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Sat Dec 01, 2007 8:59 am  |
I've been doing some research on Dr. Pickart's copper peptides, and I have to say that I am duly confused. The Skinbio website is not the easiest to read. I'm kind of getting frustrated with it. 
Can the copper peptide experts please clarify a few things for me?
The order of strength. This is what I understand, from weakest to strongest:
CP serum
Super CP serum
Super Cop cream
Super Cop2x cream
Assuming this is right, where does the Protect & Restore cream come in? Are those products above not meant to be used all over the face and only for spot treatments, and the P&R is only meant for all over the face? How strong is the P&R relative to those above?
TIA! |
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havana8
Moderator
 
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 3449
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Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:33 am |
The Canadian Skinbiology site has less info but is much easier to navigate. The products are listed there from Very Mild to Very Strong as follows:
Very Mild:
• CP Night Eyes Premier
Mild:
• CP Night Eyes
• Body Lotion
• Day Cover
• Super GHK Serum and Cream
Moderate, good on oily skin:
• CP Serum
• Protect & Restore #2 – Classic
Moderate, good on dry skin:
• Protect & Restore #3 – with Retinol
Strong, good on drier skin:
• Trireduction with Retinol
Strong, good on sensitive skin:
• P&R for Breasts, Nipples, and Décolletage; also works well on the neck area
Strong, good on very sensitive or irritated skin:
• BioHeal, contains camphor and menthol as soothing agents
Strong, good on acne prone skin:
• Super CP Serum
Very strong:
• Super Cop Cream
• Super Cop Cream 2X-Extra Strength
A biological healing oil, such as Emu or Squalane, applied after a SRCP product helps push more of the SRCP product into the skin. A biological healing oil applied before a SRCP product reduces the effect of the SRCP product to be milder.
http://www.skinbiology.ca/main.php?p=537 |
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Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:41 pm |
| havana8 wrote: |
The Canadian Skinbiology site has less info but is much easier to navigate. The products are listed there from Very Mild to Very Strong as follows:
Very Mild:
• CP Night Eyes Premier
Mild:
• CP Night Eyes
• Body Lotion
• Day Cover
• Super GHK Serum and Cream
http://www.skinbiology.ca/main.php?p=537 |
The Super-GHK Copper Serum and Cream are the mildest CP products and should be listed before Night Eyes Premier and not after it or in the 'Mild' category. For the correct order of products from mildest to strongest please refer to the link below.
www.skinbio.com/usingsrcps.html
The Canadian Skinbio site requires some updating. |
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Fair with mild rosascea & combination skin (dry with oily t-zone) |
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Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:05 am |
Ch3r - hope you don’t mind me putting another CP question in here? 
I just received my first order of MaMa lotion, which I rather like, and I’m wanting to incorporate this into my routine. I’m currently using C serum in the morning and CP serum at night. Where would I fit in the MaMa lotion? Or should I do the alternate days thing and, if so, how? Any suggestions greatly appreciated. |
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Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:11 am |
Hi Appletini - The best time to use a strong AHA product, such as MaMa Lotion, is at night. The reason for this is so that you minimize sun exposure while the AHA is exfoliating your skin. Your skin does become more sensitive to the sun once you begin to regularly use AHA's, and you don't want to re-damage your newly exfoliated skin by exposing it to the sun during a period when it's most vulnerable (ie., shortly after you've applied MaMa lotion).
How often do you intend to use MaMa lotion? If you're using it a few times a week, then I would either alternate it with the CP Serum or incorporate a 30-45 minute waiting period between the MaMa Lotion and CP Serum, should you want to use both on the same night. From what I understand, MaMa lotion takes a good 15 minutes to fully absorb into the skin. If this is the case, I would add another 30 minutes of a waiting period before I applied a CP Serum or ANYTHING else to your skin. The MaMa lotion will do two things during this wait period; it will self-neutralize after so many minutes on your skin which means the AHA becomes inactive, and it will allow your skin's pH levels to rise back up to a neutral level of 5.5. The MaMa Lotion has a pH level of 2.5 which means it is quite acidic. Combine this with the 20% AHA in the lotion and you've got yourself an above-average skin exfoliator. As soon as you apply the MaMa lotion to your cleansed face, the lotion immediately lowers the pH levels of your skin to the products pH level of 2.5 so that it can start the exfoliating process. Should you apply anything else on top of your skin too soon, you will immediately halt the exfoliating process of the MaMa lotion. So instead of receiving 100% of what the product can do, you may only receive 20%-30% instead. This is why an uninterrupted waiting period can be so beneficial whenever you're using AHA/BHA's. It allows you to gain the most out of the AHA and also raise your skin's pH levels back to a neutral level which in turn prepares it for the next product you want to apply.
