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Post Shower Moisturiser For Oily, Acne Prone Skin?
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SweetCreamRabbit
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Wed Dec 30, 2015 11:06 am      Reply with quote
Hi, it's me again... ;o)

I have oily, sensitive, acne prone skin (which has lately been dehydrated --but improving). The latter is probably due to the dry cold outside and the old heating system installed in my apartment.

Anyway, I can't seem to manage to find a post shower moisturiser that has both beneficial ingredients and won't be oily/ break me out. No fragrance would be a plus since my skin is sensitive.

I tried hydrasols and spraying myself down with floral waters (and this is OK for the summer). Almost every oil I've tried, of which there were many, broke me out (coconut is the worst). The only two that have not were emu and jojoba oils but those are usually pricey to use on a daily basis.
I've tried a lot of Korean products because they tend to use water based moisturisation but most have a lot of fragrance and alcohol which I can't handle.

This is a bind!
What do you guys use personally?
h.kitty
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Wed Dec 30, 2015 4:16 pm      Reply with quote
Avene Clean-Ac Hydrating Cream sounds like it might be what you are looking for. It is a basic moisturizer designed for acne prone/oily skin. It has no fragrance and no alcohol. I used it in the past and have sensitive skin and found it non irritating and calming. At the time I used it I did have oily, acne prone skin and it did not cause breakouts.

http://www.dermstore.com/product_Clean-Ac+Hydrating+Cream_21026.htm

Right now if I need moisturizer I use either Weleda Cold Cream or Epionce Medical Barrier Cream. Although I just added the Epionce moisturizer and am not sure if I like it or not. Neither of these would be a good option for your skin type.
SweetCreamRabbit
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Thu Dec 31, 2015 8:21 am      Reply with quote
Thanks for the recommendation Kitty, I'll give those a try.

I'm considering using a lactic acid based moisturiser but I'm not sure if it's a good idea on a daily basis --though most of those probably in formulas that are too alkaline so it shouldn't.

Hmm...
h.kitty
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Mon Jan 04, 2016 4:09 pm      Reply with quote
I won't make any general claims as to whether lactic acid moisturizer is okay for sensitive skin. However, my sensitive skin does perfectly fine with lactic acid even everyday. I use the Skin Biology Lactic Power 10. At one point in time I used this every morning. Right now I am using the Lactic Power 10 every other morning and I alternate it with Paula's Choice BHA Lotion. I have been using the Lactic Power 10 for years and have never had an issue with daily use. This is in addition to using RetinA almost every evening. Sometimes I wonder if my skin is more reactive/allergic to certain ingredients that super senstivte as I tend to do well with alot of active ingredients as long as they are in basic/minimal ingredient formulas. Of course, I didn't starting using all these active ingredients at once. I was using retinoids for a long time before I added the lactic acid. When I finally did start using lactic acid moisturizers I did not start with every day use but started a few times a week and built up to everyday. This is very important!
SweetCreamRabbit
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Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:49 pm      Reply with quote
Ah! I wanna try that!

Do you use it ALL OVER or just on the areas you want to exfoliate? Is it okay on your face?

I definitely think you don't have sensitive skin! ;D
It sounds like it's made out of iron or something! I can only use retin A once a week... That's about it! ;D
h.kitty
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Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:40 am      Reply with quote
I use it on my entire face and on my throat. I even use it on my lower eye lids just not TOO close to my eyes! Since I use RetinA I don't feel that my skin needs additional exfoliation. I actually started using the Lactic Power 10 because I thought it would help with hydration and because lactic acid is supposed to increase ceramide production. Before I started using the LP10 I contacted Skin Biology to find out the pH of the product. I honestly don't remember what they said but I do remember thinking that while it was still in the pH range for exfoliating it was closer to the higher end of the range. It really does seem to help with hydration.

