"Well the SECRET'S out on ASG"...
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Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:26 pm

Hi everyone,
Regarding the science behind the New Energy discovery, it may help to compare it to Life Energy. On April 5, 2013 an experiment done at the World Research Foundation in Sedona AZ, an independent 3rd party research institute showed that Life Energy can structure water. The experiment was done with great care and baseline measurements on the water were made for an hour before beginning the test. Also the machine used in the test was calibrated with standards at intervals to insure accuracy. We knew if the test worked it would be very interesting to see it as it happened, so we hired a video person to record it. To save the viewer time (and boredom) the hour long baseline measurements and the calibrations were omitted from the youtube video of the test.

Here is the video showing for the first time that Life Energy can structure water: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uvkaIp_XKM

The machine used in the test, a nephelometer, which is used to measure water quality, is the same one used in the published report. Dr. Dibble had developed the procedure to detect the presence of what looked like some new kind of water clustering that resembled insoluble particles in the Subtle Energy treated samples I sent him. Also there is an inversion technique that is done. Tests done in the lab, which were repeated many times comparing vials that were vacuumed and not vacuumed, showed very little difference, so the changes seen are not due to air bubbles.

Here is youtube video of Dr. Dibble being interviewed after he had witnessed these amazing results: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAwm61YKWMU

free skin care · Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:26 pm

kasz wrote:

Here is the video showing for the first time that Life Energy can structure water: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uvkaIp_XKM

Thanks for sharing the video. I enjoyed it, but was left pondering a couple of things.

1.) I remember a while back on one of the ASG threads that were pulled, that your findings suggested that 'younger folks' showed the best results in their ability to energize water. So I'm wondering why the young adult male in the video, showed the least amount of energy potential when his vial was tested?

2.) If it is as simple to *energize* water, as the video seems to indicate, then why would anybody find it necessary to continue to buy your $$$ product? (Did I miss something important?)

Thank you kindly in advance.. Smile

free skin care · Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:24 am

AnnieR wrote:

I do use filtered tap water in my house and I also use our family's water brand that we sell for private use, such as municipal water sources, infusions,alcohol distilling and so on. But I do not promote it nor will I EVER here. It is for private commercial use only. A few of you here know that about me and it is not the first time I have mentioned it so it is not a secret.
Because of this, I understand the process of energizing water "or lack of" EXTREMELY well. We don't lay on hands or pray over it and I am a minister. It is natural from the source. We spend thousands upon thousands in samples,testing and water control. I see enormous amounts of data so I am aware although not active in the business.
That's what makes this all the more of interest since I have knowledge of the industry. None that I shove down anyone's throat.
When I rinse my face, it does temporarily plump up and stays that way for several hours.
Back to my point. That is fine if the product worked for you, it did not for me. PERIOD. I am stating my result.
That's what propels me to buy and promote a product. Results, customer service, and honest reviews. And that goes for any product or procedure, not just this one. This isn't the first product that didn't work, yet I also give reviews on those that have.
If the "science" actually held water,that would be different. I have never insulted the person, I have only questioned the product. Not once. For that, the same courtesy should be given.

Annie if you are speaking about me, I am being courteous. I am just simply stating that plain water on MY face does not plump up my skin. Even the wonderful filter which I purchased from showerfilterstore does not PLUMP my skin. The filter is an oxygenating type that filters out all chlorine and contaminants and is supposed to add oxygen. It is wonderful for this purpose and also for keeping the skin from drying out, so it feels more moist. As you know, chlorine strips the skin of moisture and dries it out terribly. This filter was another mode of comparison that I used vs Ageless Secret. Sorry if you thought my comment to be insulting. My comments were not meant to be insulting .. it is my pure questioning of the ability of plain tap water, filtered or not to plump the skin. "Plain and simple". ~ Aprile

Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:02 pm

Hi Kassy_ A,
Thank you for your questions.
We were hoping to see the young boy (age 12) also structure the water. He is right on the borderline where some children can and some cannot. It was disappointing to see he could not, but if we look at his results as a sort of control, it shows the viewer of the video the test procedure is valid, and the results are not due to adding human energy to the inversion of the sample or due to bubbles.

