Up to date photos - Facial Exercise Program Founders
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free skin care · Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:27 pm

I know the suggestion that the founders should post completely bare faces has come up but I know when this has been done, we have not been presented with a full face and the absence of makeup was the reason given for that...whic,h defeats the purpose of showing us how the entire face is holding up. To be honest, I don't know what not having makeup could tell us about the person other than they have freckles or age spots or marks on their skin. The makeup does not add or take away from the lift and smoothing out that exercise effects. I once shared on this in another thread:

Nonie aka AD wrote:

[...]
On the point of makeup here's a beautiful woman in her 60's. No amount of makeup could hide the lines she has:

And just to make it a fair comparison, I've minimized her photo so it's not so much of a close-up:

(Which reminds me, I don't know if you know the story of how this thinking is what prompted me to learn face exercises rather than learn how to apply makeup. You see, I had gone to WH Smith to buy a how-to book on makeup, but while in the health and beauty aisle, Eva's book caught my attention. The idea of being able to stop the aging process--that's what I understood exercises were to do from the casual browsing of her book--appealed to me because I thought looking toned when I was older would be so much better than wearing makeup on a wrinkled face. Needless to say, I'm still clueless on makeup. Laughing

)

[...]

Besides, all previous photos were taken with makeup, so wouldn't keeping the uniformity help us see how well the exercises have improved or maintained the faces? Insisting on bare-faced photos would be like expecting fitness trainers to post pictures of themselves in the nude so we can see how well they are maintaining their bodies. Laughing

Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:21 am

Nonie.....55 year old male here.....I've been using Flex Effect for at least 12 years now ( maybe longer)...When I bought it it came in VHS.....Family members snicker and laugh when they mention I have very few if any wrinkles and I tell them it's because I exercise my facial muscles....Big joke to them and yet they see a difference.......I'm very aggressive and tend to think those who have posted negative results just do not grasp how the exercises are done and perform them correctly....The bags that were under my eyes at 35 are greatly diminished and my entire face is much fuller from the cheek muscles that have provided not only lift but fullness around the nose area.....IT WORKS....Will not let me post a link but if your curious enough go to YouTube and type in "A Wink And A Smile - John Perry" ( I filmed this about 3 to 4 months ago ), no makeup, never use it, can't stand the stuff......55 and going strong....Those familiar with facial muscles can see the buildup around the cheeks, under the eyes, around the nose, the chin ect.......Many thanks to my discovery of Deb and her program Flex Effect years ago (I have no connection to Deb Crowley ) Have never met her or spoken with her, stand to gain nothing from this post, but can attest from personal results that an aggressive program that you stick with has the payoff.....Take care

free skin care · Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:53 am

You do look good jrp0610. Good for you.

But with all due respect, I don't think it was bad form that led to my bad results. I was not only extra careful even with 15 years under my belt of doing face exercises, but I also tried to stay in touch with Deb to make sure I was really supposed to be that aggressive. If there's one thing I pride myself in is being able to mimic movements and BTW, in the 15 years I did face exercises, I did them from a book looking at images not a video and got it right. So with a DVD, there was no way I could screw that up.

I stuck with the program even when my face continued to get worse with each passing day, trusting that the "awkward stage" was going to pass as I was promised. After over a 100 days of giving the program the benefit of the doubt and my face getting worse progressively, and no support whatsoever, I had to quit and I have no regrets for doing that. My regret was giving the program that long a run when my instincts told me to quit way before. Guess I'm a little too trusting.

Maybe you have tougher skin than I do. Also I do believe that face-building works better for people who have lost mass in their face and many people who have never done face exercise may look a touch gaunt in their 40's so perhaps that's another reason it worked for you. I had maintained the fullness of my face as it was in my 20's by the age of 35 with exercise, so I do not think I needed any face-building. I still think young people would do better with just toning which is what Eva's program (the program I did for 15 years) mostly offered. Many don't agree with me, but that's OK.

Anyway since I stopped being that aggressive, and switched to a gentler program, my face has regained its beautiful tone and contours as you can see from my progress photos on the CFF website.

As long as we're both happy with our choices, I say different strokes for different folks. As the song goes, "Now the world don't move to the beat of just one drum, what might be right for you may not be right for some..." Indeed "It takes Diff'rent Strokes to move the world!" Wink

Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:04 am

" Indeed "It takes Diff'rent Strokes to move the world!"

