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The Derminator
EDS Skin Care Forums Forum Index » Skincare Tools & Do-It-Yourself Skincare
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jasminerosey
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Tue Feb 02, 2016 4:05 pm      Reply with quote
Bethbb,
Has your skin cleared from the your Derminator use? May I ask what shade of skin you have? I read that olive-ish and darker skin shades can get damaged from needling (this was info, I believe, from one of Dr.setterfield's articlesÖor from info from Derm working closely with him)

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miracleskin29
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Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:06 pm      Reply with quote
Hi hole grain,

Glad your going to use your derminator! I actually don't for sure know the scientific and for sure reason we should prep w vit c so I'm hoping someone else will chime in.

But here is my lay mans /educated guess. Vit c and retina are necessary for collagen synthesis and also helps the skin be "in shape " and healthy for the needling .

I am hoping this somewhat helps

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bethbb
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Tue Feb 02, 2016 10:37 pm      Reply with quote
Jasmin .... Thanks for asking, yes my skin cleared completely by the 4th day. Honestly, I think that I was a little too aggressive for the first time using that depth. My skin is medium tone & tans fairly easy. I'm not olive or dark, but the fact it can be damaged from needling is a bit disturbing!
jessy8a10
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Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:28 am      Reply with quote
Billybob wrote:
They are still sold out, but I am sure the reviews will start trickling in.

Apparently, Sarah has an issue with our forum. If you scroll down the homepage of the owndoc site, you will see a mean little message about our site.

I feel she is being unjust, she seems to be suggesting it was the EDS shop that was paying for plugs. From what I could ascertain the EDS shop was NOT responsible in any way. Obviously, however, some of the popular posters on this site were offered incentives to plug products on a daily basis. Prior to this, some of these members had been the backbone of this site and well respected: they were knowledgeable and informative. Sadly, they managed to sully the spirit of this forum. Probably the situation should have been brought to a halt earlier than it was: however, it was dealt with some time ago.

Occasionally it does appear that a member might be over plugging a product: recently a lot of posts from one member regarding Eminence springs to mind. Would it be possible for the moderators to gather all those under one title?

I bought the Dermajet and appreciated it for the short time it actually worked. I am really keen to try the Derminator too, but am unhappy that Ms. Vaughter feels compelled to paste negative information about EDS. There are many potential buyers of her product on this forum, but displaying ill-will rather sours the desire to buy any of her products.




Hi.. I read your post and I was wondering about the dermajet where did you buy it? does it really work?
I tried buying the derminator but unfortunately they dont send it to my country. So I was wondering about your expirience with dermajet
thanks
holegrain
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Sun Feb 07, 2016 12:40 pm      Reply with quote
Here's what I did so far:

5 days ago, I numbed half my forehead and one hand only. Just to give it a trial run at .25 and see how it feels, etc.

Used ha for slip during. I didn't snap till I was done that I had used tap water to mix it up with. Now I see I was supposed to use distilled. I mixed up in a shot glass using the ratio previously mentioned, worked great that way, too.

Did my 1 numb hand first, on .25 & medium speed. Wasn't too bad, so thought I'd see what .50 would feel like...it was so-so for me, I hadn't' used enough emla, so I turned it back to .25 pretty quick.

Moved on to the half of my forehead that had emla. Still at .25 & med, it smarted a little, as someone described it like a rubber band pop. But it wasn't bad at all.

I moved over to the other half of my forehead that was not numbed. It was an eye opener, for sure lol. I couldn't handle .50 on that half.

I ended up doing the rest of my face on .25, moving pretty quickly.

Just made my face red, and felt like a sunburn. A little flaking started a couple days later. I continued to use the ha I'd made with tap water for a few days, and skipped makeup completely, just because I didnt have to wear it.

So now, I'm sitting here with emla on my face, neck, and hands. So much for not using it in "large areas" haha.

I had bought one of the anteage microdermal needling kits last year, the one with the 5 little vials in it. I had forgotten about it until someone here was asking about it. It says it's for use during and after needling. Since I forgot to get distilled water to make more ha solution, I'm going to use the anteage stuff.

