homemade vit c serum
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Mon Sep 26, 2005 12:01 pm

Is anyone still using this? Do you find that it's still effective? Gives you desired results without (too much? any?) irritation?

Smile

Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:37 pm

Hi azalea, I just wanted to say that I would be using the Homemade version of Carekate's Vit. C serum if I knew that it actually works at all, because I went and bought the brand of Vit. C that is just 100% pure Ascorbic acid that she had a link to, and not the L-yscorbic kind. I cannot find the Lyscorbic kind anywhere in Canada yet. So anyways I bought the Ascorbic brand and made my serum with glycerin, but I did not use it because I read later that it is not good if it is not Lyscorbic. So anyways that is my dilemma.
How do you find yours to be?
~glittergal
p.s. I heard that decreasing the concentration might make it less irritating

Tue Sep 27, 2005 6:31 am

natural factor's vitamin c crystals (if you go here: http://www.naturalfactors.com/distributors.asp , you'll be able to locate a store that carries their products) are made of l-ascorbic acid (which i take is the same as lyscorbic acid?). I think the label states that it's 100% ascorbic acid, but I spoke to someone in custormer service who assured me that it was l-ascorbic.

Smile

free skin care · Tue Sep 27, 2005 6:33 am

You can also get it atwww.thepersonalformulator.com . Smile

free skin care · Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:36 am

Hi there,

If "l-ascorbic" is the same as "lyscorbic" acid ... then "ascorbic" is the right stuff.

"Ascorbic" is just the shortened name for "L-ascorbic".

I made my own Vitamin C serum using pectin and glycerin. I presume that it's effective because when I first put it on my face there's a tingle ... and if the Vitamin C was degraded I'd expect to not feel this. I could easily be wrong on that ...

Besides, while it hasn't been long enough to tell for sure ... I could swear that my homemade Vitamin C serum is working already!

Mary

Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:34 pm

Hi Azalea, and thanks everyone for the reply. Well as it turned out I ended up buying two bottles of Vit C Crystals before, The first was: Natural Factors Vitamin C Calcium Ascorbate Powder 125g, and it says pH Neutral Vitamin C Buffered With Calcium. Apparently when it is buffered with Calcium it is easier on one's stomach, that is what the lady at the health store said. This is a link to what the label says, I would type it all out but its a bit lengthy.

http://www.naturesnutrition.com/SKU/31371.htm

So after buying this I went home and thought about it, and thought that maybe the Calcium that is added would not be very good to apply to the skin. So while I was in a different store I bought a different bottle: Natural Factors Vitamin C Crystals, where each gram contains 1000 mg of Vitamin C. It is 125g, and I bought it for 8.99 Canadian. here is the link:

http://www.naturesnutrition.com/SKU/31360.htm

Anyways I was all ready to make my serum, and I made some, but then I later read on the forum it was not correct because apparently it had to be l-ascorbic acid, which the label does not mention. The people were saying it was useless if it was just Ascorbic Acid. So it just sat on the counter both bottles of stuff and the serum.
Anyways I am glad to know though that you looked into it Azalea and found out that it was indeed l-ascorbic acid and that it would be alright. Is this the same bottle that you used?

Anyways thanks again for everyone's help, and my next question would be I do not know where to find Propylene Glycol in Canada, does anyone have any suggestions? Of a place that does not need a minimum $100.00 purchase? Or what else have people been making their serums with? Because Glycerin is a bit rich, someone mentioned using Pectin? Where do you find that? Also if you guys have been using a store brand variety, what brand are you using and hopefully it could be purchased from a drug or department store around here. I am interested in using Vitamin C serums because it offers that bit of sun protection, and it just seems to be soo good for your skin in lots of ways, makes it smooth and keeps it young and healthy looking.

Okay TIA,

~glittergal

free skin care · Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:19 pm

Hi Glittergal,

I got my pectin at my local IGA store. It's canning season ... and you'll find it in the aisle where the canning stuff is.

