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Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:41 am  |
I've been using Retin A for about 6 weeks. I'm using the mildest .025 and have never had redness or peeling anywhere except the parenthesis between my nose and chin. It stays red and peeling and leathery looking. It will be better for a day or so, then inflamed again. I've quit using my morning application of C serum in that area. I also use CeraVe cream and sunscreen.
I know that this a common side effect that should go away, but I'm wondering how long is reasonable? I hate to not use it in that area because that's where I have the most wrinkles. I haven't dropped down to every other night because I was hoping by using it nightly that my skin would build up a tolerance.
Any suggestions or just hang in there? It concerns me that this inflammation is going on a little too long.  |
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Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:58 am |
| You just need to slow down on the retin-a. Using it everyday when you first start out is really aggressive especially when you are also using vitamin c because both can be irritating. Since everyones skin is different there is no set time. You could damage your skin by being using it so often at first. I would slow down to twice a week at most until your skin gets back to normal. Many people can't use it at all so that is really good that you aren't very sensitive to it. Greg |
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Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:10 am |
Thanks, Greg. I will stop applying it, at least in that area, until it clears up, then gradually increase the frequency. I think the combo of the sunscreen which really burns and the C serum played a big role in the ongoing irritation.
Actually, I had started out every other night with no problems. Perhaps I didn't wait long enough before going to every night. I'm amazed that I haven't had issues around my eyes since I tend to get it a little closer than I should. I hope I don't develop irritation where there hasn't been in the previous six weeks. |
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Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:27 am |
If your sunscreen burns, switch to a physical- preferrably zinc oxide based sunscreen! (I'm assuming that a sunscreen that burns is chemical, becuase that's what chemical sunscreens did to me)
Not only is a zinc oxide sunscreen not going to burn or hurt your skin in any way, it will actually calm and heal it.
| Flavia wrote: |
Thanks, Greg. I will stop applying it, at least in that area, until it clears up, then gradually increase the frequency. I think the combo of the sunscreen which really burns and the C serum played a big role in the ongoing irritation.
Actually, I had started out every other night with no problems. Perhaps I didn't wait long enough before going to every night. I'm amazed that I haven't had issues around my eyes since I tend to get it a little closer than I should. I hope I don't develop irritation where there hasn't been in the previous six weeks. |
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24 yrs old. favorite sunscreen right now: Burnout [now 35] |
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Thu Dec 02, 2010 4:41 pm |
| Good suggestion. Is there a zinc oxide sunscreen that isn't greasy that you recommend? |
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Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:27 pm |
| I recently made a discovery about using Retin A. I discovered that the cleanser I use affects the experience I have with the Retin A. I sampled a cleanser that made my skin a little tighter than what I was using and I found that I had more irritation from the Retin A. My usual cleanser is oil-based and emollient and while the one I sampled was also oil-based it made my skin more taut and my skin felt more irritated as soon as I applied the Retin A. Maybe you could try to use a more emollient cleanser and that could help with the irritation. I also think you could start using it every other night instead of every night and build up to every night usage. |
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Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:39 pm |
| jom wrote: |
| I recently made a discovery about using Retin A. I discovered that the cleanser I use affects the experience I have with the Retin A. I sampled a cleanser that made my skin a little tighter than what I was using and I found that I had more irritation from the Retin A. My usual cleanser is oil-based and emollient and while the one I sampled was also oil-based it made my skin more taut and my skin felt more irritated as soon as I applied the Retin A. Maybe you could try to use a more emollient cleanser and that could help with the irritation. I also think you could start using it every other night instead of every night and build up to every night usage. |
I had this same experience. When I used OCM for cleaning, I had no Retin-A irritation. When I stopped using OCM, I noticed some slight irritation again (I'm a long-time Retin-A user). I think the oil based cleansers buffer the Retin-A somewhat. |
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Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:44 pm |
| ShastaGirl wrote: |
| jom wrote: |
| I recently made a discovery about using Retin A. I discovered that the cleanser I use affects the experience I have with the Retin A. I sampled a cleanser that made my skin a little tighter than what I was using and I found that I had more irritation from the Retin A. My usual cleanser is oil-based and emollient and while the one I sampled was also oil-based it made my skin more taut and my skin felt more irritated as soon as I applied the Retin A. Maybe you could try to use a more emollient cleanser and that could help with the irritation. I also think you could start using it every other night instead of every night and build up to every night usage. |
I had this same experience. When I used OCM for cleaning, I had no Retin-A irritation. When I stopped using OCM, I noticed some slight irritation again (I'm a long-time Retin-A user). I think the oil based cleansers buffer the Retin-A somewhat. |
I agree! In my experience the type of cleanser I use affects my irritation level. |
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Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:41 pm |
Yes, and besides those trukid sunscreen is also a great one. Trukid sunscreen is a little below the radar right now because I don't think many members here besides me have tried it and since I didn't like it more than burnout I didn't give it its own thread on the product reviews forum. (although I did talk about it in various physical sunscreen threads)
-I LOVE burnout, some others also love it, but some people really don't, I think people who don't like burnout would like trukid and/or devita.
