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Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:01 am  |
Hello everyone. I am new here but have been reading this forum for quite a while. I have a concern that I cannot find an answer to, and I thought maybe you all could help me figure this out.
I think I have melasma, self-diagnosed.  Anyhow, of course any sun exposure would make it worse. But what about other things, like electronics and lighting? I've looked this up and I can't find a definitive answer. I read that fluorescent lighting can make melasma worse. So I assume that includes the energy efficient fluorescent light bulbs. Of which I use in my whole home to save energy! What about incandescent light bulbs? And computer screens? I read computer screens can worsen melasma so I turned my brightness all the way down. And what about LCD TV screens.
But my main reason for this post is, I bought a Nintendo 3ds when it first came out. (lol) And I'm quite worried about this possibly making my melasma worse. I've tried to look this up but there is NOTHING about handheld video game consoles and melasma. Does anyone know if that could even be possible? It's a bright screen on my face for hours sometimes. I've just started using a new sunscreen (elta md spf 46 uv clear) so I realize that would help. But I still would like to know if anyone has any idea about this. Then I wonder about other things like e-readers, cell phones, etc. I'm really surprised I can't find answers to this and it's driving me crazy that no one else with melasma seems to have said anything about this anywhere. Hope someone can help! |
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Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:12 pm |
| egyptiangoddess wrote: |
Hello everyone. I am new here but have been reading this forum for quite a while. I have a concern that I cannot find an answer to, and I thought maybe you all could help me figure this out.
I think I have melasma, self-diagnosed. Anyhow, of course any sun exposure would make it worse. But what about other things, like electronics and lighting? I've looked this up and I can't find a definitive answer. I read that fluorescent lighting can make melasma worse. So I assume that includes the energy efficient fluorescent light bulbs. Of which I use in my whole home to save energy! What about incandescent light bulbs? And computer screens? I read computer screens can worsen melasma so I turned my brightness all the way down. And what about LCD TV screens.
But my main reason for this post is, I bought a Nintendo 3ds when it first came out. (lol) And I'm quite worried about this possibly making my melasma worse. I've tried to look this up but there is NOTHING about handheld video game consoles and melasma. Does anyone know if that could even be possible? It's a bright screen on my face for hours sometimes. I've just started using a new sunscreen (elta md spf 46 uv clear) so I realize that would help. But I still would like to know if anyone has any idea about this. Then I wonder about other things like e-readers, cell phones, etc. I'm really surprised I can't find answers to this and it's driving me crazy that no one else with melasma seems to have said anything about this anywhere. Hope someone can help! |
I really can't speak to that and doubt you will find much research on it. Did you check google?
All you can really do is use melanin inhibitors (I am trialing a new Nia24 product at the moment) and wear sunscreen daily (I love the elta md spf 46 uv clear), and try not to let skin obsessions ruin your life.  But I am personally not giving up my electronics and lights at this point. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Fri May 04, 2012 4:42 am |
Hi bethany. Thanks. I did check google. Couldn't find anything about it really, other than about flourescent lighting and halogen lighting possibly worsening melasma. And computer screens. I think my 3ds did worsen my discoloration. Now I'm keeping both on the least brightness! And I changed the lighting in my house and am trying some new products. I am very depressed about my skin.
I like the elta sunscreen. But I find it VERY drying! Do you find it drying at all bethany? I can't figure out what to do about it. I've tried several things underneath it but it's still *so* drying. It seems to be bothering my rosacea due to being so drying. *sigh* (It soothes it at first though!) I wonder if the drying effect will get better with time.  I want to keep using it because it has 5% niacinimide as well as it's the best I've found so far. I've tried a ton of different sunscreens! |
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Sat May 05, 2012 7:36 pm |
| egyptiangoddess wrote: |
| I like the elta sunscreen. But I find it VERY drying! Do you find it drying at all bethany? I can't figure out what to do about it. I've tried several things underneath it but it's still *so* drying. It seems to be bothering my rosacea due to being so drying. *sigh* (It soothes it at first though!) I wonder if the drying effect will get better with time. I want to keep using it because it has 5% niacinimide as well as it's the best I've found so far. I've tried a ton of different sunscreens! |
Maybe try Nia24 sunscreen? It has a patented niacin molecule with supposedly better penetration, and I personally find it a bit too moisturizing for me. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Wed May 16, 2012 4:16 am |
I saw that they had a sunscreen bethany. I want to try it now that you said it was too moisturizing! Thank you! Which one was it that you tried? They have a chemical and a mineral one.
