::REVIEW:: 302 Skincare Part 2: More Questions and Feedback
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free skin care · Sat Sep 12, 2009 4:29 pm

Sigh.....so many people making something out of nothing. Boski had permission from Huber to post portions of his correspondence. This is not the only forum that doesn't allow posting personal emails on an open forum. Many others do exactly the same because it is unethical to do otherwise.

free skin care · Sat Sep 12, 2009 4:29 pm

I think that's pretty easy to answer - the responses in blue, Dr. Huber had agreed to have them conveyed to us here, and in fact, I believe he was answering questions for people on the forum fully aware boski would post them here. The email response to sandralee was not something he agreed to have reproduced on the forum.

ETA: Lexyg beat me to it. I agree with her.

red head wrote:

I was just wondering if we see all of Richards responses in blue before why did the Moderator not show his response that was negative - are we not to see all sides on this forum......

free skin care · Sat Sep 12, 2009 4:34 pm

red head wrote:

I was just wondering if we see all of Richards responses in blue before why did the Moderator not show his response that was negative - are we not to see all sides on this forum......

In the mods' defense, the "blue" posts were either responses to questions asked and he gave Boski permission to post them, or excerpts from the 302 handbook, which again, she had permission to post.

Posting private email without permission can be a huge legal hassle.

Dale, I remember you getting a refund right away without any hassle? And I know others have, too. So, there may have been more to the situation.

I almost wish the other thread hadn't been locked because now most of the discussion here is back to being off topic, and a lot of the people who *like* the products and just want a peaceful thread in which to discuss them are sitting in a collective, shell-shocked silence. It's no fun to have to walk on eggshells or feel guilty/uncomfortable about using and liking certain products. sigh.

ETA - Lexy and Metaphora said it better... I will never learn the art of being concise. (lol)

free skin care · Sat Sep 12, 2009 4:54 pm

Lowbrowscientist wrote:

Dale, I remember you getting a refund right away without any hassle? And I know others have, too. So, there may have been more to the situation.

I almost wish the other thread hadn't been locked because now most of the discussion here is back to being off topic, and a lot of the people who *like* the products and just want a peaceful thread in which to discuss them are sitting in a collective, shell-shocked silence. It's no fun to have to walk on eggshells or feel guilty/uncomfortable about using and liking certain products. sigh.

ETA - Lexy and Metaphora said it better... I will never learn the art of being concise. (lol)

Agree, Lexy and Metaphora made much more sense than what I wrote, as well.

I think the situations were different regarding the refund issue. Red head wasn't on the products even for 1 month so she was within the 30 day time frame, and Sandralee was on the products for longer.

What bothers me about the thread is this. There are tons of people on this forum (not everyone but a lot nevertheless) who never ask for studies or references on any product they use. They hear a rave, they go buy the product, or they see miraculous before and after pictures, and go buy the product - not once asking any information on who created the product, not checking in to the ingredients, etc. If that particular product that they purchased doesn't work, they state that it didn't work for them, and then they move on to another line.

Maybe the 1st thread on 302 made these particular products seem magical due to the length of the thread? Skin is so individual and what works for one may not work for another. Not everything works for every body. That is just how it is.

ETA: Sorry, I did want to add that I was not talking about any particular person, just voicing my opinion on what seems to be happening lately. Very Happy

free skin care · Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:47 pm

rileygirl wrote:

I think the situations were different regarding the refund issue. Red head wasn't on the products even for 1 month so she was within the 30 day time frame, and Sandralee was on the products for longer.

You're right Rileygirl, red head had pretty much just started. But I recall others getting refunds (using the products for longer time periods) without any hassle. I just think there are probably individual circumstances sometimes that are handled differently, and we aren't privy to all of the information about sandralee's particular situation.

