Skinbiology CP Serum
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free skin care · Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:40 pm

I don't think they are "new" ingredient additions Sis, I was just trying to figure out *why* the very same product label would be different for all other distributors..

I emailed Nanci for her thoughts, but she's away till next week... I'll post her reply when she answers.

free skin care · Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:51 pm

Kassy_A wrote:

I don't think they are "new" ingredient additions Sis, I was just trying to figure out *why* the very same product label would be different for all other distributors..

I emailed Nanci for her thoughts, but she's away till next week... I'll post her reply when she answers.

I appreciate that you pick up on stuff like that nonetheless.

How long have you been using the CP's and how frequently?

free skin care · Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:55 pm

sister sweets wrote:

Foxe - Thanks for your help with CP info. I was an avid fan for a long while but stopped due to bad press - not because of problems I had. \
And Kassy thank You for weighing in about the "new" ingredients on the SkinBio product. It's always nice when you give a thumbs up.

Just about two weeks ago I started using SKin Signals reguarly at NCN's suggestion (never had a problem with supercop previously so I jumped back in) and so far - so good. Anyway - I'm going to follow the suggested regime that Nanci gave me using both retin-a and the Copper. I also want to start rotating C serum back in so I guess I'll have to alternate days. I'm also using Matrixyl 3000. Too much stuff. Rolling Eyes

What is your daily/weekly regime Foxe?

Hi, Sis! Would you mind sharing Nanci's retin-a/copper regime? I use both, but haven't used them together yet. I don't even know if that is recommended or not. Thanks! ~ JJ

free skin care · Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:57 pm

Lacy53 wrote:

jjbeacham wrote:

Lacy, are you using Neutrogena's Visibly Firm line? I have those products and love them. I have heard they have been discontinued, which normally happens if I really like something. Do you happen to know if that's true? TIA! ~ JJ

Sadly, yes they have been discontinued! But they are now replaced by Neutrogena Ageless Intensives Firming Moisture; at least that is the name they are using in Canada. I was using the original Visibly Firm Serum and liked it very much. I am now using the Firming moisturizer which I don't like as much (simply because I don't like any creamy moisturizers; I prefer serums for my skin). I don't think they have a serum available under the Ageless Intensives line yet.

Well, I'm sorry to hear that. I love the Visibly Firm Serum too. I found some on eBay for $50 a bottle. Not sure if I love it that much! Thanks for the info ~ JJ

free skin care · Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:21 pm

sister sweets wrote:

I appreciate that you pick up on stuff like that nonetheless.

How long have you been using the CP's and how frequently?

I've turned into an ingredient fanatic Sis, but sometimes I miss the old days when *ignorance was bliss*...

I've been back and forth with CP Serum for about a year, but only since November have I used them steadily.. That for me is every other day, and I can't seem to go above 2 drops (mixed into whatever) once or twice a day.. If I go over that, I have 'sag' the next day.

For what it's worth to you, I keep the CP's + Peptides on one day, and Vitamin C on alternate days. I also use Retin-A on my CP day, and apply the CP's an hour before.. (On that note, I also have conflicting info.. Sad

Nanci instructs to use it that way (CP 1st), but when I wrote an email to SB I got a huge instruction reply that said use the Retin-A 1st, then CP's..

What a PITA all this skincare is... I liked it better when I didn't give a sheetay... Laughing

free skin care · Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:40 pm

Kassy_A wrote:

What a PITA all this skincare is... I liked it better when I didn't give a sheetay... Laughing

JJbeacham - you might like this:

Nanci's newest newsletter (Jan 4th) said to use CP's and retin-a at OPPOSITE ends of the day. Here ya go: I'll copy and paste the interesting parts:

From Nanci:
Copper Peptide - A New Stance On Using It.......

I've been using Copper Peptide for over 10 years now and swear by it. I used it feel it was best to start out using the mildest form of Dr. Pickart's second generation CP's (CP Serum) and then build up to the strongest second generation CP's (Super CopX2). I've changed my stance since I started NCN four years ago.