**Note** You should be using a cleanser with a pH level of 5.5 before you use your MaMa Lotion, Vit-C Serum and/or CP Serum. Cleansers are the absolute worst for distorting the pH levels of your skin, and this will affect the properties of any product you use afterwards. So be careful with your cleansers and check them out thoroughly.
This brings me to the CP Serum - it has a pH level near 5.8 (approximately) which means it is ideally used when your skin has a neutral pH level between 5.5-6.0. Should your skin's pH levels be much highter or lower than this range, you run the risk of not gaining the most out the CP Serum as it thrives around pH levels that are similar to its own. I know this is a bit complicated, but I hope this makes some sense because it will help you understand why the waiting periods are useful between certain products.
So even if you were not using a CP Serum after the MaMa lotion, you would still wait a good 30-45 minutes before you applied something else to your skin, such as an active or moisturizer. This will ensure that the pH levels of your skin have risen sufficiently to be compatable with whatever you intend to use next. Other than waiting for your skin to rebalance between product applications, the only other thing that I know of that can immediately balance your skin's pH levels (especially after you've used a cleanser that has a very low or very high pH) is Pure Rosewater or an alcohol-free toner that is formulated to rebalance the skin.
I have dry skin so Pure Rosewater used as a toner to balance my skin's pH level is ideal for my skintype. Here are a few links to some Pure Rosewater products in case you are interested. Just to be clear, I would apply the Rosewater with a cotton ball immediately after I've used a cleanser, but not before 20 minutes have passed should I use a AHA/BHA. The AHA/BHA's need this time to exfoliate your skin, otherwise you neutralize them prematurely by applying the Rosewater to soon. HTH's a bit and that you have a clearer idea of how to incorporate your Mama lotion into your routine.
www.royalessence.com/product_info.php?cPath=0_22_39&products_id=74&osCsid=6b911122ab8cc8985338fd5d2756a24b (Check out the 3 for 1 special at Royal Essence - it's a great deal!).
www.rosense.us/default.aspx?pid=26466&nid=12645
www.aggarwaloverseas.com/HerbalDetail.aspx?ProductID=262
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Skin Toners
Skin toners are the next step after a facial cleansing routine. Skin toners are used after cleansing to ensure complete removal from the skin of all cleansing preparations, and are also used after a facemask to remove all traces of the mask. Skin toners can also be used as interim cleansers as well, as they can remove grime and oils. They freshen and tone up the skin and prepare a clean surface for the application of make-up. They also restore the acid or alkali balance of the skin, because they are pH balanced. Let me explain this further to understand why a Skin Toner has an important job to do when it comes to skincare.
Why should you use a toner?
The first and the most important job of a toner is to restore the skin’s natural pH balance. The skin has a pH balance of 5.5, while water can have a pH balance as high as 9.5 depending on where you live and on how hard the water is. After washing your skin, your skin’s pH balance is completely distorted and your skin starts working overtime to restore pH levels; a process which may take up to half an hour. On the other hand, if you use toner, pH levels are restored in an instant. Your skin is now ready for the moisturizer
How to choose a Toner?
Alcohol and water are the main ingredients of a Skin Toner. Other additives for skincare include: Glycerine, witch hazel, menthol, camphor, boric acid, rose water and alum .The formulation of one skin toner differs from the other in terms of the alcohol content and specific additives. As alcohol has a very drying effect, there is little or none of it in the products intended for dry skin while the products for use on oily skin have high alcohol content. The over-drying action of stronger toners causes skin to react by producing excessive oil to combat the dryness, leading to more breakouts. It is thus safer to use an alcohol-free toner.
An option that everyone could use to avoid formulations is natural rosewater. Rosewater helps keep skin and face moisturized, fresh and balances the pH levels.
How to use a toner?
