Can anything actually boost collagen under the eye area?
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free skin care · Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:20 pm

Riley I started out using retin a every night, but over the last 6 months have cut back to every second night. I also use it all around the eye, but I also put a tiny amount on the actual lid also.
I'm never giving retin a up. Never! Very Happy

free skin care · Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:44 am

Thanks for the reply, Mishey! I have many months to go before I make it to 1 year, but I am going to try my very best to use it nightly for that long, as this seems to be the key!

free skin care · Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:55 am

Kassy, i think it's incredible that you've seen improvement so quickly by massaging your undereye area..i've been doing it too for the past month..but haven't noticed a difference yet in mu under eye area...

Sean, is there a way you can explain the massage that you suggest for under the eye area..when you say demo it..do you mean in classes that you give?

free skin care · Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:51 am

jasminerosey wrote:

Sean, is there a way you can explain the massage that you suggest for under the eye area..when you say demo it..do you mean in classes that you give?

I have read Sean's postings that he does teach Flexeffect private classes with individuals in the UK. I am sure the massage is part of the session.
Toby

free skin care · Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:32 am

Yes sorry, I should have made that part clearer. I teach 1-1 sessions, and always teach the massage part of it... as its such a crucial part of the program... but one of the FE trainers, Cathy teaches online courses via webcam where she can show you how to do it.

How long have you been massaging for, and how intense are you doing it? Is diet and skincare good? Water intake also good?

jasminerosey wrote:

Kassy, i think it's incredible that you've seen improvement so quickly by massaging your undereye area..i've been doing it too for the past month..but haven't noticed a difference yet in mu under eye area...

Sean, is there a way you can explain the massage that you suggest for under the eye area..when you say demo it..do you mean in classes that you give?

free skin care · Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:59 am

When I massage around my eyes I pinch the area underneath (Yes, I know it's thin there but mine has thickened up since dong this). I actually do a pinch and twist motion now all around the eyes and face - down to the bone - I feel the orbital and even directly beneath the eyball I pinch and twist slightly.

The body has a reparative response to this type of injury - it is the laying down of collagen. It happens in a larger way when we see scar tissue occuring. This the way the body is repairing itself - in the laying down of collagen fibers - thus causing the thickening and building of the skin. I'm sure this is the same premise as brushing the skin.

Just my thoughts - I teach this same priniciple in my dental classes. It happens with gum tissue also.

Sis

free skin care · Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:10 am

Great descrition Sis and I am finding it really works!!!
Toby

Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:29 am

So anyone else find that the pulling/pinching around the eye and along the top of the cheekbones kind of hurts?

free skin care · Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:37 am

havana8 wrote:

So anyone else find that the pulling/pinching around the eye and along the top of the cheekbones kind of hurts?

Some people are more sensitive so start easy but later you can work up to more.
Toby

free skin care · Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:22 am

sister sweets wrote:

When I massage around my eyes I pinch the area underneath (Yes, I know it's thin there but mine has thickened up since dong this). I actually do a pinch and twist motion now all around the eyes and face - down to the bone - I feel the orbital and even directly beneath the eyball I pinch and twist slightly.

Sis

When I think of the 9 months I wasted trying to get anyone to tell me exactly that description... Rolling Eyes

free skin care · Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:55 am

Kassy_A wrote:

When I think of the 9 months I wasted trying to get anyone to tell me exactly that description... Rolling Eyes

lol Kassy, thanks Sis, this is really useful, I've been kind of worried that I'm being too rough and will damage my undereye area, but since you are doing the twisting thing as well, I'm probably ok to do this!

Looking forward to the skin there thickening up, it will make such a difference. its paper thin now Sad

free skin care · Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:02 am

Sister Sweet

I can definitely see that will have a good reaction, but I wouldn't advise anyone to be doing that one daily.... as the could actually be presenting a challenge to their eye area when its in the midst of repairing that area.

I have seen so many different suggestions, and its effective for sure.... but done daily it doesn't seem to have as great an effect on the eye area because you are causing there to be another challenge in the midst of having already stimulated the eye (but Kassy try this out daily for instance, and see how your eyes respond).

With the FE massage, there are some techniques that are hard to put on paper because quite frankly they cause panic and they are often misintrepreted by people. But thats one of the very same ones I did use initially and there is another I am trying to think of how to word to share.

sister sweets wrote:

When I massage around my eyes I pinch the area underneath (Yes, I know it's thin there but mine has thickened up since dong this). I actually do a pinch and twist motion now all around the eyes and face - down to the bone - I feel the orbital and even directly beneath the eyball I pinch and twist slightly.

