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Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:45 pm  |
| Yubs wrote: |
Just FYI. I work in a healthcare education setting and have heard discussions about how surprisingly hard it can be to pierce the skin. |
Why then is it so easy for most of us to pierce the skin with a roller? The most prevalent discussion here on rolling has been the pain involved in the process. Piercing the skin involves/causes pain. |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:49 pm |
I imagine it's not easy to pierce the skin (although amazingly I've seen it first hand only using a sheet of paper lol)....joking around for a moment...but seriously now
When I am moving the My-M across my face and my face swells up like a balloon and there's blood everywhere...where do you think that comes from?
I am not trying to be a wise guy, but it does seem that some of these cheap knock offs have the ability to do *something* 
I need to look into whether any of these other devices are offered directly to consumers because now I am too curious.
BFG |
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Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:19 pm |
| Keliu wrote: |
| Yubs wrote: |
Just FYI. I work in a healthcare education setting and have heard discussions about how surprisingly hard it can be to pierce the skin. |
Why then is it so easy for most of us to pierce the skin with a roller? The most prevalent discussion here on rolling has been the pain involved in the process. Piercing the skin involves/causes pain. |
Note I said "surprisingly hard". That means that based on what skin appears to be, it is more difficult than we believe it should be to pierce it. Not that it's actually strenuously difficult.
Think how surprised you'd be if a butterfly's wing turned out to have the consistency of a thin rubberband. That's the kind of surprise I'm talking about. Human skin looks more like the wing but functions more like the rubberband. And even though we can pierce both the wing and the rubberband easily, the rubberband is inarguably "harder" to poke a hole in.
I think one problem with rollers and pain is rollers are just plain inefficient as transmitters of force. You can't go very fast with a roller, and the downward pressure is dispersed across a larger surface area of skin.
Plus, I think there's a mental thing about wounding ourselves. I check my blood sugar regularly as I unfortunately seem to have developed insulin resistance, and I know I'd rather use a spring-loaded lancet with reliable force to get blood than try to use a manual lancet with only my other hand to generate the piercing force. Slower speed + less downward force = more pain.
Maybe that's why the DJ and even the My-m at 1.5 didn't hurt nearly as much as my 0.5 roller. The heads of the auto-needlers are smaller so the downward force doesn't dissipate across a larger surface area. Plus, the automatic stamping motion allows more downward force to be generated to pierce the skin. |
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Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:38 pm |
| Yubs wrote: |
Maybe that's why the DJ and even the My-m at 1.5 didn't hurt nearly as much as my 0.5 roller. The heads of the auto-needlers are smaller so the downward force doesn't dissipate across a larger surface area. Plus, the automatic stamping motion allows more downward force to be generated to pierce the skin. |
All I can say is, that after having used a roller for several years, mostly without Emla - I find it impossible to use the My-M without Emla and religiously leave it on for over an hour to get as much numbing as possible.
And, yes, our skin is very resilient - it has to be, otherwise we would be inuring ourselves constantly. However, when you "go at it" with needles I think it's very easy to draw blood. |
_________________
Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:00 am |
My friend was a model in a micro-needling demo last night and it was a comedy of errors. Thank goodness she wasn't a "real" client. First the needle cartridge was messed up somehow and it felt sticky and draggy. Changed that out and the cordless battery died while still on the forehead. Turns out someone forgot to read the instructions on charging it. It wasn't all me, I had a co-worker that apparently can't read either!
Switched out units and needles AGAIN and finished the demo. Her forehead is scratched up. Needle drag can be real! I have never had that happen before and I have done maybe 50 this spring.
I can't imagine anyone getting my same results since so many things went wrong! The rest of the face looks good and I look forward to seeing her improvement around the eyes. |
_________________
Esthetician working at a Med-spa. Love the Clarisonic! |
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Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:43 pm |
Just thought I'd add my review of the my-m. I got amazing penetration with the needles, far better than any previous dermaroller treatment before. Though I usually had pinpoint bleeding with the roller, I bled profusely with the my-m, as in I had to keep wiping my face for the blood dripping down it.