I found this web page by Health Canada regarding fluorescent light bulbs. They mention the health risks including if you are sensitive to UV light. I found it helpful so I thought I should post it in case anyone else may find it helpful.
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hl-vs/iyh-vsv/prod/cfl-afc-eng.php |
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havana8
Moderator
 
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 3451
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Wed May 16, 2012 8:37 am |
You could also consider adding a CEF serum to your routine as suggested by Dr Baumann:
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Another Type of Ray to be Wary Of
We wear sunscreen every day to shield our skin from the damage caused by UVA and UVB rays, but you probably didn’t know that there’s another type of sun ray we need to think about. Odds are you’ve heard of infrared rays, but research is beginning to shed light (no pun intended) on the ill effects this energy has on our skin.
What are infrared rays?
Simply put, infrared rays are produced by the sun, ovens, hairdryers and light bulbs. (In fact, 54% of the solar energy that reaches the skin’s surface is infrared.) Similar to UV rays, there are three kinds of infrared rays: IFA, IFB and IFC. We can’t feel the IFA type rays, but they penetrate deeper in the skin than UV does, and cause damage that leads to skin aging. (You can feel IFB and IFC, which get reflected off of the skin’s surface.)
How infrared rays affect our skin
IFA rays do not generate heat, but they penetrate deep into the skin and damage the mitochondria (energy-producing organelles) and other parts of our skin cells by generating free radicals. Infrared rays have also been found to increase pigment production within the skin. Recent research also shows that IFA rays cause inflammation as well as signs of aging like fine lines and wrinkles. Infrared rays may also be the root cause of “laptop rash,” a red, blotchy irritation (medically known as erythema ab igne) that looks like brown, red patches in areas of heat contact.
How you can protect yourself
Sunscreens do not shield skin from any type of infrared rays. Topical antioxidants should help shield the skin but the only one that has been tested (and proven) to protect against IFA is SkinCeuticals C E Ferulic.
http://health.yahoo.net/experts/skintype/new-sunscreen-rules-mean-you |
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havana8
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Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 3451
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Thu May 17, 2012 6:56 am |
Thank you so much for the links havana8! Omg infrared rays! I knew there was something more than just UV rays that damaged skin, I just didn't know what. I'd better start taking my straight tomato paste again lol!
The last link you gave me, I've read that one already. Notice how the author doesn't mention or know about infrared rays?  I wouldn't be breathing a sigh of relief if I was her!
So LCD screens don't emit UV, which, I think my 3DS is made with LCD screens. (I *think*) But it probably emits infrared rays! Argh. And the part about ovens?! Now how will I bake my husband cookies?! LMAO.
Ok, so the Leslie Baumann article seems fishy. It ends with "But the only one that has been tested (and proven) to protect against IFA is Skinceauticals C E Ferulic." And then there aren't any links/proof to that statement at the end of the article. And the Skinceuticals serum just happens to be 160 bucks! Was that just a sales pitch or are there any actual studies proving it to help protect against IRA? Does anyone know? I know you can DIY a C E Ferulic serum. |
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Thu May 17, 2012 3:26 pm |
| egyptiangoddess wrote: |
Ok, so the Leslie Baumann article seems fishy. It ends with "But the only one that has been tested (and proven) to protect against IFA is Skinceauticals C E Ferulic." And then there aren't any links/proof to that statement at the end of the article. And the Skinceuticals serum just happens to be 160 bucks! Was that just a sales pitch or are there any actual studies proving it to help protect against IRA? Does anyone know? I know you can DIY a C E Ferulic serum. |
I think Dr. Baumann is confused. The Skinceutical C E Ferulic serum was tested against UV irradiation, specifically UVA which also produces free radical damage (not Infrared A). But the principal is the same ... antioxidants help prevent/repair some of that damage.
http://www.skinceuticals.com/_us/_en/science/download/Vitamin%20C.pdf
http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v121/n4/full/5601976a.html
The above information is a bit dated, since it talks about sunscreens and SPF (which only relates to protection from UVB rays). Sunscreen regulations are changing to include UVA protection as well, and these days many manufacturers include some kind of antioxidant (such as C, E or green tea) in their sunscreen formulations . |
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Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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havana8
Moderator
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 3451
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Thu May 17, 2012 6:14 pm |
Skinceuticals website is impossible to navigate so I can't find any science linking infrared and the CE ferulic. Noting the phraseology changes between the YouTube advert, website and Facebook.
