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Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:59 am  |
OMG sunscreen. Gone are the days where you trusted a brand or bought something because you liked it's smell or texture now I need a chemistry degree and have to consult EDS before I buy. I miss the good ole days when Bergasol contained bergamot which added to its lovely fragrance and only later discoved why it was so good at producing a tan! Those who're not aware that bergamot is a photosensitising oil or at least the bergapten in it is - you can buy it without.
Reading past threads are there any hard and fast rules that we can agree on? what to look for & what to avoid. Chemical over physical screens? Something with both?  |
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Using. ADCE day & night |
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Fri Jun 09, 2006 3:42 am |
Hi Eve
Do you have a specific question or are you just wide open in a quandry now?
Funny thing is I'm quite the opposite. Now I see it's much more complicated than I ever realised (especially the whole process of tanning) I'm becoming more and more satisfied. The explanations before were simplified so much that they made no sense in the end.
But I am with you.....decisions, decisions and so many of the damn things to choose from.
I don't think you'll ever get a consensus if that's what you're looking for.
Anyway, back to my chemistry degree....
M  |
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Fri Jun 09, 2006 3:47 am |
If you want a quick rundown about sunscreen and sunblock you can go over to http://shadefoundation.org/ click on the Prevention tab at the top left side of the screen and then click on sunscreen.
I hope that this helps! |
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Fri Jun 09, 2006 4:01 am |
Hi Bosoxy
Thanks for the link.
No offence, but like most of them for educating the general public it's really simplistic in it's explanations of UV and I don't necessarily agree with their recommendations for sunscreen. It's more based on the fact they're in the US than on what's available.
I know Eve's been here some time and so have I. The longer you're here the more you know the more difficult the choices become. I think this is what Eve's getting at. None of us long-term EDSers are ignorant of the basics. They've been hard to avoid.
M |
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Fri Jun 09, 2006 4:32 am |
No offense taken...
I know that it is basic US info, but I wasn't sure what she was looking for... and figured if it did not help her it may help someone else.
The choices certainly are not easy...
I wish I could wave a wand and be able to say which one would be perfect for each of us, but that just isn't going to happen here... maybe not in OZ either. 
Good luck and take care. |
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 *****My 5 Star Rave***** Just loving everything about ICE ELEMENTS!!! You HAVE to try the 2 minute miracle exfoliating gel... It is to die for! |
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Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:13 am |
Hi Molly & Bosoxy,
When it's kept to titanium & zinc oxide = good. That's fine it's when it starts to get broken down to well there's a newer finer type of zinc, then tinabsorb
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexoryl
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Health/story?id=858453&page=1
http://www.loreal.com/_en/_ww/research/innovations/mexoryl.aspx
http://www.pizbuin.com/summer/english/files/Radiant-face%20Final%20English.doc
and MUA has some great stuff but if I make quote from their sunscreen FAQ
if you haven’t joined I’d recommend
http://makeupalley.com/user/notepad/sunscreenFAQ/#uva
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The UVA filters Tinosorb M (Methylene-bis-benzotriazolyl tetramethylbutylphenol/MBBT), Mexoryl SX (terephthalylidene dicamphor sulfonic acid), Mexoryl XL (Drometrizole trisiloxane), BEMT, Uvinul A Plus (Diethylamino Hydroxybenzoyl Hexyl Benzoate), and Neo Heliopan AP (Disodium Phenyl Dibenzimidazole Tetrasulfonate) are all photostable.”
Ok I can cope with that.
next up
The PPD rating is the simplest way to determine how UVA-protective a sunscreen is, though most sunscreens do not list the PPD on the label, so we can try guesstimating. First, please note that it is difficult to accurately gauge the PPD of a sunscreen with physical filters without knowing the particle size. Also, TiO2 does not provide as good protection against long-wave UVA-I rays as ZnO9 10 but is more efficient. Hence, TiO2 may give higher PPDs than ZnO without providing greater UVA-I protection because UVA-II is higher energy and so has a higher potential to cause pigment darkening. [The same applies to benzophenone-3/oxybenzone, a UVA-II filter.] Consequently, PPD values can be somewhat skewed in favor of efficient filters with low critical wavelengths. ZnO is not very efficient, so it is difficult to obtain a high PPD with ZnO alone.7 Finally, the overall formulation (inactive ingredients) can affect the PPD. As an example, Clinique Active White Lab Solutions Super City Block SPF 30 has a UVA protection rating of PA++, i.e. PPD between 4 and 8, and its filter percentages are zinc oxide 11.60%, titanium dioxide 7.30%. However, Fancl Sunguard SPF 30 PA+++ (PPD >  has 11% ZnO and 5% TiO2. If you would like to guesstimate the PPD for a formulation, please see the sunscreendata notepad. Also please note that PPD does not correlate well with long-wave UVA protection, so it is not the last word in UVA protection. More info in the next question.
