If you could've started early, which facial ex program?
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free skin care · Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:53 am

I've posted a temporary photo for flexers in the forum there, its not a creme de la creme photo by any comparison but is sufficient to show that I'm not heavily wrinkled, sagging, etc and should help flexers in the mean time to have confidence with the technique I hope. I am getting some professional shots done for the naysayers too but need a little time for those!

free skin care · Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:58 am

Sean posted a photo showing his results on the forum, and I've asked permission to repost here for people who are curious:

free skin care · Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:07 am

Sean looks marvelous for his age, which is...
30,40,50...100? lol.

free skin care · Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:34 am

Thank you for sharing! I thought you would be older Shock

free skin care · Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:36 am

Sean...you look great!

free skin care · Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:37 am

Wait, forgot to include my before photo:

(just kidding that is of course Catweezle!).

As I explained on the FlexEffect forum, this isn't the best example of what Flexing can achieve because its showing me in my tired form (I had been on a train for some 12 hours going to Scotland, and it was only supposed to take 8 hrs). Nonetheless though I think it demonstrates that rough handling isn't going to result in major damage - you can see from my photos I have no lines, my skin is completely hydrated, no wrinkling, no sagging and even though I'm very tired in this shot (was a friend taking a candid shot at the Station) there aren't eye bags or severe wrinkling that others would have you believe would be possible from Flexing!

free skin care · Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:48 am

Lotusesther wrote:

Thank you for sharing! I thought you would be older Shock

LOL...

This will get interesting. When I was 20ish, I worked for Corporate at Restoration Hardware, (are you familiar with them?) I'd call the various stores telling them I needed x, y & z! and they would promptly get it to me. I don't have a sqeaky little girl voice.

Then I had to travel to the stores! And it was over. "Are you even out of high school?" I had to have the owner make the occassional phone call that I had not somehow forgotten how to do my job and they still needed to do theirs correctly! (failure to do so was cause for my endless calls)

So, just for the record. It's worth knowing that Sean is HYPER educated in this field. Especially for someone his age (I'll let him reveal!) He's taken class after class within various settings regarding the face.

Perhaps we should call him Doogie Howser!

free skin care · Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:36 pm

Okay, I have no idea how old Sean is, but I'd like to take a stab at guessing since I now see his picture. I know by the above post that you can't be too old because of what was said.

Sean, I'm going to say you are...28! How close am I?

By the way, you are a very handsome young man. And look years younger than your before picture posted above. Laughing

free skin care · Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:15 pm

He looks like dr Sweets,from Bones.But younger.

free skin care · Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:14 pm

Lotusesther wrote:

He looks like dr Sweets,from Bones.But younger.

He does have that look! Wow!!!

free skin care · Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:27 pm

ClaudiaFE wrote:

Nonie aka AD wrote:

ClaudiaFE keeps showing us just ONE photo of herself when she was 35. Is that the only photo there is? What I think would be more useful is seeing progressive photos taken over the 20 years of doing resistance training. In other words, everyone can find one good photo of themselves or she may just be one of those people who has good genes who still looks young at 35 and so never needed face exercises until then. I mean, if she were doing resistance training over 20 years and her mom is the trainer, am I the only one who finds it odd that her photos were never taken to represent the young? And since she obviously did the earlier programs, then I'd guess she had "awkward stages" like many people did and her mom's assurance that this is passing stage would make one assume it happened to her too, and that her 35 year old photo is what comes later. So wouldn't it be nice to see that transition? I mean, I do find it odd that for a family for whom Facialbuilding is their forte, there is no series of photos showing how the program affected young faces.
I mean, if my mom was trainer of a program, you can bet my bottom dollar, I'd be up there supporting her with all the evidence I can muster to show my face over the years and how Facialbuilding (the term you all use for your kind of resistance training) changed it over the years. The fact that you, ClaudiaFE, say you never looked old but were aging well, is precisely why I find it odd that if only to squash what you all imply is untruth, you don't have a series of photos showing you at different ages and how Facialbuilding maintained that face from year to year.

Good idea. Perhaps when I do post my next round of photos I'll do a spread of my ages! I'm sure you can understand that I'm on my own life schedule. Not yours. Complain all you want. Point all the fingers. Surely you're not suggesting my 35 y/o face has been cosmetically altered. Or looks bad for 35. So, I'm not sure what you're expecting from younger looking pics.

Not at all. You look like what I'd expect a 35-year old who hasn't been a sun worshipper, abused drugs or been a chain smoker or alcoholic who parties all night every night with little sleep to look like.

What I'm expecting to see from younger photos is proof of what you claim: that you haven't changed in 20 years. That you maintained the same face you had at a younger age with Facialbuilding. If one makes such a claim, one should have no problem posting the evidence, right? And I ask particularly because I do not believe resistance training is good for youthful faces. You and others claim it is...and you confirm this by stating that 20 years of FE have kept you looking the same. Are we just supposed to believe your words? Is it wrong for us to want to see what you mean by that?

ClaudiaFE wrote:

Yeah, I might post them, Or I might not... Haven't decided. It's really not my thing to plaster my face all over the net. Was never my life long ambition. I have always had other things I prefer to work on. Losing my privacy to support my mother's business has never been an issue.