Years ago we tested, “by feel” without the aid of a nephelometer people of various ages. We found that every child under the age of 12 could change the feel of the water. Some at age12 and older could also. Most teens could not, but we found two 18 year old girls who could change the way the water felt and tasted. Most adults have lost the ability. If you go to my FREE e-book, “Ageless Secrets” you will see that back in 2009 I had proposed that this is the reason why we age.

The effect of structuring the water by using Life Energy is temporary, as the video shows. Testing done on The Ageless Secret, which is made with the New Energy I discovered, which mimics Life Energy,in its ability to structure water, is stable for years.

free skin care · Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:47 pm

Kasz - given that many people suggest that water can be "energised" by various methods such as placing it in containers (such as vacuum flasks, jugs, glasses) and by coloured glass bottles placed in the sun and by vortex machines and by magnets and by special pendants and also the power of prayer - how can you possibly differentiate between all of these (relatively inexpensive if not free) methods and state that your method is the most potent? How, also, can you categorically state that your "energy" is different - you continually refer to it with changing names such as Dark Energy, Subtle Energy, and now New Energy which is very confusing.

I also believe your method of testing the strength of the "energy" by simply feeling the viscosity of the water is extremely subjective and totally unscientific.

Could you also clear up one point for me - I thought that the only way to actually prove water had been energised or structured was by studying the shape of the water molecules - have you done this? And what tests have you carried out to actually prove that ASG has an anti-aging effect on the skin?

free skin care · Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:41 pm

Keliu wrote:

And what tests have you carried out to actually prove that ASG has an anti-aging effect on the skin?

I know Sis said that they were using Visia for skin analysis at the show she attended, so I assume they have done some Visia before and after tests with people who have used ONLY Ageless Secret and nothing else during the trial period. Maybe they can share those results with us.

free skin care · Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:51 am

Thank you Aprile, I appreciate the clarity.
Maybe I should have clarified also that the tap water I use is filtered but since that is such a common occurrence here I really didn't think about it. In the Round Rock/Austin/Leander/Cedar Park areas, 75% of the homes we go in for home inspections have water softeners and an even higher number use bottled water or filters. Mainly due to the water hardness and the damage it can due to the plumbing system, much less the skin.
I cannot use regular tap water anywhere on my body, especially in our neighborhood where the water is SO extremely hard. It causes my skin to itch for at least 30 min. after.
We use filters on our master bath showerheads and I drink filtered water and use it on my face only.
My face/skin really does stay plump afterwards until it completely dries up. I also take HA capsules which helps. That is why I used that analogy in complete faith, not to be flippant. Honestly, I also use a bit of aloe vera from time to time in my water and let that dry first before anything else. Good for the skin/body!
I have a vortex device that I use when I fill my water pitcher. It was one that someone in the water industry had given us to try out so I grabbed it! The concept was to "energize" the water.
I don't notice a difference in taste or other properties but most likely due to the fact that the water tastes better due to the filter anyway.

Tue Apr 15, 2014 3:59 pm

Hi Keliu,
Thank you for your questions.

Our energizing process is done on sealed bottles. Tests done with a nephelemeter show measurements that reveal some new kind of cluster of water has been formed. This is the ONLY conclusion… because the bottles are sealed and the measurements are what one would normally see if insoluble particles were added, but because the bottles are sealed nothing can be physically added. This extraordinary structure in the water also proves that there is some new kind of energy that the water was exposed to.

Regarding your question about how unique or powerful the energy that we use is, the Tiller Labs told me that they have evaluated many samples of energized waters and subtle energy devices over many years and until they tested Ageless Secret they had never seen one that had proven it had Subtle Energy in it. In fact, The Ageless Secret has so much energy in it that it allowed them for the first time to develop a method to measure the amount of Subtle Energy(indirectly). Now they have a tool and a reference to test all others. The have been busy doing that and so far nothing has even come close to be able to show a measurable amount of Subtle Energy.

Regarding your question about the structure of the water, looking at UV absorbance peaks in the water can tell a lot. The before measurement on the water shows no peaks. The measurement after being treated with our Ageless Secret Energizing Process, which is done without making contact with the water, shows a peak at 270nm.

This is huge because it reveals a water structure that has an aromatic ring type structure. When water changes to ice it exhibits ring type structures. This is like creating an ice-like structure at room temperature.