I think you could try the LP10 or even the LacSal. I would not recommend using it as an after shower moisturizer though! After you shower your skin is more penetrable and if you are adding lactic acid to your routine and have sensitive skin to begin with that last thing you need is better product penetration. Maybe start out with twice a week and use it at the opposite time of the day than when you shower. I shower in the evening and use the LP10 or Paula's Choice BHA in the morning. I also do not wash my face in the morning. I just rinse it with water. I suppose this might reduce the exfoliating action of the products I use but maybe that is a good thing and maybe this is why I am able to use such products despite having sensitive skin. I am not saying you should only wash your face once a day but just wondering out loud about my own routine and how I manage to use all these products with sensitive skin. Wink
SweetCreamRabbit
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Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:24 pm      Reply with quote
Oooh, let's hijack this thread! (It's okay since I started it and I approve! ;3

What other stuff have you been using from SkinBio and for how long? How do you like it so far?

I'm using the GHK serum on my eyes, the CP serum on general areas and the Super CopX2 on deep acne scars and stretch marks. (I'm probably wasting my time with stretch marks but my acne marks seem to be filling in with white skin! I've been using CPs for 3 weeks or so. 3 times a week and twice with exfoliates; one day rest with everything and one day retin A.)

I did use the LacSal serum on my shoulders. I think I have KP but I can't be sure. They just look like white dots under the skin. It could literally be anything (but nothing works). LacSal on my face makes it red so I got the Exfol serum.

Darn it, too bad you told me about P10 just now because I was going to buy it a week ago and chickened out! Maybe the P10 would've been better. Do you remember the exact pH of it?
h.kitty
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Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:44 pm      Reply with quote
I think your attempt to hijack your own thread is not going to be too successful!

I have never used any of the CPs from SkinBio and with the exception of a Neutrogena Eye Cream I used years and years ago (before I even knew what a CP was) I have not used CPs. So I have just used the Lactic Power 10, LacSal cream and the Celes Oil.

I did a term search on my old emails and while I didn't find my email from Skin Biology I did find an email I sent to a friend where I mention the LP 10 having a pH of 3.4. You could always double check with Skin Biology since they are pretty good with replying to emails.

I am wondering about your reaction to the LacSal and am thinking it could be the lactic acid which caused your skin reaction since the LacSal and Exfol creams are very similar ingredient wise except for the lactic acid. If you do try the LP 10 maybe add it as a free item with your next order that way if your skin does not like it at least you wouldn't have wasted any money!
SweetCreamRabbit
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Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:05 pm      Reply with quote
Darn Smile

How come you never tried CPs before? (I highly recommend them, at least for old scars.) Were you just interested in exfoliants? If not, how come you didn't go with Paula's Choice?

I think the skin on my face is extra sensitive. I think the % of the LacSal was too much for it to handle. The skin on other parts of my body is very thick and a smooth, except where I happened to apply products on (my problem areas are shoulders and decollte area and my face; augh! I tried not using anything anymore but that won't remove the damage).

I've heard LP10 is very gentle so I'm going to give it a try, especially cause I need to take care of a lot of clogging.

I haven't seen any free SkinBio stuff on EDS! They also don't seem to have the full range of products which is unfortunate because the Canadian website doesn't seem to work anymore and SkinBio shipping is around 20$! Sad
h.kitty
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Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:28 pm      Reply with quote
I have always been a little hesitant with CPs. Not so much because of the horror stories about "the uglies" but because I am a little conservative about what I will and won't use on my skin. Believe it or not, I actively avoid any products with peptides pentapeptide, hexapeptide....and so on I don't use them. I shunned growth factors for the longest time and am still a bit hesitant to use those but at one point in time I used Lifeline Skincare (I am a shareholder in the parent company ISCO) and have tried some Neocutis samples. I guess I am just pretty cautious when it comes to what I will put on my skin.

When I got interested in using lactic acid I spent tons of time trying to find a basic lactic acid moisturizer which was proper pH and had a reasonable amount of lactic acid. They are not easy to find. Paula's Choice has some good exfoliants but she does not sell a lactic acid only moisturizer. I think a friend may have sent me a sample of the Skin Biology Lactic Power 10 and I simply loved it.

I guess I assumed you bought from Skin Biology! Since I am in the US I either buy directly from Skin Biology or I buy from EDS. But you are right only Skin Biology has the free items. Let me know how the LP 10 works for you. If it doesn't work for your face at least you can use it on your body or hands! Smile
SweetCreamRabbit
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Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:27 pm      Reply with quote
I'd be interested in your argument against using CPs. I always wanted to know both sides of the story.
h.kitty
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Fri Jan 08, 2016 2:28 pm      Reply with quote
Now you ARE hijacking this thread! LOL!