You can get it in crystal or liquid form ... I have both but I used the liquid form.

I don't know if it does anything positive for your skin ... but I regard it as a "benign" element ... a useful gel for turning crystals into liquid-ish forms.

I have found, that vegetable glycerin [available at any health food store] is much less heavy than the glycerin you get in the drug store. It's also less sticky ... so my serum is 1/2 pectin and 1/2 glycerin.

I, personally, won't use the Propylene Glycol because my skin seems to react badly to that kind of ingredient. For some reason, whenever something "foreign" is introduced ... my skin decides to "act up" ... so I'm trying to stick to more natural substances. Confused

By the way ... I got today the Now Ascorbyl Palmitate ... which is an oil soluable form of Vitamin C ... and which is more stable than ascorbic acid.

I've PM'd someone who can hopefully figure out what proportions of this mixed in a carrier oil will give me a 10% mix ... at which point I'll share the recipe.

I had to order the Ascorbyl Palmitate from my local health food store ... but it came in very quickly. The one I got is made by NOW foods and each capsule contains 500 mg of ascorbyl palmitate.

Mary

Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:26 am

Hey Mary, thanks for the reply. Ya I might just have to try the vegetable glycerine and Pectin mixture, that sounds healthy and good for your skin. I feel like I am my own personal chemist! I have a shelf that is full of this stuff...all kinds of little oils and teas, etc...anyone who looks in there must think im crazy! :P haha. but its fun Very Happy

Ya when you get the recipie for the Ascorbyl Palmitate mixture I would be interested in seeing it...now to see where to get this from, hmm

...have to look into the NOW foods thing.

ttyl

Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:13 pm

hey glittergal... i have the exact same bottle that you do Smile

Thu Sep 29, 2005 5:04 pm

Good Stuff. Yay, I am on the right track!! Dancing

free skin care · Thu Sep 29, 2005 6:18 pm

hpjrt wrote:

Hi there,

"Ascorbic" is just the shortened name for "L-ascorbic".

Mary

Is this true? I was told that my 100% ascorbic acid powder is NOT l-ascorbic by the company (Puritan's Pride)

free skin care · Thu Sep 29, 2005 6:40 pm

sernx wrote:

hpjrt wrote:

Hi there,

"Ascorbic" is just the shortened name for "L-ascorbic".

Mary

Is this true? I was told that my 100% ascorbic acid powder is NOT l-ascorbic by the company (Puritan's Pride)

No, it's not true. "Ascorbic" acid is the general term referring to all of the products in this grouping. It's like says "AHAs". "L-ascorbic" is the specific type of ascorbic acid...like making the distinction between AHAs and glycolic acid.

free skin care · Thu Sep 29, 2005 6:59 pm

Hi Faith,

Can you site your source for this information?

Every source I've been able to find use the terms interchangeably.

Mary

free skin care · Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:43 pm

hpjrt wrote:

Hi Faith,

Can you site your source for this information?

Every source I've been able to find use the terms interchangeably.

Mary

http://www.xpressnet.com/bhealthy/vitaminc.html

As well as many posts from here on the subject... Smile

free skin care · Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:39 pm

Ascorbic can either be L-ascorbic or D-ascorbic. While shopping for l-ascorbic powder...one of the etailers(cant remember now which one..) told me that their Ascorbic acid powder is actually D-ascorbic.HTHS

free skin care · Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:52 am

Well ... let's move away from people trying to sell you something.

How about:

http://skincarerx.com/vitamin-c.html

Which says the following:

Topical vitamin C must be in the form of L-ascorbic acid to be useful to the body and skin. L-ascobic acid is unstable and tends to break down rapidly, thats why it is so difficult to produce for cosmetic preparations. Once it is in the skin, studies show that L-ascorbic acid stimulates collagen synthesis, provides photoprotection, stays in the skin or up to 72 hours, and prevents UV immunosuppression, a reaction that occurs in more than 90% of skincancer patients.