There are many scientists who are studying this type of structuring in water. The water they study has been exposed to special types of polymeric films and they detect it very close to the surface of the film. They call it EZ water or Exclusion Zone type water because the ring type structure acts like a liquid crystal and excludes certain substances. What our published study showed was it is possible to create a bulk water (not just a tiny amount) with EZ characteristics that was made with exposure to the New Energy (energy is non-physical).

Maybe the New Energy I discovered should be called KASZ ENERGY, since my last name is Kaszyk.

free skin care · Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:23 pm

kasz wrote:

Hi Keliu,
Thank you for your questions.

Our energizing process is done on sealed bottles. Tests done with a nephelemeter show measurements that reveal some new kind of cluster of water has been formed. This is the ONLY conclusion… because the bottles are sealed and the measurements are what one would normally see if insoluble particles were added, but because the bottles are sealed nothing can be physically added. This extraordinary structure in the water also proves that there is some new kind of energy that the water was exposed to.

Regarding your question about how unique or powerful the energy that we use is, the Tiller Labs told me that they have evaluated many samples of energized waters and subtle energy devices over many years and until they tested Ageless Secret they had never seen one that had proven it had Subtle Energy in it. In fact, The Ageless Secret has so much energy in it that it allowed them for the first time to develop a method to measure the amount of Subtle Energy(indirectly). Now they have a tool and a reference to test all others. The have been busy doing that and so far nothing has even come close to be able to show a measurable amount of Subtle Energy.

Regarding your question about the structure of the water, looking at UV absorbance peaks in the water can tell a lot. The before measurement on the water shows no peaks. The measurement after being treated with our Ageless Secret Energizing Process, which is done without making contact with the water, shows a peak at 270nm.

This is huge because it reveals a water structure that has an aromatic ring type structure. When water changes to ice it exhibits ring type structures. This is like creating an ice-like structure at room temperature.

There are many scientists who are studying this type of structuring in water. The water they study has been exposed to special types of polymeric films and they detect it very close to the surface of the film. They call it EZ water or Exclusion Zone type water because the ring type structure acts like a liquid crystal and excludes certain substances. What our published study showed was it is possible to create a bulk water (not just a tiny amount) with EZ characteristics that was made with exposure to the New Energy (energy is non-physical).

Maybe the New Energy I discovered should be called KASZ ENERGY, since my last name is Kaszyk.

Jim,

I have two questions/comments:

(1) An aromatic ring structure means a carbon ring structure...clustering of water is totally different and not the same thing as an aromatic. Again, I really think that you must perform some sort of chromatographic analysis and isolate the "structure"/"particle"/"energy" in order to prove that (a) it's not some contaminant and (b) it's something new.

(2) Who are the scientists that you mention above? I'd like to look up their publications and their backgrounds.

free skin care · Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:39 am

Kasz - I certainly think that Kasz Energy would be a far more appropriate name than Dark Energy.

But there are still a couple of issues that I am confused about. You state that both ASG and Sun Lovers Mist contain the same energy - but that they are energised in different ways. You have always maintained that ASG and the various products which came before it were energised by catalyst chemistry. This is from your website:

Quote:

The ingredients have been catalyzed with Niacin, Cayenne Pepper, Ho Shou Wu and Helichrysum. A catalyst is a substance that is used to add energy to make a chemical reaction go faster. We use the technology to add energy to our ingredients. The catalyst is not used up in the reaction and does not become part of the final product. So, none of these substances are present in the finished formula.

Years ago, the Niacin, Cayenne Pepper, Ho Shou Wu and Helichrysum were present in small amounts. Some videos on the site may indicate that they are present. That was true at that time. Today, the only ingredients are MSM, Aloe and Trace Minerals that have been energized with our special one-of -a kind process. Because all matter is more than 90% energy, this process was developed to interact with the energy portion of the ingredients. Catalyst chemistry makes possible many chemical marvels, and is as close as modern science gets to the ancient practice of alchemy.
http://agelesssecret.com/7-important-questions/

You clearly state that the ingredients are catalysed by your "special one-of-a kind process" but, more recently, you have explained that the water is energised whilst still in sealed, unopened bottles.

