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Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:37 pm  |
| ReCverin wrote: |
| Kassy_A wrote: |
I was being facetious Sis |
Kassy, I assumed you were being facetious. But I must warn anyone reading this thread that the amount of iodine necessary to completely oxidize a single gram of ascorbic acid is a LETHAL DOSE if ingested, and it is easily absorbed through the skin. DO NOT MESS AROUND WITH IODINE. This is not the way our product is made, and not the way you should attempt to copy it.
Kassy, please be more careful about what you say. |
LOL! Perhaps you missed where I said "a couple of drops"... You know, the same amount folks put on a cut to disinfect it.
| Kassy_A wrote: |
For those who want to try oxidized vitamin C serum... Just drop a couple of drops of iodine into your L-AA product.. wala, instant oxidation!  |
Now lets not get carried away and insinuate I'm trying to get folks to experiment with "LETHAL DOSES" of anything.
Carry on with your agenda. I'm not the one with something to sell. I've said my opinion, stand by it, and I'm good with that.
Peace out  |
_________________
♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥ |
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Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:58 pm |
| bacchus wrote: |
I'll let ReCverin speak for himself, but he did say that he's making a distinction between oxidation and degradation. When we loosely use the word "oxidation", we're generally talking about degradation. He's using it in the more chemically correct way ... and the oxidation of LAA to DHAA is *not a bad thing*.
That's the point. DHAA is naturally occurring in our skin (and elsewhere in the body, but predominantly in the skin) and is more readily absorbed through the stratum corneum where it is than converted back into LAA.
He is not suggesting using degraded LAA. |
Thank you, bacchus, for expressing these concepts so succinctly and correctly. I don't need to speak for myself when someone else says what I want to say better than I can say it myself! |
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Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:26 am |
As dumb as this is going to sound, I will not apologize for posting this analogy, because it is an excellent way to understand how vitamin C is used in your body:
A vitamin C molecule can be thought of as a little wheelbarrow that carries electrons. A full wheelbarrow is called AA, and an empty one is called DHAA. Your body uses these little wheelbarrows to deliver electrons where they are needed. For example, sometimes the body uses the wheelbarrow to dump electrons on "free radicals." After a full wheelbarrow (AA) dumps its electrons, it becomes an empty one (DHAA). Then the body sends the empty one back to get more electrons. Each wheelbarrow is used many times, until it finally wears out, and then the body needs to get a replacement wheelbarrow.
Your body doesn't care if the new wheelbarrow is full or not. Your body has plenty of electrons, it just needs wheelbarrows to transport them.
People who do not understand vitamin C "recycling" cannot perceive why you might want to put empty wheelbarrows on your skin. |
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Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:02 am |
Thank you to both Bacchus and Receverin!( eek spelling!! sorry)
Both your posts make sense!
Its the wheelbarrow that matters . |
_________________
46 got (PMD,Caci,QuasarMD,Tria , skin spatula) Using, environ , myfawnie serums, lacsal, retinol, GHk probably more but too embarrased to say |
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Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:11 pm |
| ReCverin wrote: |
| Kassy_A wrote: |
I was being facetious Sis |
Kassy, I assumed you were being facetious. But I must warn anyone reading this thread that the amount of iodine necessary to completely oxidize a single gram of ascorbic acid is a LETHAL DOSE if ingested, and it is easily absorbed through the skin. DO NOT MESS AROUND WITH IODINE. This is not the way our product is made, and not the way you should attempt to copy it.
Kassy, please be more careful about what you say. |
Thanks D....I'm very interested in this chemistry. I have done the DIY gamut of fresh vit C (LAA, etc -copying the Pinnel mode (used Kassy's version and others - still do my own) However - I dose internally with iodine for health reasons.  - Use Lugol's in water.. Still living and breathing so far as I can tell.
The main point for us on EDS: It's a departure to wrap around the concept of oxidized Vit C... We have regarded it for so long as a negative and almost as a contaminent of skin Vs having an understanding of it as a positive value for the skin.
Thank you for providing us with an understanding of something outside our box. |
_________________
Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:41 am |
hello there, I realize I am late to the discussion, but I have read the overview of it.
Is there any independent research information available on this product?
Thank you, BFG |
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Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:44 pm |
| Barefootgirl wrote: |
hello there, I realize I am late to the discussion, but I have read the overview of it.
Is there any independent research information available on this product?
Thank you, BFG |
I'm so sorry for such a late reply, BFG. Independent research on DHAA itself is abundant; I've posted links to only a small number of such studies throughout this thread. Independent research on our product specifically, though, isn't available. We are small, and lack the resources to fund the kind of "independent" research that some companies can.