One my-m treatment so far provided significant improvement in the lines above my lips, which is the only thing I have ever tried that has done anything to lessen them, including strong tca's etc. six weeks since the treatment, I am thrilled with how much shallower the wrinkles are. I believe I will be able to get rid of them with the my-m. It makes so many more holes than I was ever able to make with the roller, and I think this is key to the collagen building process.
I am due for my next treatment. This time I may not go any deeper than 1mm, and maybe 1.5 on the lip lines, as last time I may have done more than necessary, and I will also include a roller for the larger areas that don't require such concentrated treatment from the my-m to make the treatment a little quicker. Last time I really bruised around the eyes, and was very swollen for a few days.
As far as the my-m being able to penetrate skin, it can mine! I certainly don't need anything more powerful, and although I admire the efforts of the owndoc team to come up with a good device, I'm not sure I like the idea of the strength of the punch that the dermajet has for my own skin. I think the my-m is possibly more similar to the other professional devices, ie more like a sewing needle type of strength. Either way, I agree that some may be made better than others, and its possible some such as Yub's have gotten a faulty device (as we have heard has happened also with the dermajets too). The my-m is definitely not the be all and end all, as it is certainly not worth any more than I paid for it, but agree with Keliu says: as little as I intend to use it, I am happy that it does the job as indicated. I will keep my eyes open for improved devices down the track, but am happy with what I have for now.
I do think electric dermastamping is quite an improvement results wise (at least for me) than dermarolling for all the reasons that have been discussed - difficult to wound yourself, this makes it *slightly* easier, many more holes created, goes to the correct depth unlike when rolling many cannot use the right pressure etc. |
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Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:49 am |
Hello Idealist, thank you for your post.
You are saying that it took only 6 weeks, after one My-M needling session, to significantly improve the wrinkles on your upper lip area?
Not sure you took any before and after photos, but would love to see them, if you did.
Thanks, BFG |
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Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:28 am |
Hi BFG,
Yes! My lip lines are significantly visibly reduced from the one treatment. I am in the gungho family of DIYers though, and went over them (and the parenthesis I have) repeatedly with the needle on 2mm. I really spent a lot of time there, and blood was running down my mouth, which I needed to continually wipe. I found it was near painless with the emla. I do wish I took before and afters. It would certainly be possible to find some, but would mean going through pictures my husband has taken on a different computer and zooming in, trying to match up with a new one etc. I am about to do treatment number two, in which I hope for even greater resolve of this area that has troubled me since I was young (and has accelerated a whole lot of late - most likely due to the hormonal issues I am having).
I would say that the wrinkles have improved 60-70%, which is far more than I expected, and makes quite a difference aesthetically. I do believe I will be able to get rid of them or at least mostly with some more treatments. At least I hope so. Of course I am always making the same movements that created the wrinkles in the first place, so its an uphill battle. I have never found anything else that has worked on my lip lines.
I forgot to me mention that the melasma that I came back from a month in India with worsened (large patches over forehead and cheekbones, both darker and some white spots too - just bad sundamage?) has also improved considerably so that I can just go out with tinted moisturizer/sunscreen, and have it be imperceptible. It required concealer a few months ago. However I have also been using a great diy concoction and a sqoom for penetration which I find enjoyable to use for massage, and like the lymph drainage. It is as with most things a combination of things I guess, but I think the dermapen sped things up. I have a reaura now to hopefully continue to repair the damage of years on beaches with no protection  |
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Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:02 pm |
I guess here is as good as anywhere to put my latest review on the My-M.
I decided to go a bit easier on my skin than last treatment, mainly because of the intense swelling I got last time (4 days) and bruising around my eyes. Last treatment I used 2mm on frown lines and forehead wrinkles (which actually showed some nice improvement!), and got a lot of bleeding, as well as around the mouth and lips. The rest of the time I stamped 1.5 over the face using no product.
