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free skin care · Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:46 pm

AngelaE8654 wrote:

What isn't helpful to discussions like this is "fluff talk" like this:

jasminerosey 1 wrote:

Angel

i am not talking about internet 'copycat' talk

sometimes after much resarch one finds something..a perspective about the natural world and how it works that 'just makes sense'

someone explains something from a knowledge base different than what we are used to and we 'get' it ...

real understanding is not so intellectually difficult and cumbersome all the time (sometimes yes. but not all the time)

there ARE things we can't comprehend or understand with our rational mind...

and so other innate human faculties MUST come into play

it's the way of truth...

great things don't get discovered (all real scientific breakthroughs included) without Inner Knowing as well as what passes for current mainstream scientific 'fact'.

That has no substance. In other words, we believe what we believe and what "makes sense" to us. That's nothing new; of course we do. Everyone is free to believe what he or she believes. That's why we call it "belief". But how does that add anything to the conversation or show anyone real and compelling information that what the poster is saying is true??

I found it helpful! Actually, I am finding all of Jasminerosey's posts to be helpful.

free skin care · Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:53 pm

Just a quick note here to Aprile's post above. Personally, I don't have any real "belief system" about GMO foods. Don't know if they're good. Don't know if they're harmful. Have never based my "eating decisions" on GMO/not GMO. However, like I stated before on these forums:

AngelaE8654 wrote:

I'm 47 years old (I will be 48 in March) and am healthy as a horse. Always have been. Have never had some of the diseases my siblings have had, like pneumonia. I don't have Diabetes, Hypertension, heart problems, thyroid issues, or any other chronic health issue. I see my doctor about once every three to four years. I have never spent even ONE NIGHT in the hospital. The only type of surgery I have ever had was Carpal Tunnel surgery on my wrists, because of work. I've never had a broken bone. I was an adult before I ever had stitches and have only had them once, except for the stitches after the Carpal Tunnel Surgery.

My skin is smooth and baby soft (my husband comments on this all the time). I have one line under each eye and tear troughs and two faint "crows feet" lines on each side of my eyes, but otherwise I have no other wrinkles. I can raise my eyebrows all the way up and I still don't get even ONE forehead wrinkle. I eat healthy and exercise daily. I take quite a few healthy supplements like Omega 3 and Vitamin D3. I use Green Magma (young barley grass powder) and Green Magma Plus regularly.

Aprile's post made it sound like getting sick would be quick after eating GMO foods but that hasn't been my experience.

free skin care · Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:55 pm

Tonia wrote:

I found it helpful! Actually, I am finding all of Jasminerosey's posts to be helpful.

You might have "found it helpful" but the post does not give any real information. That's my point. I didn't ask if posters "found Jasminerosey's posts helpful". That was not the question, here. You might like "pie in the sky" explanations like what Jasminerosey posted and that's fine but again, that's not real information.

free skin care · Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:04 pm

AngelaE8654 wrote:

Tonia wrote:

I found it helpful! Actually, I am finding all of Jasminerosey's posts to be helpful.

You might have "found it helpful" but the post does not give any real information. That's my point. I didn't ask if posters "found Jasminerosey's posts helpful". That was not the question, here. You might like "pie in the sky" explanations like what Jasminerosey posted and that's fine but again, that's not real information.

It was helpful to me because we are all reading huge amounts of "real" information that is often contradictory. Sometimes, we have to rely on our intuition to decipher the junk from the truth.

free skin care · Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:12 pm

Back to the topic.

Aprile mentioned to me a connection between magnesium and ATP. After researching it, I think it is relevant to the discussion. ATP is related to energy and needs magnesium. So, magnesium levels ultimately effect ATP. I will post more on this later.

free skin care · Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:25 pm

Lacy53 wrote:

Given that, it makes sense that the media didn't mention the results of the Seralini study. The dietician was correct - GMOs are safe for consumption.