Quote:

There are tons of people on this forum (not everyone but a lot nevertheless) who never ask for studies or references on any product they use. They hear a rave, they go buy the product, or they see miraculous before and after pictures, and go buy the product - not once asking any information on who created the product, not checking in to the ingredients, etc. If that particular product that they purchased doesn't work, they state that it didn't work for them, and then they move on to another line.

That's been my perspective too, and I hope those who *want* to use and discuss the products can continue to have a friendly place to do so. There were people in the original thread who had problems sometimes, and some who eventually decided the line wasn't for them. It wasn't a big deal, ever -- we tried to help out when we could, and if we couldn't, we just wished them luck finding something they liked and moved on. I really hope we can get back to that... I'd like us all to be able to share our experiences with the products, whether good or bad, without it feeling like a personal judgment Neutral

And, I'll second Riley's addendum - this is general commentary about the atmosphere of the thread, not directed at anyone in particular.

free skin care · Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:01 pm

It's not unusual or ridiculous to want to know something about a product line developer's background. For example on the Perricone website it shows where he attended medical school, where he did a residency in dermatology, and other info about his qualifications. This instills confidence that the man knows what he's talking about. The same thing with the Dr. Brandt website, there's plenty of information about his background and membership in medical and dermatological organizations.

Given that, why is Huber's background such a mystery? He seems to enjoy writing emails, many of which are reproduced in the old 302 thread. Surely he could take five minutes to give us a brief snapshot of his qualifications. If nothing else it would stop the questions being raised in this and other forums.

free skin care · Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:22 pm

I think my response was because the other thread was locked but I do agree no info can make you wonder. Its very hard to use a skincare line when you can only communicate via email or phone rather than a live consultation face to face. That was another of my frustrations. Guessing what would work and what would not was just not a option that I wanted to do. Iam sure that the products do work for some and not for others just like all the machines people are using are for some and not others. I got my refund but I must add that it was not without trying to convince me to just give this other product or regimine a go. Iam sure each refund if different but this thread is just as bad as the banwagon that we all were on with the ZO Obagi when it 1st came out now that fad has come and gone. So good luck to all and to each his own

free skin care · Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:26 pm

tarapaca wrote:

It's not unusual or ridiculous to want to know something about a product line developer's background.

It's not unusual at all for people to want to know, though it seems unusual to *ask* in a place where it's obvious no one knows the answer.

And, if I'm not mistaken, don't both of those docs you mentioned sell their products directly to consumers? There are other lines that sell only to spas and clinics and no one even hears about the line at all unless they're near a spa or office that uses and sells them. I guess I never considered it a big deal because it was plainly stated that he's marketing his products to skin care pros. Making the info available to consumers just isn't a priority.

Quote:

He seems to enjoy writing emails, many of which are reproduced in the old 302 thread. Surely he could take five minutes to give us a brief snapshot of his qualifications.

If anyone had ever asked back then, I imagine he'd have answered. He doesn't read forums or advertise/market to consumers, and for awhile now he hasn't been dealing personally with people via phone or email either (that was apparently an aberration anyway, as he never intended to do personal consults and his dealings have always been with the estheticians and docs).

All things considered, it doesn't seem like that big a deal to me personally if that information isn't easily accessible to the public. It's certainly understandable that you or others might want more information, though, and you're welcome to use whatever product line you feel comfortable with. If you ever decide to give the 302 line a try anyway, we'd love to hear how it works for you.

free skin care · Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:38 pm

red head wrote:

I got my refund but I must add that it was not without trying to convince me to just give this other product or regimine a go.

I actually thought you might have success with it if you gave it a longer trial period, but when you decided to move on, we were all just hoping you'd find something you liked better.

Quote:

this thread is just as bad as the banwagon that we all were on with the ZO Obagi when it 1st came out now that fad has come and gone.

Wow, you consider Obagi a fad? I thought the ZO line was really effective for some people? I don't really know much about it though.

