DermaRoller
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free skin care · Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:49 am

Mishey wrote:

Thought I'd share this. I rolled my spider veins with the 1mm roller daily for a week and a half. Didn't want to do anymore incase it messed up the collagen on my legs. It was very red looking on the patches I rolled for another 2 weeks. Anyway the redness has settled down now, but unfortunately the veins look the same as before. Sad

Anyone else tried rolling their leg veins? Any success stories? And if so how long did you roll, in terms of days?

WOndering about adding a Vitamin K type product post roll in this situation might help?? Supposed to be good with Veins? I was thinking of trying it under my eyes?????

rebecca

Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:16 am

Mishey wrote:

Thought I'd share this. I rolled my spider veins with the 1mm roller daily for a week and a half. Didn't want to do anymore incase it messed up the collagen on my legs. It was very red looking on the patches I rolled for another 2 weeks. Anyway the redness has settled down now, but unfortunately the veins look the same as before. Sad

Anyone else tried rolling their leg veins? Any success stories? And if so how long did you roll, in terms of days?

*****************************************
I'm giving it a try. So far, (it hasn't completely healed) I think there MAY be some slight improvement, but I'm not sure yet. They are not gone for sure, but I think it will only work if the needles are puncturing the veins multiple times. The ones closest to the skin surface are the ones that are likely to benefit. Also, if you have "feeder veins" (a deeper vein that is supplying the more visible spider vein) it probably won't work unless you can reach the feeder vein and puncture that mulitple times.
I've had sclerotherapy on my veins, but it is a slow, painful inconvenient and expensive process. I am hoping to roll some of the veins that remain, the ones closest to the skin's surface and see if there is any improvement so that if I decide to go for another round of sclerotherapy, MAYBE I won't need as much and/or some of the spider veins will have been weakened and will collapse with fewer treatments? We'll see. A girl can dream...

free skin care · Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:35 am

ljk wrote:

Last night I did 1.5mm for the second time, and I couldn't *stand* it. I did horizontally/vertically, then stopped because my skin was stinging like crazy. The first time I was using a "cheaper" 1.5mm. This was my first try with the Dr Roller.

Don't know if I'm imagining it but I feel the Dr Roller is *sharper*. Though maybe I'm just a big baby!

Earlier I ordered some Lidocaine gel from alldaychemist, kindly mentioned in another thread. Why doesn't the UK sell any numbing cream! Confused

I mentioned earlier in this thread that I used my Dr Roller 1.5mm for the first time a few weeks ago, and it *hurt*! I only managed to do two directions with the Dr Roller and gave up, feeling ouchie.

Before the new 1.5mm arrived I'd used the 1.5mm twice with no problems (the same as the dermaroller.us one).

Whilst waiting for the Lidocaine via airmail I played with my Anti-Aging Lightstim for a week (which I'm liking).

All I can say is, ouch. Lidocaine definitely helped and I got a more intense roll with the Dr Roller this time. As the numbing cream wore off I could feel it stinging while I tried to get some shuteye!

I ended up using Lanacane to help get rid of the initial slight itch/aching (it's a different formula in the UK, though it has 3% Benzocaine). Maybe I need to toughen up a bit, but I got on fine with the dermarollers.us one.

It won't put me off though! I will persevere! The results you're posting are keeping me going! Smile

free skin care · Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:50 am

ljk wrote:

Last night I did 1.5mm for the second time, and I couldn't *stand* it. I did horizontally/vertically, then stopped because my skin was stinging like crazy. The first time I was using a "cheaper" 1.5mm. This was my first try with the Dr Roller.

Don't know if I'm imagining it but I feel the Dr Roller is *sharper*. Though maybe I'm just a big baby!

I mentioned earlier in this thread that I used my Dr Roller 1.5mm for the first time a few weeks ago, and it *hurt*! I only managed to do two directions with the Dr Roller and gave up, feeling ouchie.

Before the new 1.5mm arrived I'd used the 1.5mm twice with no problems (the same as the dermaroller.us one).