LOL no one is asking you to plaster your face all over the Web. And I am not sure I follow your point about not wanting to lose your privacy. You already have an avatar photo and that photo with your son up. So how are one or two more photos going to change the status quo of your privacy? It's not like people don't know how you look and you're not being asked to hold up your SSN or any other info that would invade your privacy beyond what is already public.

ClaudiaFE wrote:

[In the mean time, however, for anyone that wants a spread of photos over the years... Deb has hers. Since she's the program designer, I'd say they are a fair representation.
http://www.flexeffect.com/debpic.htm

Your mom's pics do not show the photos of a someone who started Facialbuilding at the age of 20, so do not answer the question of why you all keep saying Facialbuilding or resistance training is good for young faces. There isn't a iota of evidence to this effect, but your own words as being an example of this. Your mom was in her late 20's, almost thirty, when she started non-resistance face exercises, and afterward she added resistance training when she created Flex Effect. In other words, your mom followed the same path I suggest people follow: start with non-resistance training and add resistance later. It worked for her, it worked for me, it worked for Eva...and I'll not be surprised if a lot of other instructors didn't follow that same path. So your mom's journey would not convince me if I were young, that Facialbuilding would be the right program for me to start any facial training, because not only didn't she START with Facialbuilding (she did non-resistance training first!) but she was 32 when she did eventually start Facialbuilding. If anything, I'd believe that if I am to expect good results, I would have to follow suit: start with toning exercises and then only begin Facialbuilding at 32. What's more while your mom looks good for her age, I can't really say she maintained her face as you claim to have done with the same program she does. She has changed somewhat and looks different from how she did in her mid-fifties. So what I gather from her photos is there will be change in the way one looks over time so that one looks different albeit good for one's age. I think your mom had a softness before which she had until she was in her mid-fifties which I personally preferred. And as I've showed before, others also change with FE, and while cm5597 keeps insisting Facialbuilding isn't for maintaining but for adding mass, that is not what the photos on FE show. So your photos, ClaudiaFE intrigue me because

1) they would show that young people can MAINTAIN the same look over the years doing Facialbuilding--unlike what happens with older people;

2) that starting Facialbuilding at a young age is actually good as you all claim because it doesn't make the face worse as some of us have experienced with resistance training in general.

ClaudiaFE wrote:

I know people HATE that she zoomed in on her eyes. TO SHOW THE LACK of wrinkles... Go ahead and click that last picture! It's a video, not a picture under certain lighting or posed just right... and heck with cancer too boot!

Claudia, I'm sorry your mom has suffered with cancer but I just lost an aunt after 23 years of living with cancer, so I do know that not everyone with cancer will look sickly. So I'm not sure what your point for mentioning that was. And BTW, the only problem I had with the zoomed in black and white photos was the absence of a full photo at the same time as those (The excuse given: absence of makeup) and the question of why her hands were on the side of her face also had a few of us baffled and someone on YTF said it looked like she was holding her face up (We were told she was holding her hair away from her face). Now if that were my program, if I knew my photos were that confusing, I'd have slapped on that makeup that kept me from taking a full photo had a it posted pronto and used a hair band to hold my hair back. But that's just me. *shrug*

SeanySeanUK I beg your pardon but I don't know why it is that asking you to show your photos is considered being "aggressive against FE". I'd actually like you to point out what part of my post was aggressive against FE? Question

If you will recall, you were the very first person to ask ME for my photos and this was on YTF. When I stated I was no longer doing FE and was doing another program, you asked me to post my photos so you could see how well the new program I was doing was working for me. Even though you clearly were more interested in proving your point that had I stayed with FE, I'd have been happier...I didn't take your dare as an affront or aggressive. So why can't you take your own medicine eh? Why the defensiveness?
Also, I do find it funny that you assume that I visit FE. How would I know what goes on in the 3rd Edition Workshop or are you now letting everyone in nowadays? Clearly I don't HAVE to go to FE to know what goes on there. Wink

And why would I be interested? For the same reason you wanted to see what results I got from the program I was doing after leaving FE. For the same reason everyone is interested in seeing what changes different anti-aging techniques make to people. And like I said, sometimes the info is used to show me that yet another person had the same experience I had if only to reassure me that I'm not crazy. That's what friends are for!

Oh and I think you look great, Sean. (Thank you TheresaMary for posting the photo.) And SeanySeanUK I'm not the one who's ever had a problem with angles or lighting in photos. I have never ever commented on any photo posted as being unclear or hard to judge because of camera angles or lighting--those things have never bothered me at all. If anything, I've always defended people's before/after photos stating that no one ever posts before/after photos with a view to deceive so the suggestion that lighting or angles are used to deceive is unfair. One might as well not submit their photos if they aren't happy with the changes; why send in something you aren't happy with? So when people send their photos to be put up, they really want to share positive results they see in themselves. That they can't always capture it well on camera doesn't change the fact that there is a positive difference they are excited to share and if one really isn't just being overly skeptical, then one can usually see the changes they are trying to share. So any time you've seen me discuss lighting or angles, it's been in answer to those who challenge lighting or camera angles, and it is for them that I have taken my own photos in different angles and lighting to show that there really isn't any deception going on in people who want to share their progress. I appreciate you letting TheresaMary share your photo finally!

free skin care · Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:57 pm

Nonie aka AD wrote:

What I'm expecting to see from younger photos is proof of what you claim: that you haven't changed in 20 years. That you maintained the same face you had at a younger age with Facialbuilding.