To be honest, I don't consider myself to be anti-CPs So I won't really argue against their use. It has been a long time since I really thought through all this CP stuff so I might be a bit rusty but here goes.

When I first starting hearing about CPs I also heard about the theoretical potential for the copper atoms to dissociate from the peptides and then you have just plain copper on the skin which can take part in reactions (Fenton reaction) and generate free radicals which could damage the skin. Things that can cause the copper and peptides to dissociate are acidic environments so any acidic product could be problematic. This includes vitamin C but I also think there might be special case to be made against using C serums and CPs together for reasons other than just the pH. Of course this is all theoretical and has never been proven or disproved (at least when I looked at it years ago if that has changed then please post the new evidence). I do know that there was speculation that combining CPs with acids or vitamin C was more of an issue with the original GHK CPs than with the 2nd gen CPs from Dr. Pickart.

So in my mind there were some potential dangers of using CPs especially in conjunction with some other types of products. Now maybe the 2nd gen ones had less of a risk but to me they also have less science to show they are effective so I didn't want to bother with those. And while the GHK ones had more science to back them up they were also trickier to use and I would have had to really work to find a place for them in my routine. To me the benefits were not worth taking a chance on either.

But like I said this was years ago and for whatever reason I haven't really re-examined the CPs recently. If anything obvious has changed to show that my hypothetical concerns have been addressed I would love to hear about it.
SweetCreamRabbit
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Fri Jan 08, 2016 4:37 pm      Reply with quote
Haha, Kitty, it's just you and me on this thread: a dinner for two. Smile

I have heard of the issue but haven't delved too much into it. I did make a mental note to use the CPs on the opposite end of any routine that has acids, usually at night. My skin is super sensitive so I can only use one active per day. I use CPs 3 times a week, exfoliants twice, retin A once a week and try to have one day off without any skin care.

I do use a C serum most mornings and sometimes not the full 8 hours away from my CPs but I'm starting to question the efficacy of my vitamin C serum (any recommendations? Wink or of vitamin C in general. [My generation is only after quick results!]

The irony is that I bought a GhK serum especially for my eyes and I should probably be careful with applying the two in conjunction.

When I was considering whether to go the CP route or not I was probably and little less discerning than you, simply because I really wanted something to work for my skin. I haven't heard any refutations of the possible Fenton reaction, unless you count this.

(But this might be too old?)

Most of the articles that mention the possible interaction shrug it off with the simple and obvious advice to separate the two or choose one. This was also mentioned [on LiveStrong]:
"To prevent interaction between copper peptides and vitamin C, MayoClinic.com recommends using them on alternate days. In addition, the authors point to a study showing copper peptides were more potent than vitamin C on improving collagen production."

It's definitely a problem I see with SkinBiology, they are not quick to explain the drawbacks of their products and put any myths to rest. They seem to talk down to their customers, probably assuming we won't understand the science behind them. On several occasions I would read dumbed-down explanation as to why/ how CPs work. Issues about the uglies and the Fenton raction are nowhere on their website (and have very little 'meat' in the forums).

Another problem, you are correct to point it out, is that a lot of the research was done on GHKs. If you look on the SB website most of the studies listed mention GHKs.

The reason for this is that large scale studies require a LOT of money and a lot of influence which Dr. P doesn't seem to have. I don't know why he and the company for which he patented the GHKs for went their separate ways. They held the patent for a long time, necessitating him to make (what I believe is a better) different product. There are a few cosmetic 'authorities' that only acknowledge the efficacy of 1st gen CPs and call Dr. P a charlatan and his 2nd gen CPs 'fake'. I'm not sure if the scare-mongering about 2nd gen CPs originated from there or not.

I'm also hypothesising that the 2nd gen CPs are so concentrated that Dr. P and his staff don't feel the need to speak for them. Look at the website, it's so convoluted and silly looking and has barely changed in years! The SB company is making their money due to a LOYAL customer base and word of mouth. Maybe effort beyond that are not needed because they 'sell themselves'?

What did you think of the Neutregena GhK? Most of these products have such a slight, unnoticeable effect that you can't help but keep buying and believing the claims that prolonged use would incite sudden miracles... Rolling Eyes
I'm kind of sick of that.

