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Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:14 pm  |
Thanks Zizi! What are the units of the DHA/ EPA please, can you confirm 0.66g = 660mg?
Felicity: Which source of omega-3 are you taking, is that 1g of product or 1g of combined DHA/ EPA?
The tests were run on post-menopausal women and the product contains isoflavones. Someone being pre-menopausal and taking O-3 plus lycopene is not equivalent to their subjects taking all three, because they are starting from a 'hormone deficiency'. We also don't know the selection criteria for the women, probably those not already taking any supplements nor HRT.
Not so much a 'special delivery system' but perhaps utilising synergisms already known about. Lycopene is best absorbed with lipids IIRC, which the fish oil supplies. Furthermore some forms (NOT sources) of isoflavone *may* be absorbed better than others, and they do not divulge their source. Perhaps more interesting is that sorbitol is a prebiotic as well as a sweetener ... why sweeten gelatin capsules? Perhaps because the gut flora contribute to metabolism and absorption of isoflavones? That is speculation of course, I haven't researched which specific bacteria are key here nor their preferred foodsource. There is stuff on PubMed if anyone is interested in following this up.
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/132/8/2199.full
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/130/3/654.long
Wouldn't call that dose of vitamin C low - it is double the US RDA and triple the UK. More is not necessarily better with vitamin C, with long term high doses some sources claim you excrete the excess, some think you downgrade intake and others believe it is beneficial. The key *may* be that the subjects were taking in the vitamin consistently, particularly if those who supplemented were selected out. Check this out for average US, UK and Germany fruit and veggie consumption http://www.gallup.com/poll/150461/britons-eat-produce-americans-germans.aspx |
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Sensitivity, forehead pigmentation & elevens, nose & chin clogged pores. Topicals: Aloe vera, squalane, lactic acid, Myfawnie KinNiaNag HG: Weleda calendula, Lanolips, Guinot masque essentiel, Flexitol Naturals, Careprost. Gadgets: Vaughter dermarollers, Lightstim. |
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Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:39 pm |
| Do they have any scientific studies on their product? |
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Claudia of FlexEffect... 43, fair skin, occasional breakout, Using ECO FROG (my own=disclaimer), and TrueScience (I also sell this)... Happy with that...Come visit on FB! |
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Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:57 pm |
I am skeptical of what I consider designer supplements - eg: geared at women who seem in desperate search of the magic bullet. (or as how it appears as presented by the manufacturer). I see the amounts and wonder at the magic within and of course the value of the delivery system and some synergistic value which may or may not be 'all that'.
In the end it helps to know lipid vs water soluble and other basic chem concepts. Marketing can be a powerful vehicle. |
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Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:30 pm |
| ClaudiaFE wrote: |
| Do they have any scientific studies on their product? |
See link posted earlier for more info.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21128314.300-first-antiwrinkle-pill-shows-signs-of-success.html?full=true |
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Sensitivity, forehead pigmentation & elevens, nose & chin clogged pores. Topicals: Aloe vera, squalane, lactic acid, Myfawnie KinNiaNag HG: Weleda calendula, Lanolips, Guinot masque essentiel, Flexitol Naturals, Careprost. Gadgets: Vaughter dermarollers, Lightstim. |
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cara123
New Member
 
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 2
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Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:57 am |
| I know I'm not allowed to post the website but has anyone tried biocorrex skincare capsules? I know you're all wondering whether supplements work but I just wanted to say I would swear by these!!! |
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Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:09 am |
| cara123 wrote: |
| I know I'm not allowed to post the website but has anyone tried biocorrex skincare capsules? I know you're all wondering whether supplements work but I just wanted to say I would swear by these!!! |
Hello cara,
Is this the correct link? 
http://www.biocorrex.com/skincare-capsules |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:19 am |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| cara123 wrote: |
| I know I'm not allowed to post the website but has anyone tried biocorrex skincare capsules? I know you're all wondering whether supplements work but I just wanted to say I would swear by these!!! |
Hello cara,
Is this the correct link?
http://www.biocorrex.com/skincare-capsules |
The "skin plump" is hydrolyzed collagen & hyaluronate. Which means these people are pulling the wool over your eyes. These proteins are never absorbed intact. They are made from animal hides in sludge pools digested with enzymes and acids. Yecch! Really just eat gelatin powder, its the same thing.
