Retin-A Horror Story
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free skin care · Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:35 am

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In my case, it is really post-inflammatory hyper-pigmentation. I am brown-skinned, and whenever my skin is damaged (burnt, blemished, cut, or even a scraped), my skin turns darker than the surrounding region. It sometimes takes years to fade Sad

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From what I've read about CP's, the "uglies" are temporary looseness that rectifies itself in short order when application of the CP is stopped.

Correct that the term "uglies" is typically used in reference to the laxity from CP usage, but I don't think she was using it in the literal sense nor comparing your damage to the laxity of CP's. What you've got is a whole nother ball game obviously.

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I picked up some Castor Oil today as I have read that it is effective at evening out skin discolorations. My plan is to use Rosehip Oil during the day, and Castor Oil with E at night to fade the lesions. I've also read that Calendula with Allantoin is good for fading/healing, but not sure how many products I want to pile onto this injury.

I will agree with Firefox on the Castor. I have heard the same and would not try that right out of the gate. I would stick with something basic and pile as little as possible at this point. Less is definitely more in this case as you don't want to cause any more irritation.

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I am confused as to how to proceed, but would like to stay with natural remedies for the time being. If my skin responds to the RO positively, it may be all the retinoid I need! I want to take a conservative approach first, then add in prescription retinoids and CP's if necessary: most of all, do no damage! Cool

I also hoping that the retinoids in RO may help my skin acclimatize so that introducing Retin-A later (if necessary) will result in less of a reaction. Smile

I used rosehip oil in my times of need and it was pretty much all I used outside of cleansing and sunscreen. Have to say it was a skin saver. I think the best way to ward of any heavy duty reaction to retin-a is to scale back the use and be careful what ever else you use AM until you get used to it. Start by using it slowly a few times a week and work your way up from there, taking a day or 2 off whenever redness or irritation starts to rear its ugly head. In your case of reaction, it is merely from too much too soon...plain and simple.

Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:03 pm

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Castor oil can be drying/ an irritant if not diluted

I think most of the inflammation is gone; the skin barrier seems to have repaired itself... but the pigmentation is still there. I read on a homeopathic site that castor oil could be used undilluted to fade scars and pigmentation, but I will defer to your experience and not begin that regimen as yet.

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I used rosehip oil in my times of need and it was pretty much all I used outside of cleansing and sunscreen. Have to say it was a skin saver.

I just got my oil in today! Although it is obviously far too soon to tell about the healing effects of the oil, it has a very nice texture and leaves my skin feeling nice. A few drops goes a long way!

Does anyone know of what can be done to speed up pigmentation normalization (other than just time). My pigmentation usually takes a long time to go on its own (on the order of a year). I have blemishes from pimples that are six months old, and remain dark.

free skin care · Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:14 pm

Youve just asked the million dollar question sonic. Which has spawmed an entire industry around skin lightening solutions. Heres the nuts and bolts of it. Some pigmentation responds well to topical treatment, others do not. The only way to know which you are is to try it. The available topical treatments include....

Hydroquinone - banned in a lot of countries due to not insignificant studies linking its use to cancer. The effects of hydroquinone tend to end when you stop using it as well.

Arbutin - herbal extract that interrupts the melanin synthesis. Useful for preventing pigmentation due to sun exposure but probably not useful for PIH.

Curcumin - as for Arbutin. Source of curcumin is Tumeric.

Aha, retinoids, vit C. Mainly through exfoliation of the epidermis and gradual removal of pigmented cells. vit C also breaks up pigment in live cells. Guessing though these arent going to be top of your list treatments given your experience. Already using RO which contains all of the above including malic acid.

Lasers and peels. Some people have good results with them, unfortunately people with highly pigmented skin have had horror stories where it
has caused PIH. One lady in particular, posted on the net, ended up with a permanent zorro mask after IPL treatment.

Shock

free skin care · Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:29 am

Just want to echo Bren's comments here, she's completely right about applying to the eye, its a very slow process, so where Sonic you applied nightly 2 days in a row you just overdid things too early on.

Retin A is a prescription medication for a reason. Even the lowest concentrations of 0.025% can be pretty powerful to some people, and so I'm always scared when I read about people self medicating with it. I've used Retin A for over 30 plus years, but worked with the same derm during that entire time (and am actually worried because he's coming up to retirement soon and I'm going to have to move - shock horror).

So I'd rest away frm it completely for now - the Retin A. The oils are a great suggestion. I'd actually steer clear of the CPs. They seem to be hit and miss and after Toby's results with them, they just plain scare me now. So resting up with oils for at least the next 6-12 weeks will be best. Rosehip oil has both C and A in it. So it will help the skin heal up faster.

bren21 wrote:

I have always been told that retin-a use directly under the eye should be a VERY slow process...even slower than your all over introduction to retin-a and shouldn't even be directly applied under the eye for several weeks after you start using it. Apparently if you apply it all the way to the upper cheek bone area there will be some retin-a that seeps in to the under eye area which will slowly acclimate that area to the retin-a. Eventually you experiment with applying it under the eyes once in a while and then work your way up in frequency from there.
I am to the point now where I can directly apply it under the eye, every night if I wanted to...but now I am merely in maintainance application.