Help me out here. Where did I say my face hadn't changed in 20 years. I have a feeling I need to clarify.

free skin care · Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:17 pm

ClaudiaFE wrote:

Nonie aka AD wrote:

What I'm expecting to see from younger photos is proof of what you claim: that you haven't changed in 20 years. That you maintained the same face you had at a younger age with Facialbuilding.

Help me out here. Where did I say my face hadn't changed in 20 years. I have a feeling I need to clarify.

I beg your pardon. I now realize that it is Audrea you said started at 18 and has been doing aggressive training for 20 years or so, not you. My bad. So her photos over the years would be interesting to see.

free skin care · Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:29 pm

I do not know many 35-year-olds who look that good in the face as Claudia (aside from you and a few others). She has no sag, a lot of youthful fullness, no wrinkles, good skin tone, etc.

This is more what 35-years-old with an excellent skincare regime looks like:

http://tandlesachin21.onsugar.com/reese-witherspoon-without-makeup-13331460

(scroll down to the 3rd photo and other without make-up photos)

...except that Reese Witherspoon still has these killer cheekbones, which makes her look good anyways. But ignoring those cheekbones, you can see that she is starting to lose fullness from her face, develop faint lines, and a few features on her face are starting to drop.

Nonie aka AD wrote:

What I'm expecting to see from younger photos is proof of what you claim: that you haven't changed in 20 years. That you maintained the same face you had at a younger age with Facialbuilding. If one makes such a claim, one should have no problem posting the evidence, right?

She never said that. In fact, Claudia has been very clear over the years that facial exercise cannot stop the aging the process, but allows you to age more slowly. Let's be realistic here; no one's stopping time here. For example, I can totally see aging in your face for 20 or so odd years you've been doing facial exercises...but that still doesn't mean you don't look great and younger than your age...and you do look fabulous, although a few years older. I'm sure the same is true with Claudia and her sister.

Nonie aka AD wrote:

In other words, your mom followed the same path I suggest people follow: start with non-resistance training and add resistance later. It worked for her, it worked for me, it worked for Eva...and I'll not be surprised if a lot of other instructors didn't follow that same path. So your mom's journey would not convince me if I were young, that Facialbuilding would be the right program for me to start any facial training, because not only didn't she START with Facialbuilding (she did non-resistance training first!) but she was 32 when she did eventually start Facialbuilding. If anything, I'd believe that if I am to expect good results, I would have to follow suit: start with toning exercises and then only begin Facialbuilding at 32. What's more while your mom looks good for her age, I can't really say she maintained her face as you claim to have done with the same program she does. She has changed somewhat and looks different from how she did in her mid-fifties. So what I gather from her photos is there will be change in the way one looks over time so that one looks different albeit good for one's age. I think your mom had a softness before which she had until she was in her mid-fifties which I personally preferred.

I've posted on this topic before. Yes, Deb, Carolyn, Carole Maggio, etc...All their faces changed more during their mid-fifties. The difference looks to me to be menopause and bone loss. I see it in Carole's loss of cheekbones in her mid-fifties (before it looks like she got cheek implants), in the eye hollows and jawline in Carolyn of CFF, and also in Deb's face a bit in the upper cheekbone area (that plus I think Deb's chin muscles are a bit larger). I think that's what you're picking up on. I've seen almost no one who has been able to avoid that completely. But the bone loss does appear to be less bad in Deb than in the average person, even despite her vitamin D deficiency.

Nonie aka AD wrote:

And as I've showed before, others also change with FE, and while cm5597 keeps insisting Facialbuilding isn't for maintaining but for adding mass, that is not what the photos on FE show.

That's not quite what I said, so let me say it once more so that it's clear. If you want to significantly build mass, you must do frequent resistance training (with heavy weight). However, if you just want to maintain muscle tone, then you can EITHER do to toning exercises frequently OR you can do a modified program of resistance training (either with less weight, fewer reps/seps, and/or less often). So either toning exercises OR modifying resistance exercises can be used if you just want good muscle tone but no increase in muscle mass.

Clearly, what Claudia and her sister are doing is trying to MAINTAIN fullness. Hence they are not training with resistance exercises with the goal to increase muscle mass. I gave a great example of this above, which I assume you missed. Cathy, the FE trainer, has said that she is mostly in maintenance mode and hence does a full program of resistance exercises twice a week (a modified program).

So I'm guessing, Nonie, that you just didn't know that there is indeed a way that resistance exercises can be used to maintain tone if they are modified. I hope that this better description plus an example clarifies things for you.