That's a great point, though - in that regard, 302 is very similar to lines like Obagi, and others that are sold in spas and dermatology clinics. The products are to be used under supervision, applied "properly" (in some strategic fashion to maximize effectiveness), and they take time to see results. Sometimes there are adjustment periods where you're encouraged to just stick it out because it's part of the process. Heck, that was my experience with Retin A and every rosacea medication I was ever prescribed. I guess that's why the 302 protocol didn't seem unusual to me. I'm just glad that the products work for me.

But, I agree, to each his/her own - there are lots of good skin care lines and I'm sure everyone can find something they like Smile

free skin care · Sat Sep 12, 2009 7:31 pm

Lowbrowscientist - I agree with everything you've had to say about this drawn out issue surrounding Huber's credentials. If anyone wants to obtain information regarding his credentials, just ask the man himself. Call 302 directly or send them an email with your inquiry. It's that easy.
Maybe Huber's background continues to be a mystery on this forum because the people who want an answer to this question are incessantly posing the question in a place that does not contain the answer, namely - this forum! Again, the information regarding his credentials cannot be found here. That doesn't mean that he is trying to hide or conceal that information. He is simply not a participant on this forum so there is a very good chance he may not even know that the question surrounding his credentials even exists. So how can he take five minutes or even one minute to answer a question that he doesn't know is being asked? Again, if anyone here wants to know more about his personal background, just call or email 302.

I hope, sooner rather than later, this thread can reshift its focus back to the discussion of our individual skincare experiences with 302 products.

Thanks,
Katie

free skin care · Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:08 pm

You know it is crazy, but it seems like I can see a "slight" difference in the way my face looks....for the good! (Then again, I may be having good skin days) I know it is really to soon for me to tell much, but I can DEFINATELY say that I have softer facial skin now....no doubt about it.....

I am still applying the drops every other night and get the occasional bump, but nothing bad.....I am hoping to move up to the Acne Serum soon, as that is what was also suggested, in combo with the C Boost....I do not have acne, but the acne serum is supose to help ALOT with the skins texture, so I will be using that with C Boost when my bottle of 302 Drops is empty.

I also have been thinking that I may move up to using the 302 Drops every night, in the next 1-2 weeks, since everything has been going good.

I have also decided to do my "spray tan" tonight and hopefully that will go well Smile

Just letting anyone whom cares know my progress (and to keep up with it myself)

ETA: Some days I seem to need no moisturizer, while other days/nights, such as tonight, I feel dry....

free skin care · Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:15 pm

DELETED....Sorry....I was going to mention a response in reference to Dr. Hubers degree, but this really isn't the place, as admin. has stated....

I do want to add that you will obviously never know if the products are going to help or not if you don't give them a try, regardless of other issues about the dr.

Good luck to all!

Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:15 pm

queenkatez wrote:

Maybe Huber's background continues to be a mystery on this forum because the people who want an answer to this question are incessantly posing the question in a place that does not contain the answer, namely - this forum! Again, the information regarding his credentials cannot be found here. That doesn't mean that he is trying to hide or conceal that information. Again, if anyone here wants to know more about his personal background, just call or email 302.

I hope, sooner rather than later, this thread can reshift its focus back to the discussion of our individual skincare experiences with 302 products.

Thanks,
Katie

Man oh man, you nailed it. The only conclusion I can come to about the mystery-obsessed posters is that they are like sand box bullies who see a couple of kids having fun, so they jump in the sand box and make a mess, laughing at the justified bafflement of the kids who'd been having a good time. And often ,the mystery-obsessed posters seemed to zero in on the specific kid who was simply very pleased with the good time the sand box supplied.

free skin care · Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:21 pm

Elvisshops wrote:

Hi. I'm new to EDS and to 302. I have the c boost and will begin using it shortly. 302 threads certainly have a lively and diverse following.

What can I expect to see within the first month or so of c boost use? The good, the bad, the ugly?

BTW, I have read through the very long 302 thread that gave rise to this one.

Thanks.