In your case I would definitely get back to basics, cleanse, moisture (perhaps a nice bio oil like emu), sunscreen until your skin heals itself. Once everything gets back in to order start retin-a slowly and gradually. Any sign of irritation with retin-a means back off it for a few days until that irritation subsides then start applying again. There is always an acclimation period with retin-a and there aren't too many out there that do not get redness/irritation in some form or another. But once your skin gets used to it, the redness should subside such as mine has.

Please don't feel like an idiot...I've burnt the bloody hell out of my skin a few times (Once with MaMa lotion, good lord what a burn! Rolling Eyes

), but we all have skincare snafus! It's how we learn what not to do Wink

free skin care · Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:46 pm

Hey Sonic, I've been reading your thread, and hope you end up having a happy outcome in the end. Glad you've come here for advice!
I have brown skin as well, and totally relate to what you wrote about the darkness taking years to fade. Sad

I really think your cleanser is in no small part to blame. Most cleansers seem waay too harsh to me, with all those chemicals in them stripping my skin. You don't use it in your eye area do you? I think using cleansers in the eye area is completely unnecessary unless you use heavy eye makeup, in which case I'd recommend gentle removers or just oils instead. And I NEVER massage in any cleanser or even oils right before applying retin a or vit ca. I just very gently remove surface oils so that the product can penetrate.

FYI I've been dotting 4% hydroquinone on my small spots and recently a lactic acid/arbutin concoction, both which might be helping. But its hard to tell since it might have just faded due to time.

However, I would NOT use either of these anywhere near my eyes! I've used vit c & retin-a near the outside corners (which were somewhat raw due to tearing/wiping) with surprising success - meaning healing without irritation, but I'm VERY cautious about it (i.e. don't use much, and certainly don't RUB it in), and I'm only doing it because the rest of my skin has handled it so well.

Also, please note that as I understand, brown skin's hyperpigmentation is different than hyperpigmentation on other skins, so its worth researching that angle to see which products are recommended, and not. And I know its hard, but right now, you need to forget about the hyperpigmentation and focus on getting the skin back to more robust health, otherwise, you'll really screw yourself.

You're in good hands with the advice you've been given here re healing. Sounds to me like the rosehip is the best way to go (& pls consider ocm instead of your cleanser!). Also, if I were you, I'd be focussing on healing from the INside out right now. Vitamin B's do amazing things for my skin, also deep green vegetables & loads of fruit, and I've read a lot about ingesting turmeric being helpful, which makes sense to me, so I'm trying it. Pls read up on & take seriously what you can do regarding your diet & supplements to escalate healing. Fish oils might also be very helpful in your particular case.

Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:55 pm

Quote:

The available topical treatments include...*snip*...
Curcumin - as for Arbutin. Source of curcumin is Tumeric.

I had read about the curative effects of turmeric and it actually helped tremendously a few years ago when I had a bout of angio-edema. My doctor told me I would have to be on prednisone long term, but I opted for a natural treatment with good effect.

I have started taking approx. 2 tbsp. turmeric per day in milk with honey. I figure it can't hurt ... I have also considered using it as a topical, but it stains like mad.

Hydroquinone is scary for me, because it can actually WORSEN hyperpigmentation in rare cases. Ditto for Laser treatments.

Quote:

I'd actually steer clear of the CPs.

No argument here. After my trials with retin-a, I would be very leary about trying something that could have deleterious effects. CP's are great for a lot of people, but if you're the one with a horrible result, you'll regret it (trust me, I know). Shock

Quote:

I have brown skin as well, and totally relate to what you wrote about the darkness taking years to fade. Sad

I really think your cleanser is in no small part to blame.

Hi LoriA. I'm glad there is someone who can relate to what it's like when every scrape you get turns dark!! After learning about sulfate surfactants, I've only been using Dove on my face. Previous to this snafu, I'd never used any soap on my face - just water from the shower and shaving cream. I'm going to check out OCM, but I'm afraid it will make my skin very difficult to deal with when doing facial exercises (too slippery).

Quote:

FYI I've been dotting 4% hydroquinone on my small spots and recently a lactic acid/arbutin concoction, both which might be helping. But its hard to tell since it might have just faded due to time.

I'm curious to know how long you have been on that concoction? Also, was your pigmentation due to melasma, or PIH?

free skin care · Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:22 am

I'm of the opinion that ocm can be incredibly balancing, nourishing, and even protecting to skin, but the trick is to be gentler than you think you need to be at first, since even light massage can disrupt your skin, and of course finding the right type and balance of oils. I'm not sure if you're understanding that after ocm you remove every trace of oil, either gently with a warm microfibre cloth (which I do), or some recipes will allow you to rinse off completely with just water.