Nonie aka AD wrote:

Claudia, I'm sorry your mom has suffered with cancer but I just lost an aunt after 23 years of living with cancer, so I do know that not everyone with cancer will look sickly. So I'm not sure what your point for mentioning that was. And BTW, the only problem I had with the zoomed in black and white photos was the absence of a full photo at the same time as those (The excuse given: absence of makeup) and the question of why her hands were on the side of her face also had a few of us baffled and someone on YTF said it looked like she was holding her face up (We were told she was holding her hair away from her face). Now if that were my program, if I knew my photos were that confusing, I'd have slapped on that makeup that kept me from taking a full photo had a it posted pronto and used a hair band to hold my hair back. But that's just me. *shrug*

For the past two years, there's been video of Deb's entire face here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih3VpSOeJPc

So you can see Deb's whole face very easily.

Second, I think that's somewhat understandable in that I noticed that Deb, Carolyn, and Carole Maggio all want to have flattering photos of themselves.

I remember when I was trying to decide between buying FE and CFF, I was frustrated by the fact that all of Carolyn's recent photos were taken from a very particular side profile and when you tried to enlarge the photo, the resolution wasn't very good. Clearly, she was trying to play up the positives and hide the negatives. But even though Carolyn only showed her face at a particular angle, she did at least have some nice before and afters of other people.

Oh, speaking about out-of-date photos, Carolyn's photos are very now out of date, with the last one taken 3 years ago in 2009. Nonie, since you've really made an effort to ask facial exercise experts to update their photos, could you say something to Carolyn and ask her to post more up-to-date ones, from the front, and with good resolution? I also have always wanted to see clear photos of all the facial exercise experts and trainers, including the FE trainers, but never had the chutzpah to ask, like you do. Would you ask her? Because I think that she is just as guilty in not updating her photos and in taking photos at weird angles. Thanks in advance Smile

free skin care · Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:28 am

Nonie

Oh dear this is the typical response that I’m so used to from you, so can you please remain calm and reread the messages above and then respond. Example: I say “when I read your messages Nonie as it has to be said that there is such an aggression to FlexEffect” and you interpret this as “asking you to show your photos is considered being "aggressive against FE"? Clearly a misinterpretation going on.

As to your visiting the FE forum and making as ASSUMPTION – you should know me better by now. It was actually through your own words where you revealed that you visited the forum on EDS. It was where Claudia had shared Hamelin’s photos and you revealed you read various elements about him on the general forum (your words not mine!) – the only place that you could have read that was either on Hamelin’s Facebook or on the forum and I seem to recall this was noticed by others (not just myself) who asked you openly where you had read that and I know you’re not a friend of Hamelin’s yet to my knowledge. You wouldn’t know what goes on in the 3rd edition workshop (yet I’m still bemused that someone confessed to sending you the clip of Deb Cross Stretching on EDS but ca la vie), but for the general forum we now ask people to register to avoid previous mishaps that used to happen and so if you had at some point read Hamelin’s messages or history and seen his photos you would have had to have register – simple FACT not ASSUMPTION so unless you can enlighten me as to how you could obtain information about a flexer and his routine other than logging into the forum I think you should take that back!

As I said previously this photo isn’t by any means the best to show or highlight what flexing can achieve, but as you stated before people wanted a photo so they got a temporary one in the mean time. The professional shots which will show better detail I’ll post when I have them but need to really focus on sorting out my fathers probate matters first which I hope you’ll understand.

Thank you.

Sean

Nonie aka AD wrote:

SeanySeanUK I beg your pardon but I don't know why it is that asking you to show your photos is considered being "aggressive against FE". I'd actually like you to point out what part of my post was aggressive against FE? Question

If you will recall, you were the very first person to ask ME for my photos and this was on YTF. When I stated I was no longer doing FE and was doing another program, you asked me to post my photos so you could see how well the new program I was doing was working for me. Even though you clearly were more interested in proving your point that had I stayed with FE, I'd have been happier...I didn't take your dare as an affront or aggressive. So why can't you take your own medicine eh? Why the defensiveness?
Also, I do find it funny that you assume that I visit FE. How would I know what goes on in the 3rd Edition Workshop or are you now letting everyone in nowadays? Clearly I don't HAVE to go to FE to know what goes on there. Wink

And why would I be interested? For the same reason you wanted to see what results I got from the program I was doing after leaving FE. For the same reason everyone is interested in seeing what changes different anti-aging techniques make to people. And like I said, sometimes the info is used to show me that yet another person had the same experience I had if only to reassure me that I'm not crazy. That's what friends are for!