Seriously, it really is time to wake up, do some serious research and reading, and notice what is happening to this world. For people to think GMO's are safe, is IMO, due to not having done much reading and looking at information. For example,
all the Indian farmers who have committed suicide after losing all their animals to death, after being forced to use GMO feed.

All the livestock that have died in Ireland and Germany after eating GMO grains.....no, it hasn't been proven, but the probability is pretty high.

The above are just a couple of examples out of many.

I wonder why 24 countries have banned GMO crops and more countries are following suit.

http://www.organicconsumers.org/gefood/countrieswithbans.cfm

http://www.gmo-free-regions.org/gmo-free-regions/bans.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_of_genetically_modified_organisms_in_the_European_Union

Are GMOs safe?
Most developed nations do not consider GMOs to be safe. In more than 60 countries around the world, including Australia, Japan, and all of the countries in the European Union, there are significant restrictions or outright bans on the production and sale of GMOs. In the U.S., the government has approved GMOs based on studies conducted by the same corporations that created them and profit from their sale. Increasingly, Americans are taking matters into their own hands and choosing to opt out of the GMO experiment.

free skin care · Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:33 pm

Tonia wrote:

The point is: we are all reading huge amounts of "real" information that is often contradictory. Sometimes, we have to rely on our intuition to sort out the junk from the truth.

Or rely on real and tangible testing.

Posters on this very thread have said this:

aprile wrote:

As Mariposa stated, the treatments her brother received are illegal in the U.S. I would venture a BIG guess that they cost way less the toxic chemotherapy and radiation, especially given that chemo is $18 THOUSAND dollars a vile, and more importantly - they do no harm. Which makes me ponder why people seeking treatment for most diseases don't even consider that the pharmaceutical industry is a trillion dollar industry!! Why should it be any wonder that the government would conceal information about the terrible odds using conventional treatments? They lie, cover up about so many things!!

The FTC is a United States Government run agency. The "Federal" Trade Commission. And the FTC sued Sensa for making claims about weight loss that could not be proven with real and tangible test results.

Quote:

Before the FTC settlement, the crystals were marketed as "clinically proven to cause substantial weight loss without dieting or exercise, averaging 30 pounds in six months," based on two of Hirsch's studies. Sensa racked up $364 million in U.S. sales from 2008 to 2012; a two-month starter kit sells for $118.

The FTC charged that the product had no clinical evidence to support it and cited major flaws with Hirsch's research, including the lack of placebo controls.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/health/ct-met-sensa-weight-loss-hirsch-20140119,0,7412554.story

When something here in the United States passes for use medically, it must go through strict testing protocols. Among that testing is double blind, placebo controlled studies with results given to peer groups for their review.

Posters who say things like:

mariposa wrote:

It is a fact that other countries,- Canada, Mexico, Germany, and Switzerland, to name a few,- have cancer treatments that actually heal cancers. Here in the US,those cancers have a 1% survival rate.

Go on to say:

mariposa wrote:

Case in point, my brother, who has stage 4 colon cancer with metastases to the liver and lymph nodes. He has done treatments in Germany and Canada (treatments that are illegal in this country).

mariposa wrote:

Keliu,
One therapy that my brother uses both in Germany and in Canada is hyperthermia. It's very effective when used in conjunction with IPT chemo, which is another therapy he's doing. IPT chemo is insulin potentiated therapy, using low doses of chemo. Mistletoe by injection is another one. PEMF (pulsed electro magnetic frequency) is used alot in Europe. I think you can find it here, but noone is using it for cancer. He is also doing Autohemotherapy with ozone. Very high dose vitamin C as well, although one can find this in the states....but not usually associated with using for cancer.

So on one hand, mariposa said these 'cancer treatments in other countries' heal cancer and then talks in present tense about her brother's cancer and what he is currently doing for it. So is he healed or is he not healed??

See what I mean? You can rely on pie-in-the-sky if you want to, but I prefer real and tangible information.

free skin care · Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:56 pm

AngelaE8654 wrote:

When something here in the United States passes for use medically, it must go through strict testing protocols. Among that testing is double blind, placebo controlled studies with results given to peer groups for their review.