Elvisshops,

I missed your post earlier, but I hope maybe someone else can chime in. I have used the C Boost, but VERY sporadically. So, I can't say for sure what to expect with regular use. I do seem to recall that some people had some breakouts when they first used it (as in, for the first 2 or 3 weeks) and as time went on, the problem resolved itself. In at least one situation, I think the user determined that they needed to use more water when applying the drops (meaning, they needed their face to be more wet before applying, or they may have been using too many drops). I think someone else having problems with the C Boost cut back usage to one or two days for a few weeks, then when they bumped back up to 3x a week, they didn't have issues. I don't recall anyone having long term issues.

Of course, none of this could apply to you - you could experience something else, or you might experience nothing at all except your skin slowly improving. We'll be rooting for that, of course Smile

free skin care · Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:30 pm

MentorAmy05 wrote:

You know it is crazy, but it seems like I can see a "slight" difference in the way my face looks....for the good! (Then again, I may be having good skin days) I know it is really to soon for me to tell much, but I can DEFINATELY say that I have softer facial skin now....no doubt about it.....

Sounds like you're heading in the right direction Very Happy

Quote:

ETA: Some days I seem to need no moisturizer, while other days/nights, such as tonight, I feel dry....

I haven't had that yet, but as we approach fall and colder weather I'll need something extra too. Our heating system makes the air extremely dry Neutral

... this is one of those times where the ORx might be helpful, if it's used judiciously. But, it sounds like that's an improvement too, that you don't always feel like you need one?

ETA: I've been meaning to ask, do you have a favorite between the jojoba and the hazelnut oil?

free skin care · Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:50 pm

Actually I'm a 302 user, though it's early days yet. I had a phone/email consult with Jennifer and am using the rosacea drops, rosacea cleanser, calming mist, ointment and recovery minerals. If this works for me I'll be delighted and will probably try and convert everyone on the rosacea mailing list to this skincare line.

I decided to try 302 based on what I read in the old thread and because I liked the idea of using a line that used natural ingredients, and very few of them at that. Some of Dr. Huber's ideas about skin care do seem quite radical, so yes, it would be nice to know about his experience and background. To that end I emailed 302 on Thursday, though I haven't heard back from them yet.

I've not been trying to start a fight, I'm just genuinely surprised that some of the people here who have contact with Dr. Huber, and have been promoting 302 don't appear to know about his credentials.

free skin care · Sat Sep 12, 2009 9:26 pm

tarapaca wrote:

Actually I'm a 302 user, though it's early days yet. I had a phone/email consult with Jennifer and am using the rosacea drops, rosacea cleanser, calming mist, ointment and recovery minerals.

Glad to hear it's working so well for you so far! I have rosacea too, and this has been my holy grail line since I started, partly because I saw good results but also because my skin just couldn't tolerate anything else Neutral

And, I did have some setbacks, but since about Feb/March it's been nothing but steady improvements. 302 seems to really shine when it comes to fragile skin, so there's a good chance you'll be among those that see really great results.

Quote:

To that end I emailed 302 on Thursday, though I haven't heard back from them yet.

I do hope you hear from them, but at this point it's a toss up whether or not you will. I'm under the impression that 302 has returned to business as usual and isn't dealing with consumers at all anymore.

Quote:

I've not been trying to start a fight, I'm just genuinely surprised that some of the people here who have contact with Dr. Huber, and have been promoting 302 don't appear to know about his credentials.

Besides Boski, I don't know of anyone who has regular contact with him... she probably could have gotten this info for us in the past, but she's not reading the forum anymore.

Maybe this is just a semantics issue, but I don't think anyone's been *promoting* 302... Boski gave her personal review and has taken a lot of her free time to help answer questions when she could, and a lot of other people have pitched in to help. I think she felt responsible for helping people since she started the thread. I just like the line a lot and I've been able to keep up with reading the first thread, so I can usually supply information when it's requested. I think up to this point, people were more concerned with the product performance and it didn't occur to anyone to ask.

