote
Yes the sleep thing is definitely not healthy. I have a doctors appointment next month, so she may be able to help.

In the meantime, I do meditation, self-hypnosis, hot bath before bed, reading etc, but still can't drop off.

I think with my hubby, it's his bone structure and tight skin that does it. He's also got a svelte face, and not much there to sag. Don't get me wrong, he looked awful when he was ill, but now he's recovering he looks all fresh faced, toned, and wrinkle free. It's as if nothing's happened. He's even managed to lose 3 stone without getting that gaunt look.

I, on the other hand, don't have good bone structure at all. I don't have prominent cheek bones or a well defined jaw line. I've only managed to look young because I have a childlike, soft, rounded face. There's no "scafolding" holding it in place, so to speak.

I think my face has just stopped holding its own!

Looking at the pics from a couple of years ago (taking my 19 year old self out of the equasion Wink ), it is definitely the full, roundedness I've lost. My face looks a bit harsh now, and definitely doesn't have the same elasticity as before.

Maybe some collagen stimulation (like exfoliation, dermaroller etc), combined with a TUA Viso, and some facial exercises, AND frownies on my forehead and lips would help.

I'm going to look into the merits of different facial exercise programs, to see which one would suit me best.

I agree about not knowing how good you look until way down the line. Even those photos from when I was 19, I remember hating them at the time. Perhaps in 20 years time, I'll look back at how I am now, and wonder what I was so worried about. Smile
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Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:04 pm      Reply with quote
Hi Storm

There are two things that come to mind when I hear someone cannot sleep for more than a few hours at a time.

Sleep Apnea or Magnesium deficiency or both!


As for magnesium:

55% of Americans are deficient in magnesium and 20% are dangerously low. Not being able to sleep or stay asleep are common symptoms for deficiency.

Google... magnesium deficiency

An easy way to find out if your sleep patterns are due to low magnesium... I recommend a product called ĎCALMí Itís a drink you fix yourself just before going to bed. I wonít be without it! Here is a link giving more info on it. http://naturalvitality.com/natural-calm/

The drink taste great (fizzy and very refreshing) Orange or lemon flavor... I like both. Before I started taking it I wasnít getting more than a few hours of sleep a night.


Sleep Apnea:

If you suspect Sleep A, your Dr. can order a sleep test. You donít have to be born with signs of it. Sleep apnea can show itself at any time.

All the best to you... I know what hell lack of sleep can be. Hang in there girl, there is help out there Wink


Deb

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Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:14 pm      Reply with quote
Deb Crowley wrote:
Hi Storm

There are two things that come to mind when I hear someone cannot sleep for more than a few hours at a time.

Sleep Apnea or Magnesium deficiency or both!


As for magnesium:

55% of Americans are deficient in magnesium and 20% are dangerously low. Not being able to sleep or stay asleep are common symptoms for deficiency.

Google... magnesium deficiency

An easy way to find out if your sleep patterns are due to low magnesium... I recommend a product called ĎCALMí Itís a drink you fix yourself just before going to bed. I wonít be without it! Here is a link giving more info on it. http://naturalvitality.com/natural-calm/

The drink taste great (fizzy and very refreshing) Orange or lemon flavor... I like both. Before I started taking it I wasnít getting more than a few hours of sleep a night.


Sleep Apnea:

If you suspect Sleep A, your Dr. can order a sleep test. You donít have to be born with signs of it. Sleep apnea can show itself at any time.

All the best to you... I know what hell lack of sleep can be. Hang in there girl, there is help out there Wink


Deb


I use Calm before bed and it definitely has a nice effect to "calm" you and help sleep. In terms of replenishing magnesium levels I suggest checking out topical - transdermal magnesium. Magnesium is best absorbed through the skin. I get mine from ancient minerals - Its an oil spray and very potent. Check out the website. It is very informative.

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Storm
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Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:25 am      Reply with quote
Thank you, I haven't considered those things before.

I don't think it's apnoea, because I stay asleep once I'm asleep, I just tend to drop off at say 4am, when I'm due to get up at 6 or 6:30. When 6:30 comes around I feel like I could sleep for a year!

Magnesium deficiency sounds like a possibility though. I will try the Calm drink - it sounds good and not milky like most of the bedtime drinks (I don't like milk).

Can magnesium deficiency happen suddenly? I used to be a good sleeper, but now it's very bad.

Last night I slept using diazepam and a drowsy antihistamine, but this is a one off and not something I do very often. Feel bright today though!
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Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:26 am      Reply with quote
So glad you got some good sleep Storm! It makes everything better doesnt it.

Getting back to your original Q:

Skin needs vitamin A and C topically. A at night for repair (either Retin-A or one of the retinols/retinyls/retinaldehyde, C in the daytime for protection. These 2 are the basics and there are many more topical actives that can help along with them.

Sunscreen also is needed.

