Diet and Skin Health- Raw? Vegetarian? Paleo?
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free skin care · Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:02 pm

Dr. Joseph Mercola believes in nutritional typing to find the optimal way to eat. Everyone is different. Some people are protein types and need a fair amount of protein to feel and be healthy. Some are carb types and don't do very well with too much protein. I think I'm a "mixed" type - everything in moderation - proteins, carbs, fats.

Here's Dr. Mercola on You Tube talking about nutritional typing. There is no "one size fits all" diet - which is very reassuring.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WrrwdqdZv4

Cheers, Bess

free skin care · Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:22 pm

Bessie wrote:

Dr. Joseph Mercola believes in nutritional typing to find the optimal way to eat. Everyone is different. Some people are protein types and need a fair amount of protein to feel and be healthy. Some are carb types and don't do very well with too much protein. I think I'm a "mixed" type - everything in moderation - proteins, carbs, fats.

Here's Dr. Mercola on You Tube talking about nutritional typing. There is no "one size fits all" diet - which is very reassuring.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WrrwdqdZv4

Cheers, Bess

How would this approach have worked a hundred years ago, or even fifty years ago. Obviously, the world is a small place now and goods are imported and exported all around the world. But historically people have only been able to eat what was available to them in their own part of the world. That is why, even today, we have different cuisines - Indian, Italian, Asian, French, Lebanese etc etc.

I would say, overall, my own parent's diet wasn't that good. Back then people consumed allot of fat - my mother cooked everything in lard. They also tended to eat fatty meat cuts. Then they went through the war years when everything was rationed and allot of the main food groups were in short supply. But then they didn't eat highly processed or junk food. Anyway, they were never ill and lived to a grand old age.

How are you supposed to find out what nutritional type you are? What if you're Asian or Italian and you're told you can't eat carbs?

free skin care · Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:29 pm

Keliu wrote:

Luminosity wrote:

In terms of nutrient absorption, fiber is not your friend. For all other purposes, yes, fiber is awesome.

Are you saying that eating fiber prevents nutrient absorption? That makes no sense to me.

Juicing and blending have different health benefits... I'm not arguing against blending but for healing and nutrient absorption, then juicing is the way to go.

Here's a quote from http://www.juicing-for-health.com/juicing-vs-blending.html and if you Google blending vs. juicing you will see tons of information.

"[With Juicing] There is no fiber. You drink the juices and there is very little effort by the body to immediately assimilate the vitamins/minerals from the juices and distribute to the cells immediately for nourishment and healing. This is the exact reason for drinking juices, to get the most nutrients (up to 99% absorption) out of the vitamins and minerals."

free skin care · Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:19 pm

Keliu wrote:

Luminosity wrote:

In terms of nutrient absorption, fiber is not your friend. For all other purposes, yes, fiber is awesome.

Are you saying that eating fiber prevents nutrient absorption? That makes no sense to me.

From the Mayo Clinic article "Juicing Fruits and Vegetables: Some Touted Benefits are Far-fetched":

The Mayo Clinic Health Letter covers juicing claims that don't stand up to scrutiny. Some of those claims and the corresponding facts are:

The body absorbs more nutrients from juice — The theory here is that fiber, often filtered out of juice, is too taxing on the digestive system, and that fiber impairs digestion of fruit and vegetable nutrients. The opposite is true. The digestive system needs fiber to function properly and to remain healthy.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/news2011-mchi/6167.html

free skin care · Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:51 pm

I would think the fiber would also slow the absorption of the sugar into your system. This would be a good thing.

free skin care · Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:53 pm

Keliu wrote:

Bessie wrote:

Dr. Joseph Mercola believes in nutritional typing to find the optimal way to eat. Everyone is different. Some people are protein types and need a fair amount of protein to feel and be healthy. Some are carb types and don't do very well with too much protein. I think I'm a "mixed" type - everything in moderation - proteins, carbs, fats.

Here's Dr. Mercola on You Tube talking about nutritional typing. There is no "one size fits all" diet - which is very reassuring.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WrrwdqdZv4

Cheers, Bess

How would this approach have worked a hundred years ago, or even fifty years ago. Obviously, the world is a small place now and goods are imported and exported all around the world. But historically people have only been able to eat what was available to them in their own part of the world. That is why, even today, we have different cuisines - Indian, Italian, Asian, French, Lebanese etc etc.