- we can only wish it were true. Sadly it is frequently not the case.

Also, considering that only now the side-effects of taking daily baby aspirin are published (25% increase in risk of developing macular degeneration); or the fact that some statins cause diabetes (again - was noticed among practicing physicians for years but was considered standard of care) - it would be rather naive to blindly trust the "real" information.

But to each their own.

Same goes for GMO and other food criteria. The uneducated Europeans and Russians just out of their blissful ignorance refuse to buy so many of our wonderful and cheap food items.....

free skin care · Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:03 pm

Angela,
My information couldn't be any more real!!!
It comes from personal experience with my brother.

Do you know anyone who has cancer? Did they do a treatment (or 2 or 5) and then be all healed? No would be the answer to that question.

Cancer does not disappear overnight, as I assume you know. Maybe you've been lucky enough to not have to experience any of your loved ones with the dreaded disease.

Instead of being on the attack, another option would be to find out how the cancer cure is progressing with my brother, instead of just making erroneous assumptions that really don't further the conversation or goodwill.

It appears that you want to hold on to your stance and create foment, more than you want to have a discussion in which some new information might come to light, that might be food for thought.

I told my brother about the conversation on this forum and he said,"You couldn't be posting on a cancer forum, because the people on those forums are open and curious." I guess that sums it up.

free skin care · Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:15 pm

Love this comment Mariposa!!!

Quote:

Increasingly, Americans are taking matters into their own hands and choosing to opt out of the GMO experiment.

YES we are the BIG SCIENCE EXPERIMENT. Isn't that nice? We weren't even asked if we wanted to participate!

Angela - I did not suggest that people would get sick right away. Heck, cancer doesn't even manifest in the body until many years. But WHY take that risk? Truth is, some are more vulnerable than others, i.e. - CHILDREN. I saw this great presentation where this corporate executive spoke about this very issue. She said many unsuspecting parents have children who are sick with digestive issues because they are unable to break down these weird substances that are found in GMO products... She was once one of those parents. They are spending all sorts of money at the doctor to figure out what's wrong with their child. Isn't that great? Meanwhile all along it was something so simple. Thanks to the power of the internet, people are becoming more informed about issues like this. Groups like the Non-GMO Project are putting pressure on US companies to cease and desist. And you know what? They won one the first phase of the battle with General Mills. Cherrios do not contain GMOs in Europe, and now they have agreed to remove them from US Cherrios. One battle down, millions more to go. Mad

free skin care · Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:32 pm

mariposa wrote:

Angela,
My information couldn't be any more real!!!
It comes from personal experience with my brother.

Do you know anyone who has cancer? Did they do a treatment (or 2 or 5) and then be all healed? No would be the answer to that question.

Cancer does not disappear overnight, as I assume you know. Maybe you've been lucky enough to not have to experience any of your loved ones with the dreaded disease.

Instead of being on the attack, another option would be to find out how the cancer cure is progressing with my brother, instead of just making erroneous assumptions that really don't further the conversation or goodwill.

It appears that you want to hold on to your stance and create foment, more than you want to have a discussion in which some new information might come to light, that might be food for thought.

I told my brother about the conversation on this forum and he said,"You couldn't be posting on a cancer forum, because the people on those forums are open and curious." I guess that sums it up.

I'm not "on the attack" at all; I'm simply asking for real information. And you have no idea what I or any of my loved ones are dealing with or going through. My own brother who is exactly 15 months older than I am passed away suddenly and unexpectedly the day after Christmas and I got the news while my husband was in the Emergency Room here in our hospital for his own issues. (We spent both Christmas day and the day after Christmas going to our Emergency Room. Happy Holidays.) So you have no idea what my experience is. I simply pointed out that you claimed that the treatments in other countries "healed" cancer and then said that your brother (currently) has stage 4 colon cancer with metastases to the liver and lymph nodes. If it's that advanced, I would think that he either didn't know about it until it was at this point and then tried to get the treatments, OR the treatments aren't "curing" the cancer, unfortunately. If there is an actual cure for cancer that can be proven tangibly, I would be all for it. And I don't have an issue with people seeking alternate treatments, either. After all, they may help or they may work. But to say that cancer has been "healed" in other countries but the treatment is not allowed here is a pretty inflammatory statement and I would expect you to follow that up with tangible facts.

free skin care · Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:39 pm

aprile wrote:

Love this comment Mariposa!!!