Facial exercise and massage have helped me tremendously in keeping the tone of the muscles and the circulation of the skin up to par.

Dermarolling helps to refine the texture and, hopefully, boost collagen production but it takes at least a year in most cases. Using A and C along with it is key.

Some ppl like copper peptide serums but its something to read about extensively before making that decision.

So many things that we can do for our skin, but sleep and nutrition and positive outlook come first!

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Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:30 am      Reply with quote
fawnie wrote:
So glad you got some good sleep Storm! It makes everything better doesnt it.

Getting back to your original Q:

Skin needs vitamin A and C topically. A at night for repair (either Retin-A or one of the retinols/retinyls/retinaldehyde, C in the daytime for protection. These 2 are the basics and there are many more topical actives that can help along with them.

Sunscreen also is needed.

Facial exercise and massage have helped me tremendously in keeping the tone of the muscles and the circulation of the skin up to par.

Dermarolling helps to refine the texture and, hopefully, boost collagen production but it takes at least a year in most cases. Using A and C along with it is key.

Some ppl like copper peptide serums but its something to read about extensively before making that decision.

So many things that we can do for our skin, but sleep and nutrition and positive outlook come first!


this last bit is most important.

Try not to feel too bad about how you currently look. That isn't going to help anything. A friend had to tell me to "stay the hell out the mirror" because he saw me zeroing in on my flaws and how upset and stressed I was getting. I'm doing a lot better now and look 100 times better. The body and face are capable of a lot of repair. Imagine, you get a cut and it heals back up even when you are older.

If you get on a routine that targets the skincare/facial care discussed in this thread, that might help reassure you and then you can start to relax a bit more.

On the magnesium question, I dont know for sure, but I dont think you could have suddenly become deficient. I think the cause is probably multifactorial and the solution would be as well. In that, a supplement may help as part of a routine but I wouldnt bank on it solving the whole problem by itself.
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Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:53 pm      Reply with quote
"Stay the hell out of the mirror," is great advice when you arent feeling too pretty. (ever tried to NOT look in the mirror tho for a whole day? ... a whole hour?) Laughing

I tried Deb's "Calm" drink just to see if it would help (I have insomnia sometimes in spite of melatonin, 5-HTP and L-glutamine) and lo and behold - I slept str8 thru the night for the first time in a long time and woke up refreshed. After multiple emergencies and surgeries the past year, its conceivable that I could have become Mg depleted. Such a simple remedy! Found it at a local Common Ground food store.

http://naturalvitality.com/natural-calm/

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Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:58 pm      Reply with quote
fawnie wrote:
"Stay the hell out of the mirror," is great advice when you arent feeling too pretty. (ever tried to NOT look in the mirror tho for a whole day? ... a whole hour?) Laughing

I tried Deb's "Calm" drink just to see if it would help (I have insomnia sometimes in spite of melatonin, 5-HTP and L-glutamine) and lo and behold - I slept str8 thru the night for the first time in a long time and woke up refreshed. After multiple emergencies and surgeries the past year, its conceivable that I could have become Mg depleted. Such a simple remedy! Found it at a local Common Ground food store.

http://naturalvitality.com/natural-calm/


Hmmm...I may have to check this out!!

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Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:41 am      Reply with quote
fawnie wrote:
"Stay the hell out of the mirror," is great advice when you arent feeling too pretty. (ever tried to NOT look in the mirror tho for a whole day? ... a whole hour?) Laughing

I tried Deb's "Calm" drink just to see if it would help (I have insomnia sometimes in spite of melatonin, 5-HTP and L-glutamine) and lo and behold - I slept str8 thru the night for the first time in a long time and woke up refreshed. After multiple emergencies and surgeries the past year, its conceivable that I could have become Mg depleted. Such a simple remedy! Found it at a local Common Ground food store.

http://naturalvitality.com/natural-calm/


that'a great! I think food sources of magnesium include green leafy vegs and almonds. Looked it up. I do get plenty of both of those.

I really hope the OP can straighten out her sleep problems. I'm concerned for her.
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Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:36 pm      Reply with quote
Hi all, as you can see by the number of posts, I am new with posting here.. although I had been reading this forum for a very long time Very Happy

I actually share a similar profile as Storm's, having originally been young for my age, and then boom, suddenly within a few years, I aged what feels like 15 years in the last 5 years... Continued stress, insomnia, illnesses, weight loss.

As a result, I have been trying to "catch up" with self-care and skincare, and all the things I have been trying is getting so complicated I feel I want to do a good review, to figure out what to focus on, for the maximum effect.

For me, my skin has definitely gone more dehydrated, with the fine lines showing more, especially on my forehead (once smooth), and the undereye area. It also sounds like it is from a loss of fat/collagen.