However, I am certainly encouraged that our efforts to overcome the negative perception of oxidized vitamin C are slowly but surely working. Your inquiry is another positive sign that more and more people are listening and wanting to understand the true nature of vitamin C in health and skin care. Thank you. |
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Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:22 am |
Yes, I see where you are coming from.
Nevertheless, independent research wouldn't truly be independent if your company funded it.... right?
In the research studies posted, did they examine the exact same formula as that sold by your company?
Thanks again, BFG |
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Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:07 am |
| Barefootgirl wrote: |
| In the research studies posted, did they examine the exact same formula as that sold by your company? |
| ReCverin wrote: |
| http://www.researchgate.net/publication/225274699_Topical_Dehydroascorbic_Acid_%28Oxidized_Vitamin_C%29_Permeates_Stratum_Corneum_More_Rapidly_Than_Ascorbic_Acid.htm |
This study, that I posted a link to previously, used our exact formulation diluted with equal parts water. This is not an independent study; it is a report of research performed by our company.
Most of the other links that I have posted in various parts of this thread are studies that were done "in vitro" using DHAA that was created in the lab or purchased as a powder. The source of the materials used is described in each study. These are independent studies by researchers not associated in any way with our company. |
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Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:40 am |
ReCvrin, just posting to say that I've tried your serum and with it being pure glycerin it's just too sticky. I don't even use make-up and I can't stand it on my skin all day. Most women wear make-up and I don't think this will go under make-up at all. Even in my 20's when glycerin was one of my two standard moisturizers (the other being the old stand-by Vaseline ), I cut the glycerin with a lot of water. It was probably 30% glycerin, 70% water. That was the consistency that felt clean but still did the job of moisturizing.
Is there any way you could cut your serum with water? I don't think it's going to be as successful as it could be unless you find a way to cut the glycerin. Water's the cleanest thing. |
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Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:06 am |
Yubs, the directions on their website do say to mix with water to your preferred "feel".
They won't pre-mix with water because it would destabilize it, I guess.
I'm excited to hear your review of this. Please do keep us posted. |
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Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:36 am |
bacchus, thanks for telling me that! I did not catch it at all.
I actually thought about diluting it myself but didn't because I figured that would mess up the vitamin C concentration.
So I guess that's a good question for RCevrin...how can the consumer dilute the product and still get a reliable Vitamin C concentration with every application? |
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Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:36 am |
I've tried this serum myself and did find the glycerin wayyy too shiney and sticky. I do splash my face with water before hand and it is still too sticky and shiney.
I have stopped using my CPs while I'm trying this, but I am continuing with my Retin A Micro and 2%BHA. I have tried to offset the shine from this serum by applying the serum after a one hour wait time after my Retin A in the PM (so that I only have the shine during bedtime). I have also tried using it for just a few hours in the AM and then washing it off. I just can't take the shine on my face.
It is less stickey if it is diluted with water, but the shine still exists.
I do find this serum fairly moisturizing, though. Or, it could be called 'hydrating' (?)
I have a couple of areas that are drier than the rest of my facial skin (damaged areas that have slowly improved over the years with CP use, but still need more improvement), and this serum gets rid of that dryness. I also see some stubborn blackheads disappearing on me- which I attribute to my skin being more 'hydrated'. I have been told in the past by estiticians that my skin is dehydrated and I believe that is why my blackheads are so very stubborn. Estiticians' have had a terrible time in the past trying to do extractions on me during facials.
I plan on doing a major roll next week, and wanted to try this in preparation for that. It is tricky trying to fit it into my daily routine, though. |
_________________
early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:07 pm |
| bacchus wrote: |
Yubs, the directions on their website do say to mix with water to your preferred "feel".
They won't pre-mix with water because it would destabilize it, I guess.
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But because it's already oxidised, isn't it already destabilised?  |
_________________
Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:19 pm |
| The research studies on the benefits of DHAA maybe valid, your product is not well received by the mass because it is not cosmetically elegant, though! |
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Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:40 am |
If it's shown to be effective, but not elegant, it seems the only use would be at night while sleeping.
BFG |
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Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:17 am |
IMHO it would be okay in the daytime if the concentration of glycerin were cut. I used glycerin and water for years as my moisturizer for nearly two decades, until I started reading Skin Bio and Loren Pickart's assertion that glycerin is bad for the skin barrier. That idea wormed its way into my head so I stopped using it. Dunno the truth or falsity of it...kind of an irrational prejudice for the most part, considering I did well with glycerin and water all those years. It's pretty good for daily use as long as the consistency too glycerin-heavy.