IMO we were lucky to have Boski helping out, she was actually given a copy of the handbook (that usually only docs or estys get) so she could help answer the huge onslaught of questions she was bombarded with daily. As it is now, we can still ask the estys, but they aren't always as fast at getting back to us. And I thought it was cool to get replies directly from the founder, and also to have the company hearing and even implementing some of our suggestions... those were perks that people don't often get to experience.

free skin care · Sat Sep 12, 2009 11:19 pm

Lowbrowscientist wrote:

ETA: I've been meaning to ask, do you have a favorite between the jojoba and the hazelnut oil?

I do seem to favor (and use) the Hazelnut more often than the Jojoba.....I have been using the Jojoba on my body some.....So I will probably only buy Hazelnut when the Jojoba is gone.

Also, I meant to ask before.....Is HEMP Oil okay to use with 302 Products? (I have read great reviews on this also & want to give it a try.

free skin care · Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:13 am

I am one of those long time, happy users who is sitting here *shell-shocked* at some of the comments here.

I agree with what Low Brow is saying - plus, I have to say - the kind ladies here are not trying to sell 302 to anyone and are not affiliated with 302. Far from it - they are using up a lot of their own valuable, precious time to help new people and and try to answer their questions. They are doing this out of the goodness of their hearts.

Boski, Low Brow and many others have been extremely generous with their time and help. They don't have to do this. They are not promoting 302 and receive no compensation for spending so much time here.

I for one am extremely grateful - if these kind souls hadn't been so giving of their experiences, I never would have heard about 302, and I never would have got such lovely skin! Smile

This is not a 302-website thread or Dr Huber moderated thread. So if you want to know more about Dr Huber, just ask him directly.

free skin care · Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:16 am

Hi Mentor Amy!

I have used Hazelnut oil, which I like. But I have also read the Hemp oil thread, it sounds lovely. I don't see any reason why you couldn't use Hemp oil, as long as it is at the opposite end of the day to the 302 actives.

MentorAmy05 wrote:

Lowbrowscientist wrote:

ETA: I've been meaning to ask, do you have a favorite between the jojoba and the hazelnut oil?

I do seem to favor (and use) the Hazelnut more often than the Jojoba.....I have been using the Jojoba on my body some.....So I will probably only buy Hazelnut when the Jojoba is gone.

Also, I meant to ask before.....Is HEMP Oil okay to use with 302 Products? (I have read great reviews on this also & want to give it a try.

free skin care · Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:19 am

Hi Elvisshops!

I am a C Boost user. I have acne-prone skin, and at first I would get little spots when I used C Boost, so I stopped.

As my skin became more resilient and happy again, I re-tried the C-Boost and I it is fine now. For me it is a pleasant, light product that gives a subtle overall brightening effect.

I use it maximum once a week.

Hope this helps!

Lowbrowscientist wrote:

Elvisshops wrote:

Hi. I'm new to EDS and to 302. I have the c boost and will begin using it shortly. 302 threads certainly have a lively and diverse following.

What can I expect to see within the first month or so of c boost use? The good, the bad, the ugly?

BTW, I have read through the very long 302 thread that gave rise to this one.

Thanks.

Elvisshops,

I missed your post earlier, but I hope maybe someone else can chime in. I have used the C Boost, but VERY sporadically. So, I can't say for sure what to expect with regular use. I do seem to recall that some people had some breakouts when they first used it (as in, for the first 2 or 3 weeks) and as time went on, the problem resolved itself. In at least one situation, I think the user determined that they needed to use more water when applying the drops (meaning, they needed their face to be more wet before applying, or they may have been using too many drops). I think someone else having problems with the C Boost cut back usage to one or two days for a few weeks, then when they bumped back up to 3x a week, they didn't have issues. I don't recall anyone having long term issues.