Website says "new studies confirm infrared radiation A accelerates skin ageing" and "CE ferulic protects against IRA-induced MMP-1, the enzyme responsible for collagen breakdown". These are two separate statements.
Facebook says "Introducing a NEW Scientific Discovery -- Like UVA & UVB, Infrared Radiation damages skin. C E Ferulic is scientifically proven to neutralize UV and infrared radiation for increased firmness and reduced wrinkles."
Again two separate sentences.
Also "Skinceuticals CE ferulic is scientifically proven to combat infrared radiation A damage, a major cause of photoageing."
Note the use of the word damage.
Youtube advert title is
"Breakthrough Scientific Discovery: C E Ferulic is proven to protect against Infrared Radiation A"
protect and combat are not one and the same.
NB I am NOT saying CE ferulic doesn't have any benefits nor even doesn't have the stated benefits. Simply that the wording is misleading and they are not putting their money where their mouth is and actually linking to the alleged science. I have clicked on the links for abstracts and what I actually get is a Skinceuticals summary, not the actual abstracts. Overall Skinceuticals has gone down in my estimation! |
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Sensitivity, forehead pigmentation & elevens, nose & chin clogged pores. Topicals: Aloe vera, squalane, lactic acid, Myfawnie KinNiaNag HG: Weleda calendula, Lanolips, Guinot masque essentiel, Flexitol Naturals, Careprost. Gadgets: Vaughter dermarollers, Lightstim. |
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Fri May 18, 2012 4:39 am |
| Lacy53 wrote: |
I think Dr. Baumann is confused. The Skinceutical C E Ferulic serum was tested against UV irradiation, specifically UVA which also produces free radical damage (not Infrared A). But the principal is the same ... antioxidants help prevent/repair some of that damage.
http://www.skinceuticals.com/_us/_en/science/download/Vitamin%20C.pdf |
Wow, way to dumb down information and try to market your product Skinceuticals! I have to say, Leslie Baumann doesn't exactly seem like the type you can take as face value. You know, with probable financial interests and so on. 
havana8, I watched the video. They just say it protects against IRA and then they don't even have any proof LOL.
Here is an excellent article on infrared rays and skin that I found: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2926798/
Here I quoted the end of the article:
| Quote: |
This report opens the door for further research into the biological actions of IR on the skin. This form of radiant energy penetrates more deeply into the skin, has a distinct set of chromophores, activates a unique set of molecular targets, and, as a consequence, produces biologic effects on the skin that are different from other forms of radiant energy. The changes in genes well-known for their roles in photoaging and photocarcinogenesis by IRA radiation is of obvious relevance to investigative dermatology, and these findings will be of immense help in guiding studies in in vivo models. As noted above, differential effects upon gene expression at different wavelengths within the IRA spectrum should be defined, and the intracellular IRA chromophores will need to be identified.
The clinical relevance of these findings touches upon aspects of both prevention and therapy. As Schroeder et al. (2010) have noted, sun protection strategies need to be reconsidered. Current sunscreens have not been evaluated for, and are unlikely to possess, efficacy against IRA. Topical application of antioxidants has been shown to abrogate IRA-induced MMP-1 production (Schroeder et al. 2008) and this may be a viable anti-IRA strategy.
Although UVR effects on keratinocytes and IRR effects on dermal fibroblasts share a number of biological endpoints, there are substantial differences in gene expression, and the chromophores that initiate these processes, as well as the intracellular pathways that are activated by them are quite different. This raises the interesting question as to whether there is cause for concern about visible light, which lies between UV and IR on the electromagnetic spectrum. Chromophores within the visible spectrum are present in the skin and recent electron spin resonance spectroscopy studies have demonstrated significant ROS generation in skin by visible light (Zastrow et al., 2009).