This time I put a hyaluronic serum on my skin and set the length at 1mm. First I rolled the large areas with the roller, then applied the hyaluronic, and at 1 mm found I was able to circle the My-m over my skin very easily with no scratching. It glided very easily allowing me to concentrate on my problem spots as well as cover the entire area much more easily than at the longer length with the stamping technique.
I used it at .5 around my eyes, and was able to get a very good treatment due to ease of use there. I also treated neck and décolletage, but mainly concentrated on neck lines and rolled the larger areas.
I bled significantly less than the last treatment, although I still bled more than pinpricks, last time I was actually bleeding bleeding and needing to sop up the blood. This time I could just wipe down after finishing an area, or a couple of times during.
Four days in: I am still swollen red and dry, though the bruising is significantly less. The bruising last time was caused by using a stamping motion over my eye area. I avoided it this time with the glide.
My skin is very reactive and prone to swelling, however the dermapen treatments, while less painful seem to be far more effective for me. I love being able to treat to effectively around my eyes and mouth (the areas I most care to improve the skin) and individual wrinkles, and am happier knowing I can easily glide the My-M on lower needle lengths.
If I don't get a further reduction in the tiny lines left around my lips in another couple of months, I will go back to a deeper treatment there next time, as the first treatment was so effective.
All in all, I hate the down time I get swelling wise after the dermapen. I did my SO also the night before, concentrating around his eyes and frown lines (that's when I discovered how nicely it glides on 1mm), and while he was a little red and slightly puffy the next day, at his doctors appointment, the doc said "you look great with a bit of color!". If he saw me he'd send me to the hospital or put me on a course of prednisone. SO was fine at work the next day and just has a bit of dryness and microimflammation, whereas I am absolutely housebound. Hopefully tomorrow it will have settled. I'm just one of those swellers. |
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Thu Aug 01, 2013 6:19 pm |
| I would suggest you don't do 2mm on the forehead again. .5 is plenty long on such a thin area. |
_________________
Esthetician working at a Med-spa. Love the Clarisonic! |
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Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:10 pm |
| Thanks LauraLizzie. This time I did use only 1mm, and this time,just like last there was no forehead trauma or swelling (that is reserved for around eyes and cheekbones). Maybe the first time it was just around the mouth I used 2mm, because the I had no issues. Yes, I think I used 1.5 everywhere and then 2 around the lips and parenthesis. Since I was used to a 1.5 roller, and I had never had much in the way of results or trouble with the length, (aside from the normal swelling and redness) I thought this was ok. I am happy to treat at 1mm or .5 if results are there! Perhaps the My-M isn't as powerful and doesn't penetrate as deeply as the devices you are using? |
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Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:48 am |
I think you want to keep in mind that pinpoint bleeding is OK. Blood leaking out of your face so much that it flows... Is too much.
I like to do .5 on forehead and around eyes and nose. 1-1.5 everywhere else
Maybe 2 on cheek scars or other points of interest.
I usually thin more is better but now I am starting to accept that POSSIBLY in just this case, less is more. I say this after still healing after a really aggressive pen done on Wednesday that I am still healing from. |
_________________
Esthetician working at a Med-spa. Love the Clarisonic! |
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Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:41 am |
| Idealist wrote: |
| I really spent a lot of time there, and blood was running down my mouth, which I needed to continually wipe. I found it was near painless with the emla. I do wish I took before and afters. |
Oooh. I only saw this today...made my eyes water just reading it.  Idealist, you must be a real stoic!
One thing I did notice the other day when re-reading the dermal needling manual is that there was some evidence that more frequent shorter-needle sessions might be more beneficial in the long run than intense, longer-needle sessions. I left the book at work but will check tomorrow when I go back. |
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Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:29 am |
| LauraLizzie wrote: |
I think you want to keep in mind that pinpoint bleeding is OK. Blood leaking out of your face so much that it flows... Is too much.
I like to do .5 on forehead and around eyes and nose. 1-1.5 everywhere else
Maybe 2 on cheek scars or other points of interest.