I have no idea what depths I'm going to do yet, so I'll report back when I'm done Smile
holegrain
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Mon Feb 08, 2016 7:18 am      Reply with quote
Done, and it took me about an hour for my entire face, neck, and hands.

Did my forehead on .50, tried .75 which was just too much for me in that area. Cheeks, chin, and neck at 1.0-1.25, probably could have gone more. Hands at .75.

I used the anteage serum, as my ha serum I'd made 5ish days ago was made with tap water instead of distilled water. The anteage kit comes with 5 little vials, and I certainly thought 1 vial was more than enough to do my face. Not so. The stuff dried even faster than ha, and quickly became an issue, as the blood and serum gunked up in the cartridge.

I got frustrated, trying to wet the area I was needling, hold the hand unit, and watching the timer all at once. I finally popped the top off 2 vials and dumped it into a little container, and just dipped quickly. Still was a pain to use and not nearly as good of slip as ha.

Finally, I threw caution to the wind and got my ha out of the fridge & used it. Once I put a layer of it on, I could re-wet with a few drops of water, and that made it a little easier.

During the process, I wished a few times for a way to pause the timer while I cleaned blood off my face, and cartridge, and re-wet. I didn't use the timer for the entire process, just for each cheek, as Im not sure what the results would be if I needled "too much" on one side and not enough on the other.

I clearly will re-think my process with this & hopefully the next session will go smoother.

I found it difficult to do my hands, because of the bones. I think the needles made good contact between the bones, but on top of them was not good at all, so I guess I gotta figure that out too.

Anyways, I'm still learning Smile Hope this helps someone else
miracleskin29
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Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:07 pm      Reply with quote
Hi Holegrain,

Thank you for reporting how your session went . It is quite helpful

I've been using saline nasal spray and it seems to work , but I've never used ha so don't know how to compare it. To get face neck and hands done in an hour did you use it on fast or medium?
I want to be able to do it all on fast, but it actually hurts more for me on fast , even though The own doc manual says it shouldn't .

Yes a pause on the timer would be quite helpful!

Do you take the lidocaine off all at once or for each section .? I'm finding that the actual amount of numbing cream is important for me. Today i put a much more thicker layer on and was able to do some of my neck and chest on fast but at the end of doing my chest it still hurt some. I was on 1.25 though

Good luck with the needling and thanks again for sharing !

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42, starting facial exercise, vip total face machine, sue vit c , retina, had peels, botox, fat injection, very good skin texture but fine lines around eyes
Billybob
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Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:38 pm      Reply with quote
Hi, Jesse. The Dermajet was the the needling machine from OwnDoc prior to the Derminator. I purchased it from OwnDoc. Unfortunately there were production issues with this one and many of the gadgets were faulty. OwnDoc took full responsibility for this, and when mine conked out after the fourth use I received a full refund, no questions asked. Whilst it worked I was very happy with it.

For now I am just using a cheapo MyM electric needler from Ebay (I think I paid around $30 for it). It works just fine: but I know some comparisons were made using these against the OwnDoc dermajet way back when on the forum and, when working, the Dermajet was found to be far superior.
J273
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Sun Feb 14, 2016 12:08 pm      Reply with quote
Ive done 2 sessions with my derminator and happy with the purchase. Much easier to use than a manual roller and less pain.

One thing im unsure on having read most threads over on Owndoc forums and the .pdf is what to use before and after care.

Theres so many different products im lost as to whats best and what i should be using.

Currently im needling at 1.5 for sun damage and scarring on my face and then after rolling im using copper peptide mask as found on owndoc shop followed for the next week with vitamin C also purchased from owndoc and thats it, rolling every 4 weeks.

I dont think im getting the full benefit though. What products do you use during and after using the dermanator?

Many thanks
RussianSunshine
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Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:59 pm      Reply with quote
It is recommended to use only saline wash during a roll with more than 0.5 mm needles.

After rolling, you may use either a pure HA serum or Environ Apres-CIT type of serum (Matrixes Synthe 6, Matrixes 3000 and Trylagen).

I would not use anything else after a 1.0 mm roll.
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Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:29 pm      Reply with quote
I did my first session last night using .25-.5 mm depth on my face.

This is the best my face has looked in ages. I'm amazed and feel great about my skin, though from what I've read this plump faced glow is a temporary side effect.