It sure does my friend!!!....All the best of luck to you and that pretty face of yours.....JP

free skin care · Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:40 pm

Nonie wrote

Quote:

but I also tried to stay in touch with Deb to make sure I was really supposed to be that aggressive.

Nonie, when are you going to give it a rest. You NEVER spoke to me or got in-touch with me regarding training EVER.. or does the word 'tired' get you off the hook?

All these years and you still chose NOT to tell me who you are so that I and everybody else can KNOW you actually bought my program.

While you were on my forum causing trouble I asked you back then several times "Who are you" just so I could believe you were truly a Flexer. You said "you didn't owe me anything" Yet you continue to say "you were begging for my help"

The very fact that you still have on Carolyn's website (Nonie’s Story) saying you didn't know who Carolyn was at the time your face was being destroyed by FlexEffect Girl, you gotta know I still have the PMs proving you wrote to others while you were on the Flex forum recommending Carolyn’s program

Come-on you surely remember the EDS thread that was deleted when all hell broke out that had all that information on it.

Nonie, don't think there aren’t those on this forum who don't know the real truth...just because they don't feel comfortable stepping-up to call you out. They too know how simple it would be for you to prove me wrong.. yet still nothing... You just continue your BS

And BTW... Carolyn also KNOWS you knew her while you were on my forum... yet she also puts up that BS ... Real Admirable.

Below is part of the story you and Carolyn came up with on Carolyn’s site

“But after a year, my face was still a sad story. Although it didn't feel "swollen" anymore, the rolls under my eyes were still there and they were very lined. I would look at photos of my eyes from June/July 2005 when I had no lines and no puffing under my eyes when I smiled, and tears would just well up inside. Needless to say, I was very insecure/unsure about trying another new program and thought I would just go back to the isometrics that had never let me down. But by some very unusual circumstances, I found out about Carolyn's Facial Fitness and was very intrigued by her program. I liked the idea that she developed her program after reviewing many programs out there and creatively came up with her own program - saving us the trouble.”

Link to page site http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/nonie

Nonie I have to say… you are right; there is a HUGE difference between your BEFORE photo and your AFTER photo HIDDEN way down at the bottom of the page. Amazing progress in just 8 months GOOD JOB! But I got to be honest… I think you look far younger in your before pic… just sayin.

So let me cut to the chase... You and Carolyn made up the entire BS together. You came into my forum via Carolyn when Carolyn was PO'd over a fight she and some of my trainers were having. You have used this story for years now...whenever and wherever you get the chance.

Carolyn I know you are reading this... copy and paste it ...Your husband is an attorney... BRING IT!

[moderated]

free skin care · Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:03 pm

Good heavens. Over the top much, Deb? That I can see, Nonie's remarks were nothing to flip over.

This is the kind of stuff that really turns me off about forums. I reported Deb Crowley's last post. Let's hope the unfounded insinuations (Nonie is a troll or is Carolyn, etc.) and name-calling are done.

There is a difference between telling your story (for example, saying that you can't get in touch with a certain vendor) and making unfounded accusations (a member is a troll or not who she claims to be). I think we all know the difference.

Deb, no offense. I've got the last two editions of your program and you've given me good customer service in the past. But this type of thing doesn't contribute anything positive to the dynamics here, and many of us just don't like the drama. PM or email is a better venue for this type of screed.

free skin care · Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:13 pm

Ewww ! Deb, won't you relax ? I can't understand how you can write such a virulent post after John Perry was such a gentleman towards Nonie,and after he gave such a nice testimony of his excellent experience following the FlexEffect program.
Instead of basking in his praises, you attack Nonie !!! And Carolyn who has her own face exercising program, calling them both names.
Bring on the attorney ? Surely you jest.

free skin care · Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:23 pm

@Yubs, perhaps you should just let Deb have her say, and not swoop in to be the thread police all the time..Seriously!

You obviously are unaware of the back handed tormenting Nonie inflicts on Deb and her program, every chance she gets..

Anyhoo, Deb is always a lady, and I'm happy to see her finally have her say.

free skin care · Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:29 pm

I agree with Kassy. And I am still surprised that there are no other stories of people having the same trouble from Flex Effect. If it's a flaw in the program, others should have the same trouble and it would have popped up here in one of the many facial exercise threads over the years.

free skin care · Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:42 pm

Kassy_A wrote:

@Yubs, perhaps you should just let Deb have her say, and not swoop in to be the thread police all the time..Seriously!