I would say, overall, my own parent's diet wasn't that good. Back then people consumed allot of fat - my mother cooked everything in lard. They also tended to eat fatty meat cuts. Then they went through the war years when everything was rationed and allot of the main food groups were in short supply. But then they didn't eat highly processed or junk food. Anyway, they were never ill and lived to a grand old age.

How are you supposed to find out what nutritional type you are? What if you're Asian or Italian and you're told you can't eat carbs?

Just take the test!

http://products.mercola.com/nutritional-typing/

Seriously, we should be suspect of anyone who makes the following claims:

In addition to eating the right quality foods for your body, believe it or not, we discovered that it is not enough just to make the right food choices... It is equally important to eat your foods at each meal in the right order! Many leading Protein Types should eat their meat first. Carb Types should eat their vegetable first. Mixed Types should eat their meat and vegetable together.

free skin care · Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:58 pm

Lacy53 wrote:

In addition to eating the right quality foods for your body, believe it or not, we discovered that it is not enough just to make the right food choices... It is equally important to eat your foods at each meal in the right order! Many leading Protein Types should eat their meat first. Carb Types should eat their vegetable first. Mixed Types should eat their meat and vegetable together.

Absolutely ridiculous!

free skin care · Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:25 pm

Keliu wrote:

Thanks Jom, I read the links about the coffee, peanuts and tuna - but I'm choosing to look the other way!. I don't think it matters what the food is, somewhere, someone will tell you it'll kill you! I know that larger fish can contain mercury, but the Japanese have been eating it raw for centuries - and theirs is considered the healthiest diet in the world. Same with cutting out cheese and red wine - they haven't done the French any harm. For me, it's still "everything in moderation".

I'm also not into the "alkalizing" thing either - or detoxing. Our stomachs contain acids so that our food can break down. And our kidneys are our body's built-in detox machine.

In fact, I don't believe in any of the fad stuff. Humans have survived for centuries by eating what they could either grow, hunt or gather. The main worry the human race has had throughout history is avoiding starvation. Now we have an abundance of food around us and we simply eat too much of it.

Totally agree with you that someone is always saying something is bad for you. I'm on Kimberly Snyder's email list and last week she sent out an email saying that you should only eat fresh eggs. I thought it was a little extreme. I don't have room in my apartment for a chicken and I don't live near a farm so I guess I'm out of luck. Maybe they have them at the farmers markets I keep telling myself I need to go to.

I look the other way often myself. In fact Dr. Fuhrman advocates for gluten free but I don't think there's anything wrong with whole grains - in moderation. I do believe in staying away from white foods (white bread, pasta, white rice) and processed food but I don't always (whole wheat pasta and brown rice pasta just don't do it for me). I just posted the Furhman diet because I think it's a good example of an ideal well-balanced diet. I use it as a guide.

I'm usually against detoxing too but I did do Dr. Fuhrman's two week cleanse and I loved it. I thought it was different than traditional cleanses that are just liquids. You're allowed to eat two healthy meals a day and healthy snacks. The first few days were precarious with headaches and mood swings but on day 4 I woke up and felt full of energy and clear headed. It really helped clean me out and jumpstarted a change in eating habits for me. I felt great.

free skin care · Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:57 pm

Below is an article that contains a very interesting video from a former raw vegan:

http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/warning-raw-veganism-will-steal-your-health/

free skin care · Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:15 pm

Lacy53 wrote:

Keliu wrote:

Luminosity wrote:

In terms of nutrient absorption, fiber is not your friend. For all other purposes, yes, fiber is awesome.

Are you saying that eating fiber prevents nutrient absorption? That makes no sense to me.