I usually thin more is better but now I am starting to accept that POSSIBLY in just this case, less is more. I say this after still healing after a really aggressive pen done on Wednesday that I am still healing from. |
Oh, I do so understand the post treatment 'rethinking phase'. It sounds like you treated very similarly to my last treatment, though I think probably with a better device. A stronger device I probably don't need, unless its easier to use, always like the beautifully made things I would love to be able to glide a device on 1.5 for some areas, but alas that is not possible with the My-M.
I know what you are saying, and the blood needing to be sopped up is graphic, but two things: I take an NSAID that I would rather have stopped but need for my joints, and boy oh boy was I happy with those results. Also, peoples skin varies in thickness. Although I am very reactive and swell prone, I think my skin has good thickness in general. My forehead was absolutely fine with 1-1.5mm. No problems whatsoever, just some redness/roughness as expected. I really did see a scar that has never seen improvement resolve up 50-60%, and I don't care how much my mouth bled, those lip lines were the bane of my life. I get intense irritation and swelling from a .2 roller, so I can't even use one of those. It seems I react regardless, so I definitely want results when I do it. If I get less results this time from going easier I will be a bit disappointed, because the swelling and redness has been equally as bad as last time with the longer lengths. Thankfully the swelling has finally gone down, and I am left with my typical red roughness which will persist for a week, until my skin slowly normalizes over the next fortnight. I work on barrier repair during this phase.
I read all that Yubs and found it exciting as well for the most part, hence using the shorter lengths. Only problem for me is that I react with the swelling and long healing time regardless as to what length I seem to use, so I would personally prefer to have to treat less but more intensely, seeing I am out of action for at least four days anyway. Thankfully the research may be suggesting that you don't need the long lengths for collagen induction, seeing as it is all growing at around the same level in the upper dermis, I think around .5 mm beneath epidermis. So hopefully the shorter lengths will do everything the longer ones do anyway.
I am definitely not encouraging others to use these depths on their faces with electric devices. All of the devices vary in strength, people use pressure at varying intensities (which makes a huge difference in the depth of the hole!), and skin thickness varies a lot too. I think your guidelines are most certainly the best to stick to LauraLizzie. By the way, though uncomfortable now, I'm sure you will be pleased in a few days as your skin recovers. Do you have any problem areas you are treating, or is this more preventative? I think it is good that you have personally experienced a more intense treatment, so you know exactly what your clients will go through. |
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Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:33 am |
| Idealist wrote: |
Hi BFG,
Yes! My lip lines are significantly visibly reduced from the one treatment. I am in the gungho family of DIYers though, and went over them (and the parenthesis I have) repeatedly with the needle on 2mm. I really spent a lot of time there, and blood was running down my mouth, which I needed to continually wipe. I found it was near painless with the emla. I do wish I took before and afters. It would certainly be possible to find some, but would mean going through pictures my husband has taken on a different computer and zooming in, trying to match up with a new one etc. I am about to do treatment number two, in which I hope for even greater resolve of this area that has troubled me since I was young (and has accelerated a whole lot of late - most likely due to the hormonal issues I am having).
I would say that the wrinkles have improved 60-70%, which is far more than I expected, and makes quite a difference aesthetically. I do believe I will be able to get rid of them or at least mostly with some more treatments. At least I hope so. Of course I am always making the same movements that created the wrinkles in the first place, so its an uphill battle. I have never found anything else that has worked on my lip lines.
I forgot to me mention that the melasma that I came back from a month in India with worsened (large patches over forehead and cheekbones, both darker and some white spots too - just bad sundamage?) has also improved considerably so that I can just go out with tinted moisturizer/sunscreen, and have it be imperceptible. It required concealer a few months ago. However I have also been using a great diy concoction and a sqoom for penetration which I find enjoyable to use for massage, and like the lymph drainage. It is as with most things a combination of things I guess, but I think the dermapen sped things up. I have a reaura now to hopefully continue to repair the damage of years on beaches with no protection |
Sold! My upper lip lines are the bane of my existence. Everything else is much improved or improving, but they just hang in there. I've been toying with the idea of microneedling for a year or so now, I think I'm ready to bite the bullet! |
_________________
Derminator, phytoceramides, Retin-A, DIY Vitamin C serum, Ageless if You Dare and Pilates! |
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Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:02 pm |
Hi Immocolata,
There are some good photos about showing results on lip lines. They do see to respond well to this.