You obviously are unaware of the back handed tormenting Nonie inflicts on Deb and her program, every chance she gets..

Anyhoo, Deb is always a lady, and I'm happy to see her finally have her say.

Hmmm. Seems like people don't like it when others are called on dumb high school dynamics on a woman's forum. And that's exactly what stuff like this is: adolescent bickering.

Is it even possible for women to get together and not act like this? I'm beginning to wonder. Seriously. There's a guy's forum I go on where they don't act like this, and it's pretty pleasant. I wish they had the information about skincare there I needed. I feel compelled to read everything here because you never know where a valuable nugget of information is going to pop-up...even in threads that you don't have much interest in or that make you grit your teeth. Sometimes my OCD just gets the better of my good judgment, and then posts like this happen. Laughing

Soooo...anyways, sorry if you don't like my comments, Kassy. But please note that I don't attack the poster, only the tone or content of certain remarks, even if people seem to take it generally personally.

We all get snarky and backhanded sometimes. That is not my issue. My issue is with constant insults (oblique or outright), unfounded accusations that may be self-evident or proven to a few but are NOT to the vast majority of forum users, and name-calling.

The great thing about forums is that everyone has a say, and this is mine. Further, I'm not the only one that thinks these things, I'm just the only one ill-advised enough to say them out loud. Others don't really seem to want to get ostracized by the "big time posters" here, who are in large measure responsible for these dynamics, but I do get PM's here and there about it. Bottom line is I get tired of the stuff like this that keeps happening. It makes the forum a less pleasant place to be on, and it's so very high school.

It will be interesting to see how many thank you's your post racks up, though. Laughing

Lotusesther wrote:

I agree with Kassy. And I am still surprised that there are no other stories of people having the same trouble from Flex Effect. If it's a flaw in the program, others should have the same trouble and it would have popped up here in one of the many facial exercise threads over the years.

Lotusesther, I do not like FlexEffect, either. It made me look tired and stressed in a very short amount of time. However, I was not a distressed about it as Nonie apparently is, because I didn't spend years looking good on another program. But I HAVE heard of other bad stories about Flex Effect and even recall reading some here back in the day when it was all the chatter.

What I do observe is that while there aren't many "horror stories" like Nonie's, many former FE enthusiasts are not as enthusiastic, either.

At any rate, this is not about the ongoing feud between Deb and Nonie. It's about Deb making unfounded insinuations and calling names. In whose book does that make one a lady, exactly?

Let the pile-on begin. I am the devil with a keyboard, no?

Peace out, y'all.

free skin care · Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:03 pm

I see the word "unfounded" being used a lot, which means "having no foundation or basis in fact."

Wouldn't someone need to be familiar with all the details in order to make such a definitive statement?

free skin care · Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:03 pm

Yes, if the quote from Nonie was the reason to go off...You're right... over kill. But, I know you guys have been around long enough to know what this is about.

Those of you new to this forum I apologize...

Under Nonie's newest 2013 photo on Carolyn's site reads:

Dear Carolyn: As you know, before I started your program in Jan 2007,my previous years of face exercises had been virtually undone, in just over a year prior,by another face exercise program.

Isn't a great photo enough with praise given to Carolyn... why again same BS

Really, again. Every opportunity. If the post is not for the public to know who she is talking about than definitely for me to know.

Here is how it goes on all the other forums she is on....Oh Nonie... please tell us, who's program did that to you.

It is now 2013...it started in 2005 so 8 years is still not enough Really? If it were the truth (she trained with my program and she had a problem with it or at least she believed it) I would have nothing to say. But not for a lie.

But you are right. This isn't the place to unload. I'll find a better place

free skin care · Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:13 pm

bethany wrote:

I see the word "unfounded" being used a lot, which means "having no foundation or basis in fact."

Wouldn't someone need to be familiar with all the details in order to make such a definitive statement?

Unfounded does mean no basis in facts. But allegations and dark hints that facts are known to some but can't be disclosed to all *do not count* as facts. Occam's Razor aside, theorizing the reasons behind and connections between seemingly related events (i.e., coincidences) *does not* count as fact, either.

Just because you can make a connection in your mind to Events A and B does not mean that C is the only conclusion possible. Often it is, but I've experienced it NOT to be so enough in my life that I'm no longer willing to believe dark hints and insinuations. Especially when someone's reputation is on the line, I'd like to see a little more proof that A + B = C.