I'm doing a photo journal of the CPs on my scars and it's incredible. I don't really need to speculate about their efficacy any longer. Smile

If you have great skin already you're probably on the safe side and don't need to dabble in things you aren't sure about. I kinda wish I started them a long time ago! I also see why most of their customers don't use anything else... Not much compares with the immediate results you see with CPs.

I don't know if I'd stop using them once they've done remodelling my skin. I'm still thinking about it.
h.kitty
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Mon Jan 11, 2016 2:57 pm      Reply with quote
I am glad the CPs are working for your scars!

I do think that sometimes things work and yet nobody does a study so we have no evidence other than anecdotal. It really is too bad that profit is such a big driver of what gets studied and what doesn't (BTW I have nothing against companies making profits and feel it would be silly to make a for profit enterprise do something that will not result in financial gain). But unless someone else (individuals, non profits or the government) is willing to fund such studies they probably won't get done. This is meant to be a generalized statement and applies to alot of things and not just CPs. Then we have the one of two studies done by the cosmetic ingredient suppliers for all these skin care actives and the studies are interesting but often biased or they are never replicated or they don't use proper controls or the study sample is small. Ugh...I better stop now with my rant. But to sum it all up when it comes down to it there are few things in skin care for which we have well done studies and even fewer things which we have multiple studies done on. I do agree that for Skin Biology it just doesn't make sense to do the studies when they feel strongly that the 2nd gen ones work. They seem to be doing very well selling their products without actual studies. But at the same time they cannot cry foul when someone says the science is not there because it isn't. They may very well work but they still aren't scientifically proven to work. Then again if they are working for you that does say something and that is probably all you really want regardless of whether there is "scientific evidence" or not!

One thing I have often wondered about CPs and specifically the 2nd gen ones is this. How much of the success of the CPs is due to the entire protocol and how much is due to the CPs themselves? This is where I would love to see a controlled study.

I am not sure that any Neutrogena products still contain any CPs. I managed to look up the ingredients for the Visibly Firm Night Cream which I don't think is being manufactured anymore and it lists copper tripeptide-1 and has no dyes or coloring yet has a light blue color so it has enough CP to color the product. Yet I cannot believe that such a huge brand would take any chances by including a high amount of CP in the product. When I used the eye cream version it hydrated nicely and at the time that was all I required in an eye cream.

As for C serum, these are one of the few products which I think we have some pretty good science to support their effectiveness. I do think that C + E is the way to go because the combination has been shown to be more effective. That being said I think C serums are more so preventative and while they certainly do have benefits like increased collagen production and skin brightening I notice that alot of individuals don't report obvious benefits with them. Some do and it would be interesting to try to find out why some report benefits and some don't.

Personally I am not a super big fan of C serums. Back when I was acne prone they really did a job on my skin and made my acne much worse. I do remember seeing some fading of hyperpigmentation with C serums. But otherwise I didn't notice much else. I eventually started using the SkinMedica C Complex and this would be my favorite C serum if I had to choose one. It was alot better for my acne and yet at some point I stopped using it. I don't remember why. Maybe because I no longer had hyperpigmentation or maybe because I was still getting breakouts and suspected that even the Skin Medica C was contributing. I went years and years without C serums and last summer I tried a few of the C,E ferulic ones. My skin seemed okay with them but here is the thing that bothered me. I could smell a noticeable metallic smell after I applied them.
At first I thought it was the fact that my first sample of the Skinceuticals was a bit oxidized but then I got a sample of the Skinceuticals that was clear and still the metallic smell. Same thing with my CSS CE Ferulic. Clear as water but they metallic smell. I wondered if it was the ferulic since I had never used this before so I tried a sample I had of the PhytoC which was just CE and still the metallic smell. I have no clue why this is but my intuition said it was not a good thing. Sometimes I think of trying the Skin Medica again to see if I get the metallic smell but for the most part I just don't think much about using C serums.

Have you noticed any connection between your acne breakouts and C serums?
tangoshoes
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Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:57 pm      Reply with quote
I've heard grapeseed oil is good for oily skin/acne. It has some astringent action, but is still gentle and protects the skin. I think it has antibacterial action which would help stop the bacteria that cause acne in the first place.
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