Quote:

Increasingly, Americans are taking matters into their own hands and choosing to opt out of the GMO experiment.

YES we are the BIG SCIENCE EXPERIMENT. Isn't that nice? We weren't even asked if we wanted to participate!

Angela - I did not suggest that people would get sick right away. Heck, cancer doesn't even manifest in the body until many years. But WHY take that risk? Truth is, some are more vulnerable than others, i.e. - CHILDREN. I saw this great presentation where this corporate executive spoke about this very issue. She said many unsuspecting parents have children who are sick with digestive issues because they are unable to break down these weird substances that are found in GMO products... She was once one of those parents. They are spending all sorts of money at the doctor to figure out what's wrong with their child. Isn't that great? Meanwhile all along it was something so simple. Thanks to the power of the internet, people are becoming more informed about issues like this. Groups like the Non-GMO Project are putting pressure on US companies to cease and desist. And you know what? They won one the first phase of the battle with General Mills. Cherrios do not contain GMOs in Europe, and now they have agreed to remove them from US Cherrios. One battle down, millions more to go. Mad

Like I said, I don't have any actual feelings about this issue one way or the other. There are things that actually do need to be looked at, I agree. The huge increase in children getting autism and that sort of thing seems to be a major issue. So I appreciate that there are folks looking at things like this. I really do. However, you said this:

aprile wrote:

Hahaha- Okey dokey Lacy - if you say so. Go ahead and eat GMO foods containing built-in pesticides and see how long it takes to get sick.

And I simply pointed out that I am almost 50 and I'm not sick. I think that people have to be careful that what they are posting is what they really mean. No, I don't think we need to attach disclaimers to everything we say, but think about what you are posting is actually saying if you want people to understand you.

free skin care · Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:52 pm

mariposa wrote:

I told my brother about the conversation on this forum and he said,"You couldn't be posting on a cancer forum, because the people on those forums are open and curious." I guess that sums it up.

Of course they are. They are looking for any shred of hope, no matter how small. I would expect that. And again, I have no problem with people seeking alternative treatments if the treatments they've gotten haven't worked or if they think that the alternate treatment may work for them. But it's quite a stretch to make a claim that a cure has been found for cancer by other countries but that cure is not allowed here in the United States. That would have to be backed up by real and tangible evidence that can pass all the tests for "proof"

free skin care · Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:48 pm

When you make ozone water in the house, how long should you stay out of that room if you don't want to inhale the ozone?

free skin care · Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:48 pm

AngelaE8654 wrote:

I'm not "on the attack" at all; I'm simply asking for real information. And you have no idea what I or any of my loved ones are dealing with or going through. My own brother who is exactly 15 months older than I am passed away suddenly and unexpectedly the day after Christmas and I got the news while my husband was in the Emergency Room here in our hospital for his own issues. (We spent both Christmas day and the day after Christmas going to our Emergency Room. Happy Holidays.) So you have no idea what my experience is. I simply pointed out that you claimed that the treatments in other countries "healed" cancer and then said that your brother (currently) has stage 4 colon cancer with metastases to the liver and lymph nodes. If it's that advanced, I would think that he either didn't know about it until it was at this point and then tried to get the treatments, OR the treatments aren't "curing" the cancer, unfortunately. If there is an actual cure for cancer that can be proven tangibly, I would be all for it. And I don't have an issue with people seeking alternate treatments, either. After all, they may help or they may work. But to say that cancer has been "healed" in other countries but the treatment is not allowed here is a pretty inflammatory statement and I would expect you to follow that up with tangible facts.