I'm so tired of these companies selling you total bunkum at inflated prices. It's QUACKERY folks, pure and simple. |
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Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:46 pm |
Hi DrJ,
would eating say a spoonfull of gelatin powder really benefit the skin?
thanks
Jackie xx |
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Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:10 pm |
| Jackie284 wrote: |
Hi DrJ,
would eating say a spoonfull of gelatin powder really benefit the skin?
thanks
Jackie xx |
Hi Jackie,
There is a short thread from a little while ago on this subject. 
Does Gelatin Have Skin Benefits?
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?tid=37193 |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:51 pm |
Would only help if you were suffering protein-calorie malnutrition (PCM). Otherwise adds strain to overburdened kidneys. |
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Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:16 pm |
| DrJ wrote: |
The "skin plump" is hydrolyzed collagen & hyaluronate. Which means these people are pulling the wool over your eyes. These proteins are never absorbed intact. They are made from animal hides in sludge pools digested with enzymes and acids. Yecch! Really just eat gelatin powder, its the same thing.
I'm so tired of these companies selling you total bunkum at inflated prices. It's QUACKERY folks, pure and simple. |
So, does this mean all hyaluronic acid and collagen supplements are useless? I have been taking this supplement: Doctor's Best Hyaluronic Acid. It has a lot of great reviews. http://www.iherb.com/Doctor-s-Best-Best-Hyaluronic-Acid-with-Chondroitin-Sulfate-60-Capsules/4457 |
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Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:50 pm |
| packratmack wrote: |
| DrJ wrote: |
The "skin plump" is hydrolyzed collagen & hyaluronate. Which means these people are pulling the wool over your eyes. These proteins are never absorbed intact. They are made from animal hides in sludge pools digested with enzymes and acids. Yecch! Really just eat gelatin powder, its the same thing.
I'm so tired of these companies selling you total bunkum at inflated prices. It's QUACKERY folks, pure and simple. |
So, does this mean all hyaluronic acid and collagen supplements are useless? I have been taking this supplement: Doctor's Best Hyaluronic Acid. It has a lot of great reviews. http://www.iherb.com/Doctor-s-Best-Best-Hyaluronic-Acid-with-Chondroitin-Sulfate-60-Capsules/4457 |
Problems.
1. Natural HA is way too big to be absorbed. Some companies go to great lengths to create lowe molecular weight versions (they are polymers, so its possible). But these are no long "natural" molecules. They wrap them into liposomes, etc
2. If you could get some absorbed, where would it go? First to liver (its called first pass), where the liver sees it and says "that;s not natural" and tends to degrade or detoxify it, which means breaking it down into amino acids.
3. If it gets to the kidneys, it will likely be excreted, again ots not natural and you body wants to get rid of it.
4. No preference for skin, so the skin has no ability to "grab" it from blood.
5. Even if it gets into skin, and into the matrix, it cannot be incorporated into the bundles and fibers. Besides which, if the protein making machinery is on, it likes to make HA itself, and different tissues all do it a bit differently.
If you can overcome all these problems with some good science, I'll change my mind. Meanwhile I am a skeptic. |
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Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:45 pm |
| Never tried them but they seem interesting. |
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Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:13 pm |
Thanks for answering DrJ. If only there were a sure way to get hyaluronic acid through diet. I am quoting this from an article I just found: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/hyaluronic-acid-how-the-bodybuilding-supplement-may-fight-aging.htm
"It wasn't long ago when I sat in sheer amazement with my eyes glued to an episode of 20/20 that featured people in the village of Yuzurihara, Japan. I wanted to go there, I wanted to live like these people do and find out what kept them so young. Yuzurihara seemed like a true fountain of youth. Neither genetics, nor living a perfect lifestyle could explain the good health and youthful appearance of the people in this village that sits just 2 hours from Tokyo.