I'm also confused as to what you believe this energy actually does. Your first product (which was also catalysed using the exact same ingredients) was claimed to be a hair restorer - until the FDA stopped you from selling it. It then re-appeared as a skin anti-aging product. Then came Sun Lovers Mist which you claimed was a sun protectant - except the authorities refused to issue you with an SPF. If your energy is protecting against sun damage and restoring hair, why doesn't ASG perform these tasks - why the need for an additional product?

Now I notice you are claiming that ASG stimulates stem-cells.

Quote:

The Ageless Secret GOLD has a special energy that may help adults hydrate and re-vitalize their skin stem cells.....

.......You will have all new skin cells on your face. The Ageless Secret supports your built-in skin renewal and skin stem cells are part of that renewal process. As you can see, skin comes from within, so you should be helping your body make those cells the best they can be.
http://agelesssecret.com/7-important-questions/

By stating that ASG can be used as a revitalising drink you are clearly differentiating it from other stem-cell skin care products on the market - inferring that it has medicinal properties. Considering that stem-cell research is at the forefront of modern medicine, why have you not made this discovery available to other scientists working in the field?

free skin care · Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:51 pm

AnnieR wrote:

Thank you Aprile, I appreciate the clarity.
Maybe I should have clarified also that the tap water I use is filtered but since that is such a common occurrence here I really didn't think about it. In the Round Rock/Austin/Leander/Cedar Park areas, 75% of the homes we go in for home inspections have water softeners and an even higher number use bottled water or filters. Mainly due to the water hardness and the damage it can due to the plumbing system, much less the skin.
I cannot use regular tap water anywhere on my body, especially in our neighborhood where the water is SO extremely hard. It causes my skin to itch for at least 30 min. after.
We use filters on our master bath showerheads and I drink filtered water and use it on my face only.
My face/skin really does stay plump afterwards until it completely dries up. I also take HA capsules which helps. That is why I used that analogy in complete faith, not to be flippant. Honestly, I also use a bit of aloe vera from time to time in my water and let that dry first before anything else. Good for the skin/body!
I have a vortex device that I use when I fill my water pitcher. It was one that someone in the water industry had given us to try out so I grabbed it! The concept was to "energize" the water.
I don't notice a difference in taste or other properties but most likely due to the fact that the water tastes better due to the filter anyway.

Happy to clarify Annie - I wouldn't want you to think that I don't respect your evaluation. I do think HA capsules do help with skin plumping though as you mentioned. When I first get up, I wash my face in the shower with my oxygenated filtered water and I do see some minimal hydration but that quickly fades... For me, that's where ASG comes into play. I have an alkaline pitcher too that is supposed to make the water taste better as well. I use it with my filtered water. I think that it is quite possible that your vortex water is aiding in plumping your skin. I feel my skin looks more plump (fuller) drinking alkaline water. Makes a huge difference over the regular refrigerator filtered water. Best, Aprile

free skin care · Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:13 am

Thank you Aprile.
I am sold on the filtered water for my house here. Even the hubby drinks it from my pitcher now. This is the only house we have had an issue with the water like that and it is harsh on the hair and skin.

Quote:

"By stating that ASG can be used as a revitalising drink you are clearly differentiating it from other stem-cell skin care products on the market - inferring that it has medicinal properties."

Keliu-I am mystified/horrified that this would be suggested as a drink since such rigorous permits and guidelines need to be established, permits, testing and approval, etc. to be a food product/ingested or marketed as such. Even if it is just water and even a natural source there are guidelines to be followed. That is an irresponsible claim for them to make about a beauty product as such.

free skin care · Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:03 pm

AnnieR wrote:

Thank you Aprile.
I am sold on the filtered water for my house here. Even the hubby drinks it from my pitcher now. This is the only house we have had an issue with the water like that and it is harsh on the hair and skin.

Quote:

"By stating that ASG can be used as a revitalising drink you are clearly differentiating it from other stem-cell skin care products on the market - inferring that it has medicinal properties."

Keliu-I am mystified/horrified that this would be suggested as a drink since such rigorous permits and guidelines need to be established, permits, testing and approval, etc. to be a food product/ingested or marketed as such. Even if it is just water and even a natural source there are guidelines to be followed. That is an irresponsible claim for them to make about a beauty product as such.