Copper Peptide is a very strong age reversal [b][b]product. I now feel that if you're new to Copper Peptide, you should start with the Super GHK Serum (normal/oily) or Cream (normal/dry) [which is the first generation of Copper Peptides. Or if you DO want to start with the 2nd generation CPs, dilute with water for at least the first couple of weeks. Some people can only use the first generation CPs and nothing stronger. Some can use only the CP Serum and nothing stronger. I've been using the newest Copper Peptide product, Skin Signals (with elastin and collagen for extra firming) for months now and then just spot treating with Super Cop or Super CopX2 any wrinkle and hyperpigmentation prone areas with excellent results. [/b]
New Tips:

I feel that Copper Peptide only needs to be used once a day unless you're aggressively treating scars and/or stretch marks.

If you use Retin-A (or any tretinoin product), use Copper Peptide at the opposite end of the day that you use your Retin-A. If you use a topical Vitamin C product, use your CP at the opposite end of the day.[/b] If you use acid on a daily basis (despite my New Year's resolution), use your CP at the opposite end of the day.
Only Super GHK or Protect & Restore with High Retinol should be used around your eye area unless you have good results with the 2nd generatation of CPs.
Spot treat only wrinkles, acne scars, stretch marks and hyperpigmentation spots with the stronger CP's (Super Cop and Super CopX2).

Nanci is against using acids on a daily basis she suggests exfoliating without an acid product. Although she uses her pumpkin peel twice a month.

free skin care · Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:01 pm

Sis, thanks a bunch! I think I'm doing it right, per Nanci's newsletter. I normally use retin-a mixed with Obagi Blender 3-4 nights a week. I also do as Kassy does, alternating Vit. C days with Copper Peptide days. There just isn't enough time for all of these various skin products/tools! I am loving Skin Signals. I use mine over Exfol Serum, and then put emu oil on top. I've been adding a dab of SAS' ELS serum and Anti-Ox Booster to the emu in an effort to replicate SkinBiology's emu product containing Vit. E., lutein & lycopene. I very much like the emu with these two SAS products blended with it. You're always so very helpful, and I really appreciate it. ~ JJ

free skin care · Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:08 pm

Kassy_A wrote:

sister sweets wrote:

I appreciate that you pick up on stuff like that nonetheless.

How long have you been using the CP's and how frequently?

I've turned into an ingredient fanatic Sis, but sometimes I miss the old days when *ignorance was bliss*...

I've been back and forth with CP Serum for about a year, but only since November have I used them steadily.. That for me is every other day, and I can't seem to go above 2 drops (mixed into whatever) once or twice a day.. If I go over that, I have 'sag' the next day.

For what it's worth to you, I keep the CP's + Peptides on one day, and Vitamin C on alternate days. I also use Retin-A on my CP day, and apply the CP's an hour before.. (On that note, I also have conflicting info.. Sad

Nanci instructs to use it that way (CP 1st), but when I wrote an email to SB I got a huge instruction reply that said use the Retin-A 1st, then CP's..

What a PITA all this skincare is... I liked it better when I didn't give a sheetay... Laughing

Kassy, which CP's are you using? I'm curious because I had virtually no visible results with Super CP Serum, but am so far having good results that I can actually see with Skin Signals. TIA! ~ JJ

free skin care · Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:12 pm

I am excited to continue with Skin Signals now. Thanks jj. and also thanks for the upbeat attitude... appears to be lacking at times here on EDS Sad

lately anyway.

I'm low on all of my skincare (this is a first Shock

) so lucky me I get to replenish supply. I've considered Skinactives for a long while. I'm going to get back into C serums(DIY) along with the CP's and the retin a from ADC. But it sounds like I may be able to get some other goodies in the mix.

free skin care · Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:21 pm

JJ - I'm going to post another part of nanci's newsletter. She is against acids on a daily basis. I'll post that part of the newsletter below:

I'm so excited for 2010! There are some changes coming and some new products coming that I'm absolutely in love with. Out with the old, in with the new....... that's what New Year's is all about, right? So let's get to it......