And since I see magnesium being discussed, I want to share that I recently tried making a DIY magnesium "oil", basically magnesium chloride + water, for muscle pain, and discovered that it calms and lowers blood pressure and heart rate big time (and effect that definitely benefits me) Very Happy
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Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:45 pm      Reply with quote
sister sweets wrote:

I use Calm before bed and it definitely has a nice effect to "calm" you and help sleep. In terms of replenishing magnesium levels I suggest checking out topical - transdermal magnesium. Magnesium is best absorbed through the skin. I get mine from ancient minerals - Its an oil spray and very potent. Check out the website. It is very informative.


Hello sister sweets, it sounds like I have just discovered what you have been using, about using topical magnesium. It's been wonderful so far and feel I will be using this remedy for a long time!

Do you know if there are any side effects from long term usage? I am enjoying multiple benefits from using this, and it almost sounds too good to be true Surprised

I actually bought a tub of magnesium flakes online and made my lotion, stored in a makeup bottle with dispenser.
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Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:51 pm      Reply with quote
vil wrote:
sister sweets wrote:

I use Calm before bed and it definitely has a nice effect to "calm" you and help sleep. In terms of replenishing magnesium levels I suggest checking out topical - transdermal magnesium. Magnesium is best absorbed through the skin. I get mine from ancient minerals - Its an oil spray and very potent. Check out the website. It is very informative.


Hello sister sweets, it sounds like I have just discovered what you have been using, about using topical magnesium. It's been wonderful so far and feel I will be using this remedy for a long time!

Do you know if there are any side effects from long term usage? I am enjoying multiple benefits from using this, and it almost sounds too good to be true Surprised

I actually bought a tub of magnesium flakes online and made my lotion, stored in a makeup bottle with dispenser.


I'm kind of old school, I believe first we need to look at the foods we eat, and then look at supplements or topicals as a backup.
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Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:40 am      Reply with quote
bellabambiiina wrote:


I'm kind of old school, I believe first we need to look at the foods we eat, and then look at supplements or topicals as a backup.


bellabambiiina, I actually take the same approach as yours too.. just that I'm now in a position seeking ANYTHING that might help. This is when my body is not even in a state to be able to assimilate foods properly anymore.

Good if you're not in that boat, and I hope you do not have to get there any time soon. Believe me, it's not fun at all!
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Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:28 am      Reply with quote
Just out of interest how do you know your body can't assimilate the foods properly? I have heard this said before, but it always makes me wonder as its not written in any of the science books I've read and I've never heard nutritionists or doctors talk about it and you'd think it be widespread if it were true?
vil wrote:
This is when my body is not even in a state to be able to assimilate foods properly anymore.
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Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:49 am      Reply with quote
TheresaMary wrote:
Just out of interest how do you know your body can't assimilate the foods properly? I have heard this said before, but it always makes me wonder as its not written in any of the science books I've read and I've never heard nutritionists or doctors talk about it and you'd think it be widespread if it were true?
vil wrote:
This is when my body is not even in a state to be able to assimilate foods properly anymore.


This is a vague term I used, partly because I do not want to draw focus to health issues - this is a skincare and beauty forum Laughing

Of course, we all know beauty and health are very inter-related.

For my situation, I started suffering from nasty multiple health issues since 4 years ago.. In retrospect, one of the worst things I have done to my body was taking those antibiotics that had been prescribed, while already in poor health AND without supplementing with probiotics.

In naturopathic terms, I have Dysbiosis, which I am dealing with these days, among many other things. From what I understand, this means the beneficial microbes in my gut have been killed/lost and I have a hard time replenishing them, if even possible.
I used to have a very healthy appetite (that impressed a lot of people), and now I have an extremely poor one. I used to have a small build, and I now have lost about an additional 10% of my original weight, even though I have been trying so hard to gain it back. I try eating very healthy (and very fatty, with the good oils) - I prepare food for a 5-y.o. and she's doing well on the same food! I suspect I "pass out" a lot of the nutrients that my d.d. could much more easily assimilate (sorry about the imagery).

I hope it gives you a better idea. Not fun at all Sad
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Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:57 am      Reply with quote
TheresaMary wrote:
I've never heard nutritionists or doctors talk about it and you'd think it be widespread if it were true?
vil wrote:
This is when my body is not even in a state to be able to assimilate foods properly anymore.


And also, my experience is that, "conventional" doctors actually have told me in my face, that they are not familiar with, nor trained to recognize dysbiosis (along with other things such as chiropractors and adrenal fatigue) Rolling Eyes

So maybe that is why you haven't heard much about it. I consider myself an analytical person (with a Computer Science background) and this idea of dybiosis makes a lot of sense to me, for what I am dealing with. I can be skeptical too, and am open to that I can be wrong too, if I gain more insight.
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Sothys Soothing VELVET CREAM & Mask Duo (2 items) Peter Thomas Roth Instant FIRMx Temporary Face Tightener (100 ml / 3.4 floz) Tanda ZAP - Pink