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Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:19 am |
Ive been using retina 0.05% for 5 months and have just started using Epidermx. And I, like many others have only noticed negative effects from Retin-A. The texture on my cheeks is uneven, with lots of small lines and bumps of skin.
Ive concluded that whist retina-a may increase cell turnover, it does not do so evenly. Skin is programmed to work a certain way and retina really messes up that process. Skin just grows unevenly. Ive not seen one person on any forum who has said its helped with lines, and I think its really odd how dermatologists are convinced its so good. Theres a lot of ignorance surrounding it.
Ive found the same with Epidermx - skin is left with more lines. I really think a lot of people on this forum are just ruining there skin, passing around theories, with everyone acting like there a specialist creating false hope. And as a graduate in Biochemistry myself, I've learning just how little we still no about the human body its clear that even Dermatologists just have no clue about what helps skin and what docent. Everything is still just a theory.
The only things I can be assured help are sunscreen, and moisturisers, and increasing your thyroid T3 level using synthetic T3 hormone tablets so that you increase you metabolism and therefore the programming over cellular turnover- instead of having retina turn it into a minefield.
I just wanted to post this just so people truly understand the potential damage that can be done from using harsh products so other people won’t ruin there skin like I have after listening to dermatologists. |
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Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:41 pm |
And....how exactly do you know that sunscreen, for example, is proven to help skin?
The answer is that we know sunscreen is beneficial because of soundly designed scientific research studies. Tretinoin, and other forms of vitamin A, also have such studies to support their use. Using thryoid supplements to increase cell turnover is a terrible idea, given the associated health issues that overactive thyroid presents. There are far better methods for improving skin rejuvenation.
That said, you are correct in asserting that we may be damaging our skin with overzealous use of acids, exfoliants, and other aggressive treatments, by causing chronic inflammatory response and by thinning the skin faster than it can be renewed. The solution to that dilemma is to use benefical topicals sparsely, and cautiously, and to monitor one's skin reaction as a topical is being used, so to decrease usage when irritation appears. I agree that many people treat their skin much too harshly, and in doing so, cause more harm than good in the long run. But, there are ways to incorporate beneficial topicals without causing that damage.
So, you are partly correct...but only partly. |
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Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:42 pm |
with regards to T3 medication to increase cell turnover- i did not recommend to become hyperthyroid. But having T3 at the high end of the healthy range is perfectly healthy and preferred, supplemented with low dose Cytomel, taking blood or urine thyroiod tests every month to fine tune dosage. Again I wouldn't recommend this but scientifically proven to work.
And thats the odd thing about retina- a studies- I struggle to find any convincing study that shows it helps reduce wrinkles and improve skin texture in people of all ages over 18. And theres hundreds of people on this forum alone who's skin has been made much worse from it. SO regardless of the studies, it just is not a good anti ageing product- its way to harsh.
And sorry I did not mean to cause offence. I genuinely just am frustrated at all the hundreds of articles on the internet claiming retin-a is the fountain of youth when people are clearly suffering from using it peermantetly all over the internet. |
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Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:38 pm |
Yes you are correct.People are suffering from using it permanently all over the internet.
Because they are using it the WRONG way. Nothing new about this. The science that it works has been around over 30 years. I doubt anyone here is gonna convince you otherwise though. |
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Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:45 pm |
i think many are using it wrong. however many(including myself) make very sure to use it as instructed, and still developed worsening skin problems |
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Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:04 pm |
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Ive not seen one person on any forum who has said its helped with lines |
If this is true you can't have spent much time on this forum or looked very hard online either... I mean seriously there is anecdotal evidence all over this board and the net in general. |
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Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:30 pm |
yes i was exaggerating but i seriously am amazed that theres many many more people who say its made there skin worse than better. seriously. its reputation farf far exceeds the reality. thats what i think people should realise. its touted as a great product but its genuinely hard to find people say hits helped them. there was a thread on this forum a while back asking for success stories and i think there was one. the rest said it didn't help them. yet it still is somehow considered great and safe |
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Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:39 pm |
William, you're off base with this. It DOES work for most people when they can tolerate it's harshness. It doesn't work for people who either use it incorrectly, or who stop using it too soon due to irritation. As with any topical, some people cannot tolerate tretinoin...but the biological effects are the same for everyone, i.e. it stimulates new collagen production, thins the upper layers of tissue, etc.
Years, and years and years of studies show this result. |
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Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:07 pm |
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theres many many more people who say its made there skin worse than better |
No, there aren't. Of the ones who have reported this, MOST of them have either misused it or not given their skin long enough to adjust.
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its genuinely hard to find people say hits helped them. |
It really is extremely easy to find Retin A testimonials including ones specifically relating to fine lines with a quick google search or by using the EDS search feature.
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yet it still is somehow considered great and safe |
That'll be due to all the research which has reliably demonstrated this... |
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Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:07 am |
With Retin A there is actually quite a lot of scientific evidence behind it. Retin A has more studies on pubmed than any other cosmetic or skincare ingredient I know of and there are over 30 years worth of material on there available for general viewing. One thing that’s necessary to point out is that what you are saying about derms is a bit like saying all apples are the same. As in any profession you have good ones and some not so good ones. Retin A I have used for over 30 years, and have kept with the same derm and really many of the things I have read that are “negative” side effects do not often come from people working with derms but self medicating and buying Retin A online (something that I’m completely against).