Then goes on to clarify:

In the evaluation of any vitamin C product, ask these critical questions:

Does the product contains L-Ascorbic Acid? Sometimes a products may contain L-Ascorbic Acid within a patented Vitamin C complex. If a blend or complex appears in the ingredients, you may need to call the manufacturer to clarify which forms of Vitamin C are used. This may include the shortened term Ascorbic Acid.

Then let's go to a chemistry dictionary:

http://www.chemnet.com/cgi/dict_search.cgi

searching for "ascorbic acid"

result:

Chemical Name: L-Ascorbic acid, compd. with1-((1-phenylcyclohexyl)acetyl)-4-(2-phenylethyl)piperazine

and continues:

Synonyms: 3-KETO-L-GULOFURANOLACTONE;3-Oxo-L-gulofuranolactone;3-Oxo-L-gulofuranolactone (enol form);Adenex;ALLERCORB;Antiscorbic vitamin;Antiscorbutic vitamin;Arco-cee;Ascoltin;Ascor-B.I.D.;Ascorbajen;Ascorbate;
ascorbic acid;
Ascorbutina;Ascorin;Ascorteal;Ascorvit;C-Level;C-Long;C-Quin;C-Span;C-VIMIN;CANTAN;CANTAXIN;Catavin C;ce lent;Ce-Mi-Lin;CE-VI-Sol;Cebicure;Cebid;Cebion;Cebione;CECON;Cee-caps TD;Cee-vite;CEGIOLAN;Ceglion;Celaskon;CELIN;Cemagyl;Cemill;Cenetone;Cereon;CERGONA;CESCORBAT;Cetamid;Cetane-caps TD;Cetemican;Cevalin;Cevatine;Cevex;Cevi-bid;Cevimin;Cevital;CEVITAMIC ACID;Cevitamin;CEVITAN;Cevitex;Cewin;CIAMIN;CIPCA;Citriscorb;Colascor;CONCEMIN;DAVITAMON C;Dora-C-500;Duoscorb;Hicee;Hybrin;IDO-C;Kyselina askorbova;L(+)-ascorbic acid;L-(+)-ascorbic acid;L-3-Ketothreohexuronic acid lactone;L-ascorbic acid;L-Lyxoascorbic acid;L-threo-Hex-2-enonic acid, gamma-lactone;L-Xyloascorbic acid;Laroscorbine;Lemascorb;LIQUI-CEE;NCI-C54808;NSC 33832;Planavit C;PROSCORBIN;REDOXON;RIBENA;Roscorbic;Scorbacid;SCORBU-C;Secorbate;TESTASCORBIC;Vicelat;Vicomin C;Viforcit;Viscorin;Vitace;Vitacee;Vitacimin;VITACIN;Vitamin C;Vitamisin;VITASCORBOL;Xitix

********************

These aren't sources of retail vitamins ... they are strictly information sites.

Mary

Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:18 am

It is my understanding that ascorbic acid is the umbrella term for l-ascorbic acid and d-ascorbic acid. Ascorbic acid is a mix of the two of them in some ratio.

From ScienceNet (at the Singapore Science Centre):

Quote:

Known by most scientists, but virtually unknown by the public, is the fact that the ascorbic acid molecule has an asymmetric carbon atom. This means that ascorbic acid molecules could have two stereo-specific forms, namely the L-form and the D-form. Biosynthesis in plants produces the L-ascorbic acid, which is beneficial to our bodies. Ascorbic acids synthesised in the lab normally compose of 50% L-form and 50% D-form. The D-ascorbic acid is designated as useless and discarded by the body, as most research shows. People ingesting Vitamin C would only benefit from the L-ascorbic acid. In an orange, the Vitamin C is primarily the L form, and remains so in the surroundings of the orange. However, when the juice has been extracted from the orange for a period of days, the L changes to D and the juice will eventually even off at 50% D and 50% L Vitamin C content.

free skin care · Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:19 am

hpjrt wrote:

Well ... let's move away from people trying to sell you something.