From the Mayo Clinic article "Juicing Fruits and Vegetables: Some Touted Benefits are Far-fetched":

The Mayo Clinic Health Letter covers juicing claims that don't stand up to scrutiny. Some of those claims and the corresponding facts are:

The body absorbs more nutrients from juice — The theory here is that fiber, often filtered out of juice, is too taxing on the digestive system, and that fiber impairs digestion of fruit and vegetable nutrients. The opposite is true. The digestive system needs fiber to function properly and to remain healthy.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/news2011-mchi/6167.html

For every opinion there is a study... This doesn't "prove" anything to me, personally. Direct experimentation on my own body has shown me what works best for my system. From my own experiments in blending green smoothies as well as juicing the same healthy ingredients, juicing makes me feel awesome. I never crash, I do not suffer hunger pangs, and the end product is simply more enjoyable. For me, juicing works brilliantly.

free skin care · Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:04 am

Hi Lacy53
Good article find, and when I’m referring to the acidity I’m talking in similar terms as to the author of the very article – about the body’s ph and am in agreement with what they say re diet having an effect, but where they kind of go a bit wrong is in their criticism of how to treat over acidity. They’re spot on when they talk about urine/saliva as these are usually both different readings (especially when done prior to a meal and after one for example). There are some great articles on the internet but you’ll also find a hoard of conflicting advice out there. To me, the old saying “you are what you eat” is a little bit factual but it is not the full and complete story. It is not so much just what we eat, but what we’re able to absorb from the foods we’re eating.
A lot of the trouble with acidity really comes from an over indulgence in foods which cause the body to become acidic (and then it becomes challenged trying to make itself slightly alkaline). It is an incredibly complex subject and one that I’m continuing to learn about, but it is like most things if the body is in balance its great, but when it is not you don’t necessary have an alarm bell ringing but there can be some signs that go unnoticed. Interestingly enough with parasites that’s one element of the conversation only and when you think about the foods we’re buying in supermarkets nowadays its very easy to see how our body’s may deal with things like parasites, but also what is also important it the bacteria our bodies hold too – sometimes when we’re eating not so good foods we’re killing the good and bad guys and our digestive systems need both!
Powerful blood is blood that’s completely healthy, where the vessels are strong, healthy, moving freely and not squashed or clumped together and good ratio of red and white blood cells. You can see this under microscopes and there are both medical tests available and there are some brilliant images out there. I just searched Microscopy images on yahoo.com and there is a beautiful image that I’m unable to post a link to, but you can see the cells are all a similar circular shape, they aren’t clumped or stuck together and they’re all the rich dark colour.

Lacy53 wrote:

What does all this "alkalizing" and "acidifying" talk mean? What exactly are you effecting (blood; stomach/digestive system; urine; "the body")? Is everyone using these terms in the same way? Have any of you read any science-based articles like this:

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2006/09/your_friday_dose_of_woo_acid_base_or_woo_1.php

Sean: parasites ... really? Oh my!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_parasites_of_humans

What is "powerful blood"?

Fiber doesn’t prevent absorption but it SLOWS it down substantially. We do need fibre, but when you’re juicing you actually remove the fibre so it can be absorbed faster by the body. In a smoothie where there is fibre, the nutrients just have a longer ride as such and a lot of nutrients loose their freshness over time so any delay in their absorption isn’t as beneficial as say having an immediate juice which can be absorbed faster. Does that make better sense?

Keliu wrote:

Luminosity wrote:

In terms of nutrient absorption, fiber is not your friend. For all other purposes, yes, fiber is awesome.

Are you saying that eating fiber prevents nutrient absorption? That makes no sense to me.

free skin care · Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:49 am

SeanySeanUK wrote:

Fiber doesn’t prevent absorption but it SLOWS it down substantially. We do need fibre, but when you’re juicing you actually remove the fibre so it can be absorbed faster by the body. In a smoothie where there is fibre, the nutrients just have a longer ride as such and a lot of nutrients loose their freshness over time so any delay in their absorption isn’t as beneficial as say having an immediate juice which can be absorbed faster. Does that make better sense?

Keliu wrote:

Luminosity wrote:

In terms of nutrient absorption, fiber is not your friend. For all other purposes, yes, fiber is awesome.

Are you saying that eating fiber prevents nutrient absorption? That makes no sense to me.

So what you're saying is that, prior to the invention of the juicer, the human race was suffering from slow absorption of nutrients. Which would also mean that all those people who don't own a juicer or who still exist in a tribal lifestyle are also not absorbing their nutrients quickly enough - which also means that they have lost their freshness.

free skin care · Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:04 am

I've got to say that I shouldn't be participating in this thread because I don't approve of "niche" diets. I just think we should eat healthy, fresh food - full stop.