I'm sure you'll follow treatment protocol, either way, unless you take a lot of NSAIDs ( not recommended before treatment unless you like my sopping up description) or are like me, a major bleeder. No blood disorder, just a lot of capillaries that will spout forth.
Probably no need to go deeper that 1-1.5mm, even though my improvement only occurred with the my-m, and at a 2mm depth. By all accounts this may not be necessary, though for me it worked, healed fine and was not painful with the emla and the my-m. Deeper lengths increase likelihood of nerve damage etc (though I have not heard of this yet), so why not stick to shorter lengths if they work. I am hoping the shorter length works, otherwise I have gone through the whole rigmarole and two months for naught - I shouldn't say naught, because there is always some collagen induction, just not as exciting a result as I got with the big guns. I think LauraLizzie knows what she is talking about re. Dermapen lengths, even though her device probably penetrates better than my little Chinese knockoff.
Ps I will try to go through some photos at some point. Unfortunately they would be happy snaps in different lighting and angles though. It might be hard to find anything definitive, and a lot of work! |
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Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:06 pm |
I'll probably start with 1.0 since I am such a sissy. I'll for sure be a major consumer of numbing cream. I hate pain!
Oh well, as Mommie Dearest used to say as she was ripping the snarls from my ponytail,
"It takes pain to be pretty!" |
_________________
Derminator, phytoceramides, Retin-A, DIY Vitamin C serum, Ageless if You Dare and Pilates! |
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Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:14 pm |
Lol!i hope you are joking! Though it certainly does seem to be true for us 'oldies' ie anyone over 30 that wants to start staving off the aging process 
1mm should be great with an electric device. Can't wait to hear how it goes. Numbing is an absolute must, I feel with any rolling. I even couldn't handle the .2! I must be a real baby because apparently people do that every night. I tried it once, it hurt like the longer needles and I swelled up and went through the healing as though it was too, without the great results.
Spot treating should be fine too. I thought about avoiding the rigmarole of the whole face treatment, swelling etc, and just doing the lips, which are perfectly acceptable for going out soon after. Having swollen lips actually looks pretty good! I may consider that at some point, but I am interested in improving the quality of my entire facial and neck skin, so alas I must suffer.
Ps, not everyone swells like me. Many like Yubs and my SO just seem to get a bit red and have what I would consider microimflammation. Oh how I would love to be like that. I actually think that is far more common than ol' pumpkin head me. I am interested to hear what kind of reaction LauraLizzie is having.
Oh one mo thing before I forget. I did the SO about seven weeks ago for his first dermapen too, and he had significant wrinkling under the eyes, and a patch that had lost elasticity. I concentrated on that area and the frown lines. I was amazed that before this next treatment to see that the skin had thickened and increased in elasticity, and the wrinkled patch had 'disappeared' or should I say blended with the rest of the skin which is more general wrinkling rather the elasticity issue. Ugh it's hard to explain. The skin I am talking about is beneath the orbital bone, so not the thin eye skin. Sun damaged skin. His frown lines had also decreased in depth. He really didn't enjoy his first treatment AT ALL, however agreed that the results were so beneficial that it was totally worth it, and was happy to go again (I was surprised actually). This treatment was far more pleasant as I wasn't doing the stamping on him. He is older and has thinner skin than me, so 1mm is definitely enough depth. I am pretty amazed at the results you can get out of this device. That said, I do spend quite a bit of time over the trouble spots. There is definitely no maceration of the skin, but I want to ensure I get plenty of holes. I know this device is not a pro device, so I use it in a way I think might give me the best results out of it. I am not encouraging others to do the same. My SO's skin looks fine the next day, so obviously no damage is being done. I have what you would consider fine lines (which were worsening around the lips), he has/had deep lines which are moving more toward medium depth even after one intensive dermapen. I'm excited! |
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Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:40 pm |
| Keep in mind that much of what you are seeing so soon is probably still inflammation. I didn't really start to see real results until the 4-6 month point. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:55 pm |
I have used single needle to treat the smile line on one side of my face, next few days I was very happy that it disappeared almost completely but then it returned as inflammation subsided
Since then I have done the same for a couple of more times in the last year or so and I do see a visible improvement..