Angela,
You can be sure I'll let you know when my brother's tumors have shrunk to nothing.

Hopefully that will be "real" enough for you.

They are already much much smaller than in the beginning. The main colon tumor is GONE!!!!!

I'm finished with this conversation.

free skin care · Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:12 pm

Mariposa - I think Angela is simply pointing out that, in regard to cancer treatments, the premise that the USA is hundreds of years behind other countries, is denying people certain treatments or that there is a conspiracy to keep/make its citizens sick is inflammatory hyperbole. A cursory Google search revealed that Hyperthermia is available in the US and is a recognised treatment for cancer. http://www.cancercenter.com/treatments/hyperthermia/

It's also available in Australia, but there's a long waiting list - maybe this is the case in the US also.

I think it's important to note though, that the treatment is usually given along with chemo - so it is not a substitute for it.

free skin care · Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:14 pm

Tonia wrote:

When you make ozone water in the house, how long should you stay out of that room if you don't want to inhale the ozone?

Why would you want to use a machine in your home that in order to be safe, you have to vacate it?

free skin care · Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:14 pm

See, this is what I'm talking about. First you say this:

mariposa wrote:

Case in point, my brother, who has stage 4 colon cancer with metastases to the liver and lymph nodes.

And then you say this:

mariposa wrote:

Angela,
You can be sure I'll let you know when my brother's tumors have shrunk to nothing.

Hopefully that will be "real" enough for you. They are already much much smaller than in the beginning. The main colon tumor is GONE!!!!!

So is he in stage 4 metastasized colon cancer or not? Personally, I hope he's improving and getting better and better; that would be a wonderful thing. But don't say one thing and then say something contradictory later on (Tonia already talked about how hard it is to believe what is read if the information one is getting is contradictory) if you expect people to believe what you are saying.

That's also another reason it's not smart to simply believe offhand what one reads on the internet. What is said may not be exactly the way things really are. Anybody can post anything on the internet. That's the problem and why it's important to seek out real information.

free skin care · Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:04 pm

Keliu wrote:

Tonia wrote:

When you make ozone water in the house, how long should you stay out of that room if you don't want to inhale the ozone?

Why would you want to use a machine in your home that in order to be safe, you have to vacate it?

You don't have to vacate. The machine I bought can be used in home for air purification and/or for water. I am choosing water only, so I will run it outside. I know most people run it inside so I was wondering what others do if they want water only. The professional grade units are much stronger than the one I bought and shouldn't be breathed. That is not the kind that I bought. The one I bought is designed to produce a low level. The question was based on my choice to do one thing at a time.

HTH

free skin care · Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:37 am

AngelaE8654 wrote:

See, this is what I'm talking about. First you say this:

mariposa wrote:

Case in point, my brother, who has stage 4 colon cancer with metastases to the liver and lymph nodes.

And then you say this:

mariposa wrote:

Angela,
You can be sure I'll let you know when my brother's tumors have shrunk to nothing.

Hopefully that will be "real" enough for you. They are already much much smaller than in the beginning. The main colon tumor is GONE!!!!!

So is he in stage 4 metastasized colon cancer or not? Personally, I hope he's improving and getting better and better; that would be a wonderful thing. But don't say one thing and then say something contradictory later on (Tonia already talked about how hard it is to believe what is read if the information one is getting is contradictory) if you expect people to believe what you are saying.

That's also another reason it's not smart to simply believe offhand what one reads on the internet. What is said may not be exactly the way things really are. Anybody can post anything on the internet. That's the problem and why it's important to seek out real
information.

