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Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:49 pm  |
| OK so vitamin C is an antioxidant, but there are lots of antioxidants out there. The problem with vit C in ascorbic acid is that it can oxidize and become useless and even harmful if it turns brown (when it's brown it can supposedly cause MORE free radicals). Not only that, but C serums are generally pretty expensive. Should I just use other antioxidants? Does anyone swear by C serums? Does anyone think they are overrated? |
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Sun Nov 23, 2008 12:26 am |
As far as I am aware, there are no other topical antioxidants with the clinically demonstrated positive results of Vitamin C. There are a number of highly stable formulations available--do a search on this forum and you will find several that users here are very happy with. And they don't have to cost that much either. One of them, Cellularskin-rx, is under 40 dollars a bottle here at EDS. Or, if that is more than you want to pay, you can whip up your own. Again, there are a number of recipes here.
So, clinically proven, stable formulations are easily obtained, and you can make your own for a song. Not overrated in my book. But your mileage may vary. |
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Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:33 am |
| Thanks I think i will try the Cellularskin RX serum! |
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Sun Nov 23, 2008 5:47 am |
Just like flitcraft said, vitamin C is THE topical antioxidant. That is demonstrated in several studies. I second the recommendation of CellularSkinRX C +. It's one of the most stable vitamin C serums I have ever used. Preferably you should use a moisturizer containing vitamin E on top of it, or a few drops of vitamin E oil, to get the best antioxidant protection. Vitamin C and E work synergistically and enhance the effect of one another. This is a good and cost effective alternative to the more expensive serums from SkinMedica and SkinCeuticals etc that contain both vitamins C and E.
Professor in dermatology, Leslie Baumann, and colleague recently published a newsletter with a mini review of 13 antioxidants used in skin care formulations, like vitamin C, lycopene, idebenone, green tea etc. You can read about all of them in the link provided below.
To sum it up, vitamin C serum is the only antioxidant that can actually treat wrinkles. Other antioxidants can only prevent wrinkles.
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It is intuitive to hypothesize that the topical application of antioxidants may neutralize some of the resulting free radicals, and consequently lessen or prevent the signs of aging skin. At present, topical antioxidants are marketed to prevent aging and UV-induced skin damage, as well as to treat wrinkles and erythema due to inflammation (e.g., post laser resurfacing).
However, currently only vitamin C can actually treat wrinkles by influencing collagen formation through a mechanism other than antioxidation. For other products, their ability to improve wrinkles, is either due to swelling or hydrating effects or to other formulary constituents such as retinol and vitamin C. Hence, antioxidants can prevent wrinkles, but not treat them.
http://www.skintherapyletter.com/2008/13.7/2.html
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Female, 40, Norway. Normal/dry skin, starting to see signs of aging. Staples: Glycolic acid cleanser, SkinCeuticals Phloretin CF, Revaleskin, NIA24. |
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Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:11 am |
| As I was reading that article I stumbled upon something starteling. Vitamin C increases collagen but "At the same time it may reduce production of elastin by an unknown mechanism.32" |
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Sun Nov 23, 2008 12:13 pm |
| I personally don't think it is overrated,because even though it does turn brown, that all depends on what company/manufacturer you go with. So far, I find Vivier to be extremely stable and does not make your already acne prone skin worse. |
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Sun Nov 23, 2008 12:47 pm |
| amonavis wrote: |
| As I was reading that article I stumbled upon something starteling. Vitamin C increases collagen but "At the same time it may reduce production of elastin by an unknown mechanism.32" |
Hi, amonavis.
Yes, there is obviously one study suggesting that vitamin C serum may decrease the production of elastin. Still, Dr Baumann highly recommends vitamin C serum, SkinCeuticals CE Ferulic in particular. I guess she thinks that the advantages of topical vitamin C far outweigh the possible side effect. On the other hand, retinoids are shown to boost elastin production and may be used in conjunction with vitamin C serum. |
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Female, 40, Norway. Normal/dry skin, starting to see signs of aging. Staples: Glycolic acid cleanser, SkinCeuticals Phloretin CF, Revaleskin, NIA24. |
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Sun Nov 23, 2008 4:30 pm |
Just some interesting information that I read in a book I recently ordered - "Textbook of Facial Rejuvenation" edited by Nicholas J Lowe.
"Vitamin C...is vitally important to the proper functioning of the skin. The biologically active form of vitamin C {hereafter Vit C} is L-Ascorbic acid, which functions as an antioxidant by scavenging and quenching free radicals, and by regenerating vitamin E from its radical form. However, Vit C can also act as an oxidant when in the presence of transition metal ions such as iron..."