I was wondering if someone has tried needling their stomach lines??? I can never do it with a single needle , I ll try it out whenever I get an automated thingie.. but anyone else tried it, any improvement?
Thank you |
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Fri Aug 02, 2013 6:27 pm |
| bethany wrote: |
| Keep in mind that much of what you are seeing so soon is probably still inflammation. I didn't really start to see real results until the 4-6 month point. |
Totally agree. Not to discourage you, but long term results don't kick in for several months, so be aware of the inflammation and be careful with it. |
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Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:32 am |
Hmm interesting. I keep a pretty close eye on my inflammation and micro inflammation, managing it after the initial few days with Biafine which is a barrier repair product some PS and derms prescribe for patients after they have undergone laser and deep peeling treatments (not as good as Epionce Medical it seems which I have ordered now). My inflammation seems to pretty much be resolved by the fourth week or so, and I keep a really close eye on it. I think that is completely viable regarding microinflammation following this treatment. If it was lasting longer than that I would be concerned about more damaging effects from the treatments.
However, you do bring up a very interesting point. 8 weeks prior to my second last dermapen I performed a 1.5 dermaroller treatment. My reaction as always was similar ie. plenty of bleeding, and swelling for four days before being left with residual dryness (not redness as I initially listed, that resolves with any swelling as has this dermapen treatment). I have a 1.5 three line for use around my lips and other areas of concern. Of course I really worked the lip lines to the best of my ability despite finding it significantly more painful than the dermapen there (I can only imagine it must be the more rapid needle penetration?). Anyway, after the inflammation settled, as usual I didn't see any noteworthy results to my lip lines or elsewhere realizing as you say I realize that its not an instantaneous process. However in a couple of months I wouldn't think it was entirely silly to expect to see something in the way of an improvement, at least as far as what I have seen and read there should be some collagen growth - obviously the full results will not show until even a year later. But correct me if I am wrong, I thought studies have been done showing improvement and collagen growth at the 7-8 week period - I should go and check, though I found one medical paper last night for scars showing it was so. Anyway, now that you remind me, its possible that the results I have seen with my lip lines that I am absolutely convinced are real and not microinflammation may also be attributed to accumulative collagen growth from the treatment former treatment four months ago.
The reason I believe it is not microinflammation is because I watched closely as it went from the swelling stage of completely lineless to some of the lines slowly reappearing at the 2 wk point. At that point the result didn't look too impressive, and by three weeks I wasn't necessarily convinced a whole lot had happened, however over the next three to four weeks instead of seeing a gradual worsening of the lines back to base-line as you should as the inflammation gets better, instead I saw more and more improvement, until now I just have very superficial lines in the epidermis. Obviously I'm not talking leaps and bounds as you realize, collagen is not like that, but my lines aren't like 50 year old lines and super deep to begin with, just annoying lines that are premature for my age. Any improvement in this annoying problem is a huge thing for me as I have treated with strong tca, retin A, copper peptides, you name it, I've tried it! I believe I am seeing real results, but only time will tell. If after seven weeks I hadn't seen what I thought was some real improvement going on I'm not sure I would have been so enthusiastic to continue the torture, especially given that I am one of those that is so reactive. I understand the skepticism, believe it or not I lean that way myself.
Everyone is different ages, different anatomy, different amounts of growth factors etc. even in the papers you see such a vary in response rate to this treatment. Some people are completely 'fixed' in one treatment, whereas others have absolutely no results at all.