One solution to this problem might be for RCeverin to up the concentration of DHAA and l-ascorbic in the glycerin, and then include directions for consumers to dilute in small batches with water, down to a consistency that can be tolerated for every day wear while still retaining a useful concentration of vitamin C. |
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Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:35 am |
I did this little experiment a few weeks ago...this is a c/p from another forum:
| Quote: |
I decided to test my tolerance for various concentrations of glycerin. I generally don't like the feeling of humectants ... like I'm sweating underneath that layer of goo. Gross.
The ReCverin stuff is supposedly straight glycerin, no water, for stability reasons. Then you're supposed to either apply to a damp face, or mix with water and apply. Or simply allow the humidity in the air slowly help release the LAA. Basically just like the anhydrous C recipe we have here on another thread - the one with oils.
I made 3 different versions of this, all with LAA in them, although that wasn't really the point. Just trying to see how much glycerin I could cope with ...
1) 10% LAA in glycerin, diluted with water to 5%
Gly .9g
LAA .1g
H20 1g
2) 20% LAA in glycerin, diluted with water to 5%
Gly .4g
LAA .1g
H20 1.5g
3) 40% LAA in glycerin, diluted with water to 10%
Gly .3g
LAA .2g
H20 1.5g
For all 3, I "spatulated" the glycerin and LAA first and then added the H20 just before slapping on my face. I actually did #1 and #2 simultaneously as a split face thing. They both result in 5% LAA, which is same as ReCverin if you follow instructions to use 50/50 with H20.
#3 is 10% LAA, after adding water.
#3 by far the most tolerable, for me. I have to say that, even though #1 felt gross and oily and sticky, it looked fine. In fact, wearing this overnight made my skin look tastic. Really plumped up and almost poreless in the morning. Nice!
Ultimately, I'd like to not have to measure this every day, so I also need to take into consideration how to store the glycerin/LAA mixture. Version #3 is really almost a paste, so would have to go into a jar, I guess. But it's stable so that would be OK. I guess could use with a little scoop... then 3 scoops water, mix in my palm and slap and go ... |
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Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:13 pm |
| baccus - do you use any other actives? Thanks for your input on the various recipes and feel. I'm sure diluting it more with water will help, but I'm thinking I'll have to plan ahead in the evenings to get both my Retin A in AND this ReCverin in |
_________________
early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Sun Aug 25, 2013 5:43 pm |
| bacchus wrote: |
| I guess could use with a little scoop... then 3 scoops water, mix in my palm and slap and go ... |
I've been using this method of application for years and can't understand why more people don't use it. |
_________________
Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:57 pm |
| Ive been mixing 2 gtts of the ReCvrin 50/50 serum in the palm of my hand with another AA2G/ethyl ascorbic acid serum that is oil free and a bit "too" dry feeling. So the resulting "Quadruple C" serum is just-about-right-feeling. Too soon to tell if this is the Perfect Mix but it def feels better this way. As DragoN sez, "Always a workaround!" |
_________________
✪ My go-to products: MyFawnie.BigCartel.com ✪ |
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Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:06 pm |
| Keliu wrote: |
| bacchus wrote: |
| I guess could use with a little scoop... then 3 scoops water, mix in my palm and slap and go ... |
I've been using this method of application for years and can't understand why more people don't use it. |
Its not a bad idea really. Thats what Osmosis has us do with their $80 retinaldehyde powder: mix one scoop with any other serum and slap it on! << and that stuff is G R I T T Y. |
_________________
✪ My go-to products: MyFawnie.BigCartel.com ✪ |
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Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:28 am |
| fawnie wrote: |
Its not a bad idea really. Thats what Osmosis has us do with their $80 retinaldehyde powder: mix one scoop with any other serum and slap it on! << and that stuff is G R I T T Y. |
Yep, one thing about the LAA is that it has to be the micronised, easily dissolved powder. |
_________________
Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:46 am |
Update: I tried the RCeverin 50/50 DHAA/LAA product mixed every-which way this weekend: on damp face, mixed with water, and mixed with moisturizer. The only way it is not too thick and sticky is if it is mixed with water to the point where the vitamin C is of questionable usefulness because of the dilution of the glycerin.
I'm going to keep trying since I have most of a bottle to go, but don't hold out much hope. Unless RCeverin can up the concentration of their vitamin C so that customers can dilute it down to the appropriate level of actives as well as an acceptable level of glycerin feel on the skin, I can't buy it again. Shame, because I wanted to like this product because of the DHAA. |
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Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:38 am |
Yubs,
If it feels wasteful to you (as it would to me also!) you can take it as an internal supplement instead. |
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