My New Year's Resolution

My New Year's resolution is to get everyone to stop using acids on a daily basis (glycolic, lactic, malic, salicylic etc.). I'm a HUGE proponent of exfoliation BUT I strongly believe that using acid on your skin every day is detrimental to your skin. Why you ask? Using acids on a daily basis can age us! Your skin may look great right away from using them, but long term use creates dry, wrinkled, lined, dehydrated skin. I've been researching this for over a year now. There are exceptions - for people with acne I'm still offering the 15% Daily Exfoliator to spot treat with. 15% Daily Exfoliator is made with organic white willow bark extract, which is the all natural form of Salicylic Acid. White willow bark extract is much less irritating than Salicylic Acid and has better anti-inflammatory properites. Another exception is if you're treating acne scars or stretch marks. In those cases, an acid is beneficial to apply after using the microfiber cleansing cloth (or TimePeel Microdermabrasion machine) and before applying your Copper Peptide.

Sis here: It sounds like in some cases the acids are a good thing.

free skin care · Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:38 pm

jjbeacham wrote:

Kassy, which CP's are you using? I'm curious because I had virtually no visible results with Super CP Serum, but am so far having good results that I can actually see with Skin Signals. TIA! ~ JJ

I use the "CP Serum"... I got it from NCN.

I haven't noticed any positive result yet, and I'm only using it because it's supposed to be one of the best things for boosting collagen production..

I'll stick with it for a few more months and re-evaluate then I guess.

What I'm really starting to love is DMAE... I never would have said that a year ago, but a bit of sag is a great mind changer... Laughing

free skin care · Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:33 pm

sister sweets wrote:

I am excited to continue with Skin Signals now. Thanks jj. and also thanks for the upbeat attitude... appears to be lacking at times here on EDS Sad

lately anyway.

I'm low on all of my skincare (this is a first Shock

) so lucky me I get to replenish supply. I've considered Skinactives for a long while. I'm going to get back into C serums(DIY) along with the CP's and the retin a from ADC. But it sounds like I may be able to get some other goodies in the mix.

Sis, I'm so glad you're excited about Skin Signals, and I believe it's truly an amazing product. It took a couple of weeks for me to start noticing a visible difference. Skin Signals is the third copper peptide product I've used, the first being Neutrogena's Visibly Firm line and the second being Super CP Serum. There is a huge difference in this product as far as my skin is concerned. It's almost as if S/S is refining the skin - much finer-textured, much tighter. I've also been dermarolling for product penetration for a little while. Something is visibly changing my skin and I'm afraid to stop anything if something is working!! Laughing

KWIM???? ~ JJ

free skin care · Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:41 pm

sister sweets wrote:

JJ - I'm going to post another part of nanci's newsletter. She is against acids on a daily basis. I'll post that part of the newsletter below:

I'm so excited for 2010! There are some changes coming and some new products coming that I'm absolutely in love with. Out with the old, in with the new....... that's what New Year's is all about, right? So let's get to it......

My New Year's Resolution

My New Year's resolution is to get everyone to stop using acids on a daily basis (glycolic, lactic, malic, salicylic etc.). I'm a HUGE proponent of exfoliation BUT I strongly believe that using acid on your skin every day is detrimental to your skin. Why you ask? Using acids on a daily basis can age us! Your skin may look great right away from using them, but long term use creates dry, wrinkled, lined, dehydrated skin. I've been researching this for over a year now. There are exceptions - for people with acne I'm still offering the 15% Daily Exfoliator to spot treat with. 15% Daily Exfoliator is made with organic white willow bark extract, which is the all natural form of Salicylic Acid. White willow bark extract is much less irritating than Salicylic Acid and has better anti-inflammatory properites. Another exception is if you're treating acne scars or stretch marks. In those cases, an acid is beneficial to apply after using the microfiber cleansing cloth (or TimePeel Microdermabrasion machine) and before applying your Copper Peptide.