In retrospect feel like I could have been more aggressive (eager to see long term results), and am thinking of doing a second session tonight at 2 mm.

Do you think it's overkill to use this two days in a row?
Coconut
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Mon Feb 15, 2016 1:19 am      Reply with quote
Coconut wrote:
I did my first session last night using .25-.5 mm depth on my face.

This is the best my face has looked in ages. I'm amazed and feel great about my skin, though from what I've read this plump faced glow is a temporary side effect.

In retrospect feel like I could have been more aggressive (eager to see long term results), and am thinking of doing a second session tonight at 2 mm.

Do you think it's overkill to use this two days in a row?


Needl actually answered my question on page 22. I will proceed with another session tomorrow!

Though, I think I will use 1.5 or 2mm depth. From what I understood, Dr. Fernandes' objection to anything over 1.0 mm was the pain and downtime associated with treatments with longer needles. I'm thinking since the derminator is a much gentler treatment, I should be okay.
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Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:41 pm      Reply with quote
So the post needling swelling makes for a very youthful appearance.

My only concern with needling every 2-3 days (per the Des Fernandes protocol) is how does one ever know if the results they are witnessing is just temporary swelling?

On second thought, perhaps I've misunderstood the protocol. Is he saying needle every 2-3 days for 6 sessions then stop?
MaryClaire
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Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:39 am      Reply with quote
Coconut, I think he wants you to stop after six sessions and start on monthly medical rolls.

But he wants you to start penetration rolls working up to several times a week.

I'm surprised that you can do medical rolls that close together. You must heal really well.

I'm still looking a little battle scarred at day 3 especially if I treat scars and wrinkles. I've been spacing my at 7 days and I'm doing my 5th today. Yay!
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Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:34 pm      Reply with quote
Had the derminator for a good while and done about 3 deep rolls (1.5mm). Last time I got a lot of dried blood in the holes that took a few days to go away and wondered if I should have rinsed thoroughly for several minutes as was mentioned in an earlier post? To clear out the holes and make sure they heal without plugs of dried blood--not sure what effect this has either way, but appearance wise I didn't like it.

Also wondering about what to use post session and how soon I can begin using actives again after a deep roll. For more shallow sessions, is it ok to use retin-a after a .5mm and how much does it increase penetration? How often are you all doing shallow rolls and does it interrupt your regular routine or just intensify the effects of what you are already using? I am very tempted to use this to get the maximum effect from products I am already applying, but don't want to go overboard.

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holegrain
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Thu Feb 18, 2016 7:30 am      Reply with quote
miracleskin29- I definitely removed the lido one section at a time. I was surprise how fast the "fast" setting was, and I made a point of using that setting on each area for at least a few seconds just to get an idea of how it felt etc. Pretty much jackhammered the crap out of my forehead lol just on one spot...I didnt leave it there long! I feel like I will totally be able to do it on fast, after more practice.

Question - Have any of you experienced slight peeling/flaking on areas of your face after a session? Just mild flakiness here and there that hangs around for a while, similar to when you use a mild retin-a (not full-on peeling like a chemical peel)?

Unfortunately, I'm an ocd picker, and it has bugged me to no end having little dried pieces of skin hanging of my face every day, AND it lasted like 2 weeks. I don't know if the flaking/peeling was due to the derminator use, the HA, or the anteage serum. Any thoughts?

Also, I'm becoming more confused (instead of less so) about what to use before, during and after.

I thought using retin-a was recommended by owndoc to use for (x # of days?) before needling session, to allow better penetration of needles (I think). So I bought the mildest I could find, since retin-a makes me flake/peel forever. I have not used it yet.

Isn't using just pure ha good during the session, no matter what the depth, as well as afterwards?

When in doubt, less is more for me lol I'll use my ha again, and I'll be mixing with distilled water this time. And instead of re-applying the ha constantly, and having it build up inside the cartridge, I'm going to use distilled water to wet the area again as I go along. That cartridge was a $^^&^)*&## to clean out when all that blood & ha (gross, sorry) got gunked up in there!