I've been using the hydroquinone 2-4 months on and off for about a year. After giving my skin a break from it, it tends to work more effectively when I start up again. There are some marks which have disappeared, and some which don't budge. I'm thinking the ones which have gone are due to pih, and the ones that haven't are sun spots or something else which it just won't work on. I need to research this further - or probably just read the posts that some of the more knowledgeable on eds have posted recently!
I've been using the lactic/arbutin for about a month, alternating with the hydroquinone lately. I'm not sure if using them concurrently is recommended though.

I actually wouldn't recommend either for you... my gut feeling is that they'd be too harsh for your skin, and probably ineffective. If you can just bring your skin back to health, let it recover from the trauma, then you can find out what kind of gentle exfoliation works best for you, and how you can improve circulation to your skin. That alone will make remarkable improvements to how you look. I know its hard, but all we can do is focus on our other attributes & try NOT to focus on the hyperpigmentation as it clears. Maybe wear your hair or beard differently?

And it might sound strange but orange (very orange!) concealers work INCREDIBLY well to neutralize the dark colour of undereye circles or hyperpigmentation. They are usually blue toned, and on the colour wheel orange cancels out blue. They can be worn without anyone even knowing. If one brand doesn't work effectively to cancel the colour, or the formula doesn't blend nicely into your skin or "sits on top", try another brand. I promise you that there will be one that works for you.
Some companies, or theatrical makeup places specialize in them for concealing tattoes, and they work like magic! I know it may be odd being a guy, but more guys than you think wear makeup - you just can't tell - please look into it and forget about trying to fade with dangerous topicals right now.
Everthing I've just talked about I just dot on to the affected areas (in my case just tiny spots here and there), with a tiny brush, or the rounded end of the brush handle.
Hope something in all that helps!

free skin care · Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:09 pm

I've been seeing OCM all over the place and been trying to figure out what it stands for? If you could be so kind to enlighten me Embarassed

...I think it's oil cleansing method, but wanted to make sure.

Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:43 pm

bren21 wrote:

I think it's oil cleansing method, but wanted to make sure.

Yes, that's my understanding. There's a link in the "Library" section of the forum.

Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:23 pm

Hi Sonic 20000 can you tell me how things tuned out for you? I currently have the same problem I am a female and its terrible! Sad

Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:34 am

Hi, I also had a similar experience with Retin A (in fact anything in the retinoid family tends to have a bad effect)- at first I could not figure out why, then I stumbled across Dermtv, and I now understand where Retin A fits in. (Dr Schultz has many videos explaining things and has taught me a lot- please spend some time checking them out - it really helped me). I hope this helps.

free skin care · Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:22 am

bren21 wrote:

I have always been told that retin-a use directly under the eye should be a VERY slow process...even slower than your all over introduction to retin-a and shouldn't even be directly applied under the eye for several weeks after you start using it. Apparently if you apply it all the way to the upper cheek bone area there will be some retin-a that seeps in to the under eye area which will slowly acclimate that area to the retin-a. Eventually you experiment with applying it under the eyes once in a while and then work your way up in frequency from there.
I am to the point now where I can directly apply it under the eye, every night if I wanted to...but now I am merely in maintainance application.

In your case I would definitely get back to basics, cleanse, moisture (perhaps a nice bio oil like emu), sunscreen until your skin heals itself. Once everything gets back in to order start retin-a slowly and gradually. Any sign of irritation with retin-a means back off it for a few days until that irritation subsides then start applying again. There is always an acclimation period with retin-a and there aren't too many out there that do not get redness/irritation in some form or another. But once your skin gets used to it, the redness should subside such as mine has.

Please don't feel like an idiot...I've burnt the bloody hell out of my skin a few times (Once with MaMa lotion, good lord what a burn! Rolling Eyes

), but we all have skincare snafus! It's how we learn what not to do Wink

I am so surprised people can tolerate anything so acidic in the eye area.

I have a 2% mandelic acid eye cream and can just tolerate that a couple times a week.

Vitamin C in my eye area no matter how small the amt always has me looking like I have a bad sunburn.

For me, the best eye creams are the cheapest ones with the least ingredients...LOL.

Also, to keep wrinkles away get some very good sunglasses, some polarized ones are the best.

After having "snow blindness" or "sunburned eyes" from wearing regular sunglasses outdoors in the winter (and not cheap ones but some $50+ brand name ones) I only ever buy polarized lenses.

If you are not outside that much, it might not matter- but daily I am outside 3+ hours a day, even in winter...

I hope my advice is somewhat ok?
I'm in my 30's on no eye wrinkles at all yet, and no undereye issues...

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