Nerium AD
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free skin care · Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:59 pm

rileygirl wrote:

LOL. Too funny. Well, with all of these stem cell type products, you should be looking about 21 when you are finished with your 5 bottles of goodies! Laughing

(plus you should be stocked for a good while now!!)

So I have lined up: 1 bottle of adipose skin cells (might cause cancer), 2 bottles of EGF (also thought to cause cancer) and 2 bottles of a known poison. Now, where's that dermaroller!!! Bad Grin

free skin care · Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:22 pm

Keliu wrote:

So I have lined up: 1 bottle of adipose skin cells (might cause cancer), 2 bottles of EGF (also thought to cause cancer) and 2 bottles of a known poison. Now, where's that dermaroller!!! Bad Grin

You are to funny Keliu. Thanks for being our guinea pig. Laughing

free skin care · Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:27 pm

Keliu wrote:

So I have lined up: 1 bottle of adipose skin cells (might cause cancer), 2 bottles of EGF (also thought to cause cancer) and 2 bottles of a known poison. Now, where's that dermaroller!!! Bad Grin

Giving new meaning to the "finding something that works or die trying"! Laughing

free skin care · Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:30 pm

rileygirl wrote:

Keliu wrote:

So I have lined up: 1 bottle of adipose skin cells (might cause cancer), 2 bottles of EGF (also thought to cause cancer) and 2 bottles of a known poison. Now, where's that dermaroller!!! Bad Grin

Giving new meaning to the "finding something that works or die trying"! Laughing

Love it!

free skin care · Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:56 am

Keliu wrote:

rileygirl wrote:

LOL. Too funny. Well, with all of these stem cell type products, you should be looking about 21 when you are finished with your 5 bottles of goodies! Laughing

(plus you should be stocked for a good while now!!)

So I have lined up: 1 bottle of adipose skin cells (might cause cancer), 2 bottles of EGF (also thought to cause cancer) and 2 bottles of a known poison. Now, where's that dermaroller!!! Bad Grin

You weren't kidding on hubby!!! LOL, your stocked up.

If you want just refuse the package when it arrives on the ones you ordered double of and wala, its returned and your refunded everything.

free skin care · Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:30 pm

Nerium International ended up issuing me a refund as they definitely don't ship internationally. However, I've received the bottle from Ebay.

The packaging is over-fancy and basically looks cheap and ugly. It is also impossible to see how much of the product is left in the bottle. The pump is very smooth though. The instructions say to use 4 or 5 pumps, which seems like allot - but the pump only delivers a very small amount. The serum sinks right in and is basically impossible to massage around the face - it has no slip at all. It's advised to apply the serum to a damp face - this makes it a little easier. After application, the skin feels extremely tight and dry. I have to say that I don't mind this at all. As I apply multiple serums, I prefer it if they disappear on the skin.

I've only been using it for two days - but so far, I like the texture of it and the way it makes my skin feel tight.

Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:02 pm

Keliu wrote:

rileygirl wrote:

LOL. Too funny. Well, with all of these stem cell type products, you should be looking about 21 when you are finished with your 5 bottles of goodies! Laughing

(plus you should be stocked for a good while now!!)

So I have lined up: 1 bottle of adipose skin cells (might cause cancer), 2 bottles of EGF (also thought to cause cancer) and 2 bottles of a known poison. Now, where's that dermaroller!!! Bad Grin

Keliu, I just noticed this thread and I guess you're joking about dermarolling with Nerium, but in case not...some info which may be of interest:

The IPCS (International Program on Chem Safety) Inchem report on Nerium Oleander: http://www.inchem.org/documents/pims/plant/pim366.htm. Section 7.2.1 deals with humans. Lethal ingested dose approximated at 0.5mg/kg weight, 1 leaf/child; 20+ leaves for adults.

Nerium Biotech’s patent on extraction of the active: http://www.patentstorm.us/applications/20100092585/description.html. It’s an extraction and “purification” process. I notice nothing here to render this ingredient less toxic than stated above.