The body has a reparative response to this type of injury - it is the laying down of collagen. It happens in a larger way when we see scar tissue occuring. This the way the body is repairing itself - in the laying down of collagen fibers - thus causing the thickening and building of the skin. I'm sure this is the same premise as brushing the skin.

Just my thoughts - I teach this same priniciple in my dental classes. It happens with gum tissue also.

Sis

free skin care · Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:03 am

LOL honestly Kassy, would you really have done that at the very start if you had been given that description? When I think of how long it took to get you to do the simple pinching and rolling technique....

Kassy_A wrote:

sister sweets wrote:

When I massage around my eyes I pinch the area underneath (Yes, I know it's thin there but mine has thickened up since dong this). I actually do a pinch and twist motion now all around the eyes and face - down to the bone - I feel the orbital and even directly beneath the eyball I pinch and twist slightly.

Sis

When I think of the 9 months I wasted trying to get anyone to tell me exactly that description... Rolling Eyes

free skin care · Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:10 am

SeanySeanUK wrote:

LOL honestly Kassy, would you really have done that at the very start if you had been given that description? When I think of how long it took to get you to do the simple pinching and rolling technique...

What took long was learning to do it *correctly*! I did the massage from day one... In fact you might recall the thread way back last spring here at EDS, when I got beat up for asking you questions about undereye massage, and you referred me to the FE forum, because you didn't want to give away the info here.. It was there I learned about yanking and pulling the skin out ... Shock

What had me screwed up was the added direction everyone on the FE forum described, of "pull the skin out", "don't be afraid to be very aggressive" and roll and pinch etc.. If I had just did more pressing than pulling, I think it wouldn't have resulted in crepy undereye skin. Oh, and 'lower lid lift' didn't help matters either, with all the pulling down and holding of the lower lid ...

You must admit, based on all the 'eye uglies' threads on FE, that I am only one of many who encountered problems. But on the flip side, lots of people who commit to the program have extroardinary results... As with everything else, everybody's response to stimuli is unique and different.

For me it is all about the 'visual', I just wish I had found U-Tube sooner. But I'm all sorted out now, and my undereye area has firmed back up. It's amazing the videos they have there, that teach us everything we need to know to care for our skin. All manner of facial and deep tissue massage, face yoga and all manner of facial exercise, how to use gadgets properly, and my favorite lymphatic drainage facials.. Love that website

free skin care · Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:47 am

Sure of course I remember, and really wanted to help you in that thread, but was advised by moderators at the time that such instruction would be inviolation of EDS rules and that I would be banned if I did that.... so the only thing at the time I could do was suggest you visit the forum.

There really is not correctly when it comes to massage as we all start from different places. Again its perception, as if someone views Deb maybe massaging, it might look like she is pulling the skin, whereas in fact she is getting a grip, and when she grips the area between her thumb and forefinger, the tissue kind of squeezes out between them. Its not so much something that she does... more an effect of the thickened tissue having a reaction, but even if people did pull the skin and tissue out there, it would still long term have beneficial effects if the tissue etc was healthy, but if its in a state of neglect, then of course the eye area gets puffy and shows signs of stress immediately.

I think many people do get brainwashed by modern society which says don't touch the eye area, and the truth is that the eye area is one that actually needs to be touched. However, you can be aggressive with it, and yes signs of stress do show up initially, and if your image is important, you might not want to go that route... but there are many paths to the same destination, so you can just as easily go slowly (like your doing now) and work up to aggressive handling of the tissue.

The threads on eye uglies, actually there is a thread on everything ugly on the forum... usually is because some muscles develop faster than others, or some show signs of stress. We are all starting off from different places, we are different chemical mixtures etc and different genetics, but there is a way of stimulating all our tissues, but no one way will effect everyone identically.

Many of the FE exercises, such as lower lid lift do impact the lymphatic, and in fact when I first started, I was really shocked because I had done specific massage courses in learning how to stimulate the lymphatic, and often times during facial massage, people do get puffy eyes because the areas have been stimulated, but when they up their water intake and have a good nights sleep this goes away, but for me that particular exercise did seem to have almost identical effects as lymphatic eye area massage did, and its something I had to study in greater depth as part of that course.... and so its wonderful when people first begin that exercise and the lymphatic gets activated, but often they see this as a bad thing and presume its something wrong - when in actual reality, its showing them that their training is right on the mark... and so many people have that result and then think I am mad when I tell and try to explain its a good thing. I wish I could please everyone.... but life seems to be getting busier and busier.