Of course, none of this could apply to you - you could experience something else, or you might experience nothing at all except your skin slowly improving. We'll be rooting for that, of course Smile

free skin care · Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:48 am

In the other thread which was later closed, it was said Boski was trying to promote 302 in acne org and other related things.
It made me wonder if 302 is for real? Is Boski affliated to Dr H?
I guess people want to know Dr H's credentials because we dont know what his skincare is based on. Were there studies?
I really wanted to try 302 but Im going to wait and see. Im waiting for MentorAmy's review because she seems like a geniune user.

free skin care · Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:42 am

Because someone says something, especially on a skincare forum, doesn't make it true. But it does plant a seed of doubt in some that can grow like mold unless you're strong enough to clean it off of you. So faeirie, my suggestion would be to NOT try 302 until you have an attitude of hope and possibility rather than doubt. That is true of anything in life, as far as I'm concerned.

302 is relatively unknown. Why? Marketing. I know for a fact that Jennifer found Huber, not the other way around. Huber doesn't have a marketing staff like other lines. And the lack of "buzz" about the line (i.e. marketing) makes some folks leary. There is nothing I, or anyone else, can do about that.

And let me leave you with a few thoughts to ponder. Why does EDS sell a bazillion skin care lines if each line markets itself as the best darn stuff in the world? Because one size does NOT fit all.

I've lived long enough to have dentists tell me that I should be brushing my teeth at least 5 different ways over the years. Each method was promoted by MDs who did studies and decided "Yup. This is it!" But every few years they would change it. I think they've finally got it right but it took 40 years for those doctors and studies to decide how folks should brush their teeth! The point being, nothing is constant and no one has ALL the answers for everyone.

free skin care · Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:32 am

tarapaca wrote:

It's not unusual or ridiculous to want to know something about a product line developer's background.

Given that, why is Huber's background such a mystery? He seems to enjoy writing emails, many of which are reproduced in the old 302 thread. Surely he could take five minutes to give us a brief snapshot of his qualifications. If nothing else it would stop the questions being raised in this and other forums.

I do agree with you that is it not ridiculous to want to know the developer's background. I also agree with you that if we knew Dr. Huber's background it would stop all the questions on this forum and others. I don't know what the big deal is with asking this question. I was glad to see that you sent an email to Dr. Huber asking the question, as I do not believe any one else here has done this. At the risk of being shot by other 302 users, I also would like to know this info.

I do not, however, agree that it is not unusual to want to know. That was the point I was trying to make in my earlier post. Most people Do Not go checking into the credentials of the creator of the line they are using. Just look at all the threads of people trying different products. I can't recall the last time where the question was raised who created the line and what that persons background was. Just as an example, people use Paula Begoun's products and follow her advice. They are not asking what her background and/or education is. As far as I can tell, she has no background on chemistry or anything else that would make me think of her as an "expert". Rather, she seems "self educated",and,from what I can tell, does not hold any special degree that would qualify her to recommend products or create her own skin care line. Yet, people still follow her and they are not made to feel bad and/or wrong about their choice.

free skin care · Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:44 am

faeriedust wrote:

In the other thread which was later closed, it was said Boski was trying to promote 302 in acne org and other related things.
It made me wonder if 302 is for real? Is Boski affliated to Dr H?
I guess people want to know Dr H's credentials because we dont know what his skincare is based on. Were there studies?
I really wanted to try 302 but Im going to wait and see. Im waiting for MentorAmy's review because she seems like a geniune user.

I will definately keep you and everyone else posted.

I just read that Boski is no longer posting on this thread, why did she stop?

ETA: Where did the "Who is Dr Huber" thread go? I can't seem to find it!

ETA: I found the above......I guess it is now locked.....

It really is a shame that Nancy/Boski is not posting at the moment, as she seemed to have about the same problems as myself, but I will definately give my results and let everyone see the BEFORE & AFTER photos that I take within the next month and if I stay on the 302 products, I will definately continue to take photos and post on my blog, to let everyone see the results.....

What a shame all of this has taken this "turn"!

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