Annie - just so that you know, what Keliu is referrng to energizing your water or other beverage with ASG, NOT drinking it. Jim suggested to first spray your hands with ASG three sprays, rubbing them together and then holding your beverage for 30 seconds to energize it. He never once recommended anyone DRINK ASG ... ever!! I cannot explain it, but I energized a glass of wine once and the wine seemed smoother to the taste rather than bittery. Best, Aprile

free skin care · Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:16 pm

aprile wrote:

He never once recommended anyone DRINK ASG ... ever!!

That is totally incorrect:

Quote:

IS IT SAFE?

The product is so pure and safe you could drink it.
http://agelesssecret.com/7-important-questions/

Quote:

Is it safe?
The product is so safe you could drink it.
http://www.forresthealth.com/ageless-secret-gold-original.html

Quote:

“This formula also is safe enough to drink,” he confirms.
http://elixirnews.com/topics/facial-elixirs/ageless_secret_-_the_beauty_mask_you_can_wear_all_day/

free skin care · Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:12 am

Keliu wrote:

aprile wrote:

He never once recommended anyone DRINK ASG ... ever!!

That is totally incorrect:

Quote:

IS IT SAFE?

The product is so pure and safe you could drink it.
http://agelesssecret.com/7-important-questions/

Quote:

Is it safe?
The product is so safe you could drink it.
http://www.forresthealth.com/ageless-secret-gold-original.html

Quote:

“This formula also is safe enough to drink,” he confirms.
http://elixirnews.com/topics/facial-elixirs/ageless_secret_-_the_beauty_mask_you_can_wear_all_day/

Keliu - With all due respect... Kasz using the terms "This formula is so safe, you can drink it" is a mere analogy. You, me and everybody else reading that knows it. Come-on now. Further, the average person isn't going to run out and purchase a bottle of Agelss Secret Gold so that they can drink it. That is just ridiculous. ~Aprile

free skin care · Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:52 am

aprile wrote:

Keliu - With all due respect... Kasz using the terms "This formula is so safe, you can drink it" is a mere analogy. You, me and everybody else reading that knows it. Come-on now. Further, the average person isn't going to run out and purchase a bottle of Agelss Secret Gold so that they can drink it. That is just ridiculous. ~Aprile

Ridiculous?? The term "safe to drink" means that something is drinkable (safe enough to be ingested). Further, this aspect has been discussed previously in the deleted threads. No, drinking a whole bottle wasn't mentioned, but spraying the liquid on to food and into drink has been.

free skin care · Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:06 am

Keliu wrote:

aprile wrote:

Keliu - With all due respect... Kasz using the terms "This formula is so safe, you can drink it" is a mere analogy. You, me and everybody else reading that knows it. Come-on now. Further, the average person isn't going to run out and purchase a bottle of Agelss Secret Gold so that they can drink it. That is just ridiculous. ~Aprile

Ridiculous?? The term "safe to drink" means that something is drinkable (safe enough to be ingested). Further, this aspect has been discussed previously in the deleted threads. No, drinking a whole bottle wasn't mentioned, but spraying the liquid on to food and into drink has been.

Keliu,

You are mincing words here. These are types of analogies are common in advertising. I'm going to go out a limb here and say most people aren't buying the product to spray onto their food or drink it. I don't recall Jim ever saying that. What I do remember is Jim speaking about energizing water or other beverages by spraying his hands first and energizing his food as well by holding it over his food. I never once read that he sprayed it "onto" his food.

But I am sure the moderator will agree, this is getting off the topic. This is truly an agenda driven post. Jim's product has been recognized in the Water Journal and for some reason that has you on a mission to rehash all that stuff from the previous thread. ~ Aprile

free skin care · Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:14 am

aprile wrote:

Jim's product has been recognized in the Water Journal and for some reason that has you on a mission to rehash all that stuff from the previous thread. ~ Aprile

Yes, to get back to the question of the science - an article was accepted for publication in a magazine (and not a recognised scientific journal such as PubMed). However, none of the research has been validated by Mr. Kaszyk's peers because, at this time, he has not revealed his scientific process. The publishing of unsubstantiated data cannot be considered as "recognition".

free skin care · Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:24 am

Ha. That's pretty funny Keliu because according to you PubMed is the holy grail, while others who have done their due diligence have found plenty of problems with Pub Med published results. In fact, a recent article published in The NY Times exposed troubles that persist regarding scientists being able to replicate the same results. Not only that, studies being skewed by scientists with an agenda.. Kickbacks anyone? It's a joke. Here's the article if you care to read it. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/21/science/new-truths-that-only-one-can-see.html

According to the Times article, "The problem stands to get worse. It has been estimated that the corpus of scientific knowledge has doubled in size every 10 to 15 years since the days of Isaac Newton. The National Library of Medicine’s PubMed database alone contains 23 million citations." WOW now if I were a scientist, that's a publication I'd want my work to be published in. Smh.