Sis here: It sounds like in some cases the acids are a good thing.

Sis, I agree with Nanci. I think that you can thin the skin too much and I have tremendous respect for the power of acids. I've done series of Glycolic Acid peels (beginning at 30% to 40% and ending with 50%), six weeks at a time, with several months in between. I loved the results, but I try to do most of my skin care in moderation. The Exfol Serum I am currently using contains 2% Salicylic Acid. I also use a microdermabrasion cloth to exfoliate every 2-3 days. I think I'll start using the Exfol every other day for a while. I actually seem to get the same results from Skin Signals whether I use the Exfol Serum underneath it or not. At present, I am very careful not to exfoliate and use my derma roller on the same day. Thanks so much for this information - you got me to thinking about the Exfol, which I hadn't even thought of as an acid until reading this, as it feels so mild. You've probably saved me some dry skin and wrinkles down the road a bit! ~ JJ

free skin care · Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:56 pm

Kassy_A wrote:

jjbeacham wrote:

Kassy, which CP's are you using? I'm curious because I had virtually no visible results with Super CP Serum, but am so far having good results that I can actually see with Skin Signals. TIA! ~ JJ

I use the "CP Serum"... I got it from NCN.

I haven't noticed any positive result yet, and I'm only using it because it's supposed to be one of the best things for boosting collagen production..

I'll stick with it for a few more months and re-evaluate then I guess.

What I'm really starting to love is DMAE... I never would have said that a year ago, but a bit of sag is a great mind changer... Laughing

Kassy, a bit of sag is very persuasive, isn't it? Laughing

When I did my ill-advised 3 week experiment with Super CP Serum applied aggressively, I woke up one morning and one of my upper eyelids was sagging like you would not believe. I freaked completely out, and applied DMAE. Within 3 hours, the eyelid was back to normal and never sagged again. Whew!!! So I fell in love with DMAE myself!

This is my very strong DMAE toner/serum recipe which I put on first and let sit for 15-20 minutes. It's silky, firming, and I love it. My little "scoop" is the end of a stirrer, the ones with a large end and a small end. In this recipe, the scoop is the small end. You can make this with any or all of the other ingredients. I use the acids because that way, it is somewhat exfoliating as well. But you can easily leave them out. This is a super strong serum/toner, DMAE -wise, as you can see (about 8% DMAE).

1 oz. distilled water
3 scoops L-Carnitine
3 scoops yogurt lactic acid, powdered - optional
1 crushed aspirin (salicylic acid)- optional
1/4 t. powdered hyaluronic acid
4 heaping scoops DMAE
1 capsule powdered Alpha Lipoic Acid mixed into few drops emu oil
1 scoop Niacinamide
1/8-1/4 tsp. silk amino acids liquid
1-2 drops: Germaben or Optiphen
Liquid Hyaluronic Acid - a squirt
Sodium PCA (NAPCA) - a squirt

Shake, apply after cleansing before moisturizing, while your face is still damp. You can apply your moisturizer (after 10 minutes) over this serum. Visible results within 10-20 minutes.

Kassy, I feel rather silly offering a recipe to you, of all people. But this is one that I think you will really like. Crossing fingers that you like it!
Laughing

~ JJ

free skin care · Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:17 pm

I have some DMAE. Maybe it's time to do something with it. Where did you get your double-ended scoop? Is it like a 1/2 teas - 1/4 teaspoon sort of measure?

free skin care · Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:46 pm

Just a reminder:

If you are buying your DMAE ingredient from SkinActives, you are buying DMAE bitartrate, which is neutralized. It contains approximately 37% DMAE and the recommended usage is 3% to 5% (13.5% DMAE bitartrate to make a 5% DMAE product).

There was also a study which suggested DMAE causes cell damage and impaired the ability of fibroblasts to divide. That study involved the application of 3% DMAE. Dr Todorov recommends that it may be prudent not to exceed the strength of 1% of DMAE and watch out for any adverse effects, such as skin irritation.