I ended up using Lanacane to help get rid of the initial slight itch/aching (it's a different formula in the UK, though it has 3% Benzocaine). Maybe I need to toughen up a bit, but I got on fine with the dermarollers.us one.

I really believe that the difference between the 2 brands of rollers is that cross-linked needle pattern on the Dr. Roller that creates more surface tension, therefore creating deeper penetration.

free skin care · Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:58 am

My face today says "I agree", haha. No pain, no gain! I'm just feeling sorry for myself! Confused

Temporary discomfort is worth it to make my skin look better.

free skin care · Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:05 am

ljk wrote:

My face today says "I agree", haha. No pain, no gain! I'm just feeling sorry for myself! Confused

Temporary discomfort is worth it to make my skin look better.

If you have read any of my previous posts, you know I am completely with you on the pain! I have finally resorted to 10% Lidicaine and wine on an empty stomach just to effectively use my 1.0mm. Laughing

free skin care · Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:29 am

http://creamycomplexion.blogspot.com/

My photos make me question what I've been doing.

free skin care · Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:43 am

Your pictures are a little disconcerting, chinachatters. May I ask what skin care you have been using, as well as how often have you used the dermaroller?

free skin care · Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:06 am

rileygirl wrote:

Your pictures are a little disconcerting, chinachatters. May I ask what skin care you have been using, as well as how often have you used the dermaroller?

And what length needles?

Oh, and "tools" like LED and how often/length of time?

free skin care · Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:00 am

chinachatters wrote:

http://creamycomplexion.blogspot.com/
My photos make me question what I've been doing.

I agree with the questions the others have posted. Most LED manufacturers recommend down time. Same with the dermarollers. So to give you more useful feedback, we would need more info about what you have been doing: i.e., length of roller/s, frequency of use, what LED and frequency of use, what topicals, etc.

You may be doing too much too soon.

free skin care · Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:44 pm

I'm very conservative.

Dermaroller 1.0 and very lightly because it hurts - once a week, if that.

I roll in L-ascorbic/water serum and put on Retin-A Micro after the rolling.

LightStim - every day, 2 minutes per spot for over a year. Changed to once every couple of days, 4 min./spot recently.

I've been using the LightStim for over a year. Noticed new freckling after using it for a couple of months - BUT, I was also using ascorbic/water on my face in the morning. That makes skin sensitive to sunlight - which, I presume means UV rays. I can't find out if there are UV rays associated with LightStim.

My conclusion now is that all this stuff isn't for me.

What really horrifies me is that I can't see that spottiness in my mirror. It was a real shock to see what the camera (and presumably other people) see. Obviously, I would like to scrape off the entire outer layer of my face and start over!

Edited to add: start over with my previous face and not wreck it. 8-(

free skin care · Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:06 pm

chinachatters wrote:

I'm very conservative.

Dermaroller 1.0 and very lightly because it hurts - once a week, if that. I roll in L-ascorbic/water serum and put on Retin-A Micro after the rolling.

LightStim - every day, 2 minutes per spot for over a year. Changed to once every couple of days, 4 min./spot recently.

I've been using the LightStim for over a year. Noticed new freckling after using it for a couple of months - BUT, I was also using ascorbic/water on my face in the morning. That makes skin sensitive to sunlight - which, I presume means UV rays. I can't find out if there are UV rays associated with LightStim.

My conclusion now is that all this stuff isn't for me.

What really horrifies me is that I can't see that spottiness in my mirror. It was a real shock to see what the camera (and presumably other people) see. Obviously, I would like to scrape off the entire outer layer of my face and start over!

Edited to add: start over with my previous face and not wreck it. 8-(

That is not "conservative" in my opinion.

I do not roll in Vit C (which is an acid). That's like throwing acid on a wound. And I don't put on retin-A after I roll! Does your skin peel from this?

Also, you are rolling too frequently. Have you seen this chart?