I just wonder how someone who's on a special kind of diet feeds their family. When I was a child, my family all ate the same thing at the dinner table and it was a place where the day's events were discussed. I always did this with my family too, whatever I cooked, the whole family ate - together. I never bought one tin of baby food for my children. They would sit at the table in their highchairs and whatever I was eating, I would mash up and give to them.

But I think families have now lost this practice. Everyone eats at different times, just grabbing something out of the fridge and sticking it in the microwave. There's no sitting at a table, dining. And I think that's a sad thing.

free skin care · Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:18 am

Sorry Keliu, I just want to clarify something here. You said:

“Are you saying that eating fiber prevents nutrient absorption? That makes no sense to me”

And so I was trying to help it make sense by answering:

“Fiber doesn’t prevent absorption but it SLOWS it down substantially. We do need fibre, but when you’re juicing you actually remove the fibre so it can be absorbed faster by the body. In a smoothie where there is fibre, the nutrients just have a longer ride as such and a lot of nutrients loose their freshness over time so any delay in their absorption isn’t as beneficial as say having an immediate juice which can be absorbed faster. Does that make better sense?”

You then say:

“So what you're saying is that, prior to the invention of the juicer, the human race was suffering from slow absorption of nutrients. Which would also mean that all those people who don't own a juicer or who still exist in a tribal lifestyle are also not absorbing their nutrients quickly enough - which also means that they have lost their freshness.”

My messages weren’t a discussion about the human race prior to the invention of the juicer as I think that’s a great conversation but it’s a particularly long one because you really have to look at all the factors involved. I mean there are major differences between tribal lifestyles (and I never at any point suggested that they are not absorbing their nutrients quickly enough at all) but my messages are with a focus on the diets of the Western world on why juices can be more beneficial than smoothies. Looking at this in greater depth you would have to say that prior to the invention of the juicer, most of the peoples lives weren’t so disrupted with things and of course the biggest example is technology and the attacks from things like screen radiation on our bodies etc. It is not by any means to say that people didn’t work, or deal with stresses back then, they most certainly did but it was a much different kind of stress than in comparison so the comparing isn’t what I was trying to do.

As I said, we need fibre for sure, but if someone who say is in a Western part of the world, and working a daily 9-5 week, and is eating foods that are heavily processed then they may not be getting all the nutrients they need, but likewise they may do too, its just throwing some food out there for thought pure and simply and I figure if someone isn’t or doesn’t feel they are then juicing can be an option worth exploring.

Hope that helps clarify things a little!

free skin care · Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:25 am

I've got to say that I shouldn't be participating in this thread because I don't approve of "niche" diets. I just think we should eat healthy, fresh food - full stop.

I’m in agreement with you on this, we need good healthy, fresh food for sure, but it doesn’t mean that someone who has been eating say a diet which doesn’t contain just healthy fresh food is going to suddenly be able to absorb or digest sufficiently health fresh food when they first move over to such a diet (I actually hate that word because its kind of thought as being a negative when in reality its really about nourishing our bodies to enable them to do the job they need to do).

I just wonder how someone who's on a special kind of diet feeds their family. When I was a child, my family all ate the same thing at the dinner table and it was a place where the day's events were discussed. I always did this with my family too, whatever I cooked, the whole family ate - together. I never bought one tin of baby food for my children. They would sit at the table in their highchairs and whatever I was eating, I would mash up and give to them.

But I think families have now lost this practice. Everyone eats at different times, just grabbing something out of the fridge and sticking it in the microwave. There's no sitting at a table, dining. And I think that's a sad thing.