The controversial component of nerium oleander is cardiac glucosides, which have an very narrow window of therapeutic use in heart complaints. Over and above this, it is extremely dangerous. Which explains the introduction to Nerium’s clinical trial: http://neriumskin.com/research/clinical.htm “Each study's primary end-point was to evaluate the Nerium test articles for safety/toxicity, a) Determine if the Nerium oleander CG metabolites were being absorbed through the skin, b) If so, how much, c) If there was any noticeable blood pressure or heart rate changes, and d) If there were changes in blood chemistry or organ system functions. In addition, subjects were observed for inflammation, rash, or tenderness possibly related to the cream application”

The clinical trial for Nerium http://neriumskin.com/research/nsc4finalreport07172011v5.pdf used a topical cream containing 11.7 micrograms/ml (11.7 ppm) of nerium oleander, and found “none” was absorbed systemically according to blood tests. But it seems the trial only lasted 30 days and used 35 subjects (34 completed). The non-absorbance via skin is probably a good thing from an overall health perspective, but would suggest to me that this active is staying in the upper layers of the skin (where it is effecting changes) at a rather high level.

In spite of Nerium’s clinical trial conclusions, extracts containing CGs can apparently be absorbed through the skin (via lesions), though e.g. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2700576/ resulting in effects on the heart, leading to hospitalization. (Warning!: that article is gross). The species of oleander referred to is a close relative to nerium with the identical “active” CGs. Seems logical (to me) to assume exactly the same principle could apply to NeriumAD: which would mean lip-licking, PCIT dermarolling, even raw post-peel skin etc could all potentially give someone more than they bargained for. Unless proven as safe under these circumstances.

Someone mentioned digitalis/foxglove, I think? Same active and makes this article worth a flick through too because usage implies sensitivity to additional CG: http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/154336-overview and thus increased vulnerability.

I have yet to see any safety information relating to the usage of Nerium AD for >30 days, or applied in a situation when skin barrier has been compromised in any form (e.g. by dermarolling or exfoliation or ingredient-based penetration enhancement). Or anyone with heart issues - more common than one might think, and often undiagnosed. Considering the potential implications of this active (which seen a little more significant than, say, OD-ing on vitamin C), it would be great if Nerium were to make more relevant safety information available on their website if it exists (or make it more obvious if I have simply overlooked it - in which I’d be grateful if someone could post a link!!)

I don't mean to worry anyone but the thought of NeriumAD + dermarolling makes me feel a little uncomfortable Embarassed

Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:15 pm

Whoops! Too late to edit...

The first 2 links in the post above added my full stops into the link by mistake Rolling Eyes

they should read:

http://www.inchem.org/documents/pims/plant/pim366.htm

http://www.patentstorm.us/applications/20100092585/description.html

And Nerium has now relocated their clinical trial report here:

http://www.neriumbiotech.com/Journals/nsc4finalreport07172011v5.pdf

HTH

free skin care · Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:10 am

This is from their promotional blurb and addresses the question of safety:

Quote:

Therapeutic efficacy

Historically, Nerium oleander has been reported in ancient texts and folklore for more than 1500 years. Used traditionally by herbalists as a folk remedy for a wide variety of maladies and conditions, including dermatitis, abscesses, eczema, psoriasis, sores, warts, corns, ringworm, scabies, herpes, skin cancer, asthma, dysmenorrheal, epilepsy, malaria, abortifacients, emetics, heart tonics, and tumors. It has been used extensively for medicinal purposes in Mediterranean and Central and Southern Asian countries, although these applications also have their basis in folk medicine and efficacy has not been documented by clinical research. Macerated leaves of oleander have been applied topically for treatment of dermatitis, loss of hair, superficial tumors and syphilis.[24] A decoction of oleander leaves has been used for the treatment of gingivitis and as a nose drop for children.