Onto my husbands skin, his inflammation settled even sooner than mine, probably around the 3 week mark, but real improvements weren't really visible until the last couple of weeks when we noticed that the loose patch of cross hatched damaged skin had improved to the point it was the same as the skin around it. Although he looked better, just a bit firmer in general, the difference could mostly be felt. His skin felt more elastic and thicker than the thin sun damaged skin I was feeling before. Now he is not as smooth as a twenty year old, far from it, but the improvements were good enough for a man who really isn't into this stuff at all to endure the rather unenjoyable treatment again, even kind of good naturedly, because he really thought he looked better. I think that says something (although I am very aware of the deceptive power of that microimflammation on wrinkles, his really only looks good - if inflammation could ever be thought to - for a week at best. Then he kind of returns close to base level as the rest of the less visible inflammation settles and the healing takes place.
Surely you believe SOME collagen induction can occur over a seven or so week period? |
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Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:43 pm |
| Idealist, I think the whole collagen producing process has kicked in at the 6 - 8 week timeframe, but not noticeably. But this is just my opinion and you are totally correct that everyone is different. Swelling from surgery can take up to a year to resolve, and swelling from fillers can take a month. I know that maybe I am not comparing apples to apples when discussing swelling/inflammation from procedures with that of needling, but I do think there are some similarities. If you have ever had surgery (any kind, not necessarily cosmetic) you know that the outside heals much faster than the inside. Please know that I am on the very conservative side of the inflammation discussion so you need to take my posts with a grain of salt |
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Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:14 pm |
In regard to fillers, pretty much every recommendation I find says that the swelling should be resolved in two weeks. Of course microimflammation might go on longer, but I wouldn't have thought too much, but I have no data on it. Many people have very minimal swelling, and some react more. Obviously within the tissues there is healing and micro inflammation, but I have not heard of this going on for 6 weeks. I am not sure surgery is relevant to this topic discussion. I would say due to the extreme invasive nature and different kinds of fibrosis and scarring and types of collagen etc it can't be compared especially on a swelling point.
Have you got any recommended sources of reading on this topic? If swelling is going on for this length of time I would find that very worrying, especially as I definitely fit into the highly inflammatory  category. Perhaps I should wait longer than 6-7 weeks between treatments? It can't be healthy for the skin to have inflammation ongoing for this length of time can it? I need to rethink things and look further into the inflammation angle. Is this info from the Setterfield book? I am amazed that what felt and looked like improved skin in my husband at the 7 week mark was inflammation too - and I am not refuting your knowledge because clearly I have not studied this angle thoroughly. I wonder if the laxness and texture issue will return? I definitely see the problem with inflammation for myself, but wonder if it is a longer term problem for everyone? Surely the recommendation to roll every six weeks with the longer lengths is a bad idea if this is true? Sorry to sound worried, but I don't think long term inflammation is a good thing for skin, in fact I think it has been proved that it is aging, and this makes dermarolling sound counter intuitive.
Still I am positive I see real collagen growth. Perhaps it is from the treatment 4 months ago (or an accumulation of both), but even a forehead scar I have formerly had little improvement with (actually I had seen some, but not a great degree) has fresh new skin amongst the shiny scar tissue. Now I know it being less than half as deep as it was could be swelling, but surely new skin covering more than half of it with little pores etc shows new growth? But you are right to keep my extreme exuberance in check, as it is not really right to set up unrealistic expectations for others after such a short period. Although I thought I had seen demonstrations of similar results, I may of course be mistaken.
What kind of results did you start to see at the 4-6 month mark? Thanks for anything you can share. |
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Sun Aug 04, 2013 6:46 pm |
I see the DJ thread was pulled. There was some useful general information in that thread, not specific to the DJ unit itself.
Any chance we could at least salvage those sections and put them in a sticky at the top? At some point, I am still hoping to start an automated needling thread.
BFG |
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| Fri Nov 28, 2025 11:11 am |
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