Quote:

The chart lists minimum time between treatments and recommended time between treatments:

.25 1 day minimum; 2-3 days recommended
.5mm 3 days minimum, 5-7 days recommended
1.0 1 week minimum, 2-4 weeks recommended
1.5 2 weeks minumum, 4-6 weeks recommended
2.0 3 weeks min, 4-6 weeks rec
2.5 4 weeks min, 4-6 weeks rec

As the chart states, it should be 1 week minimum in between 1mm rolls but 2-4 weeks is recommended.

LED's should not be used every day unless they are weak (like DPL). Handheld, I think they all should be used a few times a week at most. You are supposed to give the skin a break period in between usage! Also, 2 minutes an area is enough - why did you bump up to 4 minutes an area?

Are you wearing sun screen? You mention your skin is sensitive to sunlight. Well, it's gonna be even more so after rolling (especially since you are using two exfoliants - vit. C and Vit. A during).

MORE is not equal to BETTER!

free skin care · Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:29 pm

chinachatters wrote:

Dermaroller 1.0 and very lightly because it hurts - once a week, if that.

How long have you been rolling weekly? I haven't seen either of the inventing doctors recommend rolling with needle lengths longer than .15mm on regular basis. The most frequent I have seen from them is a 6 treatment protocol, with an annual touch up.

And you rolled in any other products other that Vit C and Retin-A?

Here is an article on rolling that everyone should read:

Environ® Medical Roll-CIT™ Micro-needling
Revolutionary New Approach to Medical Needling
Probably my FAVORITE rolling article - it contains frequency recommendations, as well as pre- and post-roll protocols for optimal collagen development. Also comparisons of rolling with 1mm vs. 3mm needles.
http://www.dermaconcepts.com/2004/environ1mmNeedling1.pdf

I also second Luna's advice to not use the LED as frequently....skin really needs time to recover between LED treatments if the light is at all strong.

At the end of the day, overdoing skin stuff actually creates more problems. I know it's hard to be patient, but I think you may be seeing some side effects of being too aggressive.

free skin care · Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:44 pm

chinachatters wrote:

What really horrifies me is that I can't see that spottiness in my mirror. It was a real shock to see what the camera (and presumably other people) see. Obviously, I would like to scrape off the entire outer layer of my face and start over!

Edited to add: start over with my previous face and not wreck it. 8-(

If you can't see the discolouration in a mirror - what are you worrying about? Photos can lie - the lighting and printing of the pics can play a part.

If you CAN see discolouration spots that you didn't have before - it could be sun damage that's coming to the surface from using the Retin-A and Dermaroller. My advice is not to stress - sometimes things get worse before they get better.

free skin care · Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:52 pm

[quote="lunarmmI do not roll in Vit C (which is an acid). That's like throwing acid on a wound. And I don't put on retin-A after I roll! Does your skin peel from this?[/quote]

Just want to clarify. I'm not saying not to use Vit. C and retin-A. What I am saying is I don't apply Vit. C and roll it into my skin with a long roller and then apply retin-A right after such a roll.

Follow the instructions in the article Bethany posted. Use Vit. C and retin-A as you would normally but I wouldn't do either right before or after rolling with a dermaroller .75mm or longer.

On the other hand, the rollers that are .5mm and shorter can be used to enhance product penetration. But do know that because of increased penetration, the effect of the topical/s may be greatly enhanced (including increased peeling from retin-A, etc.).

free skin care · Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:25 pm

lunarmm wrote:

Just want to clarify. I'm not saying not to use Vit. C and retin-A. What I am saying is I don't apply Vit. C and roll it into my skin with a long roller and then apply retin-A right after such a roll.

Follow the instructions in the article Bethany posted. Use Vit. C and retin-A as you would normally but I wouldn't do either right before or after rolling with a dermaroller .75mm or longer.

On the other hand, the rollers that are .5mm and shorter can be used to enhance product penetration. But do know that because of increased penetration, the effect of the topical/s may be greatly enhanced (including increased peeling from retin-A, etc.).

After I had one of those "enhanced reactions," I no longer apply anything by CPs right after the roll, and then apply actives the next morning. But my skin tends to be a bit more sensitive than most. I do apply C and A for several days after a roll, however (though not necessarily Retin A).

free skin care · Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:34 am

Hey gals!