Anyone have tips for doing the backs of hands really good? I don't feel like I'm doing it evenly because of the bones.
MaryClaire
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Thu Feb 18, 2016 8:07 am      Reply with quote
The only thing I know about needling the backs of hands is to make sure you hold your hand up above your heart so the blood runs out of the veins on your hand. You probably know this but I just wanted to make sure.

I'm confused also regarding the after care of needling.

I go with putting oil based (kiwi) Vitamin A, C and E along with HA with peptides the first few days and then when my face doesn't show any damage from the needling, I switch to the retin A and a water based C serum. I put the HA with peptides on first and let it sink in and then follow up with the vitamin oil.

I'm at home so I don't care if I look greasy but if I worked out, I'd have to figure something else out.
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Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:04 pm      Reply with quote
Alright guys.. A small update.. I have been needling once a week now, for 6 weeks today.. I have not used any numbing cream. I have used Vitamin C once a week, usually 3 days after I needle. I have used 1.0 mm on the cheeks, 0,5 at the eye level. I ran out of my HA last time, so used simple tap water instead, I found out, that the derminator glided less well, and I stayed red A lot longer then when I used HA for gliding when needling.. No clue why tbh..


When i let my thougths run, something comes to my mind.. Maybe im off i dont know.. But having a cystic acne spot, lasts for long, i mean the skin is bein inflammed for like months.. the whole collagen formation gets messed up.. So just needling once a month, in my mind, makes no impact at all.. And doing it once a week, Maybe it has benefits.. im yet to find out. But Im starting to think that I need to go like every 2-3 days.. maybe even ignoring that the skin is still abit red and abit inflammed .. Dramtic damage calls for dramatic change .. I mean.. We have all seen that 5-6 sessions of derma work doesnt really give any results .. if any, very very mild.. Atleast what im aware of..
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Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:53 pm      Reply with quote
jiidea wrote:
Alright guys.. A small update.. I have been needling once a week now, for 6 weeks today.. I have not used any numbing cream. I have used Vitamin C once a week, usually 3 days after I needle. I have used 1.0 mm on the cheeks, 0,5 at the eye level. I ran out of my HA last time, so used simple tap water instead, I found out, that the derminator glided less well, and I stayed red A lot longer then when I used HA for gliding when needling.. No clue why tbh..


It's better to use a Saline wash instead of tap water.

Something like this:

https://d2s7ckq4p8lpu.cloudfront.net/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/290x290/17f82f742ffe127f42dca9de82fb58b1/0/3/0353815.jpg
miracleskin29
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Mon Feb 22, 2016 4:12 pm      Reply with quote
I wanted to share a couple things . I tried the infadolan ointment from own doc on my neck and chest for the first time after needling last Thursday. I am impressed with it because it seems to be the most moisturizing soothing product I've used .its also good to know the Vit A and D is in there but idk yet if it's in therapeutic amounts . I have been having problems with my chest(just my chest) itching in general abut even more after needling and almost any active . For me it hydrated better than emu oil and is not greasy,although I think some people do find it greasy.

Also for my face . I just tried the anteage microneedling solution for just my face the first time this Sat and I like it as well because i was bright red after needling sat (1.5 on cheeks ,.75 forehead .barely .25 on lips) I am a fast healer . However the next morning my face was smooth hydrated and light . I (being me) put vit c on it the next morn and it did turn a bit pinkish after that but I want those actives on there ! Lol

Jidea, I wonder if you will have great results with the 6 sessions but Just not seeing them yet because it takes time for the collagen/etc?

MaryClaire ,
Csn you share how to make the oil and where to get ingredients ? I'm interested and overwhelmed at the same time !

Also , I am quite disappointed that I am still sensitive in the upper lip area and can barely tolerate .25! Forehead is sensitive as well ! I'm using prescription numbing cream ! Using about 3 grams for the whole face and scared to use more because don't want to get lidocaine poisoning . Any suggestions ? I tried an ultra light roll w a dermaroller before putting it on

Thanks everyone ! Sorry so long and hope something in this helps someone !

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42, starting facial exercise, vip total face machine, sue vit c , retina, had peels, botox, fat injection, very good skin texture but fine lines around eyes
MaryClaire
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Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:25 am      Reply with quote
I get most of my actives from Skin Actives or Lotioncrafters.