Additionally, DMAE is restricted in Canada and can not be sold or shipped to Canadian customers.

free skin care · Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:37 am

JJ, you embarass me, and I don't deserve such praise.. Embarassed

I love your recipe, although I'd be scared to death to use 8% DMAE because of exactly the reasons Lacy has posted... I do have the SAS product, and I'm experimenting with a 4% serum now. (I started with 1% and worked up when nothing good happened.. Laughing

) Your recipe looks quite kick arse to me. (Hopefully havana8 will see it and add it to the DIY sticky.) Just one question though, what is the total percent of HA in your serum?

Could you elaborate a bit more for Sis and me about the "scoop"... I have no clue what you're referring to. Also, how did you figure out how to measure it with your 'scoop'.

Lacy, the study that scared the hell out of me said that more than 3% DMAE caused the tightening effect on the skin, by causing the the cells to swell, but then it continued to swell until it ruptured.. (There's a thread here somewhere from quite a while ago, and I might have posted the link there.) Anyway that was the gist of it, and the best I can recall at 2:30 a.m... Laughing

Since that time I've read much more encouraging information on the plusses of DMAE, but I still feel safer (for now), keeping it around the 4ish% mark.

I really need to go to beddy bye.. Night all (again.. Very Happy

)

free skin care · Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:13 am

Kassy_A wrote:

......I also use Retin-A on my CP day, and apply the CP's an hour before.. (On that note, I also have conflicting info.. Sad

Nanci instructs to use it that way (CP 1st), but when I wrote an email to SB I got a huge instruction reply that said use the Retin-A 1st, then CP's......

Kassy,

Here is the comment from Dr. P.:

"Put on the Retin-A. Then the copper peptides. No wait is needed."

http://healthyskin.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5990018252/m/8150047283?r=7590030095#7590030095

I'll add CP into my evening regime (I am using Retin A & Taz) once I use up the Matrixyl 3000 serum.

At first, I thought that I'd use CP in the morning; however, after knowing that CP cannot be used with sunblock with zinc oxide; I rather use CP in the evening (though Dr. P & Nanci of NCN have different opinion towards Retin-A & CP)

I cross-posted the compatibility zinc oxide & CP in this thread:

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=507994#507994

As I'd like to add CP into my am regime; therefore, I have searched the Skin Biology forum to see if CP is compatible with sunblock containing Zinc Oxide; here is the reply of Dr. P"

"The problem with zinc oxide is that skin acids can cause the zinc oxide to release zinc ions. These can interfere with the actions of the copper ions. Some women tell me that zinc oxide sunscreens increase the size of their pores."

http://healthyskin.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7270023352/m/3470013985?r=8980033985#8980033985

Also, his comments of Zinc oxide & CP:

"The copper and zinc ions can react. So use them at a different time of the day."

"Copper and zinc compete for binding sites on proteins. Too much of one, drives out the the other."

http://healthyskin.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1990018252/m/3710080644?r=9150015744#9150015744

free skin care · Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:58 am

sister sweets wrote:

I have some DMAE. Maybe it's time to do something with it. Where did you get your double-ended scoop? Is it like a 1/2 teas - 1/4 teaspoon sort of measure?

Sis, it's just one of the little short "stirrers" (for lack of a better word - haven't had my coffee yet!) that you get from Skinactives when you order one of their products. I would say the equivalent is 1/4 teaspoon. ~ JJ Very Happy

free skin care · Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:14 am

Kassy_A wrote:

JJ, you embarass me, and I don't deserve such praise.. Embarassed

I love your recipe, although I'd be scared to death to use 8% DMAE because of exactly the reasons Lacy has posted... I do have the SAS product, and I'm experimenting with a 4% serum now. (I started with 1% and worked up when nothing good happened.. Laughing

) Your recipe looks quite kick arse to me. (Hopefully havana8 will see it and add it to the DIY sticky.) Just one question though, what is the total percent of HA in your serum?