Some smoked, others labored outside for years without sunscreen and yet their skin looked as smooth as a baby's behind. Their sons and daughters who moved to America and adopted a Westernized diet looked older, developed obesity and other chronic health problems indicating that they didn't win the genetic lottery. So, it had to be something else and quite possibly their hyaluronic acid rich diet.
Back to Yuzurihara, Japan, a village that consumes different foods than other areas in the country. Their diet is rich in potatoes such as satsumaimo, satoimo (sticky potatoes), the root vegetable konyaku and potato root imoji. According to the documentation, some scientists believe that these unique foods enhance the body's production of hyaluronic acid.
How can you enhance your body's production of hyaluronic acid? If scientists definitively knew the answer to this question, more people would eat their way to the fountain of youth instead of paying hundreds of dollars on facial fillers."
I need to get a hold of some of those sticky potatoes. |
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cara123
New Member
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 2
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Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:38 am |
| Hi Dr J - thanks for the advice. I know it's dumb but I really do think I see a difference in my skin. It's deffo smoother and strangely not so 'tight' anymore when I go without creams - if you get what I mean. I thought that might be the hyaluronic acid (I thought they'd probably have put the best stuff in since it's priced quite steep) but d'you mind having a look at all the capsules - there are 5 - and all their ingredients and telling me what might be making my skin more glowy and plump. I mean it is defininately happening but I'd just like to understand what it is in the product that's making it happen. I've been taking it for a while now....Thanks. Would appreciate it. |
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Tue May 22, 2012 7:52 am |
I bought the different vitamins individually that are in the Beauty Within product, have been taking them for a while. Not sure if they have worked or not as I have been using the tripollar stop and have had some microdermabrasion and ipl treatments. My skin is looking pretty good, but it could be from any or all of these things 
omega 3
vit e 30mg
vit c 180mg
lycopene 3mg
soy isoflavones 40mg
I did go for a consultation for Sculptra, as I liked the idea of a product that builds up your own collagen rather than using a filler like restalyn, but the doc said I didn't need it. I did argue for a bit but I guess really it shows she is a good practitioner if she won't let you have something you don't need.
IF anyone else has tried Strength within I would be very interested in hearing if it worked/made no difference, whichever!
Cheers
F x |
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Tue May 22, 2012 10:55 am |
Dark Moon, ha is a natural substance that gathers around spots in the body that are healing. Its presence does not establish cause.
About hydrolized collagen, from wikipedia:
| Quote: |
Digestibility
The bioavailability of hydrolyzed collagen was demonstrated in a 1999 study; mice orally administered 14C hydrolyzed collagen digested and absorbed more than 90% within 6 hours, with measurable accumulation in cartilage and skin.[5] A 2005 study found hydrolyzed collagen absorbed as small peptides in the blood.[6]
Skin Health
A preclinical study investigated the effects of oral ingestion of hydrolyzed collagen, along with vitamin C and glucosamine, suggested that the moisture content of skin, its viscoelastic properties, and smoothness benefit.[7]
The mechanism of action of ingested hydrolyzed collagen on skin may be the increased density of collagen fibrils and the fibroblasts density (the fibroblasts being the main cells of the dermis, and those producing collagen).[8] It may be that that the peptides of ingested hydrolyzed collagen have chemotactic properties on fibroblasts [9] or an influence on growth of fibroblasts.[10]
Joint & Bone Health
Clinical studies report that the oral ingestion of hydrolyzed collagen decreases joint pain, those with the most severe symptoms showing the most benefit.[11][12]
Other clinical trials have yielded mixed results. Four studies reported benefit with no side effects; however, the studies were not extensive, and all recommended further controlled study.[13][14][15][16] One study found that oral collagen only improved symptoms in a minority of patients and reported nausea as a side effect.[17] Another study reported no improvement in disease activity in patients with rheumatoid arthritis.[18] Another study found that collagen treatment may actually cause an exacerbation of rheumatoid arthritis symptoms.[19]
Beneficial action is likely due to hydrolyzed collagen accumulation in the cartilage [5] and stimulated production of collagen by the chondrocytes, the cells of cartilage.[20]
Several studies have shown that a daily intake of hydrolyzed collagen increases bone mass density.[21][4] It seems that hydrolyzed collagen peptides stimulated differentiation and osteoblasts activity- the cells that build bone- over that of osteoclasts (cells that destroy bone).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrolyzed_collagen |
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Tue May 22, 2012 11:26 am |
7Destiny,
I know we have HA naturally in our bodies, and it is just the fact somebody somewhere always finds something wrong with everything! I am not saying HA is bad, only that we can always find studies that show something supposedly alarming! 