Oh and I think you look great, Sean. (Thank you TheresaMary for posting the photo.) And SeanySeanUK I'm not the one who's ever had a problem with angles or lighting in photos. I have never ever commented on any photo posted as being unclear or hard to judge because of camera angles or lighting--those things have never bothered me at all. If anything, I've always defended people's before/after photos stating that no one ever posts before/after photos with a view to deceive so the suggestion that lighting or angles are used to deceive is unfair. One might as well not submit their photos if they aren't happy with the changes; why send in something you aren't happy with? So when people send their photos to be put up, they really want to share positive results they see in themselves. That they can't always capture it well on camera doesn't change the fact that there is a positive difference they are excited to share and if one really isn't just being overly skeptical, then one can usually see the changes they are trying to share. So any time you've seen me discuss lighting or angles, it's been in answer to those who challenge lighting or camera angles, and it is for them that I have taken my own photos in different angles and lighting to show that there really isn't any deception going on in people who want to share their progress. I appreciate you letting TheresaMary share your photo finally!

free skin care · Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:38 am

Ah Sandooch thats very sweet of you to say, I'm actually in my 30's, but from a young age have always been very tall - from about 14 years I was 6" in height and am currently 6.3" so people always presume that a person is older when they're tall - and studies have been done that proves that we often equate tall people with being older. Age to me is really nothing but a number and I refuse myself at any point in life to be dictated to or limited by that number – but its often interesting to me as my recent blood work has according to my doc been that of an exceptional healthy 21 year old. Its really above average in many different areas but there are of course some areas where I need to improve on (so even after these years I’m not at the point where I’m completely happy).

I had a VISTA scan done a month ago, and that kind of analyses the face and tells you where areas of damage are and also guesses an age based on the damage etc there and it came out at 20 years – so according to VISTA – I’m 20 years old, but my blood work is 21, and I’m 10 years up on both of those so who knows!

sandooch wrote:

Sean, I'm going to say you are...28! How close am I?

By the way, you are a very handsome young man. And look years younger than your before picture posted above. Laughing

Haven’t seen it but I’m sure it’s a compliment! I’ll have to watch that show – its on my ever increasing to do list!

ClaudiaFE wrote:

Lotusesther wrote:

He looks like dr Sweets,from Bones.But younger.

He does have that look! Wow!!!

free skin care · Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:34 am

SeanySeanUK wrote:

Haven’t seen it but I’m sure it’s a compliment!

Scroll down to the picture similar photo

http://blog.zap2it.com/ithappenedlastnight/2009/11/bones-sweets-and-dr-wyatt-puzzle-out-the-boothbrennan-relationship.html

He's a total doll! And I love his Character on Bones.

YES... a compliment!

free skin care · Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:07 pm

SeanySeanUK I am so calm. LOL BTW, how is it that I can actually stick to a discussion without turning it around to some 3rd degree about me and the FE forum. Why the heck do you care anyway? If it makes you happy to assume I have time to visit FE to get info myself and that I don't get them sent to me, then be my guest. Or maybe someone who cares and has been paying attention can break it down for you coz I'm really not in the mood.

cm5597 not sure what the point of your post was. I already admitted I misread Claudia's post and apologized so you telling me that's not what she said is redundant.

Also I don't know how you can assume I don't know that resistance can be used to maintain tone. Aren't you the same person who keeps pointing out that I'm discouraging people from doing resistance training while I do it on Carolyn's program, prompting me to echo myself ad nauseum and say that I am not saying not to do resistance at all, but rather to start with toning and add resistance later like I, Eva, Deb all did? What we disagree on is the fact that resistance training is a good starting point for anyone who's never done face exercises. You think it is, I don't. And I'm happy to agree to disagree on that point.

As for faces changing when one is in their 50's due to menopause, this hasn't been what I've witnessed in Carolyn or in Eva.

Carolyn's face at 22:

Carolyn's face at 46:

Carolyn's face at 53:

Carolyn's face at 59 or 60:

And you can see Carolyn at 65 in this clip

In fact, TheresaMary once pointed out in another discussion that it was Carolyn's younger photos that showed much change; the older photos don't show much change--which is to be expected of a good program, I'd think. Because once the sag has been fixed and lines smoothed out, then what else is there to do but maintain those results.

Eva doesn't seem to have lost fullness in her face either (clip taken last year), and in fact, if someone told us her profile on her original book could've been taken a year or so ago and we'd not be any the wiser or realize it is was actually taken over 20 years ago.

In fact, it is believed that face exercises can prevent bone loss and so it's not unusual for the deterioration one would expect due to menopause to not happen to those who do face exercises to the extent one would expect. Here's an article on that: http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/bone-loss-and-skin-remodeling

Which is why Carolyn and Eva who started face exercises in their 50's didn't change to look different but looked the same only with better tone where there wasn't and maintained the same shape of their faces. Their lower faces didn't become gaunt with passing time.

Oh as for instructors only taking photos from an angle to get flattering ones, that all goes out the window when you look at video clips as has already been implied. The clip I just posted of Carolyn can be viewed in full screen and you can see how firm her skin is. Her neck doesn't even have the slightest hint of rings and not just when she's looking up but even when she's got her chin down. Also the jawline is very well defined...and there isn't a continuous line from jaw to neck as you might see in some trainers. This can also be seen in the Today Show video...clearly a firmness that is evident. Someone recently posted a link to The Firmer video in which again she was not at all trying to be cute but demonstrating an exercise no holds barred and again the firmness of her skin was evident and again, her face shape still has the fullness she had in her mid-fifties. BTW the two new videos showing Carolyn doing her exercises were taken in the last couple of months. You can't get anymore recent than that.

