I tracked over 50 skincare brands and talk is way down! Why?
EDS Skin Care Forums Forum Index » Skin Care and Makeup Forum

free skin care · Sat Aug 30, 2014 7:39 pm

I tracked over 50 skincare brands and how many EDS forum posts per year mention them. I can’t embed the visualization here, so if you’re interested in this kind of stuff like I am, just visit the link: http://www.2ndenvironment.com/blog/most-talked-about-brands-on-eds.

What shocked me?
Look at the viz—there’s been an across the board drop in discussion for these skincare brands. Some have dropped like a rock: e.g., Decleor goes from being mentioned in 1,455 posts in 2006, to 414 in 2008, to just 21 last year. That’s huge!

How did I get the idea to do this?
I recently visited this forum again after an absence of many years. There used to be a lot of discussion about particular brands, and it seemed to me that was missing in a big way. To confirm, I did searches for various brands I used to obsess over. For brand after brand, discussion peaked years ago. I just kept going, and decided to put everything into Tableau so I could see what was happening.

Seriously, what’s going on?
Why has discussion on so many brands dropped? Here are a few theories I came up with:

1) There’s another place on the Internet that offers quality discussion about skincare. (If so, where is that?)

2) People don’t want to talk about skincare products as much after the financial crisis.

3) There haven’t been any big advances to talk about. Everything is iteration and not disruption.

What are your thoughts/theories?

(I realize I haven’t contributed to discussion for many years. But for a period of my life, I shared my journey from know-nothing to educated consumer. Since there are always young people becoming old people, I figured there would always be new people getting interested in skincare and sharing their journey.)

Sun Aug 31, 2014 2:45 am

Hi RMB

Loving your analysis! more please.

I think:
- people have moved onto machines/fillers eg Reaura, pico toner microcurrent, sqoom ultrasound,

- face creams are over priced for the benefits they provide. Fawnie, Dragon, Kassy lead the way in making face creams at home using much the same ingredients, nicinamide, peptides, etc. They do work eg Sisley La Mer, but Reaura is way better for Caucasians.

- the face creams that show the most difference are risky and take a long time to fully work;
retin A works by causing inflammation,
de-pigmentation creams require high doses of active ingredients
obaji,
copper peptides
all can cause serious problems down the line especially on fragile older skin.

- the very rich have constant maintenance from cosmetic doctors and it's easier for them to eat healthy food.

On an entirely different note, I read a while back that sweating might help skin renew itself as skin stem cells reside next to the sweat glands. I've since noticed that people who do regular vigorous exercise in fresh air and eat healthily have clear firm skin that no cream can emulate. I think a lot more people are now interested in skin improvements from within eg eating orange/red fruit veg for a nice facial skin colour, avoiding sugar spikes so less saggy facial skin

free skin care · Sun Aug 31, 2014 2:54 pm

RMB, a very interesting graph! Which program did you use to draw it?

On-topic, I believe that your analysis reflects a disappointment by many in skincare. There are only few topical creams that can truly make a difference in your skin: Retin A, AHA, Vit C or any other AO serum, and a sunblock. All the rest, IMO, is optional.

Sun Aug 31, 2014 3:58 pm

Long-time lurker here. I agree, aside from the sunscreen, retin a, aha, peels, and vitamin c (probably in that order), everything else just seems optional. And those five things are relatively inexpensive.

Personally, I've had the most results from retin a, and from stepping up from a lower percentage to 0.1%. That's when I really saw results. Also, hussar, retin a doesn't work by causing inflammation, although it can irritate skin that isn't accustomed to it.

I've also been dermarolling, which has produced good results, as well as using ultrasound and LED, red and green.

free skin care · Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:24 pm

This place in general has been much slower over the past 6 months. We lost a lot of regulars....

free skin care · Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:40 pm

LauraLizzie wrote:

This place in general has been much slower over the past 6 months. We lost a lot of regulars....

I agree. This is one of the main reasons. Regulars used to create a lot of traffic on the forum. Now that they are gone, a lot of topics do not get the attention they used to get.

free skin care · Sun Aug 31, 2014 9:42 pm

Thanks everyone for the great ideas so far! I agree with a lot of what's been said.

>RussianSunshine and Photopro talked about us knowing the ingredients that make an outsized impact. Those are the critical ones, and the rest are optional/nice-to-have.

>hussar01 talked about the focus of discussion shifting to devices. And also that there are more small/home-based brands competing with the corporate brands.

>LauraLizzie and RussianSunshine talked about forum regulars leaving, as happens (but maybe they'll return Very Happy

).

---

Russian, I used Tableau to create the visualization. Just click on their logo at the bottom right of the viz, and it'll take you to their site. The software is free(!) if you're willing to make your visualizations public.

Photopro, I'm glad you're not lurking anymore; I really liked your post. (Yeah, I agree, I don't remember retinoids being inflammatory.)

hussar, I made another viz based off your comment on discussion shifting to devices (thank you!). I hosted it in a new post on my blog.

Here are some images so people don't have to leave the site:

You can see that discussion on fractionated lasers has really picked up.