No worries for Jim since his work is not published in PubMed. ~ Aprile

free skin care · Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:08 pm

aprile wrote:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/21/science/new-truths-that-only-one-can-see.html

This quote within that article was interesting:

Maybe the researchers deeply believed that their findings were true. But that is the problem. The more passionate scientists are about their work, the more susceptible they are to bias.

free skin care · Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:29 pm

bethany wrote:

aprile wrote:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/21/science/new-truths-that-only-one-can-see.html

This quote within that article was interesting:

Maybe the researchers deeply believed that their findings were true. But that is the problem. The more passionate scientists are about their work, the more susceptible they are to bias.

Oh yeah, they were probably so passionate about their work. Like when they were being bribed by big pharmaceutical companies? Especially after you read that the recommendations about aspirin for heart was all a bunch of b.s.

Quote:

Other scientists have questioned whether his methodology was skewed by his own biases. But the same year he published another blockbuster, examining more than a decade’s worth of highly regarded papers — the effect of a daily aspirin on cardiac disease, for example, or the risks of hormone replacement therapy for older women. He found that a large proportion of the conclusions were undermined or contradicted by later studies.

That's my take. Lol.

free skin care · Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:44 pm

Come on now. Let's not accuse every scientist of 'bias' or throw out all of PubMed just because of a few bad eggs.

But I do agree with the points that the funding source and passion for the subject (Jim and any scientist with strong motivation would fall under this category) and pressure to publish all can sometimes lead to bias.

But again, this relates back to the fact that that's why is sooooo important to replicate or repeat experiments to confirm the results.

And that's again why it's anti-scientific not to provide information on the methods in the scientific article.

free skin care · Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:11 pm

A few bad eggs? Comeon now CM - do you really think that it s just a few? Hahha laughing all the way to the bank. Where there's a billion dollar industry, yes I am speaking about the pharmaceutical industry studies, there's bound to be quite a bit more than a "few bad eggs." Money changes everything. Meanwhile, people are still using and more importantly doctors are still recommending aspirin therapy. As a U.S. citizen we are bombarded by new drug commercials .. we can't even watch a good ballgame without seeing a drug commercial. It's sickening. They just keep pushing those drugs thru with all those good studies to back them up ... Oh yeah it's called good ole corruption.

free skin care · Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:20 pm

What a surprise - More impropriety by PubMed:

http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2013/02/06/answers-finally-how-pubmed-central-came-to-help-launch-and-initially-publish-elife/

free skin care · Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:31 am

aprile wrote:

A few bad eggs? Comeon now CM - do you really think that it s just a few? Hahha laughing all the way to the bank. Where there's a billion dollar industry, yes I am speaking about the pharmaceutical industry studies, there's bound to be quite a bit more than a "few bad eggs." Money changes everything. Meanwhile, people are still using and more importantly doctors are still recommending aspirin therapy. As a U.S. citizen we are bombarded by new drug commercials .. we can't even watch a good ballgame without seeing a drug commercial. It's sickening. They just keep pushing those drugs thru with all those good studies to back them up ... Oh yeah it's called good ole corruption.

It's not a matter of belief (yours or mine). There are statistics on all kinds of scientific misconduct, and yes, the statistics show that it's a minority of people.

Also, you are confusing doctors (e.g., your comment on aspirin) and some aspects of the pharmaceutical industry with science and scientists.

Finally, I always find it ridiculous when people paint an entire industry as "corrupt". Just as there are quacks in the alternative health community and among doctors, there are bad eggs among scientists. No industry is immune.

So even though I do agree with you about the nature of problems with the pharmaceutical industry, this is a discussion about ASG, not pharma, so I think we should return to that topic.

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