The same goes for Eva whose jawline is so defined that it doesn't matter what angle you look at her from, you can see the perfect tone lift of that jawline! So while menopause does age people, it seems face exercises do make a difference and prevent deterioration.

free skin care · Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:33 pm

Correction: The Firmer video I believe is less than a month old...so that's a pretty recent image of Carolyn, wouldn't you agree, cm5597?

I'm not sure why you're asking me to ask Carolyn to post a recent photo. She's a member of this forum so you can send her PM and ask her yourself. Plus I'm pretty happy with what she's posted so far so I have no need to see anymore than what is available.

free skin care · Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:26 pm

Nonie aka AD wrote:

I already admitted I misread Claudia's post and apologized so you telling me that's not what she said is redundant.

Actually, you only partially corrected yourself, then went on to demand a photo of Claudia's sister that showed that she hasn't change in appearance in the past 20 years. You completely missed the point.

The point is that as Claudia, Carolyn, and virtually all other facial experts have been clear about, you can't stop aging; you only age more slowly. Take your own photos as an example:

And roughly 20 years later:

So you've aged in that period, just much more slowly than someone who has not done facial exercises. That was my point, and it was not directed just at you. I do say things for other people's benefits, too Smile

Nonie aka AD wrote:

Also I don't know how you can assume I don't know that resistance can be used to maintain tone.

Because (1) you asked a question that demonstrated you didn't understand this point, and (2) you misquoted me.

Nonie aka AD wrote:

What we disagree on is the fact that resistance training is a good starting point for anyone who's never done face exercises. You think it is, I don't. And I'm happy to agree to disagree on that point.

Yes, and we keep going around in circles. I'm happy to agree to disagree and leave it as it. Meaning you have certainly have you right to recommend that in your opinion, people should start with isometric exercises before proceeding to resistance exercises. And I'm free to express my opinion that it really doesn't matter if one does toning exercises first or not, but the main thing to recognize is that if you want to increase fullness in an area, you need resistance exercises. If you don't, you can go for either.

However, if you keep saying that it's absolutely impossible for anyone young to have good results from doing resistance training--with or without doing isometric exercises beforehand--then I'll keep pointing out that there is photographic evidence that you're wrong. Like until Sean posted his photo, you kept insinuating that he might have damage to his face--which he just flatly proved was wrong.

Finally, sometimes you say that young people shouldn't do resistance exercises at all. And other times, you say that people shouldn't do resistance exercises without doing toning exercises first. Now I realize that you may just be using the first as shorthand for the second, but it's not always clear. Especially when you then say things to insinuate that Sean and Claudia may have damaged their face or have no benefit. And Claudia started with resistance exercises first. This makes it hard to discuss these points with you because it seems like the rules are always slightly changing. Moving forward, can you stop using shorthand and be more clear on this point on which of the above two points you hold in your opinion? Like not just say it once but use consistent language always, so we don't have to guess what you mean.

Regarding this photo of Carolyn, but it is 6 years old! And when I try to zoom in, there may or may not be wrinkles around her eyes....but again I can't tell because the resolution is poor. In the Firmer video, she mostly shows her neck. I tried several times, but couldn't get a good still of just the front of her face. If someone else could get one, please do post it here in this thread. I don't see why she can't provide a single photo that's front on, in high resolution (instead of all the low resolution), and taken in the past two years. Or hopefully, Carolyn will post one herself Smile

I know you think that Carolyn looks great--and I suspect she does too, but I would like to see exactly how much she has accomplished (and has not accomplished) rather than being stuck with fuzzy or weird angle photos. All the other main facial exercises gurus have done this and provided realistic photos showing what they have and have not accomplished. What I don't get is why you would shy away from asking Carolyn, because refusing to ask her only weakens your case.

So how about it? Will you or someone else who does CFF kindly ask Carolyn to update her 6-years-old front photo with a new high resolution one?

free skin care · Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:13 pm

cm5597, are you sure about Nonie's age in the photos. The last one looks much younger than the first one. Was there a mix-up?

free skin care · Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:23 pm

When did I insinuate Sean had damage in his face cm5597? All I said is his evasiveness makes one wonder what it is he's hiding, and that's a fact. Period. Sean has talked about his accident and I've always said that his face looked good and by his own admission, Eva's program had helped him get his face back as can be seen in his avatar. So I have no idea where you get the idea I expected his face to be damaged. In fact, when he once used the accident in answer to a question about his photos, I told him to drop it coz that his face looks fine and has been fine for years, thanks for face exercises.
I do find it funny how you read so much into what I say. I have not insinuated anything but have asked WHY the evasiveness--and I wasn't the only who wondered that. Period. My question to you: why the assumptions? Guilty er paranoid much?

And no I didn't miss the point at all in Claudia's post. I see the point y'all are selling...only that's not the point I'm interested in buying. What I want to see is before and after photos of FE by the veterans of FE who have been doing resistance training from a young age so I can see how their faces changed. Audrea would be a better example of this as she has 20 years of "aggressive training" (I mistakenly thought that was Claudia) which is why I said I'd be interested in seeing her photos. YOU are the one who missed my point...clearly.