"Vit C is a water-soluble vitamin found in vegetables and citrus fruits. Due to its water solubility, no toxic effects have been observed in populations taking more than 100 times the recommended daily dose of 60 mg/day. Oral consumption of Vit C is necessary for wound healing, since it is a necessary cofactor for lysyl and prolyl hydroxylase, which stablize the triple helical structure of collagen... While the necessity of Vit C ingestion is undisputed, the value of topical supplementation remains controversial."
"...Even though the preliminary research on topical Vit C has shown promise, this vitamin hs been slow to enter the mass cosmetic market. This is due to the inherent instability of Vit C when exposed to light, oxygen and moisture. Vit C containing products readily discolor on the shelf due to auto-oxidation, rendering them biologically inactive. One attempt to stabilize Vit C is the development magnesium L-ascorbyl-2-phosphate, which has enhanced stability and can be enzymatically converted by the skin to active L-ascorbic acid: (study conductors) have reported lightening of skin dyspigmentation with this formulation."
"Current Vit C research has focused on methods of enhancing cutaneous reservoirs of Vit C that are rapidly depleted upon exposure to sunlight. Once the stores are depleted, the body's ability to protect the skin from oxidative damage and ultimate photodamage is decreased. At the time of writing, the best way to deliver Vit C to the skin is through oral ingestion. Body stores of Vit C are only 1500 mg, which means that Vit C deficiency can occur rapidly. Steady, regular consumption of fruits and vegetables is necessary to maintain a constant body reservoir, rather than the use of topical Vit C preparations."
--- Anyway, just thought I'd share this with ya'll - as it might be a lot cheaper to eat fruits and veggies (not to mention more healthful!) instead of figuring out which serum I'm going to buy next..  |
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Sun Nov 23, 2008 5:06 pm |
| amonavis wrote: |
| OK so vitamin C is an antioxidant, but there are lots of antioxidants out there. The problem with vit C in ascorbic acid is that it can oxidize and become useless and even harmful if it turns brown (when it's brown it can supposedly cause MORE free radicals). Not only that, but C serums are generally pretty expensive. Should I just use other antioxidants? Does anyone swear by C serums? Does anyone think they are overrated? |
I think Vit C serums are a great antioxidants with proven studies and not overrated. They can easily be kept stable by keeping it in the fridge.
I have not heard that after they turn brown that can do more damage though. Its my understanding that they are just not effective.
If you are not sensitive to silicone's SkinMedica has a stable C. |
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Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:10 pm |
| I recommend Cellularskin rx, too. It's quite cheap and effective. |
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Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:55 pm |
Toally agree that VC is overrated. It is all because of Paulin, the US chemist(who got nobel twice in 20th century).
VC is good for antioxygen, for cold, but not as they discribed. Taking one VC tablet a day is enough for body to adsorb, no interest in the VC skincare product, as they could be used during day time. |
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Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:52 pm |
| I'm with you on that one. I like the idea of the Vitamin C because it's an antioxident, and I like using it "just in case" it prevents future wrinkles and so on... but I find they oxidize way too quickly and I don't want to waste it by throwing it out, but then don't know if it's effective anymore after it changes colour. So I'm with you in the preventative but don't swear by it. |
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Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:52 pm |
| I will suggest the DIY skincare threads - you can make a potent C antioxidant and not spend a fortune plus you can make it fresh and keep it refrigerated. |
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Sun Feb 01, 2009 8:20 pm |
| on smartskin/forum.com the doctor whose forum it is suggests that people use Vit C serum cyclically...6-8 weeks on and 2 weeks to 2 months off.... |
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71 years, primarily raw living food 35 years(vegan 45 years) herbal tea decoctions, homeopathy, TCM, facial massage, facial exercises, vacu-lifting, gua aha, shiatsu/acupressure, intention, home microcurrrent |
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Sun Feb 01, 2009 8:29 pm |
| I use Kassy's C,E and Ferulic recipe and I love it. It's very stable. You just keep it in the fridge and it lasts for a couple of months. Costs nearly nothing to make. |
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Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:10 pm |
| jasminerosey wrote: |
| on smartskin/forum.com the doctor whose forum it is suggests that people use Vit C serum cyclically...6-8 weeks on and 2 weeks to 2 months off.... |
Jasminerosey, interesting to read that Dr. T recommends the alternating of C. Does he recommend alternating all actives or just the C?
I have actually read recently the same thing taobunny posted above, that ingestion is the C is a better way to get C into the skin, but I believe in the topical C for added sunscreen protection. |
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