Again agree 100% and I think that’s the part which I was getting at with the recommendation of smoothies, because society nowadays is encouraging people to pick something up at the market from the fridge, put it in the fridge and then microwave it and eat it on the go. The microwaved meal isn’t going to be nourishing to the body, nor is it going to have nutrients in it after being cooked, so this is really where juicing comes in because the juices can be absorbed even in a person has been eating heavily processed foods without issue. However if a person was to start smoothies in place of juicing they could find themselves with several issues with things like bloating, feeling heavy. Whilst the smoothie will without doubt have goodies they need in it, the fibre will prevent the nutrients being absorbed as quickly and that’s the crux for me. However its like most things, juicing and smoothies aren’t the only way, but to me because they come from food its going to be more easier for the body to use it and probably closer to the body’s natural chemistry, but I can appreciate some people want to just pop a pill. Its not to say any one situation is right/wrong and the same thing will work for everyone but to me it’s a more holistic way of working with the body.

free skin care · Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:01 am

Luminosity wrote:

Juicing and blending have different health benefits... I'm not arguing against blending but for healing and nutrient absorption, then juicing is the way to go.

Here's a quote from http://www.juicing-for-health.com/juicing-vs-blending.html and if you Google blending vs. juicing you will see tons of information.

"[With Juicing] There is no fiber. You drink the juices and there is very little effort by the body to immediately assimilate the vitamins/minerals from the juices and distribute to the cells immediately for nourishment and healing. This is the exact reason for drinking juices, to get the most nutrients (up to 99% absorption) out of the vitamins and minerals."

Sorry but that link is opinion on a commercial site not unbiased evidence. Vitamins and minerals are micronutrients, extracting those at the expense of fibre (a macronutrient) is not extracting all the nutrients. I would be interested in published research on the health benefits of juicing over and above blending or eating whole produce for the general population. What do you mean by healing, for convalescents? Liquid diets are mainstream practice in those instances, based on not one study but many. However a wealth of research into the glycaemic index which shows that fast absorption of carbohydrates (sugars or carbs that are rapidly converted to sugars) is detrimental to health. Do you separate out the three macronutrients in all your meals and snacks?

Keliu: dietary fibre actually binds *some* nutrients, iron and fat soluble vitamins off the top of my head. This is likely to be a problem for those eating a poorly balanced diet, with a health condition that reduces absorption of nutrients in the gut or who need or choose to add fibre to meals.

free skin care · Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:46 am

You’re correct in that vitamins and minerals are micronutrients but no one is saying that you can get all the benefits from juicing things, simply that juicing them puts them in a readily more absorbable state than say a smoothie with fiber (because as you point out fibre binds iself to some nutrients). That’s the point that I think people are trying to make here and not understanding.

Now the sugars is a whole topic of conversation itself and its one I’ve been subjected to a lot more than the average person because I’m an insulin dependent diabetic and have been for over 25 plus years but I’ve been without complications despite all the so called myths that I was told when I was first diagnosed. So when I’m talking about juicing I’m not talking about juicing high glycemic fruits but vegetables that are going to provide nutrients in an accessible form that will be able to be digested and utilised by the body.

The real beauty of juicing is that you can juice several things at once and its time saving and nutrient dense than say having to sit down and eat the foods themselves (and again this isn’t saying that eating the foods isn’t a bad thing but if you’re like the average person time is a factor that there isn’t quite enough of in every day life).

I don’t think anyone is saying that juicing should replace eating whole produce either, because it can’t take the place of that and shouldn’t by any accounts however if a person has say eaten wheat or dairy and is eating a poorly balanced diet, then juicing is a great way of providing some nutrients in a readily accessible form that’s not going to tax the body into stress or take up a lot of resources to enable it to have the benefit of the nutrients in the juice. A great example here is of course the superior wheatgrass (and those of other grasses such as barley etc). Grass depending on how and where its grown is known to be one of the most nutrient dense things, as it is capable of absorbing all the nutrients accessible to it from the soil its grown in (which is unusual for plants – they don’t all do this) but it is capable of providing our bodies with chlorophyll, amino acids, minerals, vitamins and enzymes. Grass is also a long running food of both humans and animals and probably outdates wheat and other dairy products too. So in essence an advantage of juicing wheatgrass is that you’re going to get those very nutrients in a much more accessible form in a quick drink rather than sitting down and having to chew through a tray of the grass. I know which option I’d rather pick!

free skin care · Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:06 am

SeanySeanUK wrote:

A great example here is of course the superior wheatgrass (and those of other grasses such as barley etc). Grass depending on how and where its grown is known to be one of the most nutrient dense things, as it is capable of absorbing all the nutrients accessible to it from the soil its grown in (which is unusual for plants – they don’t all do this) but it is capable of providing our bodies with chlorophyll, amino acids, minerals, vitamins and enzymes. Grass is also a long running food of both humans and animals and probably outdates wheat and other dairy products too. So in essence an advantage of juicing wheatgrass is that you’re going to get those very nutrients in a much more accessible

And... When you read about paleo and primal diets you will find they recommend only GRASS FED meat sources. As grain fed tends to be an animal just fattened up, most likely on grains frull of pesticide and other ick. Whereas, the GrassFed animal, is not eating all that gook.