Sun Aug 31, 2014 9:51 pm

Hello everyone
I am so happy to have found this great site. And such educated consumers. So rare. Have to tell you. I am a formulator, chemist, etc. Will not say where but for over 12 years. I pretty much know all the ingredients and how they work. I appreciate educated consumers because they are so rare. Its amazing. Makes me laugh sometimes how people buy and why they spend all this money Anyway I will try to stay neutral and not disclose too much. I have pretty much developed everything under the sun. Cosmetics, skin care, etc. Now I have developed a particular product(s), for the skin, and my biggest issue is trying to sell it. This was a mistake development as I was working on something different but turns out it works great on something completely different. Got offers for the formula. etc. If there is anyone here with advice, let me know. I am not a great sales person. I refuse to sell my formulas and cannot give up. I believe that educated consumers are out there. Thats my problem. Any advice on selling a good skin product from the consumer point of view would be appreciated. I am not sure if I can say why but lets just say I do not use Retinol in my products. I like to fix issues permanently. I have a different philosophy to life and problems in general. PERMANENT FIXES only. I will not be claiming anything. Proof is in the users.

free skin care · Thu Sep 04, 2014 7:32 am

I would say your #1 covers it and that would be plural as in other places...

There’s another place on the Internet that offers quality discussion about skincare.

What causes active, productive forums to usually implode?

(a) the site goes from free to subscription

OR

(b) Some kind of scandal/fraud/psychotic behavioral weirdness or rudeness, out of control (or none at all) moderation = posters lose interest quickly.

BFG

free skin care · Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:44 pm

I definitely prefer an online forum with a diversity of views backed up with solid arguments. For example, is La Mer more than the sum of its parts, because the preparation process IS really special? I like that some people say yes and make valid points, and some people say no and make valid points. To me a forum is weird if everyone is just agreeing with each other all the time--it's too clubby or cult-y.

But we don't have to be rude when we disagree; that's something I have to remind myself of over and over again. BFG, could you let me know what are some of the other places? I'd like to see what they're like.

---

I do agree with a lot of what was said previously, though. This forum started and took off because we all came together to figure out what works. (People were even experimenting with bird poop, remember that? Hehe.)

Well, we succeeded. We got pretty good consensus (way more than on a bunch of other issues in life) on A, C, exfoliating acids, and good sunblock ingredients. This forum started in 2002, and I think by around 2006/2007 (give or take) we were pretty confident on those good answers.

I get that with the job done, people would leave. And then after we all started agreeing on what works, we started talking about how to get those ingredients for cheaper.

free skin care · Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:58 pm

I keep checking back here on the Forum and not much that interests me is going on. It used to have a lot more about makeup, moisturizers and such. I found all or most of my favorites on here. I am not into devices, or making stuff up myself, so there is little to read even.
My best find in the day was Remergent and I loved it. When they sold out, nothing has made as great a difference to me as Lifeline skin care which I have been using to good effect (for my age, for sure) almost from its appearance on this forum.
I am grateful for that.
I should put on some reviews of Armani skin care which I use some of. And maybe I will.
I don't know where everybody who was on here went, but I remember the day when we were taught how to use mineral makeup and such. I really enjoyed the variety and tried many, many things.
Kind of too bad that it changed.

free skin care · Sun Sep 07, 2014 6:57 pm

You might want to include another product brand in your analysis - Ageless Secret - you will find a lot of info here using the search function.

BFG

free skin care · Mon Sep 08, 2014 5:48 am

Barefootgirl wrote:

You might want to include another product brand in your analysis - Ageless Secret - you will find a lot of info here using the search function.

BFG

this!

free skin care · Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:05 am

I was never a sucker for overpriced face creams. I've only used the ones already mentioned as being truly effective, like AHA/BHA, copper peptides,dermarolling, retin A, estriol cream (although I'm not truly convinced) and just recently vitamin C (jury still out). Anything else is a waste of money. Most of those creams smell nice and make your skin feel smoother but they are just moisturizers.

I'd rather spend my money on fillers and botox.

free skin care · Mon Sep 22, 2014 4:01 am

Have to say I was on this forum a lot a couple of years ago, I've only just got back into it "life happens" but just coming back to it is great, this forum is amazing and I've learnt so much from it.

I learnt that most the over priced creams don't work and to keep it basic essentials vit c, retin A(which I had good results with but haven't yet used long enough to get the fab results due to pregnancy), derma rolling again I really need to put more effort into that, aspirin masks yet to try but intend to tonight maybe Smile

free skin care · Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:44 am

I am so impressed by what you have done！ most importantly， it is the spirit underneath！ thumbs up！

free skin care · Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:20 pm

My basics are Retin-A, Environ C-quence, estriol cream (not the weaker cream from SMN but rather the cream from InHousePharmacy). Topical estradiol also works very well. I am careful with Retin-A as it causes an increase in facial peach fuzz in fairer skinned women and it can cause scalp hair loss if one's intake of vitamin A is excessive.