Could you elaborate a bit more for Sis and me about the "scoop"... I have no clue what you're referring to. Also, how did you figure out how to measure it with your 'scoop'.

Lacy, the study that scared the hell out of me said that more than 3% DMAE caused the tightening effect on the skin, by causing the the cells to swell, but then it continued to swell until it ruptured.. (There's a thread here somewhere from quite a while ago, and I might have posted the link there.) Anyway that was the gist of it, and the best I can recall at 2:30 a.m... Laughing

Since that time I've read much more encouraging information on the plusses of DMAE, but I still feel safer (for now), keeping it around the 4ish% mark.

I really need to go to beddy bye.. Night all (again.. Very Happy

)

Kassy, I've never figured out the total HA in my serum, but to me, a squirt is about 1/4-1/2 tsp. Don't you love my "precise" directions? Laughing

I had that typed up for my own use, never dreaming I would post it anywhere ("scoops & squirts" - sheesh!) and I made it super strong for the period of time when I was using copper peptides heavily morning and night. For normal use, I would simply measure the serum and add the same amount in HA, NaPCA and silk amino acids. That would cut it to 4%, AND it might be prudent to cut it again (or completely redo the recipe). This serum of mine is a great once-in-a-while sort of product, like before a big meeting, dinner date, class reunion, etc., as it will hike your face right UP!!! Laughing

I most definitely agree with you and Lacy about the potential side effects of DMAE, and Lacy, I do not purchase my powdered DMAE from Skinactives, although I have a bottle of their 4% ready-made serum. However, I appreciate the info on their powdered DMAE product and now know not to purchase that from SAS. Thanks! ~ JJ

ETA: Yes, Kassy - you certainly DO deserve such praise! I've made numerous DIY potions from your wonderful, effective recipes. I have always appreciated your generous, kind spirit. Thanks again, you're a true gem!

free skin care · Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:58 am

jjbeacham wrote:

I most definitely agree with you and Lacy about the potential side effects of DMAE, and Lacy, I do not purchase my powdered DMAE from Skinactives, although I have a bottle of their 4% ready-made serum. However, I appreciate the info on their powdered DMAE product and now know not to purchase that from SAS. Thanks! ~ JJ

Sorry my mistake; the correct site was BulkActives, not SkinActives.

I did not mean to imply their DMAE was not a good product. When I said neutralized, I was referring to the pH of the product. This is what BulkActives says about DMAE:

'Pure' DMAE (amine ) is extremely alkaline and not suitable for DIY. Even if you have the anime form, it will still need to be neutralized to make it suitable for use on the skin. DMAE bitartrate, is already neutralized with tartaric acid.

Can you tell me where you buy your DMAE from JJ? Is it "pure" DMAE, or is it cut with something to lower the pH so that it suitable for DIY?

free skin care · Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:13 pm

Lacy53 wrote:

jjbeacham wrote:

I most definitely agree with you and Lacy about the potential side effects of DMAE, and Lacy, I do not purchase my powdered DMAE from Skinactives, although I have a bottle of their 4% ready-made serum. However, I appreciate the info on their powdered DMAE product and now know not to purchase that from SAS. Thanks! ~ JJ

Sorry my mistake; the correct site was BulkActives, not SkinActives.

I did not mean to imply their DMAE was not a good product. When I said neutralized, I was referring to the pH of the product. This is what BulkActives says about DMAE:

'Pure' DMAE (amine ) is extremely alkaline and not suitable for DIY. Even if you have the anime form, it will still need to be neutralized to make it suitable for use on the skin. DMAE bitartrate, is already neutralized with tartaric acid.

Can you tell me where you buy your DMAE from JJ? Is it "pure" DMAE, or is it cut with something to lower the pH so that it suitable for DIY?

Hi Lacy, I buy my DMAE powder at cellbone.com, and it's for DIY formulations. http://www.cellbone.com/DMAEpowder.htm . ~ JJ

free skin care · Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:14 pm

jjbeacham wrote:

Lacy53 wrote:

Sorry my mistake; the correct site was BulkActives, not SkinActives.