Therefore, AFAIC, any accusations made that are not proven by publicly disclosed facts are de facto"unfounded". At least, until facts are disclosed. Until then, they're just unfounded insinuation and allegations.

free skin care · Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:18 pm

Deb Crowley wrote:

Yes, if the quote from Nonie was the reason to go off...You're right... over kill. But, I know you guys have been around long enough to know what this is about.

Those of you new to this forum I apologize...

Under Nonie's newest 2013 photo on Carolyn's site reads:

Dear Carolyn: As you know, before I started your program in Jan 2007,my previous years of face exercises had been virtually undone, in just over a year prior,by another face exercise program.

Isn't a great photo enough with praise given to Carolyn... why again same BS

Really, again. Every opportunity. If the post is not for the public to know who she is talking about than definitely for me to know.

Here is how it goes on all the other forums she is on....Oh Nonie... please tell us, who's program did that to you.

It is now 2013...it started in 2005 so 8 years is still not enough Really? If it were the truth (she trained with my program and she had a problem with it or at least she believed it) I would have nothing to say. But not for a lie.

But you are right. This isn't the place to unload. I'll find a better place

Deb, thank you for not misunderstanding my remarks. I appreciate it, and must say you *do* have lots of class. Smile

free skin care · Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:48 pm

Lord have mercy!

Since I'm not a "big time poster", and barely have the time to get here once or twice a week, I'll now get back to frying my chicken cutlets...lol

free skin care · Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:05 pm

Sheesh gotta add my two cents, I've seen Nonie's B&A photos, and honestly I don't see what the "beef" is or was. It's not like she turned into the Elephant Man or something using Flex Effect. In fact, I think Nonie looks great in ALL her photos -- Befores and Afters. Suffice it to say, it's her face so she's certainly entitled to her opinion. But, I have to agree at every corner and on every thread where there's an opportunity awaiting, something WILL BE posted about her perceived bad experience, photos included. So can't say that I blame ya in the least Deb...it's been a looooong time comein'. Laughing

free skin care · Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:06 pm

Kassy_A wrote:

Lord have mercy!

Since I'm not a "big time poster", and barely have the time to get here once or twice a week, I'll now get back to frying my chicken cutlets...lol

No, you're not.

None of us are, all the time, or even most of the time. But it only takes a little bit of time to muck things up and get another running spat going.

And you know, I was just looking at your sig line...I don't have one of those things, either. Never have, apparently.

free skin care · Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:47 pm

Kassy_A wrote:

@Yubs, perhaps you should just let Deb have her say, and not swoop in to be the thread police all the time..Seriously!

You obviously are unaware of the back handed tormenting Nonie inflicts on Deb and her program, every chance she gets..

Anyhoo, Deb is always a lady, and I'm happy to see her finally have her say.

Totally agree with Kassy! I don't think anyone else here would like to stand by and not defend themselves. If the same person repeatedly tried to tarnish your reputation or business, you might have a strong reaction too.

free skin care · Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:23 am

Deb Crowley wrote:

Nonie wrote

Quote:

but I also tried to stay in touch with Deb to make sure I was really supposed to be that aggressive.

Nonie, when are you going to give it a rest. You NEVER spoke to me or got in-touch with me regarding training EVER.. or does the word 'tired' get you off the hook?

All these years and you still chose NOT to tell me who you are so that I and everybody else can KNOW you actually bought my program.

While you were on my forum causing trouble I asked you back then several times "Who are you" just so I could believe you were truly a Flexer. You said "you didn't owe me anything" Yet you continue to say "you were begging for my help"

The very fact that you still have on Carolyn's website (Nonie’s Story) saying you didn't know who Carolyn was at the time your face was being destroyed by FlexEffect Girl, you gotta know I still have the PMs proving you wrote to others while you were on the Flex forum recommending Carolyn’s program

Come-on you surely remember the EDS thread that was deleted when all hell broke out that had all that information on it.

Nonie, don't think there aren’t those on this forum who don't know the real truth...just because they don't feel comfortable stepping-up to call you out. They too know how simple it would be for you to prove me wrong.. yet still nothing... You just continue your BS

And BTW... Carolyn also KNOWS you knew her while you were on my forum... yet she also puts up that BS ... Real Admirable.