I think the new dvd will be a great tool when it is in the making for sure.

free skin care · Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:00 pm

SeanySeanUK wrote:

Sure of course I remember, and really wanted to help you in that thread, but was advised by moderators at the time that such instruction would be inviolation of EDS rules and that I would be banned if I did that.... so the only thing at the time I could do was suggest you visit the forum.

Oh Sean, that is an out and out lie... You were trying to shut me up about my negative experience, and keep anybody that tried to
offer help quiet as well.. To this day all of your long winded posts reflect your desire to promote FE, but they are very evasive in answering specific questions.

What the moderators frown upon, is people promoting thier products for financial gain.. (Pretty much what you and Claudia have been doing with the new book!) They have no problem with people explaining the workings of what EDS members have purchased... For ex just think "Ageless", "302" +
"ZO" In fact isn't one of the reasons EDS is so great as well as popular, because people can freely share all of their experiences (good or bad) with each other? We also go into extreme detail when helping each other to fully understand whatever it is we are discussing.. It's really only FE that polices the threads, and jumps right in before any "secrets" or "hints" go too far.. In fact a good many of your posts on FE have been removed because some dope let the cat out of the bag.. So now it's even a mystery there.

Please don't ask me any more questions that you may not like the answers to... Let's you and I just agree to disagree at this point, and drop the back and forth banter now..

mowgli; start out gently, be well hydrated, have your skin lubricated, and incorporate more of a pressing motion, rather than pulling the skin out from the orbital bone.. So; press, pinch between fingers and roll.. It also promotes lymphatic drainage if you work from the outer eye inward. For me, I include the entire eye area, and start at the inside brow area, working all across the brow, around the entire eye, and ending at the inside lower eyelid (beside the nose).

It has definitely thickened the skin under my eyes.. I've noticed no change to the upper eye, which is in pretty good shape anyway.

Massage also has made the tops of my hands look nicer!!

free skin care · Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:23 pm

ruk1 wrote:

Also, congratulations on reaching 1000 posts!

thanks ruk! Time sure flies here doesn't it!

free skin care · Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:08 pm

SeanySeanUK wrote:

I think the new dvd will be a great tool when it is in the making for sure.

There is a dvd already? right?

free skin care · Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:25 pm

Yes Shelly! There's one out right now!

free skin care · Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:09 pm

I've been doing my pinch and twist (it's a slight twist - try it one way and then the other) around the eyes for about 8 months - probably 4X a week and it works. My skin has responded well. So much less thinner around the eye in general.
For those who have discomfort - take it slower - pinch lighter and make it manageable and over time you will be able to work up to it.

A day off every other day or so will allow your body to catch up and respond... and then be ready for action again.

Totally works. Go For It.

free skin care · Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:13 am

Hey Shelly

There is a dvd in existence, which demonstrates a mix of 14 exercises (of varying degrees, some basic, some advanced).

It doesn't demonstrate all the exercises in the book at the moment, but there is one planned for making later on.

Thank you.

shellybutorac wrote:

SeanySeanUK wrote:

I think the new dvd will be a great tool when it is in the making for sure.

There is a dvd already? right?

free skin care · Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:18 am

Kassy if we go back to your experience... I was seriously trying to offer to help you with the technique (which is probably something I shouldn't have done because it hasn't benefited me in any way, shape or form, in fact quite the opposite).

You will remember others even asked me on that thread if I would help you if you PM'd me and the answer was "Yes, I would be more than happy to help Kassy or anyone else". I am by no means policing this or any other thread.

Yes many of my posts were deleted, and this explained why in the forums why but lets go over it again. The information was taken word for word and posted elsewhere. In fact, many of my answers to questions were actually reproduced in response to questions... and they were incorrect and wouldn't have helped people in the long run. Sometimes information doesn't necessarily guarantee knowledge. If people had been using my information, they would be right in thinking that the info came from the FE forum (because it did) but it came in response to a different persons question, who had specific issues and so the answer was at that time tailored to the individual concerned.... it isn't so much a case of one answer will satisfy everyone's issue.

In fact, I am still answering questions on the FE forum, in as much depth and more depth than probably before, so if there are still such mysteries, why not ask?

As to asking questions I may not like the answers to - I wasn't aware that I asked any but apologise if I have, but thanks for answering in such detail and as you say lets just stop communicating. You know with me self promoting myself, I am going to leave EDS again, as you obviously know much more than I ever could (and I bow to your knowledge) and apologise for the inconvience I have caused you and anyone else. I'll go back to the FE forums, which after all is where I am best as I answer questions only there!