NOW, that assumes people aren't putting some freaky chemical on the grass to keep it in abundance.

The meats def. taste different. That's for sure. It has taken me a while to adjust to the flavor profiles. And grass fed is of course more expensive. Usually, and often hard to find.

free skin care · Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:15 am

Much like the Glycaemic Index, dietary acid load/ metabolic acidosis has been hijacked and b*st*rdised by authors of commercial diet books. So Lacy53 makes a good point, we should be discussing the literature! Embarassed

Not a comprehensive literature search, just a few full text articles with a couple of examples of the potential implications across the lifespan.

Diet, evolution and aging--the pathophysiologic effects of the post-agricultural inversion of the potassium-to-sodium and base-to-chloride ratios in the human diet (2001)
http://www.mendeley.com/research/original-contribution-diet-evolution-aging-pathophysiologic-effects-postagricultural-inversion-potassiumtosodium/
Dietary animal and plant protein and human bone health: a whole foods approach (2003)
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/133/3/862S.long
Standardizing terminology for estimating the diet-dependent net acid load to the metabolic system (2007)
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/137/6/1491.long
Alkaline diets favor lean tissue mass in older adults (2008)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2597402/?tool=pubmed
Plant based dietary supplement increases urinary pH (2008)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2585554/?tool=pubmed
Review: Diet-induced metabolic acidosis (2011)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21481501
The Alkaline Diet: Is There Evidence That an Alkaline pH Diet Benefits Health? (2012)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3195546/?tool=pubmed
Long-term dietary potential renal acid load during adolescence is prospectively associated with indices of nonalcoholic fatty liver disease in young women (2012)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22223573

HTH! Wink

free skin care · Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:21 am

SeanySeanUK wrote:

You’re correct in that vitamins and minerals are micronutrients but no one is saying that you can get all the benefits from juicing things, simply that juicing them puts them in a readily more absorbable state than say a smoothie with fiber (because as you point out fibre binds iself to some nutrients). That’s the point that I think people are trying to make here and not understanding.

Now the sugars is a whole topic of conversation itself and its one I’ve been subjected to a lot more than the average person because I’m an insulin dependent diabetic and have been for over 25 plus years but I’ve been without complications despite all the so called myths that I was told when I was first diagnosed. So when I’m talking about juicing I’m not talking about juicing high glycemic fruits but vegetables that are going to provide nutrients in an accessible form that will be able to be digested and utilised by the body. The real beauty of juicing is that you can juice several things at once and its time saving and nutrient dense than say having to sit down and eat the foods themselves (and again this isn’t saying that eating the foods isn’t a bad thing but if you’re like the average person time is a factor that there isn’t quite enough of in every day life).

I don’t think anyone is saying that juicing should replace eating whole produce either, because it can’t take the place of that and shouldn’t by any accounts however if a person has say eaten wheat or dairy and is eating a poorly balanced diet, then juicing is a great way of providing some nutrients in a readily accessible form that’s not going to tax the body into stress or take up a lot of resources to enable it to have the benefit of the nutrients in the juice. A great example here is of course the superior wheatgrass (and those of other grasses such as barley etc). Grass depending on how and where its grown is known to be one of the most nutrient dense things, as it is capable of absorbing all the nutrients accessible to it from the soil its grown in (which is unusual for plants – they don’t all do this) but it is capable of providing our bodies with chlorophyll, amino acids, minerals, vitamins and enzymes. Grass is also a long running food of both humans and animals and probably outdates wheat and other dairy products too. So in essence an advantage of juicing wheatgrass is that you’re going to get those very nutrients in a much more accessible form in a quick drink rather than sitting down and having to chew through a tray of the grass. I know which option I’d rather pick!