Below is part of the story you and Carolyn came up with on Carolyn’s site

“But after a year, my face was still a sad story. Although it didn't feel "swollen" anymore, the rolls under my eyes were still there and they were very lined. I would look at photos of my eyes from June/July 2005 when I had no lines and no puffing under my eyes when I smiled, and tears would just well up inside. Needless to say, I was very insecure/unsure about trying another new program and thought I would just go back to the isometrics that had never let me down. But by some very unusual circumstances, I found out about Carolyn's Facial Fitness and was very intrigued by her program. I liked the idea that she developed her program after reviewing many programs out there and creatively came up with her own program - saving us the trouble.”

Link to page site http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/nonie

Nonie I have to say… you are right; there is a HUGE difference between your BEFORE photo and your AFTER photo HIDDEN way down at the bottom of the page. Amazing progress in just 8 months GOOD JOB! But I got to be honest… I think you look far younger in your before pic… just sayin.

So let me cut to the chase... You and Carolyn made up the entire BS together. You came into my forum via Carolyn when Carolyn was PO'd over a fight she and some of my trainers were having. You have used this story for years now...whenever and wherever you get the chance.

Carolyn I know you are reading this... copy and paste it ...Your husband is an attorney... BRING IT!

Deb Crowley wrote:

Yes, if the quote from Nonie was the reason to go off...You're right... over kill. But, I know you guys have been around long enough to know what this is about.

Those of you new to this forum I apologize...

Under Nonie's newest 2013 photo on Carolyn's site reads:

Dear Carolyn: As you know, before I started your program in Jan 2007,my previous years of face exercises had been virtually undone, in just over a year prior,by another face exercise program.

Isn't a great photo enough with praise given to Carolyn... why again same BS

Really, again. Every opportunity. If the post is not for the public to know who she is talking about than definitely for me to know.

Here is how it goes on all the other forums she is on....Oh Nonie... please tell us, who's program did that to you.

It is now 2013...it started in 2005 so 8 years is still not enough Really? If it were the truth (she trained with my program and she had a problem with it or at least she believed it) I would have nothing to say. But not for a lie.

But you are right. This isn't the place to unload. I'll find a better place

-I did try to contact you many times via email, phone and even PM, but all in vain. I even reached out to Marci Frank since all you online trainers were MIA from October 2005 when I joined the forum to March 2006 when I was banned. If anyone thinks I'm lying, they can look at your posts and they will see you had a post on Sept 16, 2005 where you were responding to a Lois then your next post after that was on March 7, 2006 when you came to tell us PC was going to be a moderator and that you can't be on the computer as much as you'd like.

-Deb, you never asked me anything while I was on your forum because you never communicated with me even once between October 2005 and March 2006 which was the time I was on your forum. In fact, IIRC Sept 28, 2005 was the last time any of the trainers (Jason, you or Olympia) ever posted. I remember that date because I even asked Marci if there was anything special about that date. I actually joined the forum because you didn't return my calls or emails, in the hopes of reaching you that way. I had noticed that in September while you were ignoring my VM messages and emails, you were active on the forum so I joined to send you PMs which you never answered. If you had been in touch at all, trust me, I would not have been contacting Marci who wasn't even an online trainer after my many failed attempts to reach any of you online trainers to get help. She relayed my message to you in person that we needed you on the forum. Still it wasn't enough to make you care enough to come help us. Why would I lie about this or anything to do with my experience with FE? What do I have to gain?

- It is not true that you asked who I was in the time I was on the forum because as I stated above, we never interacted in that time at all. Did you forget that you were absent from the FE forum all that time I was there? So how could you have asked me anything? You asked who I was over 5 years AFTER I left FE and while I was actually a member of EDS circa 2011. You initially sent your messengers to ask me here on EDS before you asked me yourself and it was then that I told you through them that I owed you nothing and I still maintain I owe you jack. (Actually unless you use another persona on the forum, I have never told you directly that I owe you nothing. This is the first time I am telling YOU directly.) Back when I needed you, you wouldn't have had to ask for anything and I'd have given anything to get your help. Now I don't need you and I am not obligated to give you anything. So quit asking me for anything. I'm not in the habit of giving people who treat me horribly things. What's more, isn't it ironic how you can claim with such emphasis that I never contacted you then in the same breath ask who I am because you don't even remember me? Or can't you keep your story straight? Also didn't you once post here on EDS--a post that was deleted after your false accusations were exposed--that Carolyn called you crying about her face twice? A case of mistaken identity perhaps? Clearly you do remember my calls or you would not have given such a clear account regarding someone else if it never happened. After all, I was indeed in tears in my second and last call to get through to you because I was upset about my eyes looking horrible when I had followed your direction. Now in 2006, you were convinced that Agedefyer (my name then hence the AD in my name now) was Carolyn Cleaves, or so you told people. So could it be that you are still mixing us up? It was during my call to you when I was crying that you told me about the "awkward stage" that I have to go through and assured me that your eyes too went through that before you came out looking as you do in that photo with the blue background that was on the kit materials. You also told me I had to "work harder" to get past that awkward stage. The call I made to you before that was to ask you if I was supposed to be as aggressive pulling down on my eyes as your DVD showed and you assured me yes, it was the way to get results. I was not crying during that first call as I had only watched your DVD and was yet to start your program so my face still looked fine.