Derms are trained with various materials and not all derms will think identically when it comes to any problem, so the trick is to do your research before finding and working with a derm. It sounds like you had a bad experience with one, but that shouldn’t convince you (or anyone) that all derms are the devil.
William89 wrote: |
Ive been using retina 0.05% for 5 months and have just started using Epidermx. And I, like many others have only noticed negative effects from Retin-A. The texture on my cheeks is uneven, with lots of small lines and bumps of skin.
Ive concluded that whist retina-a may increase cell turnover, it does not do so evenly. Skin is programmed to work a certain way and retina really messes up that process. Skin just grows unevenly. Ive not seen one person on any forum who has said its helped with lines, and I think its really odd how dermatologists are convinced its so good. Theres a lot of ignorance surrounding it.
Ive found the same with Epidermx - skin is left with more lines. I really think a lot of people on this forum are just ruining there skin, passing around theories, with everyone acting like there a specialist creating false hope. And as a graduate in Biochemistry myself, I've learning just how little we still no about the human body its clear that even Dermatologists just have no clue about what helps skin and what docent. Everything is still just a theory.
The only things I can be assured help are sunscreen, and moisturisers, and increasing your thyroid T3 level using synthetic T3 hormone tablets so that you increase you metabolism and therefore the programming over cellular turnover- instead of having retina turn it into a minefield.
I just wanted to post this just so people truly understand the potential damage that can be done from using harsh products so other people won’t ruin there skin like I have after listening to dermatologists. |
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Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:37 pm |
its very easy to say everyone who has had bad experiences with retina-a is using it WRONG. if you really researched the number of people who have had bad experiences with it, and them all saying how they used it very carefully you would have to be very stupid to still think they are all using it wrong.
i don't doubt it increases collagen, but i see very little evidence from studies to show it really improves skin. nearly all before and after photos are taken in different lights so don't accurately show improvements. again it seems to be way overhyped and as such people fall victim to the placebo effect. many see its only making their skin worse, creating micro cracks, inflammation and larger pores, despite using it CORRECTLY. |
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Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:12 pm |
William89 wrote: |
with regards to T3 medication to increase cell turnover- i did not recommend to become hyperthyroid. But having T3 at the high end of the healthy range is perfectly healthy and preferred, supplemented with low dose Cytomel, taking blood or urine thyroiod tests every month to fine tune dosage. Again I wouldn't recommend this but scientifically proven to work.
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Since this is scientifically proven to work, can you provide the study references and/or links for T3 medication increasing cell turnover? I would be specifically interested in seeing the studies showing increased (and beneficial) cellular turnover in the skin. Thanks. |
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Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:44 pm |
please read entire article. examiner. c o m/article/retinol-products-require-thyroid-hormone-receptors-to-keep-your-skin-smooth
(remove spaces in . c o m, had to add them as I can't add links as I'm a new member |
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Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:52 pm |
ncbi.nlm.nih.g o v/pmc/articles/PMC3219173/ |
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Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:11 pm |
Quote: |
its very easy to say everyone who has had bad experiences with retina-a is using it WRONG. if you really researched the number of people who have had bad experiences with it, and them all saying how they used it very carefully you would have to be very stupid to still think they are all using it wrong. |
It's easy to say because I've read hundreds of these posts over the past few months re skin reacting badly and I've observed that roughly 70% of the time their stories include anecdotes such as "I applied it and my skin went crazy so I applied it again 3 days later (rather than "I waited a week or 2 for it to calm down), or "I've been using it for 3 months" (Rather than "I've waited a year to let it take full effect"), or "I started with 0.1%" (LOL!) or "I use it in the morning with..." or "My acid mantle was damaged so I..." The list is endless...
So, thinking most people reporting problems are using Tretinoin incorrectly due to them stating they're using it incorrectly = "Stupid"? Ok then...
Furthermore just because there are people whose skin won't be improved by Tretinoin (And there are many - I think it's supposed improve skin in 2/3 cases?) that doesn't mean it "doesn't work". |
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Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:07 am |
Please note I’m not saying that everyone who has issues with Retin A is using it wrong. I think you are misunderstanding what I said above, which is that the majority of horror stories I have read (and EDS is a great example where you can see these) are where people have used it without a derm and self medicated. I’m not at all saying everyone who uses it and has bad experiences are using it wrong, but at the same time I think there is an important distinction to be made between what you are saying and I am.
I’m not sure what studies you are reading on pub med, or how you think it doesn’t improve the skin – but each to their own. I’ve used it for well over 30 years and am very happy with it. I have used a variety of it in gels, creams, microgels etc and had issues but always talked with my derm.
William89 wrote: |
its very easy to say everyone who has had bad experiences with retina-a is using it WRONG. if you really researched the number of people who have had bad experiences with it, and them all saying how they used it very carefully you would have to be very stupid to still think they are all using it wrong.
i don't doubt it increases collagen, but i see very little evidence from studies to show it really improves skin. nearly all before and after photos are taken in different lights so don't accurately show improvements. again it seems to be way overhyped and as such people fall victim to the placebo effect. many see its only making their skin worse, creating micro cracks, inflammation and larger pores, despite using it CORRECTLY. |
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