Sagging after facial exercise
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Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:48 pm

Hi,
I posted on here a while back about how my face has sagged after doing facial exercises. In the past year I've worked hard to improve my nutrition and my general wellbeing.
I stopped facial exercises about a year ago. I did try doing some light isotonic exercises (hands off, no resistance) in September, just for a few weeks, very gently and infrequently, but I backed off again as I think it may have stressed my skin a little.
More recently I've tried occasional massage on well lubricated skin, gently. Again, not sure, I thought it was helping but the last couple of times I tried I think it may have aggravated things. I am ultra cautious.
The sagging face and neck have not permanently recovered over time, so it's not a question of going through the "uglies" and coming out the other side. What does happen, however, is that there is fluctuation, so for a few days my face and neck will look more lifted, not tired, acceptable, even pretty good. Then it will all sag again. Despite taking notes for the past year I can't seem to find any pattern to this (I'm female, 43, possibly a little hormonal but nothing major). I have looked at all the major things like sleep, nutrition, mental wellbeing. Working on them all.
Sometimes things seem to help for a bit, like seeing a kinesiologist, or doing affirmations, but then the sagging starts again and I can't help wondering whether it's just coincidence.
I feel I'm running out of options.
By the way, this was not down to one particular programme, I tried a few (in moderation).
I've had a lot of support, totally brilliant actually, from the FlexEffect crew, and I use their boards regularly (Sean, Claudia and others, just want to say a public "thank you" in case you read this!).
I continue to take advice, I am doing positive thinking, blood tests (so far nothing has shown up), saw the doc again recently, continuing affirmations, good nutrition etc etc. I have had sleep issues at times, I've also possibly been a little down at times, although if I'm honest with myself I think that's been due to the sagging.
Clearly there are times when my body seems to perk up and look and feel a lot better, people comment on how well I look, and I feel on top of the world. Then everything sags and I am left wondering whether the roller coaster will ever end. I've just had a week looking awful after a couple of much better weeks. Often the good periods are shorter than the bad, although it's true my good stretches have perhaps been a bit longer this year so far (since seeing kinesiologist maybe). But the bad patches are all just as bad.
The reason for my post is just in case anyone has experienced anything similar, or overcome similar issues. I thought it was worth a try, as this seems to be a widely read forum. I do live in hope that things will eventually improve, and certainly my skin has shown that at times it can really perk up again, it's just so random though!
Thank you very much for reading.
Dotty

Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:54 am

Clarification: I thought I should make it clear I haven't actually followed the Flexeffect programme yet. I used three other well-known and reputable programmes before. I ended up on the Flexeffect boards after reading about the good support they offered, and I bought the FE programme as I hoped I'd be able to restart facial exercising eventually, easing in gently, and I'd rather do it with the best support possible. The advice I've received on the FE boards has more than repayed my initial outlay on the programme, even if I never get to actually use it!
It seems clear that I would have reacted to any type of facial exercise in the same way. What would have been more helpful is for someone to tell me to back right off, much earlier on.
Now it is done, I can't change the past. I am still hopeful I will improve, and of course I do have times when things do improve. It is a strange rollercoaster ride I'm on. I think I actually feel pretty well now, overall, certainly moreso than when I was exercising before. But my face/neck muscles/skin don't seem to be able to recover permanently, just for short periods.
Has anyone else experienced such fluctuations?
Thanks!

free skin care · Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:53 pm

I've read that sagging is due to loss of collagen, which accelerates each decade. Try taking collagen and see if it helps, it did for me.

http://www.iherb.com/Neocell-Super-Collagen-Type-1-3-7-oz-198-g/6074?at=0

Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:00 am

Thanks very much for the suggestion 7Destiny, you're the second person who has recommended the collagen supplement to me, I'll look into it.

free skin care · Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:53 am

I have chronic insomnia and previously partied in a rather hardcore manner. I notice my face sags when I am tired and/ or dehydrated; there is overlap because the body processes and distributes nutrients and water poorly when it is sleep deprived. You probably already know this but the body needs a balance of protein, essential fatty acids and low glycaemic index carbs to be able to hold onto water, it is not simply a case of drinking more or eating more fruit and veggies. I appreciate you saying that you have kept notes on these aspects, but are you looking at what you did the previous day, the previous week or what?

Both facial exercise and massage can affect your lymphatic system, perhaps draining too much water in your case? Is your entire skincare routine set up for optimum hydration and skin barrier function? By entire I mean cleansers and exfoliators, not simply serums and moisturisers? What sort of nutrition plan are you following?

Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:25 am

Firefox7275, thank you for taking the time to give your thoughts.
Yes, I've looked at more than what I was doing the day before, when things get worse. I've reported everything back to my nutritionist too and she's not seen patterns, so we are continuing to work on the "bigger picture". With the nutritionist's support I did change my whole way of eating about this time last year (easing into it reasonably gently so as not to shock the body) and it is true that my underlying physical state IS better. I used to get a lot of aches and fatigue, and almost all the aches and a lot of the fatigue has gone. Things still come and go, but there's been an improvement overall.
Somehow the recent work with the kinesiologist, combined with the better nutritional foundation, is moving in the right direction. I know nothing is going to happen overnight and I really do feel much more optimistic overall.
It can be frustrating though when it all goes saggy again just as I think I've seen the last of it!
I don't know anything about the lymphatic system, and maybe it's something I need to inform myself on. There is a sensitivity around my face and neck and it would be really good to know why it is. The facial massage I did more recently was incredibly gentle, as I removed my makeup with cleanser.
Interestingly, my face seemed to perk up in the first few days of doing it, but then seemed to start responding badly again - may have just been coincidence. But I have seen this before, that I'll respond well to something initially, then get worse.
If anyone can point me in the direction of some good information on the lymphatic system I'd be grateful!

free skin care · Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:54 am

Hey Dotty,

Another thought: Have you had an allergy tests done? What does your CBC (a blood test) tell you about your immune cells? Are any of your immune cell counts elevated, by any chance? Just wondering if there's a hidden allergy or if you can rule that out.

Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:13 am

Hi cm, thanks for your thoughts. I've had a general blood test to check organ function, generally ok, the thyroid was a weeee bit out but nothing the nutritionist thought was a problem and the doc didn't even pick up on it.

How does the CBC test differ?

The doc has booked me in for a cortisol test next week. I haven't specifically talked to the doc about the skin problem though.

free skin care · Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:21 am

Dotty wrote:

Hi cm, thanks for your thoughts. I've had a general blood test to check organ function, generally ok, the thyroid was a weeee bit out but nothing the nutritionist thought was a problem and the doc didn't even pick up on it.

How does the CBC test differ?

The doc has booked me in for a cortisol test next week. I haven't specifically talked to the doc about the skin problem though.

Hi Dotty,

Complete Blood Count (CBC) There is more information on the link, but it is pretty much a standard test for the most usual issues.

A complete blood count (CBC) gives important information about the kinds and numbers of cells in the blood, especially red blood cells , white blood cells , and platelets. A CBC helps your doctor check any symptoms, such as weakness, fatigue, or bruising, you may have. A CBC also helps him or her diagnose conditions, such as anemia, infection, and many other disorders.

http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/complete-blood-count-cbc

Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:43 am

Thanks for that info DarkMoon, good link!
Yes, that's the blood test I got done last year.
Actually I've fished it out again and I can't remember what the nutritionist said about thyroid now, I may be mistaken about it being a touch low.
The two lines on the report that have been highlighted are "serum folate" which says "high" and the plasma corrected calcium level which says "low" but they can't have been bad as the doc didn't pick up on either of these. Nutritionist didn't seem to think this was a big deal either, although she did give me calcium/magnesium supplements for a good while, at least six months (with no notable effect - I stopped in the new year).

Looking at the rest, the only things which seem right at the edge of the "normal" spectrum are total white cell count which is 4.2 within a "normal" range of 4-11, and then the "neutrophil count" (part of the "differential white cell count") which is 2.1 within a "normal" range of 2.0-7.5 - but I have NO idea what any of that that means!

As for allergies, when I started with the nutritionist we did an anti-inflammation programme which included eliminating possible sources of dietary allergy then reintroducing them gradually, nothing showed up as being negative. I also went without coffee/alcohol for at least a month with absolutely no difference, and I cut back on them quite seriously anyway in the first few months of the programme. Even now I only partake very moderately.

free skin care · Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:52 am

Serum Folate refers to folic acid. So you are good. we all tend to fluctuate to some extent depending on diet, supplements ect. so a CBC is one guideline which our doctors use to evaluate all around health.

Naturally occurring folates are present widely in plant and animal foods taken in the diet and absorbed in the small intestine. Lack of folic acid inhibits DNA synthesis in rapidly dividing cells, thus producing Megaloblastic anemia.

http://www.medindia.net/bloodtest/hematology/serum_folate.htm Smile

Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:02 am

Thanks DarkMoon!
I wish they HAD found something as it would have explained my situation Sad

free skin care · Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:17 pm

Don't place too much stock in a CBC, anyone with a mild autoimmune disorder will display an abnormal level in this one. I have Crohns disease and haven't had a normal test in 15 years despite being in remission most of the time.

Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:33 am

Hi AvaWW, just to be clear, do you mean that even the mildest autoimmune disorder WOULD show up? In other words even a slight immune issue cannot be present in my case or my results would have picked up on it?
Sorry - just want to be sure I've understood, thanks! Smile

free skin care · Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:24 am

Dotty wrote:

Hi AvaWW, just to be clear, do you mean that even the mildest autoimmune disorder WOULD show up? In other words even a slight immune issue cannot be present in my case or my results would have picked up on it?
Sorry - just want to be sure I've understood, thanks! Smile

Dotty,

All of your "numbers" are still within normal range even if a few showed as low or high, I might ask my nutritionist about any need for supplements. I have always tested very high (but in normal range) for both hematocrit and heamoglobin which is unusual for a female, the only thing I had too be concerned with was not added iron in supplements eg: prenatal vitamins and hormone containing medications. Both my daughters inherited my high levels (commonly called your iron count).

Ava,
I can relate to what you are dealing with, my almost 28 year old son has UC and he has gotten so fed up that he refuses to take Asacol or any meds. but watches his diet. My beef with the medical community is it seems to me at least so many conditions/diseases that they can't pinpoint a cause for are lumped into autoimmune diseases! That is from a mom who has seen a child deal with one for over 11 years, last 4 or so no remission! Mothers frustration on that.

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