- I never caused problems on your forum. I did what I do here, which is give advice. In fact it wasn't until a newbie called doozie showed up on March 4, 2006 and got a negative reaction after mentioning having seen you and I explained to her on the forum why everyone was mad with you that you can actually accuse me of stating anything negative about you Deborah Crowley publicly on your forum. But it was after others beat me to the punch and expressed annoyance at your absence on the forum. In fact, back when this was posted, the FE Forum wasn't locked as it is now so anyone who had Internet access could view the thread before it got deleted. Lucky for me, I saved it exactly as it appeared. It took that March 2006 uproar in that thread to bring you on-board to post the very first post since you last posted in Sept 2005, which is the post of March 7, 2006 I mentioned above.

- Nowhere on the CFF website have I stated that I didn't know of Carolyn's program when FE was messing my face up, so please do not put words into my "mouth". I just didn't spell out what the "very unusual circumstances" by which I found Carolyn were so whatever inference you made sounds like you got the wrong end of the stick. Really, you lost me on what in that statement says I did not know of Carolyn when I was struggling with FE. It is a fact that I didn't commit to Carolyn's Facial Fitness program until 2007 even though I knew of it before that. Just like I bought your program in winter 2005 but didn't start to do it till July 2005. BTW, I also have a lot of other programs that I own but don't do but enjoyed reading through or watching when I got them. I think this is something a lot of people into hobbies of any kind do: look into different things related to their hobby. But I do like to commit to just one program at a time. (Well, I'm doing Tom Hagerty's too so I guess I am committing to two at the moment).

- Yes it is 2013 and my FE experience was in 2005. But what has that got to do with price of eggs? My experience with Eva started in 1990 and is no more but guess what, I still talk about Eva even though it was before FE. Heck I even go as far as talking about myself back when I was a baby 40 years ago. So because it is my life, it is my prerogative to tell about it whatever I want to. Hence I will not avoid talking about my experience with FE if the discussion warrants it because my FE experience is part of my face exercise journey. Unlike most people who have only been able to either have bad experiences or have good experiences with face exercises, I am lucky in that I can give a testament of not just the good side of face exercises but I can also validate those who say face exercises make faces worse. I have not only witnessed face exercise keeping wrinkles at bay firsthand but I have witnessed them create wrinkles firsthand and then I have also witnessed them remove wrinkles if you have them firsthand. My experience with these facets of face exercises puts me in a position where I can actually speak with confidence from experience. I have told people that it is safe to start face exercises when young to keep wrinkles at bay, so if I don't talk about FE, then my previous statement sounds like a lie because it is indeed a fact that down the road I did develop wrinkles and need to fix them even though I did start face exercises to keep wrinkles at bay. To just talk about Eva's program without talking about FE would seem to imply that Eva's program eventually gives one wrinkles and puffy eyes. But that was not my experience. How can I talk of keeping signs of aging at bay with exercise and then not explain why I needed to fix signs of aging that I claim face exercises prevent? People post about having bad experiences with different programs all the time. So I don't know what makes FE apparently out of bounds.

- Never did I recommend CFF to anyone on the FE forum. Not even in PMs. I did recommend Eva's program because I knew what it was capable of. I didn't know what CFF could do and didn't know enough about it to recommend it to anyone. I did tell someone that I was trying out a forehead exercise from CFF in a PM which is the only PM you have ever been able to post as proof when you were telling everyone that I "was Carolyn" on your forum trying to promote "my program". I never told anyone to do her program. I was sharing what I was trying out. But I did tell people in no uncertain terms in PM that I think Eva's program is better for young faces because I started to believe that when my own face started to look bad. I even posted this sentiment on your forum and have maintained that stand even on this forum: That I don't think facebuilding is for people who have not lost mass in their face. Why would they need to BUILD on a face that is already full?