They have a lot of actives that are meant to be mixed into 4 ounces of lotion or serum.

For example, the container of ascorbic palmitate can be mixed into 4 oz of cream or oil.

I do use a scale because I want to add 1/4 of the container of vitamin C to whatever base Iím using.

I take a little oil from the 1 ounce and mix in the vitamin c to see how well it mixes together and then add the rest of the 1 ounce of oil after Iím happy with the mixture. Sometimes waiting a little while to let the powder dissolve or warming it a little bit by placing the container in a warm water bowl helps. Then, add the percentage of vitamin E that you want. I just squirt some in because whatever amount you like seems to be okay. Iíd like to get some CoQ10 to add to it as they all work well together.

I use distilled water or hyaluronic acid for water based actives and kiwi oil or any carrier oil that I want for oil based actives.

Hyaluronic acid is so simple to make: 1 ounce of distilled water and 1/2 teaspoon hyaluronic powder. You donít even mix, just put it in refrigerator overnight or as many hours as it takes to create a gel. I use this as a base for the Natural Active Peptides from Skin Actives.

Iím using Retinyl Acetate powder for vitamin A but they also have a serum. But you can also find it in pills and drops that can work. Skin Actives recommends to use it in a lotion or cream. Same calculation as the vitamin C. If the whole container is supposed to go into 4 ozs, I use 1/4 of container to 1 ounce of base and then I can up the percentage easily in the next batch. Iím going to try it in the HA also for evening application right after a roll. I keep all my DIYís in the fridge unless I use it up right away. Just like that itís preserved better.

I use the throw away condiment cups with a lid from Walmart for containers. You get 50 in a package and you can write on the tops of the lid what it is and date it. Theyíre under $3.

I just completed a roll to make a total of 6 weekly rolls and Iím really impressed how my skin looks and held up. Yay!!
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Thu Feb 25, 2016 12:04 pm      Reply with quote
MaryClaire wrote:


Hyaluronic acid is so simple to make: 1 ounce of distilled water and 1/2 teaspoon hyaluronic powder. You donít even mix, just put it in refrigerator overnight or as many hours as it takes to create a gel. I use this as a base for the Natural Active Peptides from Skin Actives.


Thank you! What weight hyaluronic acid do you use? Fir example, ELMW, SLMW, ULMW, etc.? Do you buy from Skin Actives or Lotioncrafters?

I see on the Lotioncrafters site they post a formula to use LMW, but this article says that LMW HA can lead to inflammation: http://barefacedtruth.com/2015/03/31/hyaluronic-acid-yes-size-does-matter/

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Thu Feb 25, 2016 2:11 pm      Reply with quote
I have been using one of the higher weight HA, the one with 1-1.5 million daltons from Lotioncrafters.

But I don't know which one is better to use for derma rolling. The lower is supposed to absorb better. I lather it on thick and my skin seems to absorb it...there are some flakes but only because I put it on so thick.

Maybe someone can clear this up for us.
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Fri Feb 26, 2016 3:49 am      Reply with quote
MaryClaire wrote:
I have been using one of the higher weight HA, the one with 1-1.5 million daltons from Lotioncrafters.


Thanks MaryClaire - I just ordered the same. Read the lower molecular weight can promote inflammation.

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miracleskin29
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Fri Feb 26, 2016 4:32 pm      Reply with quote
HI MaryClaire,

Thank you for sharing about the actives . Are you going to wait a month before you do another needling session? Also do you find the needling is helping with pigmentation.?

I feel the derminator is the best thing since sliced bread ,lol . I'm hoping its not too soon but I feel the skin on my neck and chest is tighter and thicker . It's possible ,I'm assuming because I had two medical needling treatments done before I started the weekly sessions with the derminator

Thank you to everyone who is sharing about what they are doing with the derminator ,actives used and results ,as it is very encouraging and helpful

I was able to go up to 1.5 on my neck this last session w still hardly any pinpoint bleeding . 1.25 on my chest is all I can handle and it does create pinpoint bleeding .

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42, starting facial exercise, vip total face machine, sue vit c , retina, had peels, botox, fat injection, very good skin texture but fine lines around eyes
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