How about:

http://skincarerx.com/vitamin-c.html

Which says the following:

Topical vitamin C must be in the form of L-ascorbic acid to be useful to the body and skin. L-ascobic acid is unstable and tends to break down rapidly, thats why it is so difficult to produce for cosmetic preparations. Once it is in the skin, studies show that L-ascorbic acid stimulates collagen synthesis, provides photoprotection, stays in the skin or up to 72 hours, and prevents UV immunosuppression, a reaction that occurs in more than 90% of skincancer patients.

Then goes on to clarify:

In the evaluation of any vitamin C product, ask these critical questions:

Does the product contains L-Ascorbic Acid? Sometimes a products may contain L-Ascorbic Acid within a patented Vitamin C complex. If a blend or complex appears in the ingredients, you may need to call the manufacturer to clarify which forms of Vitamin C are used. This may include the shortened term Ascorbic Acid.

Then let's go to a chemistry dictionary:

http://www.chemnet.com/cgi/dict_search.cgi

searching for "ascorbic acid"

result:

Chemical Name: L-Ascorbic acid, compd. with1-((1-phenylcyclohexyl)acetyl)-4-(2-phenylethyl)piperazine

and continues:

Synonyms: 3-KETO-L-GULOFURANOLACTONE;3-Oxo-L-gulofuranolactone;3-Oxo-L-gulofuranolactone (enol form);Adenex;ALLERCORB;Antiscorbic vitamin;Antiscorbutic vitamin;Arco-cee;Ascoltin;Ascor-B.I.D.;Ascorbajen;Ascorbate;
ascorbic acid;
Ascorbutina;Ascorin;Ascorteal;Ascorvit;C-Level;C-Long;C-Quin;C-Span;C-VIMIN;CANTAN;CANTAXIN;Catavin C;ce lent;Ce-Mi-Lin;CE-VI-Sol;Cebicure;Cebid;Cebion;Cebione;CECON;Cee-caps TD;Cee-vite;CEGIOLAN;Ceglion;Celaskon;CELIN;Cemagyl;Cemill;Cenetone;Cereon;CERGONA;CESCORBAT;Cetamid;Cetane-caps TD;Cetemican;Cevalin;Cevatine;Cevex;Cevi-bid;Cevimin;Cevital;CEVITAMIC ACID;Cevitamin;CEVITAN;Cevitex;Cewin;CIAMIN;CIPCA;Citriscorb;Colascor;CONCEMIN;DAVITAMON C;Dora-C-500;Duoscorb;Hicee;Hybrin;IDO-C;Kyselina askorbova;L(+)-ascorbic acid;L-(+)-ascorbic acid;L-3-Ketothreohexuronic acid lactone;L-ascorbic acid;L-Lyxoascorbic acid;L-threo-Hex-2-enonic acid, gamma-lactone;L-Xyloascorbic acid;Laroscorbine;Lemascorb;LIQUI-CEE;NCI-C54808;NSC 33832;Planavit C;PROSCORBIN;REDOXON;RIBENA;Roscorbic;Scorbacid;SCORBU-C;Secorbate;TESTASCORBIC;Vicelat;Vicomin C;Viforcit;Viscorin;Vitace;Vitacee;Vitacimin;VITACIN;Vitamin C;Vitamisin;VITASCORBOL;Xitix

********************

These aren't sources of retail vitamins ... they are strictly information sites.

Mary

HOLY COW!!! That certainly cleared that up... Am I the only one who is more confused than ever?? Embarassed

azalea wrote:

Is anyone still using this? Do you find that it's still effective? Gives you desired results without (too much? any?) irritation?

Smile

I could've sworn that I had replied to this....