- I do not "come up with any story together with Carolyn". Unlike you who feeds people who didn't know me with untruths so they can attack me on forums, I work alone. Carolyn doesn't have any control on what I write. I have a mind of my own, thank you very much. I am very happy with her program and so I write to her what I want her to post and I share my positive experience here too. I also had a very good experience with Eva's program and have had a good experience with Tom's so I sing their praises here too. My stating on my latest review of CFF that it was as if I had never done face exercises because of what FE did is actually accurate because everyone who sees my face at 36 post-FE actually says I looked my age. In other words, I looked like what a regular 36-year old who lives a healthy lifestyle looks like--that is, one who has not done face exercises for 15 years to maintain her 20-something face. A few months before FE, I used to be told I looked like a 20-something, thanks to Eva's Facial Fitness program. Point being that FE totally put me at the same starting point as someone who had never done face exercises. And why is this important? Why mention it? Because it does give hope to those who start face exercises at 37 without ever having done them before. But the fact that I do have a history of face exercises way before that is important because it also explains the fast turn around of my face. To leave any of that information out would be misleading as it would have people expecting the same quick results in such a short time. By putting everything on the table folks can assess my photos accurately.

- Anyway, I have no problems posting proof, but the last time I did, it was taken down. So if Havana8 gives me the OK to post proof, then I will be happy to present it for everyone's review. I don't ever say or post anything I cannot back up. If Havana8 does not give me the OK to post proof, then I have said all I need to say on this matter. Besides, this thread is supposed to celebrate face exercise founders and show off their progress, which is what I have tried to do and encourage so can we please return to the topic at hand?

free skin care · Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:10 am

For the record, I did not bring the discussion about FE experiences into a thread that is about founders' photos. John Perry just joined the forum and in his very first post addressed me to tell me about his experience with FE even though I didn't ask nor was that a topic in this thread. Still I appreciated his generosity and willingness to share his experience and video with me, although it did take me aback because it seemed kind of random and out of the blue. And because he brought up the topic of FE experiences and shared his story, it only made sense for me to share mine. Isn't that how discussions go? Or was I supposed to ignore him and not say anything because God forbid I tell a newbie my FE story even though he clearly wanted to talk about FE?

Like I said, if the topic comes up in a discussion that warrants my sharing about my FE experience, then I will share my FE experience. It came up upthread, so I did. If the post had not addressed me, I would not have said a thing. Just as I don't quote those who say positive things about FE to tell them my experience. I believe there is a thread singing praises about FE. I have never set foot in it. But clearly this was a post for me to hear about JRP's FE experience so I did unto him as he did unto me and shared my FE experience in return.

free skin care · Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:42 am

I think that any comments that are made to hurt a business deserves to get called on and there has been (and still is) on the web a lot of comments from a certain someone saying how Deb’s program ruined her face beyond repair (and then magically she found a program that fixed it).

Still to this day it goes on, and I’ve seen several arguments where people get torn into about flexeffect. Even the notion that was mentioned one time re there being a staff forum gets dismissed regularly, and that has to be damage Deb’s business in some shape or form

Hell I bought my first kit back in 2004 and for what its worth there were trainers there when I used to visit, and the internet wasn’t as popular as it was today but from what I’ve seen every issue that gets raised gets dealt with as much as possible – they’ve got Loli, Cathie, Shawn, etc all there answering questions as well as Kaye (whose results still marvel me!).

It also makes me laugh why there is so much protest over actually proving that someone purchased the package? Why not just shut people up and prove that you purchased it? Lady doth protest too much me thinks. I thought it was funny a short while ago when Carolyn mentioned buying at a thrift store, and then got called out on it – as Deb tracked her order down. Also for what its worth, sometimes I noticed that when a person speaks in the third tense, it makes me wonder whether its actually that person writing or someone else? Just saying what I know I’ve been thinking.

Tessie

free skin care · Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:44 am

Also from what I can see, there is never any reference to the forum for it, or the trainers that help people. I know all of them have helped me at various points with different things without a cost which I think is a selling advantage, but if you were to think about buying a program and came across posts where people were unsupported or ran into issues and couldn't get help - then I for one would be on the fence about making that purchase so I can understand why newcomers would be put off by those remarks.