I was correcting the wording of Luminosity's quote not the entire concept of juicing nor your posts. To me that quote implies that micronutrients are more important, more nutritious, more healthy, than macronutrients which is simply not the case. Whole produce is nutrient-dense, juices (wheatgrass or otherwise) are micronutrient-dense. A multi-vitamin/ mineral pill or two is micronutrient-dense but nobody on either side of the debate is suggesting that makes a fine breakfast. For a healthy individual digesting food is not taxing, it is what we evolved to do and it 'fires up' the metabolism. Fibre does indeed bind a proportion of some micronutrients, but this is taken into consideration in the research and in the nutrition guidelines because it is intake of whole produce which is most strongly associated with the reduction in lifestyle diseases. Sorry but I don't see the logic in referring to a modern processing method (juicing) in the same breath as hunter-gatherer diets.

I don't agree that juicing is a good supplement for those 'too busy' to consume a balanced diet, because the remainder of that person's diet is likely to be high glycaemic index/ easily digestible/ processed/ fibre-stripped foods. Juicing is not time saving over blending (smoothie or soup) which IMO is a fairer and more realistic comparison than sitting down to a plate of vegetables. I also don't buy that the average UK or US citizen is too busy to prepare and eat wholefoods, it is simply a case of prioritising and of knowing how to 'cheat'. I have my nutrition clients eat canned, frozen, dried as well as fresh fruit and veg, also a blender and slow cooker for soups, smoothies, one pot/ veg rich meals and to batch cook. IMO the people most likely to be willing to juice veggies but not fruit are ones that are switched on to the importance of healthy eating anyway, like yourself. IMO if you asked average Joe whether they, their partner and children would prefer to consume fresh vegetable and wheatgrass juice or a fruit and live yoghurt smoothie, the answer would be the latter. If you ask health professionals which they would prefer their patients to have for breakfast I suspect it would also be the latter.

A brief comment on your reference to diabetes: nutrition research has moved on apace in the last twenty five years so I do not think it fair to cast aspersions on the dietetics advice you were given 'back in the day'. Having said that it is a constant source of frustration how few of my 'at risk' clients (diabetes, PCOS, morbidly obese, insulin resistant etc) are told about the glycaemic index by professionals within the National Health Service. Sad

free skin care · Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:45 am

Oh ok, I wasn’t sure. No one is saying that juicing is just a good supplement for those “too busy” to consume a balanced diet but it can be helpful if someone is busy, but more importantly the real advantage of juicing is the nutrients are in an accessible form. That to me is ultimately what it boils down to. The problem with blending is that its not as immediate a hit as juice because of the fibre element and that’s not to say that fibre is bad, but if a persons intestines have been clogged up with wheat and a hoast of other goodies, then the body’s ability to absorb it is going to be compromised in some shape or form and therefore they’re not going to gain the full advantages of consuming a smoothie, but they will with the juice.

For most people, learning this stuff is where the challenge comes in because there is a lot of conflicting advices out there, and people can mistakeningly believe they are on a “good” diet which is a good diet but is just too challenging for their bodies at this moment in time. Likewise what everyone believes constitutes a “good” diet is different because we’re all starting out from different places and with different issues, but the idea of supplying the body with good supplies of nutrients in easily accessible forms is something that will usually help everyone, even those with digestive issues.

I agree people don’t know about the benefits of juicing vegetables, but also that’s because there is a huge power drive on the benefits of smoothies and all I’ve been advising people is not to think that one is better than the other because both have truly great advantages to them and compliment each other nicely but depending on where a person is starting out from, there is going to be different reactions to both. I’m sure some people will hate the idea of vegetable juices, but again that to me is all about what is combined and used and that comes from playing about with juicing. Juicing can be extremely tasteful and delightful and refreshing and after sleeping 8 hours upon waking my first priority is both hydrating my body but also giving it help to jump into action. If I awoke and tried to drink a heavy smoothie first thing I’m not convinced I would get the same benefits. I do drink smoothies, but for me the first morning hit of having nutrient rich vegetables and hydrating myself at the same time is an all round winner for me, but hey different strokes for different folks.