The generation of new knowledge about the effects of IR on the skin holds the promise of greater understanding of cutaneous diseases, such as photoaging, with the ultimate goal of more effective preventative and therapeutic strategies in which this form of radiant energy participates. |
Firefox, I am NOT impressed by Skinceuticals right now lol. I've never used anything by them but the lack of scientific evidence whilst marketing the product leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
This is what I know about Ferulic acid. Taken from Paula Begoun's Ingredient Dictionary:
| Quote: |
| A plant-based antioxidant. Research suggests that it provides antioxidant and sun-protective benefits to skin while enhancing the stability of topical applications of vitamin E (Sources: International Journal of Pharmaceutics, April 10, 2000, pages 39–47; Anticancer Research, September–October 1999, pages 3769–3774; Nutrition and Cancer, February 1998, pages 81–85; and Free Radical Biology and Medicine, October 1992, pages 435–448). As studies concerning this and similar compounds (such as caffeic and ellagic acid) continues, I suspect we will see more antioxidant-based products enhanced with them, which is great news for keeping skin healthy and protecting it from further damage. |
http://www.cosmeticscop.com/cosmetic-ingredient-dictionary/definition/580/ferulic-acid.aspx
Was I allowed to post that? I hope so!
And of course we already know the benefits of Vitamin C and Vitamin E. It's interesting to me that they didn't address AA2G or any other forms of Vitamin C in the Skinceuticals link Lacy gave. I would have found that interesting.
Their serum isn't worth 160 dollars, many people complain of the LAA in it going bad before they get it, and the way they seem to dumb things down is distasteful.
ETA: This is why DIY is SO MUCH BETTER! (So I've learned!  ) |
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havana8
Moderator
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 3451
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Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:31 am |
I was looking at the new Skinceuticals Resveratrol BE and ran across this poster abstract which I think may be the study referenced:
| Quote: |
P7661
Complementary effect of antioxidants against infrared Aeinduced MMP-1 upregulation in human skin
Alessandra Marini, IUF, Dusseldorf, Germany; Christian Oresajo, L’Oreal Research and Innovation, Clark, NJ, United States; Jean Krutmann, IUF, Dusseldorf, Germany; Susanne Grether-Beck, IUF, Dusseldorf, Germany; Thomas Jaenicke, IUF, Dusseldorf, Germany; Yevgeniy Krol, Skinceuticals Inc, NY, North Dakota, United States
Objective: Studies have established that human skin is a target for infrared A radiation (IRA), and our previous study showed that combination of ascorbic acid, tocopherol, and ferulic acid antioxidants can significantly decrease IRA-induced upregulation of MMP-1 in primary human dermal fibroblasts. The purpose of this study was to determine if 2 proprietary compositions, 1 of which is supplemented with vitamins C, E, and ferulic acid, can prevent IRA-induced damage in human skin.
Methods: Buttock skin of 25 healthy human volunteers was exposed to a single dose of IRA radiation (360 J/cm2). For sham treatment, another area of buttock skin was treated completely identical, except that no IRA was applied. Two further areas of the buttock of the volunteers were treated with test compounds 740019 or 740019 28 (SkinCeuticals Inc) once daily for a period of 10 days with 2 mg/cm2 before IRA treatment. Twenty-four hours after irradiation, 4-mm punch biopsy specimens were obtained from all 4 skin sites and RT-PCR analysis was carried out for MMP-1. Three subjects were removed from analysis because of nonresponse and the remaining results were normalized for individual IRA response.
Results: Results from 22 responders out of the 25 subjects tested demonstrate that IRA radiation resulted in a 3.97-fold increase of MMP-1 mRNA expression in untreated skin sites. Both test compounds significantly protected from IRA-induced MMP-1 upregulation. However, the composition supplemented with antioxidants inhibited IRAeinduced MMP-1 expression by 59.7%, while 740019 28 prevented IRA-induced upregulation of MMP-1 mRNA by 36.9%.
Conclusion: Both compositions 740019 and 740019 28 are well suited to protect from IRA-induced MMP-1 upregulation in human skin.These results indicate that use of antioxidants in topical compositions can enhance the protection of human skin against IRA-induced skin aging.
Sponsored 100% by L’Oreal.
http://www.aad.org/File%20Library/Global%20navigation/Meetings%20and%20Events/AM%202014/2014-Poster-Abstracts.PDF |
Another related article:
Antioxidants battle infrared A radiation-induced skin damage
http://dermatologytimes.modernmedicine.com/dermatology-times/news/clinical/clinical-pharmacology/antioxidants-battle-infrared-radiation-induced# |
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