Lotusesther wrote:

I agree with Kassy. And I am still surprised that there are no other stories of people having the same trouble from Flex Effect. If it's a flaw in the program, others should have the same trouble and it would have popped up here in one of the many facial exercise threads over the years.

free skin care · Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:04 am

TheresaMary wrote:

I think that any comments that are made to hurt a business deserves to get called on and there has been (and still is) on the web a lot of comments from a certain someone saying how Deb’s program ruined her face beyond repair (and then magically she found a program that fixed it).

TM - These are very good comments, and honestly could be applicable to several threads on this forum. Bashing a business is bashing a business in my book. When a person comes on a forum and makes comments about FE ruining their face, or a microcurrent device causing a seizure, or even intimating that a product's founder is unethical, these ARE detrimental to those businesses. Further, when these comments are not backed up by absolute proof and are written in such a slanderous way as we've all seen many times on EDS, it's nothing short of defamation of character. To me, it just stands to reason that people should leave *personal* out of the equation when they don't like a certain product or device, and at some point they need to "LET IT GO AND MOVE ON!" If you want to post something nice and share how it worked for, then go for it...otherwise, IMO to continue on in this fashion on this thread or others, it's just beating a dead horse. ~ Aprile Laughing

free skin care · Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:34 am

aprile wrote:

TM - These are very good comments, and honestly could be applicable to several threads on this forum. Bashing a business is bashing a business in my book. When a person comes on a forum and makes comments about FE ruining their face, or a microcurrent device causing a seizure, or even intimating that a product's founder is unethical, these ARE detrimental to those businesses. Further, when these comments are not backed up by absolute proof and are written in such a slanderous way as we've all seen many times on EDS, it's nothing short of defamation of character. To me, it just stands to reason that people should leave *personal* out of the equation when they don't like a certain product or device, and at some point they need to "LET IT GO AND MOVE ON!" If you want to post something nice and share how it worked for, then go for it...otherwise, IMO to continue on in this fashion on this thread or others, it's just beating a dead horse. ~ Aprile Laughing

So you're saying that no negative reviews should be posted? Do you really mean that if you used a topical and it gave you an adverse reaction, or you used a device which caused you a physical injury, that it shouldn't be mentioned? Do you believe that Cookie did the wrong thing by posting her experience with the DermaJet? Do you believe that she should be sued or accused of defamation?

These types of forums are the easiest way to get feedback on products - if you're going to start insisting people only post positive reviews what use is that to anybody. And anyone in business should be prepared to deal with unsatisfied customers and negative feedback.

Why don't people just let other people have their say - let the combatants battle it out - as long as they do so in a civil manner.

Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:20 am

Nonie....New member here ( soon to be ex member with this psycho nonsense going on around here)....My name John Perry has been thrown around a couple of times now....

"On 8/22/2013 you posted
Deb Crowley said earlier in this thread that she was way ahead of Theresamary on this idea of posting recent photos but her photos are glaringly absent.

That two of the popular face exercise programs on EDS are not represented in this thread when both founders are members of this forum is a bit of a disappointment, don't you think?"

Only reason I felt motivated to share my experience and video with you....To show someone who has had success with Flex Effect since you brought to my attention that she (Deb Crowley) had not posted recent pictures yet...

"You posted on 9-5-2013
For the record, I did not bring the discussion about FE experiences into a thread that is about founders' photos. John Perry just joined the forum and in his very first post addressed me to tell me about his experience with FE even though I didn't ask nor was that a topic in this thread."

I was just sharing, thought it was a good idea...See now it wasn't, but to be fair your statement was a slam at the founder of Flex Effect so I thought I would share a positive experience....You have made it very clear you do not want to hear anything positive about Flex Effect after reading this entire thread...Okay fine.....No offense was intended to you with my share of my video or any comments I made to you.....

"You posted 9-5-2013
Still I appreciated his generosity and willingness to share his experience and video with me, although it did take me aback because it seemed kind of random and out of the blue"...

Why would that take you or anyone aback or think it was out of the blue when I was reading the thread that mentioned Flex Effect and it's founder?.....I thought cool, I've been doing this for years and have reaped the benefits and wanted to share.....Nothing random or strange about it......

Like I said in an earlier post, all the best of luck to you....And you know what?....I mean it....John Perry AKA soon to be ex member as soon as I figure out how to do so.....

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