The only expensive face cream that works for me is Crème de la Mer. As much as I'd like to call it bunk and save my money, it really does make a difference in my skin and I find myself coming back to it every year when the weather gets colder. I justify the cost by using it as an eye cream, and neck cream, as well as a face cream. It's my all purpose splurge.

free skin care · Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:49 pm

Forgot to add that I Dermaroll as well.

free skin care · Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:22 pm

I was lucky to have found this forum when DarkMoon, Kassy and others were still active - and got many of my newbie questions answered.
Of course, I still have plenty of questions, but I I don't feel I have the experts/veterans around to answer them.
I have been using my SafeTox, TNS Essential Serum, experimenting with Vit C, sun screen, diet - and I'd love to have a community to share my experiences with, but since the EDS forum has died, I am tracking my progress (or lack thereof) on my own.
I bout CFF over a year ago and have yet to start it because I lost my interest in it since I do not have anyone to chat about it with. Crying or Very sad

So, are there other places where the forum members are lurking now?

free skin care · Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:52 pm

I agee with the thoughts shared here. So many of the posts these days are variations of "I like" or "I want to try". There is little dialog on what works, no one seems too willing to help people with questions any more. And of course, many of the questions are answered anyway if people would read the thread.

There just doesn't seem to be the volume of new products either to support heavy dialog.

And then I see posts on other forums where people state they don't "trust" the postings on EDS any more. Many, including myself, just lose interest.

free skin care · Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:23 am

I, too, am saddened by how many of people who had the most insight have left.

I'll offer a different view: I don't think it's because people have suddenly realized what is and isn't effective and therefore are less interested in talking...

I think that 2 debacles in particular precipitated the decline:
* the Ageless Secret drama
* the Dr. J drama
Up until those points, there was still plenty of great discussions.

Afterwards, I received a couple PMs from more senior folks that they were tired of the drama on this forum and some of the shody science and were looking into other discussion venues that came without the attacks.

I'd be willing to bet that is a significant part of the issue here....

free skin care · Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:06 pm

When I first found this forum, I was amazed at all of the wonderful information and ideas being shared. In a world where reliable evidence-based information on skincare and anti-aging is in short supply, EDS was an oasis.

But then it all went south. Too much pseudo-science and junk science shouting down anyone with any scientifically-based perspectives. I've already seen that movie--as a cancer survivor, I'd seen Team Science versus Team Voodoo battles where they really mattered. And for me, skincare wasn't worth the drama. So I moved on...

free skin care · Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:23 pm

That's such a good visual: EDS as an oasis.

Personally, I like to follow what those who work in research in a university say. Being employed by a university earns a lot of credibility with me.

---

There's been mention of Ageless Secret a few times in this thread. Whether for or against it, it might be interesting to see how its discussion compares with that of other brands.

The problem is that I can't accurately track it. All the brands I tracked were proper nouns, foreign words, or completely made up words. Because the search term was uncommon, you could be quite confident the search results were connected with that brand. (That doesn't mean it was positive discussion. And it doesn't mean it was focused on the brand. For example, a number of DIY vit. C posts mentioned Skinceuticals.)

But "Ageless Secret" yields, for example, results for Ageless Facial Exercises. It's the same reason I can't track "ReVive." The search function of this BBS is definitely not very advanced.

One thing I have learned about brand names, is that having one made up of uncommon words makes your brand much easier to search for!

free skin care · Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:13 pm

RMB wrote:

That's such a good visual: EDS as an oasis.

Quote:

Personally, I like to follow what those who work in research in a university say. Being employed by a university earns a lot of credibility with me.

---

There's been mention of Ageless Secret a few times in this thread. Whether for or against it, it might be interesting to see how its discussion compares with that of other brands.

The problem is that I can't accurately track it. All the brands I tracked were proper nouns, foreign words, or completely made up words. Because the search term was uncommon, you could be quite confident the search results were connected with that brand. (That doesn't mean it was positive discussion. And it doesn't mean it was focused on the brand. For example, a number of DIY vit. C posts mentioned Skinceuticals.)

But "Ageless Secret" yields, for example, results for Ageless Facial Exercises. It's the same reason I can't track "ReVive." The search function of this BBS is definitely not very advanced.

One thing I have learned about brand names, is that having one made up of uncommon words makes your brand much easier to search for!

I relay more on science (pub md reports, research documented, etc.)than marketing.

I like to know what the ingredients are suppose to do in the product. I dislike companies that will not disclose anything under the guise of "proprietary information". These are the same companies that often will NOT list full ingredients.

I usually like google for my search. When I do a board search on EDS, I don't get the same results.

free skin care · Sat Nov 01, 2014 6:18 pm

I've been sad to come back here and see such a drop in interest and discussion.

I am guilty as well. I used to always post.

I think the economic crisis did have something to do with it. Many of us had important things to worry about ..think about..and talking about vanity seemed silly.

As i have come back.. i find the daily posts small in number. I also find that many threads are filled with posts of people just trying something with hope..and there is never really a conclusion or conclusive proof that something is working.

And i know about the old standards.. retin a ..obaji…copper peptides…facial exercise..clarsonic. The true blue stuff that works.

Would love to learn something new.

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