Make up and sunscreen
“There is some evidence that uncoated TiO2 and ZnO can degrade avobenzone13 14 so it is best not to layer makeup with uncoated physical filters or OMC with an avobenzone-containing sunscreen. The only way to be assured your make-up uses coated filters is to ask the manufacturer. Two popular grades of coated TiO2 and ZnO are made by BASF and coated with Trimethoxycaprylylsilane and Triethoxycaprylylsilane respectively, so if you see the latter two names in the ingredient list, it is likely the filters are coated. In my opinion, applying oil-absorbing substances such as starches, silica, talc, etc. over sunscreen could possibly have an adverse effect on protection, so I would recommend applying coated ZnO (such as Z-Cote HP1) as a mattifier”
“Are sunscreens toxic?
There is no evidence that currently used sunscreens are toxic, though safety concerns have been expressed about some UV filters. For example, Padimate O/Octyl Dimethyl PABA has been shown to be photomutagenic.19 Padimate O is infrequently used;”
I have an Aubrey Organics gingko moisturiser that contains PABA………
It's all very well and that we have the variety but there is so much to consider, if it contains the oxides we have to check that it doesn't contain oxeybenzone as it makes it unstable. It's an undending check list!
I liked my Avene last year but I looked like ghost
I do like the list of recommended sunscreens on MUA but it's certainly not complete.
Why would we choose Tinsorb over Mexoryl? I still haven't worked that out  |
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Using. ADCE day & night |
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Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:33 am |
| Very interesting article Eve, I've never read anything about this before. So, the information it seems, continues to grow, and although it confuses me more than ever, I will be considering more products with Avobenzone. Thanks for the eye-opener! |
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51 years old/brunette/normal- oily medium skin. |
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Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:20 am |
I'm afraid this is really old news - 1998's so I wouldn't rely on it's technical advice.
But I can't understand why this article would confuse or worry you Eve. It's such old news and the world's moved on. Sunscreens used to just have UVB, which allowed people to stay longer in the sun and damage their skin, but almost all sunscreens are broad spectrum these days, it's just to what degree that's the problem.
And even broad spectrum won't stop melanoma, but then cancer is hereditary as well as environmental. I don't think this will come as a surprise.
The kind of people who take care of their skin all know that sunscreen is only an extra precaution and don't expect to sit basting in the sun all day like we used to. Though I guess there are others out there who don't get this and are still have a false sense of security from their sunscreen.
Who said Tinsorb was better than Mexoryl and where?  M |
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Fri Jun 09, 2006 11:48 am |
Here's my simplistic layman's understanding on Tinosorb vs Mexoryl. Tinosorb is a better chemical filter than anything the US makes. Tinosorb is put in s/s in Canada (and perhaps other countries, Idonno). Mexoryl is better than Tinosorb and is in European and some Asian s/s. It might now even be in some Canadian s/s (Idonno).
My information is old and my be out-of-date, but not as old as the Mother Jones article. |
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Sat Jun 10, 2006 7:28 pm |
I think that the important thing is to make sure that we use something on our uncovered skin when we are outside for more than a few minutes, however whenever possible to keep our skin covered with a tightly woven material (one that the light does not shine through when held up).
Things may seem confusing as the information that we know changes and morphs and add to that new stuff coming out that we hope is better but may turn out not to be 5 or 10 years down the road... 
Oh yeah, I really helped a lot, didn't I? |
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*****My 5 Star Rave***** Just loving everything about ICE ELEMENTS!!! You HAVE to try the 2 minute miracle exfoliating gel... It is to die for! |
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Sat Jun 10, 2006 8:59 pm |
| donnababe wrote: |
Here's my simplistic layman's understanding on Tinosorb vs Mexoryl. Tinosorb is a better chemical filter than anything the US makes. Tinosorb is put in s/s in Canada (and perhaps other countries, Idonno). Mexoryl is better than Tinosorb and is in European and some Asian s/s. It might now even be in some Canadian s/s (Idonno).
My information is old and my be out-of-date, but not as old as the Mother Jones article. |
We don't have Tinsorbs in Canada, we do have Mexoryl SX, which is a previous version of Mexoryl now used in Europe, Mexoryl LX. So, European sunscreens are better than Canadian but ours are still better than US sunsreens, which have no Mexoryl at all. |
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Mon Jun 12, 2006 2:02 am |
| Hi Molly, it wasn't that the mother jones article had confused me, I too have heard similar things elsewhere, I just thought I'd throw the idea in to the mix. |
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Using. ADCE day & night |
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