I was just curious..I have rolled a few times with the .5 dermaroller and am noticing that my skin is looking pretty bad recently..like more uneveness and hyperpigmentation.
Could this be that the skin has to get worse, before it gets better?

Thanks,

free skin care · Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:53 am

mandapanda wrote:

Hey gals!

I was just curious..I have rolled a few times with the .5 dermaroller and am noticing that my skin is looking pretty bad recently..like more uneveness and hyperpigmentation.
Could this be that the skin has to get worse, before it gets better?

Thanks,

Sometimes it does. A couple of questions for you:

How often are you rolling?

What products are you using immediately after a roll? (including the couple of days after a roll)

free skin care · Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:14 am

I use the longer needles fairly often and then take several week breaks. I have only one gotten red spots but I think it was because of a combination of too often and not cleaning the roller well enough. I used to just run it under tap water. I now alchol treat and boil it.

free skin care · Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:16 am

PS I never use anything acidic or irritating right before or after a roll. I do use peptide solutions in aloe or marine gel, and a Cellbone collagen serum.

free skin care · Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:20 am

I see I've been overdoing.

I lost the directions for the LightStim and didn't get any with the Dermarollers. (I have a small Leaf & Rusher model, too.)

I really didn't believe the devices would do anything but make my face swell temporarily so wrinkles and creases puff up and disappear for a while.

As far as I know, I haven't peeled at all - unless those red spots are scars from spot peeling. (That's probably what they are.) If I'd gotten red, scaly and sore, or had sheets of skin peeling off, I would have stopped.

Yes, I wear sunscreen. Without that, I presume all those red spots would be brown.

It's going to be a long time before I try anything else.

Thanks for the articles and comments.

free skin care · Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:17 am

chinachatters wrote:

I see I've been overdoing.

I lost the directions for the LightStim and didn't get any with the Dermarollers. (I have a small Leaf & Rusher model, too.)

I really didn't believe the devices would do anything but make my face swell temporarily so wrinkles and creases puff up and disappear for a while.

Both of them can help regenerate cells and collagen, so you do have to proceed with caution.

I would suggest stopping the longer dermaroller for several months, and just using your .15mm a couple of times a week for product penetration.

I would also suggest that you scale the AALS back to 2 or 3 times a week.

Have you considered looking at the 302 Line, which is non-acid and a "less is more" approach? It has made a big difference for me. Here is the thread:

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=28855

free skin care · Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:41 am

I have been rolling about 1x a week with the .5 for now...
the 1.0 has really started to thicken up my thin hand skin, which is great!
But hyperpigmentation on face seems to be getting worse.

I am not doing anything really, after the roll..except maybe vitamin a/d ointment later on if it's really raw..
I have recently stopped retin a and skinceuticals c/e plus ferulic..
Am starting 302 products very soon!

Thanks for any help!

amanda Smile

free skin care · Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:08 pm

mandapanda wrote:

I have been rolling about 1x a week with the .5 for now...
the 1.0 has really started to thicken up my thin hand skin, which is great!
But hyperpigmentation on face seems to be getting worse.

I am not doing anything really, after the roll..except maybe vitamin a/d ointment later on if it's really raw..
I have recently stopped retin a and skinceuticals c/e plus ferulic..
Am starting 302 products very soon!

Thanks for any help!

amanda Smile

Amanda,

I noticed that I also have some pigmentation surfacing after an intense roll...hopefully the Retin-A will help it depart sooner rather than later.

Since you model, you might be better off using a .15mm a couple times a week for product penetration, and the longer needles just for the recommended series of 6 weekly rolls (actually weekly to once a month until you hit 6, then take a break).

I would assume that overdoing thing would NOT be good for your career. Sad

free skin care · Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:12 pm

Thanks so much Bethany..
I will order the shorter needle one.
What model and place do you recommend getting it from?

Yeah,wouldn't be good if I went to shoot with skin all crazy! Shock

xoxox,
a

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