The “cardiac glycosides”, are known to increase cardiac contractility and have been traditionally used for treatment of congestive heart failure in China. In correct dosages, they are also used as anti-arrhythmic agents to control atrial fibrillation. Additionally, recent research has determined that small quantities of these glycosides are responsible for stimulating effects on the immune system in cancer patients.

Despite their potential for what could be serious side-effects, application of Nerium oleander cardiac glycosides applied intramuscularly (IM) and orally to combat cancers is now being investigated. The National Cancer Institute has defined oleandrin, one of the principal glycosides in Nerium oleander as “A lipid soluble cardiac glycoside with potential antineoplastic activity.”

After evaluating all safety and toxicity data, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration determined that a defined Nerium oleander extract is safe enough to be administered to humans by mouth, and a defined Nerium oleander extract is now being used to treat cancer patients under an FDA-approved Investigational New Drug application.[18] At this time the Nerium oleander extract has been administered to over 100 people by injection or mouth at total IM doses of from 0.5 mL to 2.25 mL and oral doses of 0.6 to 10.2 mg/day, for treatment of cancer, with no substantial negative side effects.

With regard to dermal application, three industry-sponsored human studies in which 1 to 2 mL of Nerium oleander extract containing the cardiac glycosides were applied topically on a twice daily basis to 85 subjects with different skin conditions, including sunburn, acne, cold sores and age spots, for up to 30 days.[21][22][23] Improvement in some of the conditions was noted, and safety was confirmed by the lack of adverse dermal reactions and by the lack of detectable glycosides in blood samples taken periodically during this 30-day period.
http://faceliftnosurgery.com/face-lift-without-surgery/nerium-oleander-4/1139/

Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:59 am

Keliu wrote:

This is from their promotional blurb and addresses the question of safety:

Quote:

Therapeutic efficacy

Historically, Nerium oleander has been reported in ancient texts and folklore for more than 1500 years. Used traditionally by herbalists as a folk remedy for a wide variety of maladies and conditions, including dermatitis, abscesses, eczema, psoriasis, sores, warts, corns, ringworm, scabies, herpes, skin cancer, asthma, dysmenorrheal, epilepsy, malaria, abortifacients, emetics, heart tonics, and tumors. It has been used extensively for medicinal purposes in Mediterranean and Central and Southern Asian countries, although these applications also have their basis in folk medicine and efficacy has not been documented by clinical research. Macerated leaves of oleander have been applied topically for treatment of dermatitis, loss of hair, superficial tumors and syphilis.[24] A decoction of oleander leaves has been used for the treatment of gingivitis and as a nose drop for children.

The “cardiac glycosides”, are known to increase cardiac contractility and have been traditionally used for treatment of congestive heart failure in China. In correct dosages, they are also used as anti-arrhythmic agents to control atrial fibrillation. Additionally, recent research has determined that small quantities of these glycosides are responsible for stimulating effects on the immune system in cancer patients.

Despite their potential for what could be serious side-effects, application of Nerium oleander cardiac glycosides applied intramuscularly (IM) and orally to combat cancers is now being investigated. The National Cancer Institute has defined oleandrin, one of the principal glycosides in Nerium oleander as “A lipid soluble cardiac glycoside with potential antineoplastic activity.”

After evaluating all safety and toxicity data, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration determined that a defined Nerium oleander extract is safe enough to be administered to humans by mouth, and a defined Nerium oleander extract is now being used to treat cancer patients under an FDA-approved Investigational New Drug application.[18] At this time the Nerium oleander extract has been administered to over 100 people by injection or mouth at total IM doses of from 0.5 mL to 2.25 mL and oral doses of 0.6 to 10.2 mg/day, for treatment of cancer, with no substantial negative side effects.