Do me a favour though - avoid the new book when it comes out. You got so many programs already, and I think your only use it as an exercise to be more negative and thats something I would rather live without!

Kassy_A wrote:

SeanySeanUK wrote:

Sure of course I remember, and really wanted to help you in that thread, but was advised by moderators at the time that such instruction would be inviolation of EDS rules and that I would be banned if I did that.... so the only thing at the time I could do was suggest you visit the forum.

Oh Sean, that is an out and out lie... You were trying to shut me up about my negative experience, and keep anybody that tried to
offer help quiet as well.. To this day all of your long winded posts reflect your desire to promote FE, but they are very evasive in answering specific questions.

What the moderators frown upon, is people promoting thier products for financial gain.. (Pretty much what you and Claudia have been doing with the new book!) They have no problem with people explaining the workings of what EDS members have purchased... For ex just think "Ageless", "302" +
"ZO" In fact isn't one of the reasons EDS is so great as well as popular, because people can freely share all of their experiences (good or bad) with each other? We also go into extreme detail when helping each other to fully understand whatever it is we are discussing.. It's really only FE that polices the threads, and jumps right in before any "secrets" or "hints" go too far.. In fact a good many of your posts on FE have been removed because some dope let the cat out of the bag.. So now it's even a mystery there.

Please don't ask me any more questions that you may not like the answers to... Let's you and I just agree to disagree at this point, and drop the back and forth banter now..

mowgli; start out gently, be well hydrated, have your skin lubricated, and incorporate more of a pressing motion, rather than pulling the skin out from the orbital bone.. So; press, pinch between fingers and roll.. It also promotes lymphatic drainage if you work from the outer eye inward. For me, I include the entire eye area, and start at the inside brow area, working all across the brow, around the entire eye, and ending at the inside lower eyelid (beside the nose).

It has definitely thickened the skin under my eyes.. I've noticed no change to the upper eye, which is in pretty good shape anyway.

Massage also has made the tops of my hands look nicer!!

free skin care · Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:19 am

I 100% agree, that it works.... seriously, as it activates connective tissue and everything, but the only thing I would advise is in the beginning not to do it daily as its quite intense and advanced, but work up to it. Also it does stimulate the body big time, so the body will start reproducing collagen, but if you do it daily, you might interupt that process.

However, I love the description! Its perfect. I do something similar about 3-4 x a week and its always worked wonders for me!

sister sweets wrote:

I've been doing my pinch and twist (it's a slight twist - try it one way and then the other) around the eyes for about 8 months - probably 4X a week and it works. My skin has responded well. So much less thinner around the eye in general.
For those who have discomfort - take it slower - pinch lighter and make it manageable and over time you will be able to work up to it.

A day off every other day or so will allow your body to catch up and respond... and then be ready for action again.

Totally works. Go For It.

Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:13 pm

sister sweets wrote:

I've been doing my pinch and twist (it's a slight twist - try it one way and then the other) around the eyes for about 8 months - probably 4X a week and it works. My skin has responded well. So much less thinner around the eye in general.
For those who have discomfort - take it slower - pinch lighter and make it manageable and over time you will be able to work up to it.

A day off every other day or so will allow your body to catch up and respond... and then be ready for action again.

Totally works. Go For It.

As a newbie, I'm one that find it kind of hurts right now so I'll try that Sis and Toby—slower and lighter with a goal of working up to it.... DH came home on Tuesday and asked why I had hickies on either side of my neck!! Shock

At first I couldn't figure out what he was talking about, but, truth is, it seems that I gave them to myself when doing the neck exercise from Day 2 of Ageless. Rolling Eyes

free skin care · Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:50 pm

havana8 wrote:

sister sweets wrote:

I've been doing my pinch and twist (it's a slight twist - try it one way and then the other) around the eyes for about 8 months - probably 4X a week and it works. My skin has responded well. So much less thinner around the eye in general.
For those who have discomfort - take it slower - pinch lighter and make it manageable and over time you will be able to work up to it.

A day off every other day or so will allow your body to catch up and respond... and then be ready for action again.

Totally works. Go For It.

As a newbie, I'm one that find it kind of hurts right now so I'll try that Sis and Toby—slower and lighter with a goal of working up to it.... DH came home on Tuesday and asked why I had hickies on either side of my neck!! Shock

At first I couldn't figure out what he was talking about, but, truth is, it seems that I gave them to myself when doing the neck exercise from Day 2 of Ageless. Rolling Eyes

Havana - How are your hickies coming along????

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