Angela,

First off let me say that I am sorry for your terrible loss. I am sure the pain is still very raw. However, you are making comments to Mariposa as though her brother's experience was a *gamble*. OR if he wasn't healed immmediately then the treatment isn't working. That's not only untrue but unfair. There are a number of different alternative treatments available that combine different therapies to get the body back to a place of wellness. Further, as previously mentioned, it takes time for cancer to manifest in the body. The body can and will given the right conditions heal itself. Giving it chemicals and radiating it, just doesn't even make sense. These treatments have been around for decades and just where have they gotten us? Many people who utilize these treatments, end up having to endure a second battle with cancer. Just because these treatments are not sanctioned by FDA (never gonna happen to disrupt the money chain), does not mean they aren't valid treatments. As previously mentioned, Dr. Burzynski has been fighting with them for years.

And this is for Keliu - What is meant by *blocking those treatments* in the U.S. is that if they aren't approved, then insurance won't pay. There is NO PROOF that mammograms are preventing breast cancer, yet they are the *gold standard* and the only test that is approved and covered by insurance. YET, all of those mammos add up to too much exposure to radiation which can lead to cancer.

free skin care · Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:01 pm

Thank you for your kind words, Aprile. About cancer treatments...again, I don't have an issue with 'alternate' treatments. I'd probably do the same thing myself if I had cancer. However, to say that cancer gets "healed" in other countries but it doesn't get "healed" here because the treatments aren't allowed is very inflammatory. There have been thousands of cancer patients here in the United States who have gone into "remission". There are many, many, many breast cancer survivors now. My stepdaughters' mom (my husband's first wife) is one of those survivors. I think she's six or seven years out if I remember correctly. (It might even be longer than that; I just don't remember how long it's been since they found her cancer.) So saying that our own treatments "don't make sense" is not telling the complete story and sound like a "phoney sales pitch" of sorts for alternate treatments.

One of my favorite, favorite, favorite charities is St. Jude Children's Research Hospital, who says:

Our unique mission ...

… to find cures for children with cancer and other life-threatening diseases through research and treatment. And no family ever pays St. Jude for anything.

http://www.stjude.org/stjude/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=f87d4c2a71fca210VgnVCM1000001e0215acRCRD

St. Jude has proven and the results printed in the New England Journal of Medicine, a reputable source that doctor peer groups use to keep abreast of new treatments that:

Chemotherapy proves life-saving for some leukemia patients who fail induction therapy

http://www.stjude.org/stjude/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=45d92988ffd96310VgnVCM100000290115acRCRD&vgnextchannel=a0afc9c154e14310VgnVCM100000290115acRCRD

So to say that our treatments here "don't make sense" is not telling the complete story. If you want to be believed, you have to give all the information, not just half the story.

Some cancer patients are finding that alternate treatments are helping and at times even putting their cancer into remission. (Anyone who has had cancer faces the possibility of cancer returning, regardless of the treatment he or she has received so the fact that this has happened to people has nothing to do with what treatments he or she have received.) Many cancer patients using traditional treatments here in the United States are also going into remission and surviving their cancer. That's the real story.

free skin care · Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:49 pm

Keliu wrote:

Mariposa - I think Angela is simply pointing out that, in regard to cancer treatments, the premise that the USA is hundreds of years behind other countries, is denying people certain treatments or that there is a conspiracy to keep/make its citizens sick is inflammatory hyperbole.
I think it's important to note though, that the treatment is usually given along with chemo - so it is not a substitute for it.

What is inflammatory hyperbole to one person is the truth to another person. It all boils down to what one chooses to believe.

free skin care · Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:00 pm

Scientific Evidence For Alternative Medicine
(regarding cancer)

http://www.cancertutor.com/war_evidence/

Clinical Oncology magazine article:
(scroll down a little and you will find a chart
showing survival rate percentages for various cancers.)

http://www.burtongoldberg.com/home/burtongoldberg/contribution-of-chemotherapy-to-five-year-survival-rate-morgan.pdf

free skin care · Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:02 pm

I am also terribly sorry for your loss Angela...its really difficult to know another person just by what they are posting on the internet... that's why i feel it's really important for us to honor each other as much as we can.

free skin care · Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:16 pm

and mariposa...how wonderful your brother is now regenerating quickly

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