I'm not sure why you felt a need to add the disclaimer that you were not talking about me when you say that people age but more slowly with face exercises. I didn't doubt that; in fact, isn't this something I state all the time? But do you notice that I didn't get gaunt like some people seem to get after just a year of Facialbuilding--which is supposed to add mass to the face per your claim. That's 20 years later and my face has not lost its mass. Just like Eva...my face didn't get gaunt. Just like Carolyn, my face didn't get gaunt. You have used the word "maintainence" so I'm assuming we're both talking about the same thing (muscle tone/size?) since we both agree you do not maintain a young face but it ages well. I pinched my sister's cheeks when she was about 20 and I was just beginning my 30's and rather than pinching a thin skin like I found in my peers, I'd pinch a thickness like she had which is the tone I'm talking about; there was also no sag no lines or shadows. So I know Eva's program helped me MAINTAIN muscle tone. And Carolyn's program has helped me regain it again so that the sag I got from FE is no more! So now I'm MAINTAINING that tone with Carolyn's program.

Whenever I have written anything about people NOT aging with face exercises, I was always referring to what *I* thought at the time I found Eva's book and discovered there was such a thing as face exercises when I didn't really know anything. Of course I know now that one doesn't continue looking the same age but just looks good for their age and I've posted this soooo many times here, on YTF, on SkinBio etc. So I don't understand why you are preaching to the choir what is commonsense knowledge to all who know about face exercises. If anything, I've posted ad nauseum that by starting face exercises young, I was able to maintain the muscle tone I had when I was younger so that I never had sag or any wrinkles by the time I was 35. And I'm not talking about when holding a straight face--which may people in their 30's can accomplish with ease--I am talking about when I smiled there was no puffiness, no sag, no crows' feet. I've never said I kept my face looking the same as it did when I was 20, unless I was talking about my jawline. In fact the tone of my upper eyelids actually improved and was better in my 30's than at 20. So clearly I'm not so dimwitted as to have needed that demonstration or disclaimer. LOL

What question did I ask that demonstrated I didn't understand that resistance training can help with tone cm5597? Please DO tell! And why in the name of all that is sane would *I* be doing a program that involves resistance training when I clearly don't want to build anything but just maintain tone? Oy vey!

LOL @ partially correcting myself when I responded to Claudia. OK, if you say so. Unlike you, I do answer the question asked. I was responding to Claudia's question. So you repeating that what I just admitted to is so was pretty redundant.

Oh and it's funny you are saying that we can agree to disagree on when one should do resistance training, yet in every discussion where this topic comes up, when I post my side of the story, instead of you stepping in and posting yours apart from mine, it is you who starts off by pointing out where you think *I* am wrong. So thus begins the back and forth. In every thread where I have shared what *I* believe, you haven't just come in and shared your opinion; instead you've felt a need to quote me and challenge what I've posted. So erhmm...it would be nice if you did practice what you preach, ie live and let live.

You missed the point of me posting those photos of Carolyn. Confused

All of them were showing that even after menopause, Carolyn's shape of face did not change--because you seemed to imply that is a given that the face should change--when IMO a program could be the reason for change, just like different exercises give different results (Some people have compared face exercise to Yoga/Callanetics vs Bodybuilding/Weight lifting). I posted Carolyn's photos to show that face exercise can counteract the change you are implying must happen with menopause which is also why I posted the link about bone loss. So I don't know what your point of stating that particular photo of Carolyn's was 6 years old was. (BTW, have you noticed that ALL of Deb's photos except the the incomplete ones are all taken at an angle? That has never bothered me at all, because I'm not a nitpicker, BTW. Someone who doesn't do face exercises could take photos at angles and I'd still be able to see sag!) You gave the video clip of Deb's as a good example and I gave you videos clips (plural) of Carolyn...so I don't know what exactly you're looking for.

Honestly cm5597 I have never had so much difficulty communicating with someone as I do with you. So I'll try once more to tell you the same thing I've said over and over and over and ONLY to you because no one else seems as lost as you are on this point (And BTW, no one else seems confused about my stand on resistance training so I am of the persuasion that the failure to communicate here lies in your lack of comprehension which is something I can't help. So far, PMs I get to follow up on this redundant exchange between you and me on my stand on resistance training clearly prove that you're the only one lost here. If I were you, I'd just ignore me if you still don't follow after my attempt below...after all, what use is my opinion to you? It's not like you want to follow it, so just disregard what I say. Those who follow my explanation thank me can decide to take it or leave it. Please refer to this post if you're still lost:

1) Nonie's gospel: NO ONE should start face exercises with resistance training. Everyone should start with toning and add resistance later after their muscles are well prepared for it. It's what I did and it's what the instructors I believe did and there is proof it works.

2) Nonie's gospel: No one with a youthful face--meaning it has tone and mass and would be called "baby face" in a heartbeat by anyone looking at it, should do resistance training. Toning is all they need, period. They most certainly should not indulge in any aggressive resistance training AT ALL! Gentle resistance may be added much later but if toning alone is working now, why fix what isn't broken? Better safe than sorry, and I know toning has never hurt anyone.