With regard to dermal application, three industry-sponsored human studies in which 1 to 2 mL of Nerium oleander extract containing the cardiac glycosides were applied topically on a twice daily basis to 85 subjects with different skin conditions, including sunburn, acne, cold sores and age spots, for up to 30 days.[21][22][23] Improvement in some of the conditions was noted, and safety was confirmed by the lack of adverse dermal reactions and by the lack of detectable glycosides in blood samples taken periodically during this 30-day period.
http://faceliftnosurgery.com/face-lift-without-surgery/nerium-oleander-4/1139/

Thank you very much. I've seen this before an accept all of it. References are not clickable on that link, which is as you state a promo blurb, but can be found on the Wikipedia page for Nerium Oleander from where I assume it was copied (with selective deletions regarding the "less attractive" aspects) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerium

Just to be clear, I believe without doubt that CGs are therapeautic at small amounts when formulated to address specific medical issues. They can be enormously beneficial. I also hope that the cancer trials continue to proceed successfully - that would be great.

The last paragraph of the article relates to dermal application which is my interest. The 85 patients referred to are, I assume (and based on the wikipedia references) the 35 (clinical trial) + 50-ish (patent tests), detailed in the links I posted above.

My point is simply that based on the depth of this research, I personally would not feel comfortable using NeriumAD on heavily punctured face after a PCIT dermaroll.

I am really looking forward to your review on this - very impressed by the before & after pics! (and also holding out for Medik8!)

free skin care · Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:41 pm

felixia wrote:

My point is simply that based on the depth of this research, I personally would not feel comfortable using NeriumAD on heavily punctured face after a PCIT dermaroll.

I am really looking forward to your review on this - very impressed by the before & after pics! (and also holding out for Medik8!)

I agree with your comments on dermarolling and Nerium - I will not be doing this.

In a month of complete madness I ordered Reluma, Medik8, Nerium and EL Perfectionist!!! The ELP is stored away. I've used the Medik8 after two medical rolls and I'm using it every second night on my chest after a cosmetic roll. I started using the Reluma but when the Nerium arrived I was more interested in trying that, so I've stopped the Reluma. I too am intrigued by the before and after photos from Nerium use - they look so "real". But as you can see from my signature line, I'm highly skeptical of all the claims about miracle anti-aging topicals.

I'll report back when I've used the Nerium a little longer.

free skin care · Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:49 pm

Keliu wrote:

felixia wrote:

My point is simply that based on the depth of this research, I personally would not feel comfortable using NeriumAD on heavily punctured face after a PCIT dermaroll.

I am really looking forward to your review on this - very impressed by the before & after pics! (and also holding out for Medik8!)

I agree with your comments on dermarolling and Nerium - I will not be doing this.

In a month of complete madness I ordered Reluma, Medik8, Nerium and EL Perfectionist!!! The ELP is stored away. I've used the Medik8 after two medical rolls and I'm using it every second night on my chest after a cosmetic roll. I started using the Reluma but when the Nerium arrived I was more interested in trying that, so I've stopped the Reluma. I too am intrigued by the before and after photos from Nerium use - they look so "real". But as you can see from my signature line, I'm highly skeptical of all the claims about miracle anti-aging topicals.

I'll report back when I've used the Nerium a little longer.

Is this still "tightening" when you apply it? I sometimes find this goes away.

free skin care · Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:57 pm

Tiny wrote:

Is this still "tightening" when you apply it? I sometimes find this goes away.

It makes my skin feel extremely tight and dry. I'm applying RoseHip Oil afterwards, but the feeling of tightness remains to some extent. BTW, it only get applied at night.

free skin care · Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:01 pm

Keliu wrote:

Tiny wrote:

Is this still "tightening" when you apply it? I sometimes find this goes away.

It makes my skin feel extremely tight and dry. I'm applying RoseHip Oil afterwards, but the feeling of tightness remains to some extent. BTW, it only get applied at night.

Thanks! does it look tighter? and ok I'll bite, why only at night?

free skin care · Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:15 pm

Tiny wrote:

Thanks! does it look tighter? and ok I'll bite, why only at night?