I’m well aware of the research on diabetes, but was purely pointing out that the advice given to me back in the day was faulty and even have helped teach doctors some things here in the UK. Things are gradually improving but I still get scared when I hear doctors give improper information. I know its come a very long way since then (I have personally been used by several UK authorities in their research and trials because my sugar levels and testing results have been good). I fully understand why there are problems with the medical research in the UK and know their hands are somewhat tied with what they’re having to treat and the space of time allotted but there are also good information sources now being passed due it has to be said to people like myself talking openly. Its not to say what I’ve done is going to or will work for everyone, but there’s been some very interesting and exciting things that they’re finding out and testing. Interestingly enough every doctor who has attempted to tell me about the glycaemic index always gets its wrong, likewise when they begin telling me about things about diabetes and get it wrong – its amazing how belief becomes fact.

free skin care · Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:27 am

I think where juicing is concerned the "everything in moderation" perspective is best. I think it's OK to maybe replace one meal per day with juice or a green smoothie but I wouldn't do it for 80% of my daily nutrition. I still think you need to chew your food.

free skin care · Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:40 am

SeanySeanUK wrote:

Oh ok, I wasn’t sure. No one is saying that juicing is just a good supplement for those “too busy” to consume a balanced diet but it can be helpful if someone is busy, but more importantly the real advantage of juicing is the nutrients are in an accessible form. That to me is ultimately what it boils down to. The problem with blending is that its not as immediate a hit as juice because of the fibre element and that’s not to say that fibre is bad, but if a persons intestines have been clogged up with wheat and a hoast of other goodies, then the body’s ability to absorb it is going to be compromised in some shape or form and therefore they’re not going to gain the full advantages of consuming a smoothie, but they will with the juice.

Again you are using the word nutrients interchangeably with the word micronutrients. I disagree with your value judgement that micronutrients are more valuable/ advantageous/ healthy/ nutritious than dietary fibre and therefore average Joe would be getting the 'full advantages' through juicing. In discarding the soluble and insoluble fibre one discards a raft of health benefits, including feeding the probiotic bacteria that colonise a healthy gut.

I am not aware of published research demonstrating that wheat 'clogs the intestines' nor that we beenfit from an 'immediate hit' of vitamins and minerals and would be interested in reading any that you can supply. Obviously we all agree that refined grains are unhealthy, and that nobody should be consuming any one food source too frequently, including wheat. To be clear I subscribe to the official guidelines to eat a variety of foods and urge my clients not to eat any refined grains.

SeanySeanUK wrote:

For most people, learning this stuff is where the challenge comes in because there is a lot of conflicting advices out there, and people can mistakeningly believe they are on a “good” diet which is a good diet but is just too challenging for their bodies at this moment in time. Likewise what everyone believes constitutes a “good” diet is different because we’re all starting out from different places and with different issues, but the idea of supplying the body with good supplies of nutrients in easily accessible forms is something that will usually help everyone, even those with digestive issues.

Most nations official guidelines are specifically designed to be accessible and not confusing. From what I see at work, the problems arise with the public knowing a little about numerous commercial/ fad diets from the media and using a pick'n'mix strategy to combine them. I am unsure what you mean by too challenging for their bodies, do you mean more than the recommended intake of fatty/ sugary/ refined/ processed food? I see client after client on diets that eliminate food groups without choosing a suitable replacement, diets that are deficient in one or more macro and/ or micronutrients. For example many that believe the UK guidelines are ideally five portions of fruit and veg a day instead of at least five portions. Many that limit or avoid grains without increasing their intake of pulses and root veg, many that do not like oily fish and do not eat 'fattening' nuts and seeds.

free skin care · Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:55 pm

I agree that everything in moderation as far as juicing and smoothies are concerned-- most people (including those die-hard raw vegans I go to school with who make smoothies and juicing a larger part of their diets than the average Joe)would not suggest going with one over the other exclusively. They both have their benefits.

What I was hoping to discuss was whether or not a raw diet is superior for skin health and vitality over a diet that includes (grass-fed) meat. Anyone have opinions on this? Articles or observations?

free skin care · Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:02 pm

Wow some interesting comments here, but I dont have the time to read them all - not for the next week or so atleast! Laughing

as I barely have the time to read them, hats off to those who have the time to write them! If only I was so lucky! lol Wink

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