| 7Destiny wrote: |
Dark Moon, ha is a natural substance that gathers around spots in the body that are healing. Its presence does not establish cause.
About hydrolized collagen, from wikipedia:
| Quote: |
Digestibility
The bioavailability of hydrolyzed collagen was demonstrated in a 1999 study; mice orally administered 14C hydrolyzed collagen digested and absorbed more than 90% within 6 hours, with measurable accumulation in cartilage and skin.[5] A 2005 study found hydrolyzed collagen absorbed as small peptides in the blood.[6]
Skin Health
A preclinical study investigated the effects of oral ingestion of hydrolyzed collagen, along with vitamin C and glucosamine, suggested that the moisture content of skin, its viscoelastic properties, and smoothness benefit.[7]
The mechanism of action of ingested hydrolyzed collagen on skin may be the increased density of collagen fibrils and the fibroblasts density (the fibroblasts being the main cells of the dermis, and those producing collagen).[8] It may be that that the peptides of ingested hydrolyzed collagen have chemotactic properties on fibroblasts [9] or an influence on growth of fibroblasts.[10]
Joint & Bone Health
Clinical studies report that the oral ingestion of hydrolyzed collagen decreases joint pain, those with the most severe symptoms showing the most benefit.[11][12]
Other clinical trials have yielded mixed results. Four studies reported benefit with no side effects; however, the studies were not extensive, and all recommended further controlled study.[13][14][15][16] One study found that oral collagen only improved symptoms in a minority of patients and reported nausea as a side effect.[17] Another study reported no improvement in disease activity in patients with rheumatoid arthritis.[18] Another study found that collagen treatment may actually cause an exacerbation of rheumatoid arthritis symptoms.[19]
Beneficial action is likely due to hydrolyzed collagen accumulation in the cartilage [5] and stimulated production of collagen by the chondrocytes, the cells of cartilage.[20]
Several studies have shown that a daily intake of hydrolyzed collagen increases bone mass density.[21][4] It seems that hydrolyzed collagen peptides stimulated differentiation and osteoblasts activity- the cells that build bone- over that of osteoclasts (cells that destroy bone).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrolyzed_collagen |
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_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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smithjons
New Member
Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 3
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Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:44 am |
| Dove Spa has worked to produce a range that approaches skincare both internally and externally. |
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Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:44 am |
| Has anyone heard of Imeeden Time Perfection tablets? They sound similar to Dove Strength Within, although I think they actually cost more |
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Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:27 am |
Just found this site which compares some of the anti ageing supplements, including both Dove Strength Within and Imedeen
http://www.skinsupplementscompare.com/
Interesting read, seems like most of them are just basic vitamins with a lot of marketing and a hefty price tag.
The review on Imedeen says that they have a new PR agency, which must be true as I read about Imedeen in the paper, saying how a load of celebrities swear by it, which made me want to buy it myself!
'The £25 beauty pill loved by Jessica Biel, Helena Christensen and Naomi Campbell now claims to reduce ageing by 48 per cent'
However I am glad I have done a bit of research before purchasing any of them. Got to admit its great PR though. |
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