Actually, I'm thinking that my neck does look a little tighter - my neck skin is very loose and crepey. But I've also just bought a new microcurrent machine, so that may be having an effect.

Nerium is a "night cream" and the instructions say to only apply it at night.

free skin care · Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:36 pm

Keliu wrote:

Tiny wrote:

Thanks! does it look tighter? and ok I'll bite, why only at night?

Actually, I'm thinking that my neck does look a little tighter - my neck skin is very loose and crepey. But I've also just bought a new microcurrent machine, so that may be having an effect.

Nerium is a "night cream" and the instructions say to only apply it at night.

thanks, shounds promising in a few days! Wonder why only at night?

free skin care · Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:41 pm

Tiny wrote:

Wonder why only at night?

Don't know - but there are plenty of other night only topicals on the market. Estee Lauder Night Repair for example.

free skin care · Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:47 pm

Keliu wrote:

Tiny wrote:

Wonder why only at night?

Don't know - but there are plenty of other night only topicals on the market. Estee Lauder Night Repair for example.

They say 10pm to 2 am is the best healing time for our skin and perhaps it needs to be in the rest phase, for the best results.

free skin care · Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:53 pm

Tiny wrote:

They say 10pm to 2 am is the best healing time for our skin and perhaps it needs to be in the rest phase, for the best results.

Too bad if you don't hit the sack until after 2 am!!

When I brought up the topic of the skin regenerating at night - DrJ said that this was nonsense, that skin cells are continually regenerating. However, there are plenty of skin formulations still targeted for use when the body is resting.

free skin care · Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:01 pm

I started using Nerium over three weeks ago. I really like it and have noticed that a brown spot on my cheek is fading. I also have noticed the under eye area smoothing out nicely.

free skin care · Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:02 pm

Keliu wrote:

Tiny wrote:

They say 10pm to 2 am is the best healing time for our skin and perhaps it needs to be in the rest phase, for the best results.

Too bad if you don't hit the sack until after 2 am!!

When I brought up the topic of the skin regenerating at night - DrJ said that this was nonsense, that skin cells are continually regenerating. However, there are plenty of skin formulations still targeted for use when the body is resting.

I think theres some truth to continually regenerating, but I also think there is something to the "healing" time of skin, body, mind. I do not think its bunk.

free skin care · Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:03 pm

Toby wrote:

I started using Nerium over three weeks ago. I really like it and have noticed that a brown spot on my cheek is fading. I also have noticed the under eye area smoothing out nicely.

Do you notice "firming"? and not bad results for 3 weeks

free skin care · Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:09 pm

I noticed major firming with microcurrent, can't say for sure if I have noticed anything further in the firming department with the Nerium. I have been doing major microcurrent treatments for six months and that has been very effective.

free skin care · Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:18 pm

Toby wrote:

I noticed major firming with microcurrent can't say for sure if I have noticed anything further in the firming department with the Nerium. I have been doing major microcurrent treatments for six months and that has been very effective.

Did I read that thread right, you've been having them done? Or shown which are right for you on the microcurrent? Sorry a bit off topic, but back on topic, could it be both? I guess did more kick in when you added this 3 weeks ago?

free skin care · Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:27 pm

Tiny wrote:

Toby wrote:

I noticed major firming with microcurrent can't say for sure if I have noticed anything further in the firming department with the Nerium. I have been doing major microcurrent treatments for six months and that has been very effective.

Did I read that thread right, you've been having them done? Or shown which are right for you on the microcurrent? Sorry a bit off topic, but back on top, could it be both? I guess did more kick in when you added this 3 weeks ago?

I had a package of ten treatments done at a salon and then bought the machine to do my own treatments...I have had a lesson with Christine Byer to tailor it. As far as the Nerium I do see a smoothing of the skin, lightening of the brown spot, and there has been additional firming under the eyes.

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