The only other Vit-C serum I've ever tried was the one from CSRx. It used it for about 6 weeks and then I began making my own. I'm pretty sure my homemade one is working because my skin *does* look a lot brighter than it did six months ago.

glittergal wrote:

Anyways thanks again for everyone's help, and my next question would be I do not know where to find Propylene Glycol in Canada, does anyone have any suggestions?

You can order if fromwww.thepersonalformulator.com, but they charge a minimum S&H price of $8 for U.S. orders, and the PG only costs about three bucks, so I can't imagine what their minimum shipping would be to Canada although I *do* know they ship internationally.

On a brighter side: I have two HUGE bottles of PG -- I bought one, accidentally packed it during my move, discovered I needed it while I was staying at the hotel for 3 months so ordered another and now I have nearly a gallon of it altogether!! I've made this offer before in the DIY recipes thread, but I will send anyone a couple ounces of it -- enough to make *at least* a year's worth of serum b/c you only use like 5ml per batch -- either for free or for only the cost of shipping, depending upon where you live and how much it costs to send it. Shipping it to Canada would be less than a dollar, so it isn't enough worth using PayPal b/c they'd charge me that much just to convert it from CAN to U.S. dollars.

GlitterGal - if you still want some PG, PM me again with your full name and address -- didn't we already do a Ardell/Dreamlash transaction last month? I've done so many I can't remember! -- and I'll ship it out to you next time I'm at the post office.

free skin care · Fri Sep 30, 2005 9:14 am

gardenofwisdom.com also ships to Canada without the heavy shipping charges. They sell PG for $5.65 for 16oz. I've purchased from them before and as I recall, shipping was $3 or $4 for several items.

free skin care · Sat Oct 01, 2005 9:14 am

Mabsy wrote:

It is my understanding that ascorbic acid is the umbrella term for l-ascorbic acid and d-ascorbic acid. Ascorbic acid is a mix of the two of them in some ratio.

From ScienceNet (at the Singapore Science Centre):

Quote:

Known by most scientists, but virtually unknown by the public, is the fact that the ascorbic acid molecule has an asymmetric carbon atom. This means that ascorbic acid molecules could have two stereo-specific forms, namely the L-form and the D-form. Biosynthesis in plants produces the L-ascorbic acid, which is beneficial to our bodies. Ascorbic acids synthesised in the lab normally compose of 50% L-form and 50% D-form. The D-ascorbic acid is designated as useless and discarded by the body, as most research shows. People ingesting Vitamin C would only benefit from the L-ascorbic acid. In an orange, the Vitamin C is primarily the L form, and remains so in the surroundings of the orange. However, when the juice has been extracted from the orange for a period of days, the L changes to D and the juice will eventually even off at 50% D and 50% L Vitamin C content.

Thanks Mabsy Smile

Sat Oct 01, 2005 10:16 am

Ok, thanks Dianne....hmmmmmmm so to use the Vit C stuff that I have or not....?? wow this is pretty confusing!! I think I will go ahead anyways... Smile

free skin care · Sat Oct 01, 2005 12:17 pm

Hi Glittergal,

Thanks to Mabsby for that source. At least it was a little more clear on the differences. Smile

When I sought out the source that Mabsby used ... and read the whole article ... I think I understand a bit better what's being said.

The quote is from a query on food claiming to be sources of "Vitamin C" and the preceding paragraph says:

Ascorbic acid is vitamin C and this molecule is physiologically active.

It is easily oxidised to its reduced form dehydroascorbic acid which is also physiologically active.

However the reduced form is even more easily oxidised and is degraded into diketogulonic acid which has no vitamin C activity. The problem is that many of the analyses have included all three molecular types and represented as ascorbic acid. Since these analyses are not routinely accomplished, much of the food nutrient data is based on old techniques and possibly inaccurate information. If anything, the nutrient values will be reported as being higher than the actual value. No values are available for the actual processed food that is ready for consumption, except for fruits and vegetables that are eaten fresh and raw. However, even these have lost some of their nutrients because of the length of time and natural degradation that has been going on since harvesting. Storage conditions also do their harm on the nutrient values. Remember that the nutrients in food begin decreasing from the moment that they are harvested (and never increase).