Follow this routine as part of your skincare regime after cleansing the skin with a cleanser. Apply the skin toner to a cotton ball and sweep it gently across your face. The cotton wool should come out relatively clean when toning. If it is not clean it indicates the cleansing has not been done properly. Do not succumb to the temptation to tone the skin whenever you feel it has become dirty. It should be used only after the skin has completed a cleansing routine and not as a substitute for cleansing. So, remember that your toner must function as a toner and not as a cleanser. |
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Fair with mild rosascea & combination skin (dry with oily t-zone) |
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Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:08 pm |
| They are in dire need of a web designer! they need to make that site more user friendly and inviting, I can't deal with it either. |
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Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:32 am |
Scotslass - thanks for the info, especially the stuff about ph levels. I hadn’t thought of that at all. Although I’ve been taking a break from AHAs, my skin is very used to them (usually only around 12% level though), as I started using them way back when they first began appearing in skincare - yes, I am that old 
What you mentioned about using the CP serum after the MaMa was kind of what I had in mind. But the thought of the wait time involved is offputting ...  m Another option I was considering was alternating, on Day 1 using C serum in the morning and MaMa at night, then on Day 2 using CP serum morning and night. I think I’m probably aging myself more by worrying about this stuff, than any benefit I’ll get from the product
Oh, that’s a good tip about the rosewater too. I’ve used it in the past, just as a general mister, but didn’t realise it had that ph neutralising effect. Thanks again! Off to check the ph levels of my cleansers... |
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Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:37 am |
You're welcome, appletini. The truth is I have Tangal to thank for my pH level obsession!!! Her explanations about the importance of wait times and why they are necessary when you're using Vit-C serums and AHA/BHA's totally changed my skincare routine (for the better, I might add!  ). In case anyone else needs a refresher on the topic, here is a link to her original post that is extremely informative.
www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=18360
I think your plan to use the MaMa lotion at night and then double up on your CP usage the following day is great! Do you take a gram or more of Vitamin C internally every day? This along with MSM will really help to firm up your skin in addition to accelerating the benefits of the copper peptide.
Hope to hear more about your experience using MaMa lotion and how it compares against other AHA's you've used in the past. I am currently going through a Lactic Acid/Salicylic Acid phase, but have my eye on MaMa as something I'd like to try in the future. |
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Fair with mild rosascea & combination skin (dry with oily t-zone) |
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Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:55 pm |
I learned so much about pH and wait times from Tangal (and now ScotsLass ), so my question is why is it so difficult to find a gentle cleanser with a pH of 5.5? I had to search high and low for something for my two "tweens" (Earth Science from Whole Foods for $9) b/c I knew they weren't going to use a toner. It seems to me that A LOT of the skincare products companies make are either harmful or not very beneficial for our skin?
ScotsLass - what other cleanser have you found that are gentle with a pH of 5.5? I'm currently using IFP cleansers. |
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46, curly dk blonde hair, fair, blue eyes, very oily T-zone. HGs: Tazorac .05% gel; Avene/Bioderma s/s (very high spf AND ppd); Cellbone vit Cie 20%; Cellbone Hyperpeptides; IFP 5% bha/10% aha; Obagi Clear; 'curly girl' method (no poo, just co wash) for my 3b curls. |
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Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:07 pm |
| tsjmom wrote: |
I learned so much about pH and wait times from Tangal (and now ScotsLass ), so my question is why is it so difficult to find a gentle cleanser with a pH of 5.5? I had to search high and low for something for my two "tweens" (Earth Science from Whole Foods for $9) b/c I knew they weren't going to use a toner. It seems to me that A LOT of the skincare products companies make are either harmful or not very beneficial for our skin?
ScotsLass - what other cleanser have you found that are gentle with a pH of 5.5? I'm currently using IFP cleansers. |
Hi tsjmom! I couldn't agree more and think the majority of skincare companies make really lousy facial cleansers. Finding a good one with a pH level of 5.5 is insanely difficult, too! At the moment I am using an expensive 3-1 cleanser that is pH balanced and that I like a lot, however, I don't use it exactly as it's intended. This cleanser is geared to be a rinse-free product but I'm not a big fan of any type of residue being left on my skin. So after I cleanse with this lotion, I give my face a very quick rinse with water then mist my skin lightly with pure rosewater. I stumbled across this cleanser for $20 at Winners but know I'll never buy it at full price when I run out. Here is a brief blurb about it.
[b]Carita Nacrée Cleansing & Refreshing Lotion (6.7 oz) - $47.50 [/b http://us.caritadirect.com/product_Lotion+NacrE9e+Cleansing+and+Refreshing+Lotion_8470.htm
A unique 3-in-1 gentle cleanser for the face and eyes. Lotion Nacrée removes eye makeup, gently cleanses the face and regulates the skin’s natural pH. With a unique formulation of Almond and Rice Oil Extract, Lotion Nacrée is gentle enough for the most sensitive skin. Rich in nutrients and essential fatty acids, it helps strengthen the skin’s barrier while stimulating cellular regeneration.
Your question got me thinking of other pH balanced cleansers that are worth trying, so I've been compiling a list that I hope to post soon. I'm currently waiting to hear back from a few companies before I include their products, as my goal is to provide a list of cleansers that are exactly 5.5 or very close to this. I know that Diana Yvonne has a list of cleansers that include pH levels on her website, but it doesn't include some other products that I've come across that are within the 5.5 range.