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24 yrs old. favorite sunscreen right now: Burnout [now 35] |
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Fri Dec 03, 2010 7:33 am |
Great replies, everyone! I miss my castor oil/olive oil combo which I quit using when I started Retin A. I was afraid it might add a layer the RA couldn't penetrate as easily as completely dry skin. Besides, since starting RA, oil makes my skin itch. But I got compliments on my skin when I was using the oil and it seemed to make the crow's feet much less noticeable.
Any suggestions for when and how to apply the oil? I sure would like to go back to using it! |
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Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:47 pm |
| The best facial cleanser out there is Dianayonne's rosehip cleanser. It is low ph and free of all detergent. I have used it for over 6 years now. Greg |
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Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:22 pm |
| Flavia wrote: |
Great replies, everyone! I miss my castor oil/olive oil combo which I quit using when I started Retin A. I was afraid it might add a layer the RA couldn't penetrate as easily as completely dry skin. Besides, since starting RA, oil makes my skin itch. But I got compliments on my skin when I was using the oil and it seemed to make the crow's feet much less noticeable.
Any suggestions for when and how to apply the oil? I sure would like to go back to using it! |
Why not use the oil in the morning underneath your moisturizer or serums. |
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Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:15 pm |
Wouldn't oil create a barrier between my skin and the C serum? I thought my face had to be totally clean.
As for facial soap, I liked Purpose by Johnson & Johnson, but not the price. I discovered it was basically the same thing as J&J's baby shampoo, so I've been using the dollar store version. I was so proud of myself paying $1 for three times as much soap as the $7 Purpose. |
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Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:48 pm |
| Flavia wrote: |
Wouldn't oil create a barrier between my skin and the C serum? I thought my face had to be totally clean.
As for facial soap, I liked Purpose by Johnson & Johnson, but not the price. I discovered it was basically the same thing as J&J's baby shampoo, so I've been using the dollar store version. I was so proud of myself paying $1 for three times as much soap as the $7 Purpose. |
You can apply your C serum then wait about 15 minutes and apply the oil over it. Then your moisturizer and sunscreen or whatever else you use.
As far as the cleanser goes, I just think that using something creamier or more emollient, like an oil-based cleanser, rather than something that lathers up may help with the Retin A irritation. |
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Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:38 am |
Hmmm, interesting. I usually only use ocm to cleanse, and I just got Retin A 3 weeks ago, so have been going through some trial & error. I used a mild cleanser & felt nothing the first night I used Retin A, so I used it again the next night, and WOW, totally dried out my face. Felt like a reptile. So since then I've been using it every 3-4 days, sometimes only for a couple of hours, and my regular vit c only every couple of days, and never at the same time.
I also use a microfibre cloth to remove anything from my face, and quickly realized that I need to be a WHOLE lot more gentle with it around the Retin A treatments.
I was a little concerned that ocm oil would create a barrier too, but at these early stages, I'd rather too little Retin A get to my skin than overdo it. I also remember Dark Moon saying somewhere that the point of using a steaming cloth to remove ocm is to get ALL of the oil residue off, so I'm kind of trusting that I'm doing that. And if its creating a slight cushion, I feel like its a good thing and am grateful - that Retin A is harsh! |
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Olive, normal/oily skin. Using rinse-off ocm, Vit C, Tretinoin since Nov/10, GHK since Feb/12, Niacinamide & glucosamine, alternating, & now skipping nights! Concerns include oiliness, hyperpigmentation from occasional zits, 11's & nasolabial folds. |
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Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:56 am |
Exactly Lori!
If you are leaving oil from OCM on your skin, you are leaving oil full of makeup, dirt, dried sebum and dead skin cells. Not what anyone wants to have on their skin all day or night!  |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:57 pm |
Yes, I just thought about it, and that's a very important point which I think is worth reiterating since I think there might be some confusion here. To my understanding the OCM is supposed to act as a cleanser which not only removes surface dirt, but also draws out impurities from underneath the surface (extra yuk!). Its supposed to be washed off or wiped away, like any cleanser. Not left on the skin.
So this is something different from applying & leaving oils on your skin for moisturizing or treatment etc. Your skin may retain a touch of the oil, but anything you put on porous skin does that, whether you can detect it or not - and this should be a very negligable amount. So I think a really important part of OCM is steaming & completely wiping away the oil (with toner if that's what works for you, or simply a washcloth or microfibre).