I think what it's saying is that, like Mabsby said. "Ascorbic Acid" is the "umbrella" term with "l-ascorbic" representing the active Vitamin C and "d-ascorbic" representing the "inactive" portion ... and when it's in crystal form it degrades until it's eventually "useless" or "inactive".

When you purchase "ascorbic acid" in cyrstal form ... it's probably 50% l-ascorbic acid and 50% d-ascorbic acid, the latter being "inactive" ... but the former IS active.

So ... the serum made from "ascorbic acid" will be effective ... although if you've made a 10% solution of it ... you probably only have a 5% "active" form of Vitamin C.

Therefore ... if you are using "ascorbic acid" then make it a 20% solution if you want a 10% solution.

Some of us live where it's far easier to obtain "ascorbic acid" than it is to find "l-ascorbic acid" ... and even if you have the latter, it too degrades to "useless" with the same speed as plain old "ascorbic acid".

The last batch I made at 20% Vitamin C ... and it didn't irritate my skin ... so making a 20% solution with ascorbic acid is probably okay if you're looking to get a 10% serum.

It also pointed out that mixed with water, only 20% of the l-ascorbic acid is active Vitamin C after 24 hours. So ... if you use water at all ... regardless of which form of "Vitamin C" you're using ... it's only active for 24 hours ...

The lesson, certainly for me, is that I'd better make a new batch daily if I want to use water! Laughing

But I do have a new question. I have added Vitamin E because E and C work better together than they do apart. Vitamin E is a preservative ... but will it preserve Vitamin C ... or just keep the "serum" from going "bad"?

Mary

Sat Oct 01, 2005 1:03 pm

hpjrt wrote:

... and even if you have the latter, it too degrades to "useless" with the same speed as plain old "ascorbic acid".

is this in solid form? or once mixed with water?

hpjrt wrote:

It also pointed out that mixed with water, only 20% of the l-ascorbic acid is active Vitamin C after 24 hours. So ... if you use water at all ... regardless of which form of "Vitamin C" you're using ... it's only active for 24 hours ...

Hmm, so maybe it's better to mix the vit c with say a moisturizer, so you have a fresh batch everyday...

Can some other DIY vit c serum users comment? Carekate (because I know you use your serum for a couple of weeks before making a new batch...)?

free skin care · Sat Oct 01, 2005 1:32 pm

Hi Azalea,

There are a few problems with mixing Vitamin C crystals with your moisturizer ... the first one being that the crystals don't dissolve immediately in anything but water. Also, according to Mabsby's article, different ingredients can actually accelerate the degradation of Vitamin C ... Shock

When I made some with vegetable glycerin, it took an hour or two for the crystals to dissolve.

Also Ascorbic Acid is water soluable ... and won't dissolve in oil ... at least that's my understanding, although I confess I've never tried to dissolve them in oil. Most moisturizers have some sort of "oil" in them I would think ... and certainly in their "lotion" form might further delay the dissolving process.

I think Carekate uses propylene glycol as well as water for hers ... at least her recipe calls for half water and half propylene glycol. I don't know exactly what the propylene glycol does in terms of extending the life of Vitamin C ... if anything.

There was another thread on here where, apparently, a chemist at The Personal Formulator suggested not putting any water at all in the serum ... because of the rapid degrading of Vitamin C in water.

Carekate is sending me some propylene glycol so I can try it. I've made one using only vegetable glycerin ... and I think it remains effective for a week. The last batch I made, yesterday, was made with 1/2 water, 1/2 glycerin ... so I think I'll make a new batch today with just glycerin ...

Confused

Mary

Sat Oct 01, 2005 1:53 pm

Water degrading vit c is so interesting... But doesn't Skinceuticals serum list water as the first ingredient? Hmmm.

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