BTW, I think the Earth Science products for your tweens is a good choice. Though it's pricey for the kids, it's one of the best values out there. Hopefully I will have found another one that rivals it and is much more cost-effective (won't know for certain until next week though!). |
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Fair with mild rosascea & combination skin (dry with oily t-zone) |
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Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:54 pm |
| Thank you for the info ,just getting started and this will be very helpful about wait times .Have never thought about PH levels |
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Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:56 pm |
Just an update - I have to assume that people are not reading the entire thread from start to finish because the list that Havana8 posted for Skinbio's copper peptide products (based on strength from mildest to strongest) is incorrect. I have talked to Dr. Pickart directly and corresponded with his personal assistant regularly and this is the correct order of products. This order is also posted directly on his website atwww.skinbio.com/usingsrcps.html . Hope this settles any confusion because the difference in potential irritation between GHK and the Night Eyes Premier or CP Serum is significant. GHK will not irritate your skin or eye area at all.
Very, Very Mild
Ideal for very sensitive skin. Can be used all over the face as well as around the eye area:
• Super GHK-Copper Cream & Serum
Very Mild:
Ideal for skin around the eyes alone:
• Night Eyes Premier
Mild:
• CP Night Eyes
• Body Lotion
• Day Cover
Moderate, good on oily skin:
• CP Serum
• Protect & Restore #2 – Classic
Moderate, good on dry skin:
• Protect & Restore #3 – with Retinol
Strong, good on drier skin:
• Trireduction with Retinol
Strong, good on sensitive skin:
• P&R for Breasts, Nipples, and Décolletage; also works well on the neck area
Strong, good on very sensitive or irritated skin:
• BioHeal, contains camphor and menthol as soothing agents
Strong, good on acne prone skin:
• Super CP Serum
Very Strong:
• Super Cop Cream
Very, Very Strong:
• Super Cop Cream 2X-Extra Strength |
_________________
Fair with mild rosascea & combination skin (dry with oily t-zone) |
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havana8
Moderator
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 3449
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Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:31 pm |
| I wonder if Skin Biology Canada knows as it is what they have posted on their site.... |
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Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:32 pm |
| havana8 wrote: |
| I wonder if Skin Biology Canada knows as it is what they have posted on their site.... |
I have already reported several discrepancies that are on the Skinbio Canada site to Skinbio USA, so hopefully the Canadian operation will update their site soon. I also mentioned that there is a need for the Canadian website to update their written material earlier in this thread. |
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Fair with mild rosascea & combination skin (dry with oily t-zone) |
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Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:36 am |
ScotsLass and tsjmom, you may want to checkwww.dianayvonne.com
They have quite a few cleansers with pH 5,5 |
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Sat Dec 22, 2007 12:37 pm |
| Thanks, Cadia. I've looked at Diana Yvonne's list a few times and other than the Earth Science cleansers, I'm not wowed by the other products that are in the pH 5.5 range. I'm also hoping to find some new cleansers (again that are pH 5.5) that work well for my specific skin type (which is dry), but are not super expensive. |
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Fair with mild rosascea & combination skin (dry with oily t-zone) |
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Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:59 pm |
| That's too bad. I was a little impressed that they actually listed the pH value, but I haven't tried any of them before. However, I ordered some earlier this week, but am now happy that I just ordered sample sizes. |
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Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:44 pm |
Dear Copper Peptide Experts, do you know if Skinbio products have any expire dates?
I bought both CP serum and Super CP serum (shipping is quite expensive to us) one year ago. I used CP serum and almost finished the bottle in the spring, but then some strange red spot started to develop on the cheek under my right eye. I even visited doctors to check what it was. I immediately quit to use the serum and other stuff I started to use that time.
Recently I found Super CP serum in my refrigerator. I totally forgot that I still have it!
Now I am thinking if it is still suitable for usage? Or it has already expired?.. Thanks for any advices. |
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brunette, 42, combination/freckled skin |
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Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:17 pm |
| These products probably do expire, I would email them and ask. |
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47, former sunworshipper, skincare addict, oily T-zone, fair skinned, love Vita A, some hyperpigmentation, microneedler. |
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Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:58 am |
| ScotsLass wrote: |
Your question got me thinking of other pH balanced cleansers that are worth trying, so I've been compiling a list that I hope to post soon. I'm currently waiting to hear back from a few companies before I include their products, as my goal is to provide a list of cleansers that are exactly 5.5 or very close to this. I know that Diana Yvonne has a list of cleansers that include pH levels on her website, but it doesn't include some other products that I've come across that are within the 5.5 range.
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I was just wondering if you every put together a list of cleansers that have a pH of 5.5 or close to this? |
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Kim 58, living in Ohio |
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