I did not mean to imply their DMAE was not a good product. When I said neutralized, I was referring to the pH of the product. This is what BulkActives says about DMAE:

'Pure' DMAE (amine ) is extremely alkaline and not suitable for DIY. Even if you have the anime form, it will still need to be neutralized to make it suitable for use on the skin. DMAE bitartrate, is already neutralized with tartaric acid.

Can you tell me where you buy your DMAE from JJ? Is it "pure" DMAE, or is it cut with something to lower the pH so that it suitable for DIY?

Hi Lacy, I buy my DMAE powder at cellbone.com, and it's for DIY formulations. http://www.cellbone.com/DMAEpowder.htm . ~ JJ

Assuming the information is correct from both Cellbone (this appears to be pure DMAE) and BulkActives (pure DMAE is extremely alkaline) which ingredient are you using to neutralize this ingredient in your recipe? I don't see anything that looks acidic.

Your recipe contains approximately 10% DMAE and about 2.5% HA. The recommended usage of those ingredients is 1%-3% and 0.1%-1.0% respectively. Additionally, I think your preservative is on the low side as well (but if you refrigerate the product and use it up quickly, that may not be an issue for you). It is difficult to analyze your recipe, because you measurements aren't exact; you approximate with the "little scoop". Personally I don't do DIY, but I do know how to do math! LOL

Any idea what the pH is of your final product?

free skin care · Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:47 pm

Lacy53 wrote:

jjbeacham wrote:

Lacy53 wrote:

Sorry my mistake; the correct site was BulkActives, not SkinActives.

I did not mean to imply their DMAE was not a good product. When I said neutralized, I was referring to the pH of the product. This is what BulkActives says about DMAE:

'Pure' DMAE (amine ) is extremely alkaline and not suitable for DIY. Even if you have the anime form, it will still need to be neutralized to make it suitable for use on the skin. DMAE bitartrate, is already neutralized with tartaric acid.

Can you tell me where you buy your DMAE from JJ? Is it "pure" DMAE, or is it cut with something to lower the pH so that it suitable for DIY?

Hi Lacy, I buy my DMAE powder at cellbone.com, and it's for DIY formulations. http://www.cellbone.com/DMAEpowder.htm . ~ JJ

Assuming the information is correct from both Cellbone (this appears to be pure DMAE) and BulkActives (pure DMAE is extremely alkaline) which ingredient are you using to neutralize this ingredient in your recipe? I don't see anything that looks acidic.

Your recipe contains approximately 10% DMAE and about 2.5% HA. The recommended usage of those ingredients is 1%-3% and 0.1%-1.0% respectively. Additionally, I think your preservative is on the low side as well (but if you refrigerate the product and use it up quickly, that may not be an issue for you). It is difficult to analyze your recipe, because you measurements aren't exact; you approximate with the "little scoop". Personally I don't do DIY, but I do know how to do math! LOL

Any idea what the pH is of your final product?

My DMAE is DMAE Bitartrate. My preservative is more than adequate and I refrigerate all DIY items. As previously stated, this is an occasional use, kick-ass serum. Very Happy

I am a grown woman and perfectly capable of doing my own math and making my own choices, thank you. My recipe is for my personal use (as I am certain you can tell from the use of the words "little scoop" and "squirt" which I am sure made you cringe), and anyone who wants to adapt it for their personal use to make a DIY serum for herself/himself is welcome to it. I trust Kassy to do her own math and adapt this for her individual use should she care to do so. Although I'm sure we both appreciate the "help," it's quite unnecessary. Thanks, though. ~ JJ

free skin care · Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:03 pm

Boy! This thread has been busy the last couple of days - even switching talk to DMAE(which works great for those CP 'uglies')

I have some DMAE too - a sample of SBs (really like) and a 3% one. I just use these for special occasions, as I got a little leary after reading that study.

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