Oh and I do want to remind you that "isometric exercises" can involve resistance so using that phrase as the opposite of "resistance training" is confusing as we established in a discussion you were involved in not too long ago.

I'm baffled: Why cm5597 are you asking me or someone who does CFF to ask Carolyn to get something that YOU yourself want from her? Why don't you ask her yourself? Are you afraid of her or something?

free skin care · Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:40 pm

Marie-Andrée wrote:

cm5597, are you sure about Nonie's age in the photos. The last one looks much younger than the first one. Was there a mix-up?

Marie-Andrée that is so kind of you to say. cm5597 is right about my photos. The first one was taken before I ever did face exercises when I was 20. The second photo was taken in 2009, when I was 39, so it's actually 19 years later and after two years of CFF.

free skin care · Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:44 pm

Nonie aka AD wrote:

When did I insinuate Sean had damage in his face cm5597? All I said is his evasiveness makes one wonder what it is he's hiding

Yes, that is part of the insinuating that I am referring to. You did it multiple times, in a goading way, rather than a nice and genuinely curious way. That's why it did not come across well.

Nonie aka AD wrote:

And no I didn't miss the point at all in Claudia's post. I see the point y'all are selling...only that's not the point I'm interested in buying. What I want to see is before and after photos of FE by the veterans of FE who have been doing resistance training from a young age so I can see how their faces changed. Audrea would be a better example of this as she has 20 years of "aggressive training" (I mistakenly thought that was Claudia) which is why I said I'd be interested in seeing her photos. YOU are the one who missed my point...clearly.

I totally agree that it would be nice to see a photo montage of both Claudia and her sister over the years.

I am just saying that no one is able to stop time...but it sounds like we are in agreement now.

Nonie aka AD wrote:

Of course I know now that one doesn't continue looking the same age but just looks good for their age ... So I don't understand why you are preaching to the choir what is commonsense

Because you asked to see photos of Claudia (before you corrected yourself) showing that she had not aged at all in the past 20 years. You gave the impression that you thought it was possible not to age at all when doing facial exercises. This is what I mean when I say that it would be more helpful if you were careful in using language...so that people don't misunderstand you.

Nonie aka AD wrote:

What question did I ask that demonstrated I didn't understand that resistance training can help with tone cm5597?

You asked Claudia why she was doing a resistance training program for maintenance if resistance training builds mass.

Nonie aka AD wrote:

Honestly cm5597 I have never had so much difficulty communicating with someone as I do with you. So I'll try once more to tell you the same thing I've said over and over and over and ONLY to you because no one else seems as lost as you are on this point (And BTW, no one else seems confused about my stand on resistance training so I am of the persuasion that the failure to communicate here lies in your lack of comprehension which is something I can't help. So far, PMs I get to follow up on this redundant exchange between you and me on my stand on resistance training clearly prove that you're the only one lost here. If I were you, I'd just ignore me if you still don't follow after my attempt below...after all, what use is my opinion to you? It's not like you want to follow it, so just disregard what I say. Those who follow my explanation thank me can decide to take it or leave it. Please refer to this post if you're still lost:

1) Nonie's gospel: NO ONE should start face exercises with resistance training. Everyone should start with toning and add resistance later after their muscles are well prepared for it. It's what I did and it's what the instructors I believe did and there is proof it works.

Please, there's really no need to be not nice. It is confusing when you are frequently imprecise with language. I do appreciate you clarifying Nonie's gospel. That's all I was requesting.

And please correct me if I'm wrong, but for point #1, you mean everyone, regardless of age, correct? And what about regardless of muscle group? What I mean is say, someone did Facercise (a combo of light resistance and no resistance toning exercises), which doesn't target all the muscles of the face. Then let's say you want to exercise the risorius. Since Carole's program doesn't directly target this muscle, would you recommend that this person not do a resistance exercise for this muscle until they have done a toning exercise for this muscle for a while? Or, would it be okay since they have done at least some toning exercises for other muscles of the face?

Nonie aka AD wrote:

I'm baffled: Why cm5597 are you asking me or someone who does CFF to ask Carolyn to get something that YOU yourself want from her? Why don't you ask her yourself? Are you afraid of her or something?

Do you think she would be willing to post if *I* were the one who asked? I'm thinking that she'd be wayyy more receptive and likely to do it if you asked. But if you are not willing, do you have a way of contacting her directly? Can you tell me her EDS name?

Marie-Andree wrote:

cm5597, are you sure about Nonie's age in the photos. The last one looks much younger than the first one. Was there a mix-up?

Nope, no mix-up Smile

That's Nonie hard work--well deserved. Glad that it's inspiring.

free skin care · Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:59 pm

ClaudiaFE wrote:

SeanySeanUK wrote:

Haven’t seen it but I’m sure it’s a compliment!

Scroll down to the picture similar photo

http://blog.zap2it.com/ithappenedlastnight/2009/11/bones-sweets-and-dr-wyatt-puzzle-out-the-boothbrennan-relationship.html

He's a total doll! And I love his Character on Bones.

YES... a compliment!

I see some similarities between Sean and this gentleman, but I sincerely believe that Sean is much more handsome. Very Happy

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