(see DarkMoon et al? I've been listening! ) |
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Olive, normal/oily skin. Using rinse-off ocm, Vit C, Tretinoin since Nov/10, GHK since Feb/12, Niacinamide & glucosamine, alternating, & now skipping nights! Concerns include oiliness, hyperpigmentation from occasional zits, 11's & nasolabial folds. |
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Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:04 pm |
Very articulately and concisely stated Lori! You hit the nail on the head OCM is a cleansing method and just like you wouldn't leave residue of a conventional cleanser on your skin, you don't leave the dirty oil on your skin!  |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:44 am |
| LoriA wrote: |
Yes, I just thought about it, and that's a very important point which I think is worth reiterating since I think there might be some confusion here. To my understanding the OCM is supposed to act as a cleanser which not only removes surface dirt, but also draws out impurities from underneath the surface (extra yuk!). Its supposed to be washed off or wiped away, like any cleanser. Not left on the skin.
So this is something different from applying & leaving oils on your skin for moisturizing or treatment etc. Your skin may retain a touch of the oil, but anything you put on porous skin does that, whether you can detect it or not - and this should be a very negligable amount. So I think a really important part of OCM is steaming & completely wiping away the oil (with toner if that's what works for you, or simply a washcloth or microfibre).
(see DarkMoon et al? I've been listening! ) |
Can we wash the oil off with a cleanser?? |
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Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:52 am |
I decided to try applying the oil before the Retin A and blotting all the excess shine off. Since doing that, I have not had a single problem with the RA. All the redness and peeling has gone away along with the Sahara Desert feeling. I may be decreasing the effectiveness of the RA, but this is the only way I can use it.
I use the oil cleansing method with the hot wash cloth about two or three times a week in the shower. (I guess I use the oil more for moisturizing than cleansing). The rest of the time, I cleanse my face with baby shampoo (as I mentioned, I get it from the dollar store). By the way, what is the best way to apply the hot cloth? Should I hold it just off my skin and let the steam penetrate my face or should I actually lay it on my face and for how long? |
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Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:40 am |
I don't think using cleanser to remove the oil would be a problem.
And I do the same thing I've seen them do when I've gone for facials - I just (carefully) lay the steaming cloth on my face for (as long as I have the patience!) or until the steam escapes. Then I press it all over & gather all the oil up with it. Then I give it an extra wipe all over.
But before I do all that, I actually take most of it off with a kleenex.
I just want to add that I've learned the hard way to be extremely gentle with any cloth I use just before or after applying Retin A. |
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Olive, normal/oily skin. Using rinse-off ocm, Vit C, Tretinoin since Nov/10, GHK since Feb/12, Niacinamide & glucosamine, alternating, & now skipping nights! Concerns include oiliness, hyperpigmentation from occasional zits, 11's & nasolabial folds. |
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Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:51 pm |
| I was miffed about not being able to wax my face while using RA. I ordered the little Panasonic shaver based on reviews and just used it for the first time. Love that thang! It even does my brows. I've been skeptical about shaving. Sounds awful and I thought it would cause the hair to grow back stiff and maybe it does for women with heavy dark facial hair, but the reviews I've read said it's not a problem. We'll see! |
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Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:38 pm |
| Flavia wrote: |
I miss my castor oil/olive oil combo which I quit using when I started Retin A. I was afraid it might add a layer the RA couldn't penetrate as easily as completely dry skin...
Any suggestions for when and how to apply the oil? I sure would like to go back to using it! |
Based upon this study I would go ahead with using the oil.
Int J Pharm. 2007 Apr 4;334(1-2):56-61. Epub 2006 Oct 21.
Investigation on the photostability of tretinoin in creams.
Brisaert M, Plaizier-Vercammen JA.
Erasmushogeschool Brussel, Health Care Department, Laarbeeklaan 121, B-1090 Brussels, Belgium. myriam.brisaert@docent.ehb.be
Abstract
In this investigation, the photodegradation of some tretinoin cream formulations was evaluated. Several oils were selected to prepare the cream formulations: olive oil, maize oil, castor oil, isopropyl myristate and Miglyol 812. A solubility study showed that tretinoin is best soluble in castor oil (0.60g/100ml), followed by isopropyl myristate, maize oil, Miglyol 812 and olive oil, respectively, 0.35, 0.30, 0.29 and 0.22g/100ml. The photostability of tretinoin in oils is comparable with the photostability of a tretinoin lotion (ethanol/propylene glycol 50/50), castor oil and olive oil giving slightly better results than the other oils. Investigation of the photodegradation of tretinoin in o/w creams, prepared with the same oils as mentioned above, revealed that tretinoin is far more stable in the cream formulations than in the respective oils, however it is not clear whether this is due to the formulation or due to a different irradiation technique. Tretinoin seemed to be most stable in the olive oil cream, followed by the castor oil cream. However microscopic investigation revealed the presence of tretinoin crystals in the olive oil cream, while the other creams were free of it. As a conclusion, one can say that the cream prepared with castor oil seems to be the most suitable one, in terms of solubility of tretinoin and in terms of photostability.
PMID: 17118589 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] |
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Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:05 pm |
| You could also alternate it with a retinaldehyde product like Avene Retrinal or an otc retinol. |
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